LLM/Kellogg and LLM/Wharton


nicemanin

I recently got admission in Wharton Business and law certificate course ( only a certificate but with 8,500$ , its worth )... I got an e-mail... well, it is not an MBA, but it will make us a part of Wharton community....... Any idea of how many seats are there for LLM student? i heard that 60% will get admission.

I recently got admission in Wharton Business and law certificate course ( only a certificate but with 8,500$ , its worth )... I got an e-mail... well, it is not an MBA, but it will make us a part of Wharton community....... Any idea of how many seats are there for LLM student? i heard that 60% will get admission.
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Alawyer

Congrats.. nicemanin..

Congrats.. nicemanin..
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Belgium09

Hello,
I also applied to the Wharton certificate, but a little bit late.
So I am not sure to get an answer before April 1st.
Could you say me from who you received admission e-mail and to whom I may adres any question in this regard.

Thanks a lot for your help.

Hello,
I also applied to the Wharton certificate, but a little bit late.
So I am not sure to get an answer before April 1st.
Could you say me from who you received admission e-mail and to whom I may adres any question in this regard.

Thanks a lot for your help.
quote
nicktracy

LLM/K is only for those who are already a professional in law and just want to do a one year course related to Business related aspect... For those who really dont know anything about US laws.. it is the worst program... even LLM general course is far better ... and NYU stern give you a advance certificate course at the same cost and you may also do your LLM just after that.. and again you have chance to study 6 credit at stern business school... you are not bound like LLMK to take your course... you may choose your course in NYU and Columbia... LLMK is again the best program for those who are expert in law.. not in business..

LLM/K is only for those who are already a professional in law and just want to do a one year course related to Business related aspect... For those who really dont know anything about US laws.. it is the worst program... even LLM general course is far better ... and NYU stern give you a advance certificate course at the same cost and you may also do your LLM just after that.. and again you have chance to study 6 credit at stern business school... you are not bound like LLMK to take your course... you may choose your course in NYU and Columbia... LLMK is again the best program for those who are expert in law.. not in business..
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Wizard

@nicktracy - what do you mean by "LLMK is again the best program for those who are expert in law.. not in business"???

@nicktracy - what do you mean by "LLMK is again the best program for those who are expert in law.. not in business"???
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nicktracy

I mean expert in US laws or having a substantial work experience ( legal ) in USA.

I mean expert in US laws or having a substantial work experience ( legal ) in USA.
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nicktracy

LLMK is the most expensive one year program on the earth. its about $ 80,000 just for LLM + courses at Kellogg. On the other hand, a MBA ( 2yr.) from USA from top 25 B-School will cost you around $80,000-1,20,000. The fee of the most expensive law school on earth is $67,000.. that is Columbia and NYU. In these law school you may take free courses from Business schools upto 6 credit ( out of 100 B-school courses ). And you may also take their Business certificate and additional courses but you have to pay more ( but not that much as one have to pay in NWU)... However most significant part is ranking of law program also include the ranking of Business school courses provided with law school.Because in USA we have JD+MBA joint degree program.. and people prefer the ranking of law school than the ranking of B-school... the best source is USA news... if you think that the B-School matters, than the law school ranking will be in the B-school ranking order... So it is not the kellogg, Wharton and columbia... its LLM because you are not doing an MBA... we are not going to shop in a market where we need to buy the best tea as you do take tea only ... but become mad about coffee because of its exclusive brand and something is offered free... Thats why most of the law school offer the courses and business school to attract the law student.. but somehow Yale/Harvard and Stanford are the best law school... not LLMK and Upenn+W ....

LLMK is the most expensive one year program on the earth. its about $ 80,000 just for LLM + courses at Kellogg. On the other hand, a MBA ( 2yr.) from USA from top 25 B-School will cost you around $80,000-1,20,000. The fee of the most expensive law school on earth is $67,000.. that is Columbia and NYU. In these law school you may take free courses from Business schools upto 6 credit ( out of 100 B-school courses ). And you may also take their Business certificate and additional courses but you have to pay more ( but not that much as one have to pay in NWU)... However most significant part is ranking of law program also include the ranking of Business school courses provided with law school.Because in USA we have JD+MBA joint degree program.. and people prefer the ranking of law school than the ranking of B-school... the best source is USA news... if you think that the B-School matters, than the law school ranking will be in the B-school ranking order... So it is not the kellogg, Wharton and columbia... its LLM because you are not doing an MBA... we are not going to shop in a market where we need to buy the best tea as you do take tea only ... but become mad about coffee because of its exclusive brand and something is offered free... Thats why most of the law school offer the courses and business school to attract the law student.. but somehow Yale/Harvard and Stanford are the best law school... not LLMK and Upenn+W ....
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hybrid

Agree with nicktracy's words. LLM/K is too expensive, and it's not an MBA program after all. Although students in such program can learn a lot about business, it is not worthy from the perspective of "cost-and-benefit-analysis."

