US News Law School Rankings 2011 leaked


Erkan

Here's the full top 100 list:

1. Yale - 100
2. Harvard - 97
3. Stanford - 93
4. Columbia - 91
5. Chicago - 88
6. NYU - 87
7. UC Berkeley - 85
7. UPenn - 85
9. Michigan - 84
10. Virginia - 83
11. Duke - 82
11. Northwestern - 82
13. Cornell - 78
14. Georgetown - 77
15. UCLA - 76
15. Texas - 76
17. Vanderbilt - 75
18. USC - 71
19. Washington U-STL - 70
20. George Washington - 69
21. Illinois- UC - 68
22. Boston U - 67
22. Emory - 67
22. Minnesota-TC - 67
22. Notre Dame - 67
26. Iowa - 66
27. Indiana U-B - 65
28. Boston C - 63
28 William and Mary - 63
28. UC-Davis - 63
28. - Georgia - 63
28. UNC- Chapel Hill - 63
28. Wisconsin-M - 63
34. Fordham - 62
34. Ohio State - 62
34. UWashington - 62
34. Washington and Lee - 62
38. Arizona State - 60
38. Alabama - 60
38. Colorado-B - 60
38. Wake Forest - 60
42. Brigham Young - 59
42. George Mason - 59
42. Arizona - 59
42. UC-Hastings - 59
42. Utah - 59
47. Florida - 57
48. American - 55
48. Southern Methodist - 55
48. Tulane - 55
48. Maryland - 55
52. Pepperdine - 53
52. Yeshiva - 53
54. Florida State - 52
54. UConn - 52
56. Case Western - 51
56. Loyola - CA - 51
56. Cincinnati - 51
56. San Diego - 51
60. Georgia State - 50
60. Houston - 50
60. Miami - 50
60. Tennessee-Knoxville - 50
64. Baylor - 49
64. Lewis & Clark - 49
64. Kentucky - 49
67. Brooklyn - 48
67. Kansas - 48
67. New Mexico - 48
67. Pittsburgh - 48
67. Villanova - 48
72. Penn State - 47
72. Seton Hall - 47
72. St. John's - 47
72. Temple - 47
72. Hawai'i - 47
72. Oklahoma - 47
78. Loyola - Chicago - 46
78. UNLV - 46
80. Chicago-Kent - 45
80. LSU - 45
80. Rutgers-Camden - 45
80. Rutgers - Newark - 45
80. Denver - 45
80. Oregon - 45
86. Hofstra - 44
86. Indiana-Indianapolis - 44
86. Northeastern - 44
86. Seattle - 44
86. Syracuse - 44
86. Arkansas-Fayeteville - 44
86. Richmond - 44
93. Chapman - 43
93. Santa Clara - 43
93. Missouri - 43
93. Nebraska-Lincoln - 43
93. West Virginia - 43
98. Catholic - 42
98. DePaul - 42
98. San Fransisco - 42
98. Pacific-McGeorge - 42
98. William Mitchell - 42

http://i.imgur.com/jxGWV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5j5tz.jpg

Here's the full top 100 list:

1. Yale - 100
2. Harvard - 97
3. Stanford - 93
4. Columbia - 91
5. Chicago - 88
6. NYU - 87
7. UC Berkeley - 85
7. UPenn - 85
9. Michigan - 84
10. Virginia - 83
11. Duke - 82
11. Northwestern - 82
13. Cornell - 78
14. Georgetown - 77
15. UCLA - 76
15. Texas - 76
17. Vanderbilt - 75
18. USC - 71
19. Washington U-STL - 70
20. George Washington - 69
21. Illinois- UC - 68
22. Boston U - 67
22. Emory - 67
22. Minnesota-TC - 67
22. Notre Dame - 67
26. Iowa - 66
27. Indiana U-B - 65
28. Boston C - 63
28 William and Mary - 63
28. UC-Davis - 63
28. - Georgia - 63
28. UNC- Chapel Hill - 63
28. Wisconsin-M - 63
34. Fordham - 62
34. Ohio State - 62
34. UWashington - 62
34. Washington and Lee - 62
38. Arizona State - 60
38. Alabama - 60
38. Colorado-B - 60
38. Wake Forest - 60
42. Brigham Young - 59
42. George Mason - 59
42. Arizona - 59
42. UC-Hastings - 59
42. Utah - 59
47. Florida - 57
48. American - 55
48. Southern Methodist - 55
48. Tulane - 55
48. Maryland - 55
52. Pepperdine - 53
52. Yeshiva - 53
54. Florida State - 52
54. UConn - 52
56. Case Western - 51
56. Loyola - CA - 51
56. Cincinnati - 51
56. San Diego - 51
60. Georgia State - 50
60. Houston - 50
60. Miami - 50
60. Tennessee-Knoxville - 50
64. Baylor - 49
64. Lewis & Clark - 49
64. Kentucky - 49
67. Brooklyn - 48
67. Kansas - 48
67. New Mexico - 48
67. Pittsburgh - 48
67. Villanova - 48
72. Penn State - 47
72. Seton Hall - 47
72. St. John's - 47
72. Temple - 47
72. Hawai'i - 47
72. Oklahoma - 47
78. Loyola - Chicago - 46
78. UNLV - 46
80. Chicago-Kent - 45
80. LSU - 45
80. Rutgers-Camden - 45
80. Rutgers - Newark - 45
80. Denver - 45
80. Oregon - 45
86. Hofstra - 44
86. Indiana-Indianapolis - 44
86. Northeastern - 44
86. Seattle - 44
86. Syracuse - 44
86. Arkansas-Fayeteville - 44
86. Richmond - 44
93. Chapman - 43
93. Santa Clara - 43
93. Missouri - 43
93. Nebraska-Lincoln - 43
93. West Virginia - 43
98. Catholic - 42
98. DePaul - 42
98. San Fransisco - 42
98. Pacific-McGeorge - 42
98. William Mitchell - 42

