I personally dont know any LLM graduate who is an English native speaker.

Even if you come from a very small program, this is highly improbably.

Regarding California, I imagine you're still better off with NYU. Sure, you have a good regional school with regional ties, but they still love the "national" "top tier" East Coast schools over there.

Look at a place like Irell, for example. Their summer JD class is composed of people from UCLA, Stanford, Boalt Hall and other regional favorites, plus Harvard, Yale, Columbia, etc. people.

Not sure to understand the notion of regional school with regional ties

Is UCLA a "regional" school? What about NYU? Is it also a "good regional school with regional ties"? And Yale? A "good regional school with regional ties" (in New Haven)? A "national" shool?

By the way, California has by far the largest population and the largest Gross State Product in the US. If California were an independent nation, it would be one of the tenth largest economies in the world (between 6th and 10th, depending on the source).

Believe it or not, there is life outside the East Coast

Do you think it's possible to find jobs in california? I heard that there are even higher barriers for LLMs there.

Not sure to understand the notion of regional school with regional ties

Is UCLA a "regional" school? What about NYU? Is it also a "good regional school with regional ties"? And Yale? A "good regional school with regional ties" (in New Haven)? A "national" shool?

By the way, California has by far the largest population and the largest Gross State Product in the US. If California were an independent nation, it would be one of the tenth largest economies in the world (between 6th and 10th, depending on the source).

Believe it or not, there is life outside the East Coast

Hi this is an Italian applicant who got admittance to NYU and UCLA and still is waiting for Columbia and Berkeley.

I am a lawyer registered at the Italian bar and I am already working since 3 years in a top tier italian law firm.

I went throught your posts (in particular those of Ivan2006) and I have to say that frankly speaking if your goal is to stay in the U.S.A. and you are european you should not pick NYU.

Maybe it's better to look at new LLM markets, like the californian one (I've heard that in 2007 there will be the first Californian Job Fair at UCLA).

If you want to choose NYU because NY is simply heaven, well go ahead but I think that in the market of today you have to find simply the new thing. NYU with a class of more than 400 people represents simply what you don't want to choose if your goal is to stay in the USA.

That's why I am considering UCLA more than NYU (no matter the rankings, expect the first 5 universities they are not useful at all).

I may be wrong about this, but I think that this is the way the market goes.

Any comments?

ciao to everybody

Hi All, I am new to this forum. I am an Indian LL.B graduate, currently working at one of the top corproate law firms in India. I have been admitted to Georgetown, Upenn and NYU LL.M programs. Waiting to hear from Columbia. As of now I am very confused between Upenn and NYU. Though I am more inclined to choose NYU (which is offering me the USD 10,000 waiver+research assistant position), I have been told that employability after LL.M will depend solely on my grades in class and NYU grading system lags behind as compared to other top LL.M programs. For example, NYU grades its LL.M students along with the J.Ds which apparently makes it harder to attain good grades and secondly, the highest grade at NYU is A as compared to A+ in the other schools and therefore I have been advised to consider Upenn over NYU. I would really appreciate if any one can throw some light on to this information and please advice me what to do, especially if anyone is currently in the NYU/Upenn LL.M program. Also to clarify, though I will apply to jobs in the USA(NY), but it is not my ultimate destination and the chances are higher that I may seek employment outside of USA, may be London or Singapore, though I may not return to my home country. In this scenario, how would this grading system at NYU deter my chances of getting employment or will the NYU name be a huge factor outside of USA to help me seek employment? Please advice.

What you heard is true. Grades are crucial, although the fact that you come from a "hot" country like India may be a plus when you seek employment. And it is true that here at NYU there are no separate curves between JDs and LLMs. However, be aware that if you look for a job here a potential employer may ask you whether your curve is different from the JD´s. It happened to me and happened to some people I know. At that time, I could answer "no" without gasping.
Regarding jobs overseas, I believe foreign employers do not care too much about your LLM grades (unless they are really bad - e.g. C or D). They may be more interested in your pre-LLM experience.

Hi. I've been accepted to the Securities and Financial Regualtions program at Georgetown (LLM). I have a law degree from a university in Montreal and work for one of the largest CDN firms. I also have 3 years work experience in the financial industry and an extensive securities background.

What do you think my chances would be of locating employment in the states after an LLM, and also, how would I find out what state bars I could "Sit" withouth having a common law degree and only an LLM?

Thanks,

JZ

For example, NYU grades its LL.M students along with the J.Ds which apparently makes it harder to attain good grades and secondly, the highest grade at NYU is A as compared to A+ in the other schools and therefore I have been advised to consider Upenn over NYU.

Don't misquote Ivan. He said firms don't care as much about grades if you're looking at a foreign office.

Thanks Ivan, yueping and josepidal. It is a relief to know that the grading system is not very different between Upenn and NYU. Though it may seem very silly, I was kind of concerned about this factor especially since I will have had only 1 year experience prior to LL.M.

