For what it is worth, I don't think doing a "lower ranking" LLM is worth it for the business school. Legal employers are looking for lawyers not business grads and since research shows people usually hire people who are like themselves, unless your employer went to business school, any business school connections will probably not register.

By the way, George W Bush is a Harvard MBA, isn´t he?

No "yuepingisms" from my side... But I thought that you would cheer for the Clintons... After all, Bill is your neighbor, isn´t he?

Well... I stay aloof from politics but some people here would support Obama just because he's running against Hilary.

Hey, Josepidal,

I am also in hls and would like to clarify a few facts here, regarding the job market:

I agree that the market is better than it was a few years back, but very many of our classmates still have no jobs.

These include those taking 'in demand subjects' such as corporate law, securities law and capital markets regulations and have good grades. I know a few like that.

I think many factors come into play in this job hunt thing, especially if one already has an llm from an overseas university, the region of the world one comes from, etc. I know many people from continents and subcontinents viewed as having nothing to offer from a capitalistic viewpoint,not being in demand from legal firms.Same case for last year.Sometimes the hammer also falls on people from eastern europe. The lucky ones this year are latinos,chinese,japanese,germans,and indians mostly.

I was just speaking with April the other day (in the job hunt) and I can tell you for a fact that your statistics are highly questionable. Long on conjecture and hype. Short on facts.

It is possible to get a job in the US for llms but it takes hard hard work. Even for llms from the top 4, including harvard.You should also try international jobs like worldbank but those tend to be elitist and demand stellar resumes,grades,work experiences and ideologies.

Goodluck to all

Forgive me if I have said this already (I have a feeling that I have made this point somewhere else) but whether you will succeed in getting a job will largely depend on what area you want to go into. For example, if you want to get a litigation job it is extremely difficult for you to even get an interview at a NY firm if you are an LLM. I had almost three years litigation experience before I came to the US and it was tough to get a job in that department whereas I had zero corporate experience and got a job in project finance at Skadden pretty easily. Ridiculous. Especially since I come from a common law country - they would still rather take an American JD with no experience for litigation. Skadden told me that they never ever interview LLMs for litigation no matter how qualified they are.

Flygirl,

Agreed. And my point is that even the so called in demand corporate areas are quite hard to break into for llms (foreigners in america), even from so called top tier schools, for the reasons I discussed above.Not impossible,but very difficult.

This is to counter impressions given otherwise in postings on this thread that in some so called tier 1 school,where I also am an llm,(almost)everyone has a job/has not had a very difficult time sourcing one.

Luck to all~

Yes, I am definitely agreeing with you.

I think the visa issue also makes some firms very reluctant to hire LLMs.

That being said, you only need one job so even if you just get a couple of interviews you could be lucky.

My experience with Skadden was a total fluke. They initially didn't even give me an interview and then obviously had a lot of their summers turn them down and found themselves short-staffed so called me up. Very weird.

A previous poster mentioned that it is hard for LLMs because we/they compete directly with the JDs. In fact, I think it is worse than that - the firms usually only turn to LLMs when they find out which of their JDs are returning from the summer class so in that respect we are after the JDs in the pecking order. If we were to compete directly with the JDs I actually think it would be easier to get a job since most of us have more work experience.

Oh yeah,

I totally agree with you as well,Flygirl.Most llms have, one, solid experience in competitive legal areas,two,competitive streak,ambition and desire to excel (which is what brings us here in the first place,usually leaving good jobs overseas) and third,know what it means to be an employee in the maddeningly busy field of law.We have no illusions, we know things on the ground are very different from the theories in law school(many of which sound sexy and grand-but when one gets down to work,you realise alot of it at associate level is mundane,dreary,detail-oriented,low-level and stressful,not to mention the hours,plus you get all the blame if anything at detail level goes wrong, but you suck it up and move on!).

I think if the law firm partners/hirers were honest, they would say we make better associates/employees,but they prefer their own so we come as second best,when the jds have made their picks and there are gaps to be filled.

Good luck with Skadden,Flygirl.That is really an A1 firm and I hope all goes well with you.Show 'em what we llms are made of!

Cheers,all.Good luck with classes and jobsearches.

I was just speaking with April the other day (in the job hunt) and I can tell you for a fact that your statistics are highly questionable. Long on conjecture and hype. Short on facts.

let's not draw blood here.my main point was to underscore the point made previously and to clarify your misleading impression that so called tier1 law school llms find it easy to get jobs in america.

my point is,that is far from the truth.many llms have a very very tough time getting jobs,despite taking all career guide advise,and using networks.even harvard has very many desperately-seeking llms without jobs.

can you dispute that josepidal?

good luck to all~

No one's drawing blood, we haven't quite gone that far even with yueping. It's just a little hard to respond to you when you don't go into any of the specific points I made.

I understand what you mean, that it's attractive to talk on a "bottom line" basis. However, that's not as easy if you understand the factors that go into this.

First, I didn't deny that all LLMs, not very many, have a very, very tough time. Everything flygirl said is of course true, we're JD substitutes and the question is if your overpriced Harvard diploma is worth more than a JD diploma from a lower-ranked school. Nevertheless, we do have evidence that in many cases, people do say yes to that.

Second, well, I'm afraid some people do not take the career office's advice. Like I told you, I've seen people do the exact opposite. On the other hand, I've seen someone doing what was recommended, and getting callbacks in Fall with no preliminary interviews (that is, fly direct to New York for final round). Someone with no work experience and not from China, India, Germany, etc.

Again, I don't want to discuss any of this in public, which is why I said I'd love to talk in private, as I have with other classmates.

Third, no one said much about using networks. As LLMs, it's presumed that we generally have no New York networks to speak of. I know a number of people who've found jobs, and very few were facilitated by home country networks.

Finally, I said it's just mid-March.

I think we're talking with somewhat different presumptions. However, I do have reasons for making mine, including seeing people with all the disadvantages (no work experience, insignificant country, etc.) do well in their job hunt.

:)

I guess its different for everyone then.

regards

No one's drawing blood, we haven't quite gone that far even with yueping

Nothing that hasn't endeared you to us. It's just convenient to use "yueping" as shorthand to refer to a particularly colorful mode of posting.

I have been readin this threads for quite long now and have to thnk Josepidal, Ivan and all the rest, some tips were illuminating, some others confusin but also useful.
Anyways here lies my situation. I am from Argentina (american resident though)I just got my degree (am only 23) and have very few experience (say 11/2 years). I ve been admited to UCLA recently to do my LLM but also have an offer to intern in Dubai for a team of lawyers. As I ve read statistics sayin different things I wonder what the chances to get a Job are. and when u speak about "getting a job", what kind of job r we talkin about? Or better how much money r we talkin about?
Anyways I hope some of u can clarify my doubts as I dont want to throw away my lifetime savings to find out that studying in the US did not get me a well paid job.

Ok, here´s my personal opinion: if I were you, I would go to Dubai. You would gather some work experience that would be really valuable in the future - and it would not jeopardize your chances of admission into an LLM program in the US. Besides, you are very young, and a couple of years of work experience before pursuing an LLM would do you no harm.
When I talked about getting a job, I was referring to jobs in NY Law Firms (salaries of 160K)/ Big 4s (salary of 85-90K).

Yes, as Ivan says, everyone refers to the "Big Law" jobs in New York with salaries of 160K (could get higher, some say). Smaller firms may not have the resources to handle your immigration needs.

However, you should give more information on your career plans, your Dubai offer, and your past experience.

However, you should give more information on your career plans, your Dubai offer, and your past experience.