http://i.imgur.com/jxGWV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5j5tz.jpg
quote

Here's the full top 100 list:

1. Yale - 100
2. Harvard - 97
3. Standford - 93
4. Columbia - 91
5. Chicago - 88
6. NYU - 87
7. UC Berkeley - 85
7. UPenn - 85
9. Michigan - 84
10. Virginia - 83
11. Duke - 82
11. Northwestern - 82
13. Cornell - 78
14. Georgetown - 77
15. UCLA - 76
15. Texas - 76
17. Vanderbilt - 75
18. USC - 71
19. Washington U-STL - 70
20. George Washington - 69
21. Illinois- UC - 68
22. Boston U - 67
22. Emory - 67
22. Minnesota-TC - 67
22. Notre Dame - 67
26. Iowa - 66
27. Indiana U-B - 65
28. Boston C - 63
28 William and Mary - 63
28. UC-Davis - 63
28. - Georgia - 63
28. UNC- Chapel Hill - 63
28. Wisconsin-M - 63
34. Fordham - 62
34. Ohio State - 62
34. UWashington - 62
34. Washington and Lee - 62
38. Arizona State - 60
38. Alabama - 60
38. Colorado-B - 60
38. Wake Forest - 60
42. Brigham Young - 59
42. George Mason - 59
42. Arizona - 59
42. UC-Hastings - 59
42. Utah - 59
47. Florida - 57
48. American - 55
48. Southern Methodist - 55
48. Tulane - 55
48. Maryland - 55
52. Pepperdine - 53
52. Yeshiva - 53
54. Florida State - 52
54. UConn - 52
56. Case Western - 51
56. Loyola - CA - 51
56. Cincinnati - 51
56. San Diego - 51
60. Georgia State - 50
60. Houston - 50
60. Miami - 50
60. Tennessee-Knoxville - 50
64. Baylor - 49
64. Lewis & Clark - 49
64. Kentucky - 49
67. Brooklyn - 48
67. Kansas - 48
67. New Mexico - 48
67. Pittsburgh - 48
67. Villanova - 48
72. Penn State - 47
72. Seton Hall - 47
72. St. John's - 47
72. Temple - 47
72. Hawai'i - 47
72. Oklahoma - 47
78. Loyola - Chicago - 46
78. UNLV - 46
80. Chicago-Kent - 45
80. LSU - 45
80. Rutgers-Camden - 45
80. Rutgers - Newark - 45
80. Denver - 45
80. Oregon - 45
86. Hofstra - 44
86. Indiana-Indianapolis - 44
86. Northeastern - 44
86. Seattle - 44
86. Syracuse - 44
86. Arkansas-Fayeteville - 44
86. Richmond - 44
93. Chapman - 43
93. Santa Clara - 43
93. Missouri - 43
93. Nebraska-Lincoln - 43
93. West Virginia - 43
98. Catholic - 42
98. DePaul - 42
98. San Fransisco - 42
98. Pacific-McGeorge - 42
98. William Mitchell - 42

http://i.imgur.com/jxGWV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5j5tz.jpg


This year seems so competitive.
What happened to GW? Take out part time program to raise the ranking..
Good for UIUC. Jump up to top 21. One step to Top 20.
Top 14 never change?
NYU falls out of top 5 is kind of strange. Of course U of Chicago is the best of the best without a doubt.