In that case, I guess I feel more inclined to opt for NYU especially since I have been offered some amount of financial aid+NY city+internationally, NYU holds a more attractive name. HOwever in favour of Upenn i do want the opportunity to take classes at Wharton....But then if I do take NYU I am contemplating to enroll myself for the advanced certificate program at Stern which is also pretty cool.

If anyone has a contrary opinion please feel free to express.
Thanks.

Don't misquote Ivan. He said firms don't care as much about grades if you're looking at a foreign office.

Ivan2006 thanks for you reply, first of all.

I see that you are arguing in favor of NYU and this is fair. I respect your ideas and I know that most of the people agree with you.

I just explained my ideas, maybe I may be wrong, maybe not.

What I referred was just what I heard from one managing partner of one of the top tier US law firm in the Usa, but I understand this will not change your view at all.

Anyway, I am lucky because I already received an offer to work in a top tier american law firm (based in N.Y. what a coincidence!) after my LLM in Ucla, so I will take the opportunity to enjoy the californian sun. Good look!

note the good look.....

good luck!

Hi. I've been accepted to the Securities and Financial Regualtions program at Georgetown (LLM). I have a law degree from a university in Montreal and work for one of the largest CDN firms. I also have 3 years work experience in the financial industry and an extensive securities background.

What do you think my chances would be of locating employment in the states after an LLM, and also, how would I find out what state bars I could "Sit" withouth having a common law degree and only an LLM?

Thanks,

JZ

Caplaz, it´s great that you have already secured a job even before enrolling in an LLM program. I assume that since you worked at a law firm in Italy (maybe an American firm based therein or a local one with strong ties with the US), your contacts helped you to secure this position, without regard of the law school you attend. However, I don´t think it is everybody´s case, and I am still unconvinced that trying the "new" thing is a feasible solution when an applicant is not in a win-win situation like yours´. My point has always been that you should aim at enrolling at the best school in your speciality, that you should try be close to your target law market (for a foreigner, it could be DC, NY or CA) and that it is better if the law school that you choose has a good network of alumni in your home country. You may have a different opinion on this. And I guess the others would find it helpful if you ellaborated a little bit more on your views about that issue.

Ivan, you are right contacts were important (as they always are) but please consider that my goal was just to stay in the USA a couple of years and then come back to Europe (london or Italy again).

I am not saying that you are wrong, but simply that I think we are all (me and you in particolar) missing something here.

My point is that to be really different you should make an LLM in China (living in Shangai now represents exactly what was living in N Y in 1907 or in Rome in 107 d.c.!!!!!). That would really make you different from the others and a go to guy for law firms that will fight for you.

In NY there are simply too many students who want the same thing that you are looking for. This managing partner told me once that during the job fair at a certian stage he couldn't remember the face of all the students he had seen in front of him!

LLMS now are of course important and in general a good thing to have in your CV but at the end it all depends at what you are looking for as a job.

Do you want to be hired in a company or in an international organization? well the LLM is certainly a good thing for you.

Do you want to become partner in a european law firm and do you think that an LLM would give you the possibility to meet new clients? Sorry I don't think an LLM will speed up this process. Contacts in NY are not so easy to get, becuase NY is simply the place to be for all people in the world.

That's why I think considering L.A.(and not Berkeley) can be a factor for contacts (even if I am afraid it's becoming more and more a japanese market). Maybe you can find clients that need someone able to understand Italian (in my case of course) and that simply are looking into californian market becuase NY is just too full....may sounds strange i understand it, but believe there is life in the west cost!

Re the alumni and network, well let me say that at least in Italy this is really something that does not work. I know a lot of Upenn and NYU former LLMs who go out to enjoy (and this is always good), but sure they did not use this network to find jobs, or similar things....

and finally, let me say it... the real open markets are those in Asia, like India or China....man believe me I went there for a transaction and I could not believe it...they are bulding entire blocks of houses in just one week! That's the place to make business at 100%!!!!

but at the end reality is that LLM is also a great experience of life, and honestly speaking, I can't wait to have again a life like a student!

I hope the above proves to be useful, in any case good luck to all of you!

Ivan, you are right contacts were important (as they always are) but please consider that my goal was just to stay in the USA a couple of years and then come back to Europe (london or Italy again).

My point is that to be really different you should make an LLM in China (living in Shangai now represents exactly what was living in N Y in 1907 or in Rome in 107 d.c.!!!!!). That would really make you different from the others and a go to guy for law firms that will fight for you.

Thanks Ivan, yueping and josepidal. It is a relief to know that the grading system is not very different between Upenn and NYU. Though it may seem very silly, I was kind of concerned about this factor especially since I will have had only 1 year experience prior to LL.M.

In that case, I guess I feel more inclined to opt for NYU especially since I have been offered some amount of financial aid+NY city+internationally, NYU holds a more attractive name. HOwever in favour of Upenn i do want the opportunity to take classes at Wharton....But then if I do take NYU I am contemplating to enroll myself for the advanced certificate program at Stern which is also pretty cool.

and what about Europeans with LLM education or work experience in China?

answer: almost near to 0.... (in italy 0 for sure!)