What would you choose if you got accepted into these two program?

I believe the Kellogg program is much more extensive. It really has a full course load. The Wharton program includes only 3 courses. I'm not sure how much Wharton experience you can get from that. The Kellogg program obviously costs more, so you pay for what you get. Though similarly ranked in the business circle, Wharton is undoubtedly the quintessential business school. Just not sure what 3 courses can do for you though.

Thanks.

Of course LL.M/Kellogg at NWU is excellent. You can not compare it with Wharton which is just a certificate. The credits earned at Wharton are not added for NYU Bar Exam. Wharton is wasting of time. Kellogg is full program and very good from job point of view.

Will the LLM/Kellogg graduate have better chance at gaining a place in Kellogg's MBA after graduation? Do you know of any person who went to Kellogg 's MBA after graduating from LLM/Kellogg? Thanks

An LLM/K graduate told me that the credits earned can be carried forward to the MBA at NW if he decides on business school later.

As admitted to both LLM/Kellogg and UPenn LLM (my acceptance to Wharton Cert. Program is pending), I've done some research and would like to share the result so far, hoping to aid your decision.

1. Degree
Both LLM/Kellogg (LLMK) and Wharton Business and Law Certificate Program (Wharton Program) are not dual degree programs. In other words, upon graduation, you will have earned a Law degree and a certificate from the B school, not an MBA. In such respect, there is no difference between the two programs; except the certificate from Kellogg will read "Certificate in Management" and that from Wharton will read "Wharton Business and Law Certificate."

2. Course Description
While the course at LLMK seems more comprehensive, which includes core MBA courses, some claim that the courses available for the Wharton Program matriculants are basically 'left overs' from the Wharton MBA programs. In other words, only the elective courses will be available, not the core MBA courses such as Corporate Finance, Financial Accounting or Marketing. However, I believe this is only true to the JD students at Penn Law seeking to obtain a certificate from Wharton. The "Wharton Business and Law Certificate" Program is specifically designed for LL.M students, the courses of which include core MBA credits. Taking classes with LLMs not MBAs may be a downside but as long as I can learn from Wharton faculty members, if not "star" professors, I personally do not have a problem with this. Furthermore, although the course requirement for the Wharton Program (3 courses at Wharton School) may seem insignificant, note that you need to earn certain credits related to business at Penn Law, such as Corporation or Securities Regulation towards the Wharton Business AND Law Certificate, which makes a lot of sense to me.

3. Transfer policy to JD/MBA or MBA.
I've asked NU about this via email. They said that NU Law does not have transfer policies from LLM to JD nor do they encourage such transfer. I believe this may also be true to transfer from LLMK to Kellogg. Nevertheless, Kellogg has a unique One Yr MBA Program, which requires the applicants to have earned credits in core MBA courses from a certified institution, such as colleges or community colleges. (Check out their Web-site) Hence, the credits earned through the LLMK may be used to meet such requirement. (I would like to believe that the Wharton Program curriculum would suffice to meet such prerequisite but I would need more research.) However, LLMK graduates would be required to apply to Kellogg with GMAT scores just as the same as any regular applicant. There may be an unrevealed upside in the reviewing process by the Admissions Committee for LLMK graduates who apply to Kellogg but then again this is pure assumption and speculation. A recommendation from a current Kellogg faculty member, if you can manage to secure one, may play a major plus role for admission to Kellogg.

4. Alumni
I do NOT know if LLMK graduates are able to enjoy the Kellogg network. However, I DO know that graduates of the Wharton Business and Law Certificate Program, which is among the Wharton Program(s) for Working Professionals, are considered as both UPenn alumni and Wharton School Alumni. For the Wharton Program matriculant of Penn Law LL.M., he/she will be considered as alumni of University of Pennsylvania, Penn Law and Wharton School. You may refer to the following, which I found in the FAQ list at the WPWP website.

"Are WPWP graduates recognized as University of Pennsylvania alumni?

==> Students who earn their certificates from the Wharton Program for Working Professionals will be alumni of the University of Pennsylvania and the Wharton School.

What Penn Resources are available to WPWP Students?

==> As a matriculated part-time student, WPWP students can take advantage of an extensive list of resources. Access to Penn's Lippincott Library, Weingarten Learning Resource Center, and Knowledge@Wharton are a few of the many opportunities accessible to students enrolled in the program. In addition, access to study rooms, recreation facilities, and student organizations, including WPWP's business fraternity, Pi Delta Epsilon, is also available."

5. Conclusion
Personally, I dont think you can go wrong by choosing either one of them. Both Wharton and Kellogg are well recognized schools. Same goes for NU Law and Penn Law. I would probably choose to go to Penn Law because most of the key directors at my firm are Penn Law or Wharton graduates. Furthermore, I intend to work in the B2B industry rather than the B2C industry as an investment advisor or to jump to an IB and since Whartons strength is in Finance whereas that of Kellogg is in Marketing, a taste of studies in finance at Wharton would definitely boost my career perspectives, or so I hope to believe.

This is extremely comprehensive. Thank you so much for your input. Thanks

This is extremely comprehensive. Thank you so much for your input. Thanks

Hi bCool: Will all the due respect, I believe that the only business that you could learn with those Business Certificates is the business that universities made by collect $10,000 for a diploma.