Agree with nicktracy's words. LLM/K is too expensive, and it's not an MBA program after all. Although students in such program can learn a lot about business, it is not worthy from the perspective of "cost-and-benefit-analysis."
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Wizard

I don`t agree. In other countries the value of a certificate from a top 5 B-School does matter a lot.

From a US job perspective, LLM students will only get one if they have already make connections within US employers (as long as you graduate from a top 10 school you should be fine).

The main question is, NW LLM/K or UPenn - Wharton?

I don`t agree. In other countries the value of a certificate from a top 5 B-School does matter a lot.

From a US job perspective, LLM students will only get one if they have already make connections within US employers (as long as you graduate from a top 10 school you should be fine).

The main question is, NW LLM/K or UPenn - Wharton?

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jsd

Part of the confusion arises because many people holding a first degree in law want to dabble in management. That is not a good approach - ideally after a first degree in law, the path forward, at least in the formative years should be within the realm of law. Not only does a switch over to an MBA require developing a whole new skill set, it also entails competition with a whole set of people who also want an MBA yet do not have the baggage of law to unlearn. It is also a waste of the first law degree (at least in part).

Part of the confusion arises because many people holding a first degree in law want to dabble in management. That is not a good approach - ideally after a first degree in law, the path forward, at least in the formative years should be within the realm of law. Not only does a switch over to an MBA require developing a whole new skill set, it also entails competition with a whole set of people who also want an MBA yet do not have the baggage of law to unlearn. It is also a waste of the first law degree (at least in part).

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Wizard

Some people interact with business and law in a manner that give them more or the same experience as b undergrad.

Moreover, lot of applicants hold also a b degree or a master in finance or economics.

You should not apply the same formula to all people.

Penn is better ranked and ivy, so probably thats why people end up going there

Some people interact with business and law in a manner that give them more or the same experience as b undergrad.

Moreover, lot of applicants hold also a b degree or a master in finance or economics.

You should not apply the same formula to all people.

Penn is better ranked and ivy, so probably thats why people end up going there
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nicktracy

Bachelor degree in Economics from the respective contries will not give anyone edge over what we have in US.. may be that is the reason people come here for the Masters.. it is totally a different story here in USA... That is why here you will learn the subjects called Corporate Finance in law school.. Well, even Upenn will give you a certificate... but at the same time they will give you only few choices from B-School to choose your subjects.. and believe me no CEO or MBA student will like to opt those subjects... So even Upenn is not good for those who look for some Business related courses... in fact NYU and columbia are the best in that .. see the link and you will know.. http://www.law.nyu.edu/recordsandregistration/crossregistration/sternschoolofbusinesspreferentialcourses/index.htm

So generally every law school in USA try to give courses to law school student.. specially to those who can pay more... That is why we have LLMK....Make sure why do you like to do such courses from a B-Schools... Most people dont know about the legal system in USA.... so they do come for LLM... but ask to an American JD/LLB student.. who want to opt joint JD+MBA course.. he will certainly look at the Law school ranking.. not the B-School ranking... I know it because i am studying here from a long... Well in USA, you will see that a Law school student take courses in B-school, but you will find hardly any B-school student who want to take courses in law school.. reason international LLM students are cash cows.. they even fund the B-school.. as they pay for $70,000 for one year LLM degree than on average MBA student pay just $55,000 per year ( this include all expense in USA for an year)..