Wait to see all buddy's comment.

<blockquote>Here's the full top 100 list:

1. Yale - 100
2. Harvard - 97
3. Standford - 93
4. Columbia - 91
5. Chicago - 88
6. NYU - 87
7. UC Berkeley - 85
7. UPenn - 85
9. Michigan - 84
10. Virginia - 83
11. Duke - 82
11. Northwestern - 82
13. Cornell - 78
14. Georgetown - 77
15. UCLA - 76
15. Texas - 76
17. Vanderbilt - 75
18. USC - 71
19. Washington U-STL - 70
20. George Washington - 69
21. Illinois- UC - 68
22. Boston U - 67
22. Emory - 67
22. Minnesota-TC - 67
22. Notre Dame - 67
26. Iowa - 66
27. Indiana U-B - 65
28. Boston C - 63
28 William and Mary - 63
28. UC-Davis - 63
28. - Georgia - 63
28. UNC- Chapel Hill - 63
28. Wisconsin-M - 63
34. Fordham - 62
34. Ohio State - 62
34. UWashington - 62
34. Washington and Lee - 62
38. Arizona State - 60
38. Alabama - 60
38. Colorado-B - 60
38. Wake Forest - 60
42. Brigham Young - 59
42. George Mason - 59
42. Arizona - 59
42. UC-Hastings - 59
42. Utah - 59
47. Florida - 57
48. American - 55
48. Southern Methodist - 55
48. Tulane - 55
48. Maryland - 55
52. Pepperdine - 53
52. Yeshiva - 53
54. Florida State - 52
54. UConn - 52
56. Case Western - 51
56. Loyola - CA - 51
56. Cincinnati - 51
56. San Diego - 51
60. Georgia State - 50
60. Houston - 50
60. Miami - 50
60. Tennessee-Knoxville - 50
64. Baylor - 49
64. Lewis & Clark - 49
64. Kentucky - 49
67. Brooklyn - 48
67. Kansas - 48
67. New Mexico - 48
67. Pittsburgh - 48
67. Villanova - 48
72. Penn State - 47
72. Seton Hall - 47
72. St. John's - 47
72. Temple - 47
72. Hawai'i - 47
72. Oklahoma - 47
78. Loyola - Chicago - 46
78. UNLV - 46
80. Chicago-Kent - 45
80. LSU - 45
80. Rutgers-Camden - 45
80. Rutgers - Newark - 45
80. Denver - 45
80. Oregon - 45
86. Hofstra - 44
86. Indiana-Indianapolis - 44
86. Northeastern - 44
86. Seattle - 44
86. Syracuse - 44
86. Arkansas-Fayeteville - 44
86. Richmond - 44
93. Chapman - 43
93. Santa Clara - 43
93. Missouri - 43
93. Nebraska-Lincoln - 43
93. West Virginia - 43
98. Catholic - 42
98. DePaul - 42
98. San Fransisco - 42
98. Pacific-McGeorge - 42
98. William Mitchell - 42

http://i.imgur.com/jxGWV.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/5j5tz.jpg</blockquote>

This year seems so competitive.
What happened to GW? Take out part time program to raise the ranking..
Good for UIUC. Jump up to top 21. One step to Top 20.
Top 14 never change?
NYU falls out of top 5 is kind of strange. Of course U of Chicago is the best of the best without a doubt.

Wait to see all buddy's comment.
quote
MAB79

And look at the scores...CLS has over 90 now...I like to look at rankings...but still: they should never be the sacrosant factor in decision making (there are tons of rankings and all are different!)...particularly not for LL.M. programs...

And look at the scores...CLS has over 90 now...I like to look at rankings...but still: they should never be the sacrosant factor in decision making (there are tons of rankings and all are different!)...particularly not for LL.M. programs...
quote
laiguana

Berkeley now is on 7th place (( it's sad because I'm going to go there

Berkeley now is on 7th place (( it's sad because I'm going to go there
quote
MAB79

Berkeley now is on 7th place (( it's sad because I'm going to go there


Why should this be sad? They still have a great reputation and still have a very good LL.M. program? Further, the USNews ranking is rather nice to read than it should be that important in your decision making. But I can assure you that this one rank (used to be 6th, now is 7th) should not be that monumental that it makes you sad! Feel happy that you'll get into this school and look forward to it...