Wharton certificate courses could be taking by anyone that pays the required amount of money. In fact, courses are given by a special division of Wharton, and your classmates will be not MBA or undergraduate Wharton students, but foreigners that are not business students (this is all steted in their website). I am pretty sure that is the same in other law schools that offers certificates.
About become Wharton Alumni, I will ask you a question: If someone took a couple of courses in your law school (courses not designed for lawyers, but for other professionals), would you consider him as an alumni? Personally I would think that they want to profiteer from my law school prestige. I think that Wharton real students (MBAs and undergraduates) feel the same.

Dont misunderstand me: Both Penn and Northwestern are great law schools, but I dont think that certificate worth it.
I have read some of your post and you seem like an exceptional applicant. Maybe you should take (if you have the money and the time) and executive MBA after your LLM. I think that many prestigious universities offer 1 year MBA.

How many places does Wharton offer for their certificate in Law and Business program?

Natassja/ Point well taken. I believe many here would agree with your opinion, while others may not. The intent of my post was to provide fact based information to facilitate the decision making process of some LL.M. matriculants. I will not discuss some points you mentioned, as much as I think they are well addressed, for it is my firm belief that the choice of a program is a very personal endeavor. I may have revealed some points that may be considered as personal. Please disregard those for I have several other reasons for possibly attending a certain program.
As to the achievement of certificates, I heard that top schools are open to cross-disciplinary education; they allow students to take limited number of courses (1~2) at other grad schools. Nevertheless, I am unsure and would have to verify if Wharton or Kellogg, in particular, grant certificates for LL.M. students without being a LLMK student or a Wharton Business and Law student. Thank you.

TTG/ So far I was lucky enough to get in touch with one of my high school/college buddy, also a former judge and a Wharton Business and Law Certificate graduate. According to him, the class size was about 5~10 among the total LL.M. herd at Penn Law. This could be misconstrued as if the program were extremely competitive. However, according to him, it could be just simply because the program may not have been as attractive to other LL.M. students for the reasons Natassja has explicitly pointed out and maybe more. My buddy was sponsored by the government and I will be by my company so I intend to make the most of whatever opportunity I come across during that 1 short year.

I have read some of your post and you seem like an exceptional applicant. Maybe you should take (if you have the money and the time) and executive MBA after your LLM. I think that many prestigious universities offer 1 year MBA.

Thank you bCool and natassja for your insights into this matter. I will have another 10-15 days to decide which school I will go to (as dateline for LLM/K acceptant is 20 March and Upenn is 1 April). Meanwhile, my decision is leaning toward LLM/Wharton program (I am looking forward to see bCool in class). I may consider doing a MBA after the completion of my LLM. As I have completed an economic/finance degree in my undergraduate days, I am particularly interested in 1 year MBA program offered by various B-Schools. In addition, I am 26 this year, I think I can afford another 1-2 years of my life doing a MBA. I am not too sure this will be the best path for me to take or just decline the LLM offers and apply the following year for MBA.

May I ask which country you are from? Have you been accepted to the Wharton Program already? (I sent you a message with my personal email on it)
I think we pretty much share similar view points as to which program to choose. For me, the prospect of studying at a top law school in the US and a possible NY, DC or California bar within 1 short year were very attractive, even considering the 'close to zero' percent job placements for international LL.Ms in the US these days. I guess it all comes down to making 'investment decisions' of your own.

Hey everyone. This topic is amazingly interesting and insightful thanks to your bright contributions! I'm an LLM applicant from France.

Up until now, I have been:

- admitted to NYU in its LLM in Trade Regulation program (with a possibility to enroll in its "Advance Professional Certificate in Law and Business", APCLB)
- admitted to LLM/K at Northwestern
- admitted to Georgetown
- Deferred (from early application) and then waitlisted at U Penn
- Deferred and no news till now at Columbia

I know that I'll go to Columbia if ever I get admitted. But my question is the following: what to choose between LLM/K and NYU?

The LLM/K seems very interesting and confidential (only 20-30 students each year), but does it mean that it is better than NYU.

On the "business certificates" subjet, here is a thought: I know that ALL accepted LLMs at NYU are offered admission to the APCLB. There are over 400 LLMs each year at NYU. Yet only a few (I believe between 10-15) enroll in the APCLB.

As there is no additional selection to the APCLB (selection to the LLM program itself excepted), the small number of APCLB students can be explained by i) space limitation, ii) financial constraints (additional $14.000) or iii) unattrativeness of the program.

My feeling is that most students consider that the APCLB program is not worth the additional tuition. So my guess is that, indeed, the first to benefit from those certificates are the law schools themeselves through their bank account...

But that's just a thought...

Hey~~ I just got admitted to the Wharton Business and Law Certificate Program.

I've surrendered my admittion to LLM/Kellogg, which was a very difficult decision.

There was very limited amount of information on the LLM/WBLC, compared with the LLM/Kellogg. However, I was lucky enough to get in touch with a WBLC graduate and a PennLaw student currently enrolled in the WBLC program, and it seems very very attractive, at least to me.

Hey Congrats,

I am still waiting for my acceptance into WBLC program. If I dont get admitted to WBLC program I will revert my acceptance to LLM/Kellogg. I am not sure whether WBLC will accept me. I just have over 3 years of experience.

bCool Could you kindly inform us when they sent you the email regarding admission into WBLC?

Anyway congrats bCool

Hey Congrats,

I am still waiting for my acceptance into WBLC program. If I dont get admitted to WBLC program I will revert my acceptance to LLM/Kellogg. I am not sure whether WBLC will accept me. I just have over 3 years of experience.

bCool Could you kindly inform us when they sent you the email regarding admission into WBLC?

Anyway congrats bCool

Thank you so much for your information bCool. You are most helpful.