Bachelor degree in Economics from the respective contries will not give anyone edge over what we have in US.. may be that is the reason people come here for the Masters.. it is totally a different story here in USA... That is why here you will learn the subjects called Corporate Finance in law school.. Well, even Upenn will give you a certificate... but at the same time they will give you only few choices from B-School to choose your subjects.. and believe me no CEO or MBA student will like to opt those subjects... So even Upenn is not good for those who look for some Business related courses... in fact NYU and columbia are the best in that .. see the link and you will know.. http://www.law.nyu.edu/recordsandregistration/crossregistration/sternschoolofbusinesspreferentialcourses/index.htm

So generally every law school in USA try to give courses to law school student.. specially to those who can pay more... That is why we have LLMK....Make sure why do you like to do such courses from a B-Schools... Most people dont know about the legal system in USA.... so they do come for LLM... but ask to an American JD/LLB student.. who want to opt joint JD+MBA course.. he will certainly look at the Law school ranking.. not the B-School ranking... I know it because i am studying here from a long... Well in USA, you will see that a Law school student take courses in B-school, but you will find hardly any B-school student who want to take courses in law school.. reason international LLM students are cash cows.. they even fund the B-school.. as they pay for $70,000 for one year LLM degree than on average MBA student pay just $55,000 per year ( this include all expense in USA for an year)..
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nicktracy

I would like to end up in New York after I get my JD/MBA, but also want to go to a school with great academics and faculty and where I can enjoy myself. I am somewhat Ivy-biased, but really want the best career prospects from my program more than anything. I think this is a decent ranking, but just wondering what people think about it. Feedback is appreciated! (Note: The rankings listed below are from US News for both Law and Business - there are better Business School rankings, but these didn't factor into my decision A TON!)

1. Harvard University (Boston, MA) Law (2), Business (1)
2. Columbia University (New York, NY) Law (5), Business (9)
3. Stanford University (Stanford, CA) Law (2), Business (2)
4. New York University (New York, NY) Law (4), Business (10)
5. Yale University (New Haven, CT) Law (1), Business (14)
6. The University of Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, PA) Law (6), Business (3)
7. The University of Chicago (Chicago, IL) Law (6), Business (5)
8. The University of California at Berkeley (Berkeley, CA) Law (8), Business (8)
9. Cornell University (Ithaca, NY) Law (13), Business (14)
10. The University of Virginia (Charlottesville, VA) Law (10), Business (12)

I would like to end up in New York after I get my JD/MBA, but also want to go to a school with great academics and faculty and where I can enjoy myself. I am somewhat Ivy-biased, but really want the best career prospects from my program more than anything. I think this is a decent ranking, but just wondering what people think about it. Feedback is appreciated! (Note: The rankings listed below are from US News for both Law and Business - there are better Business School rankings, but these didn't factor into my decision A TON!)

1. Harvard University (Boston, MA) – Law (2), Business (1)
2. Columbia University (New York, NY) – Law (5), Business (9)
3. Stanford University (Stanford, CA) – Law (2), Business (2)
4. New York University (New York, NY) – Law (4), Business (10)
5. Yale University (New Haven, CT) – Law (1), Business (14)
6. The University of Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, PA) – Law (6), Business (3)
7. The University of Chicago (Chicago, IL) – Law (6), Business (5)
8. The University of California at Berkeley (Berkeley, CA) – Law (8), Business (8)
9. Cornell University (Ithaca, NY) – Law (13), Business (14)
10. The University of Virginia (Charlottesville, VA) – Law (10), Business (12)
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jsd

Some people interact with business and law in a manner that give them more or the same experience as b undergrad.

Moreover, lot of applicants hold also a b degree or a master in finance or economics.



This is misleading. Choice of law school schould be dictated by its competence in law alone. If you have interest in pursuing management, no amount of LLM + Wharton or LLM + Kellogg will be comparable with an MBA from Kellogg or Wharton. The reasons these courses with 'extra' credits is offered is purely financial - as someone crudely put it - LLM students are cash cows! Universities like NW (understandably) attempt to capitalise on the brand value of their B-Schools in order to sell their LLM courses and yes, to the unexperienced, it is indeed a temptation. In the real world though, this cuts very little ice with employers. If you want to join a firm or be an in-house counsel, it is the perception of legal excellence in your law school that matters. For a position in management, your B-School history is important. Nobody who holds these LLM/K /W degrees will be considered for a core managment / operations position.

Now to the next point. As far as 'interaction of business and law' is concerned - it occurs in all legal careers, be it as a trial attorney or a general counsel. A desire to improve appreciation of business is well and good, but it should not be at the cost of quality of legal education. Only by being a good lawyer first can you appreciate business later. If you want to decide between LLM/K /W and other schools offering an LLM, choose the one that gives you the best legal education.

<blockquote>Some people interact with business and law in a manner that give them more or the same experience as b undergrad.

Moreover, lot of applicants hold also a b degree or a master in finance or economics.