<blockquote>Berkeley now is on 7th place (( it's sad because I'm going to go there</blockquote>

Why should this be sad? They still have a great reputation and still have a very good LL.M. program? Further, the USNews ranking is rather nice to read than it should be that important in your decision making. But I can assure you that this one rank (used to be 6th, now is 7th) should not be that monumental that it makes you sad! Feel happy that you'll get into this school and look forward to it...
quote
laiguana

Thank you for your encouraging response .. )
So I also think rating isn't of such weighty importance.. And maybe I should go to study in the 14 place, which also accepted me...
And also from what factors these ratings are made?

Thank you for your encouraging response .. )
So I also think rating isn't of such weighty importance.. And maybe I should go to study in the 14 place, which also accepted me...
And also from what factors these ratings are made?
quote
post

Happy to see UofChicago at #5, as I will be attending there. Hopefully this will further motivate accepted Chicago students to confirm admission before the deadline which is tomorrow. Also, having studied in San Diego, happy to see USD jump 5 spots to #56.

Happy to see UofChicago at #5, as I will be attending there. Hopefully this will further motivate accepted Chicago students to confirm admission before the deadline which is tomorrow. Also, having studied in San Diego, happy to see USD jump 5 spots to #56.
quote
petersta

indeed, the latest ranking does reflect the factual strengths and weaknesses of the law schools better than the ranking of the year 2010. well... call me a ranking whore

indeed, the latest ranking does reflect the factual strengths and weaknesses of the law schools better than the ranking of the year 2010. well... call me a ranking whore
quote
Oldtimer

indeed, the latest ranking does reflect the factual strengths and weaknesses of the law schools better than the ranking of the year 2010. well... call me a ranking whore


Don't be such a ranking whore!!!
(sorry, I could not resist)

I would advice reading Leiters' ranking reports explanation (http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/2003differences_usnews.shtml), according to whom more than half of the elements in the US News rankings can be played with by the Law Schools.

And the incentive for cheating is huge as schools know that legions of ranking whores will base their decisions solely on those rankings. A self fulfilling prophecy then normally follows...

It will be interesting to see whether those are the real rankings and, if so, the details to find out what changed from one year to the other.

Update: apparently it is all a hoax: http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2010/04/some-readers-claim-the-new-us-news-law-school-rankings-have-been-leaked.html

Update 2: woops! it was not a hoax!

<blockquote>indeed, the latest ranking does reflect the factual strengths and weaknesses of the law schools better than the ranking of the year 2010. well... call me a ranking whore </blockquote>

Don't be such a ranking whore!!!
(sorry, I could not resist)

I would advice reading Leiters' ranking reports explanation (http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/2003differences_usnews.shtml), according to whom more than half of the elements in the US News rankings can be played with by the Law Schools.

And the incentive for cheating is huge as schools know that legions of ranking whores will base their decisions solely on those rankings. A self fulfilling prophecy then normally follows...

It will be interesting to see whether those are the real rankings and, if so, the details to find out what changed from one year to the other.

Update: apparently it is all a hoax: http://leiterlawschool.typepad.com/leiter/2010/04/some-readers-claim-the-new-us-news-law-school-rankings-have-been-leaked.html

Update 2: woops! it was not a hoax!
quote
MAB79

Hmm, I wonder why some schools in the back do not make their way to the top 15 or even the top 4 if it is that easy to influence the ranking...

Don't get me wrong: I don't think that the US News ranking is more objective than any other ranking. But I doubt that all the other rankings are better than the US News ranking.

And one thing is for sure: If you get into a top 15 school, you get a great education...

Hmm, I wonder why some schools in the back do not make their way to the top 15 or even the top 4 if it is that easy to influence the ranking...

Don't get me wrong: I don't think that the US News ranking is more objective than any other ranking. But I doubt that all the other rankings are better than the US News ranking.

And one thing is for sure: If you get into a top 15 school, you get a great education...
quote
Oldtimer

The claim by Leitner is that it is possible to "manipulate" more than half of the data used for the ranking s(not all the parts), not that it is "easy" to manipulate them.

The claim by Leitner is that it is possible to "manipulate" more than half of the data used for the ranking s(not all the parts), not that it is "easy" to manipulate them.
quote
MAB79

The claim by Leitner is that it is possible to "manipulate" more than half of the data used for the ranking s(not all the parts), not that it is "easy" to manipulate them.


Yes, but wouldn't this somehow imply that the Unis regularly ranked within ranks 1 to 15 are master of manipulation, while the less successful end up on the worse ranks?

I doubt that schools like Harvard, Yale, even like UCLA etc. are that strong in manipulation. Rather I think that it could be possible to manipulate the rankings but still the top 15 are the top 15!

<blockquote>The claim by Leitner is that it is possible to "manipulate" more than half of the data used for the ranking s(not all the parts), not that it is "easy" to manipulate them.</blockquote>

Yes, but wouldn't this somehow imply that the Unis regularly ranked within ranks 1 to 15 are master of manipulation, while the less successful end up on the worse ranks?

I doubt that schools like Harvard, Yale, even like UCLA etc. are that strong in manipulation. Rather I think that it could be possible to manipulate the rankings but still the top 15 are the top 15!
quote
Oldtimer

I would think the manipulation argument is only part of the story. And whether the schools do in fact do this is, admittedly, only a matter of speculation. For schools, going down the rankings is as bad as a chef losing a Michelin star, and one could imagine they will do everything they can to prevent this from happening.

In my view, these rankings have a "self-fulfilling prophecy" effect. Why do most people want to go to Harvard and Yale? Judging from the myriad of comments in this website, the answer is not necessarily "because I will get the best education" or "because they have the best professors in my field of interest" or "because I like that part of the country". No. The typical answer given is "beacause they are at the top of the ranking", which is a way of saying "I want to prove that I am part of the best and brightest".

So, yes, most students want to go there because the schools are considered to be at the top, and they are at the top because most students want to go there. For a given number of places, a higher number of applications will translate in a higher number of rejections, which will helps in preserving their place in the rankings for the next year. Professors, like students, also have an ego and they like their name associated with the top schools, so they probably also look at the rankings (besides the pay check which may in some cases tilt the balance). Law firms also want to be perceived as hiring the brightest, which of course means looking mainly at candidates from top name schools, which Harvard and Yale are unable to provide in numerical terms. It's a self-reinforcing circle.

Thus, in an environment where real life decisions are made based on US News rankings, the "reality" will probably end up reinforcing the idea conveyed by the ranking. The ranking is no more simply a measurement, but a cause and effect of what is being measured.

Some will probably use this to say, "but see! you are contradicting yourself! You are making the perfect argument for selecting a school solely based on the US News ranking!!"

I don't think so. That would only be true to the extent that the only thing that matters to you is being measured by the ranking. What happens if your interests and/or needs are not part of the methodology? You may then end up choosing the wrong school for you. I ask: what's the point of being to Harvard or Yale if you are not interested in one of the areas in which they are strong? Are you willing to have a nice title to hang in the wall, but a so-so education in what you want to do for the rest of your life? I am fully aware that this is a completely stupid question for many, but for me it is not.

Good luck!

I would think the manipulation argument is only part of the story. And whether the schools do in fact do this is, admittedly, only a matter of speculation. For schools, going down the rankings is as bad as a chef losing a Michelin star, and one could imagine they will do everything they can to prevent this from happening.

In my view, these rankings have a "self-fulfilling prophecy" effect. Why do most people want to go to Harvard and Yale? Judging from the myriad of comments in this website, the answer is not necessarily "because I will get the best education" or "because they have the best professors in my field of interest" or "because I like that part of the country". No. The typical answer given is "beacause they are at the top of the ranking", which is a way of saying "I want to prove that I am part of the best and brightest".

So, yes, most students want to go there because the schools are considered to be at the top, and they are at the top because most students want to go there. For a given number of places, a higher number of applications will translate in a higher number of rejections, which will helps in preserving their place in the rankings for the next year. Professors, like students, also have an ego and they like their name associated with the top schools, so they probably also look at the rankings (besides the pay check which may in some cases tilt the balance). Law firms also want to be perceived as hiring the brightest, which of course means looking mainly at candidates from top name schools, which Harvard and Yale are unable to provide in numerical terms. It's a self-reinforcing circle.

Thus, in an environment where real life decisions are made based on US News rankings, the "reality" will probably end up reinforcing the idea conveyed by the ranking. The ranking is no more simply a measurement, but a cause and effect of what is being measured.

Some will probably use this to say, "but see! you are contradicting yourself! You are making the perfect argument for selecting a school solely based on the US News ranking!!"

I don't think so. That would only be true to the extent that the only thing that matters to you is being measured by the ranking. What happens if your interests and/or needs are not part of the methodology? You may then end up choosing the wrong school for you. I ask: what's the point of being to Harvard or Yale if you are not interested in one of the areas in which they are strong? Are you willing to have a nice title to hang in the wall, but a so-so education in what you want to do for the rest of your life? I am fully aware that this is a completely stupid question for many, but for me it is not.

Good luck!
quote
MAB79

That indeed is a great answer and I absolutely agree with you.

That indeed is a great answer and I absolutely agree with you.
quote

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