</blockquote>

This is misleading. Choice of law school schould be dictated by its competence in law alone. If you have interest in pursuing management, no amount of LLM + Wharton or LLM + Kellogg will be comparable with an MBA from Kellogg or Wharton. The reasons these courses with 'extra' credits is offered is purely financial - as someone crudely put it - LLM students are cash cows! Universities like NW (understandably) attempt to capitalise on the brand value of their B-Schools in order to sell their LLM courses and yes, to the unexperienced, it is indeed a temptation. In the real world though, this cuts very little ice with employers. If you want to join a firm or be an in-house counsel, it is the perception of legal excellence in your law school that matters. For a position in management, your B-School history is important. Nobody who holds these LLM/K /W degrees will be considered for a core managment / operations position.

Now to the next point. As far as 'interaction of business and law' is concerned - it occurs in all legal careers, be it as a trial attorney or a general counsel. A desire to improve appreciation of business is well and good, but it should not be at the cost of quality of legal education. Only by being a good lawyer first can you appreciate business later. If you want to decide between LLM/K /W and other schools offering an LLM, choose the one that gives you the best legal education.

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Wizard

It might be misleading for you only..

It might be misleading for you only..
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Hey, I've got admitted to UPenn/ Wharton and LLM/K - going for the UPenn program finally because of its reputation, and since LLM/ K is supremely expensive and does not offer any sort of financial aid whatsoever

Hey, I've got admitted to UPenn/ Wharton and LLM/K - going for the UPenn program finally because of its reputation, and since LLM/ K is supremely expensive and does not offer any sort of financial aid whatsoever
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My personal point of view:

- Both Upenn and Northwestern are great law schools.
- Both Kellogg and Wharton are great B-Schools.
- Both LLM´s are good enough to check the requirement in your resume (and perhaps get a 1 year internship in NY before returning to your country)
- The difference is that at Kellogg you will actually learn the fundamentals of business education: you will be treated like an MBA by professors and students (actually you will study with the most competitive MBA´s: the ones that are doing the Part time MBA in downtown Chicago).
- You will be attending exactly the same classes as the MBA´s 1year students (that means you will take the hard courses of the MBA: finance, statistics, math methods, business strategy, etc). Trust me: we are not prepared for this, especially if your teacher is a Top Japanese academic from MIT or Stanford and your classmates are 35 years old and have been working in management positions for years,
- Also, if you are not good enough, you will get a D and nobody will care that you are just an LLM!!
- Wharton Certificate is just for saying that you went to Wharton. On the other hand, Kellogg certificate will push you to another level and makes you have a completely different experience.
- Trust me, it worth the extra tuition if you really want to learn some business.
- BTW: after LLMK I got a position in a Fortune 500 that was designed for an experienced MBA. Results have been awesome so far since I have a special qualification: I am a lawyer.

My personal point of view:

- Both Upenn and Northwestern are great law schools.
- Both Kellogg and Wharton are great B-Schools.
- Both LLM´s are good enough to check the requirement in your resume (and perhaps get a 1 year internship in NY before returning to your country)
- The difference is that at Kellogg you will actually learn the fundamentals of business education: you will be treated like an MBA by professors and students (actually you will study with the most competitive MBA´s: the ones that are doing the Part time MBA in downtown Chicago).
- You will be attending exactly the same classes as the MBA´s 1year students (that means you will take the hard courses of the MBA: finance, statistics, math methods, business strategy, etc). Trust me: we are not prepared for this, especially if your teacher is a Top Japanese academic from MIT or Stanford and your classmates are 35 years old and have been working in management positions for years,
- Also, if you are not good enough, you will get a D and nobody will care that you are just an LLM!!
- Wharton Certificate is just for saying that you went to Wharton. On the other hand, Kellogg certificate will push you to another level and makes you have a completely different experience.
- Trust me, it worth the extra tuition if you really want to learn some business.
- BTW: after LLMK I got a position in a Fortune 500 that was designed for an experienced MBA. Results have been awesome so far since I have a special qualification: I am a lawyer.
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dmannell

I got UPENN and Wharton: Should I go fot it ?
Is it worth the extra 10K?

Is the LLM at UPENN worth the investment?

Many thanks your thoughts

I got UPENN and Wharton: Should I go fot it ?
Is it worth the extra 10K?

Is the LLM at UPENN worth the investment?

Many thanks your thoughts
quote

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