Hi everyone,

I just won a scholarship, and I need some opinions.

If you had to nominate five law schools for a scholarship, which would you select? There must be a maximum of two from one country. I am avoiding US law schools due to the cost of tuition (average of US$40,000), so I would appreciate the best law schools in the world, excluding US law schools.

I would go for:
1. Oxford - UK
2. Cambridge - UK
3. McGill - Canada
4. UBC - Canada
5. Trinity College, Dublin - Ireland

#1 and # 2 are obvious, but would you agree with #3, #4 and #5?

Thank you.

Oh Canada! I'm not sure either McGill or UBC deserve to be on this list (especially ahead of the University of Toronto, which truly is one of the world's top law schools)... unless of course we're talking lifestyle, in which case both schools would fare pretty well.

For what it's worth, you may want to consider this ranking, although this is not law-specific:

http://www.topuniversities.com/worlduniversityrankings/results/2007/overall_rankings/top_100_universities/

It depends on your interest. For example in Banking and Finance Law, ILF (Frankfurt) is one of the best; or in Mineral Law could be Dundee University (Scotland).

It´s difficult to rank, but in general terms and reputation, I would say (excluding american and british schools):

1.- Toronto (Canada)
2.- Mc Gill (Canada)
3.- Instituto de Empresa (Spain)
4.- Institute for Law and Finance - ILF (Germany)
5.- Leiden University (The Netherlands)

That´s my personnal point of view.

Good luck

For Canada, I would consider the Osgoode Hall Law School.

For UK, I would consider the University of Edinburgh too other than Oxbridge. No point applying to the others. Just my opinion.

Not Dublin. I would rather consider one of the rated European Law Schools.

As a general rule, by selecting the national law School, you cannot go wrong.

Osgoode Hall shouldn't be allowed anywhere near this list. Many wouldn't count it in the top 5 in Canada, let alone the world (ex US). Large, impersonal and utterly lacking in resources for its LLM students (I'm speaking of their academic LLM - they also offer a "professional" LLM). Also suffers from occupying the single most godforsaken piece of real estate in Canada... and that's no small honour.

agreed.. osgoode hall is solely running on its name.. churning out heaps of grads each year..

If we are talking *purely* about the best law schools for LLMs here, I would be inclined to place UCL, KCL and LSE ahead of Oxbridge because they offer far greater speciality for the legal practitioner. However, if we are talking law schools in general then Oxbridge must come top for the UK.

As for Canada, I would say McGill or UT. Although I do know two lawyers who studied for the Osgoode 'Professional LLM' and found it very good. Generally, I wouldn't promote Canadian uni's as a great place for LLM programs. I'm yet to see a really impressive one. This is illustrated by the fact many Canadian lawyers opt to study for their LLMs at US or British law schools.

I never heard of Trinity College, Dublin being great for LLM programs either.

Other non-US top law schools that spring to my mind:
- Leiden
- Leuven
- Bologna


As someone else has said above, how you rank law schools for LLMs ultimately depends on what speciality you are looking at studying.

Ya, I gotta disagree with Cowboy on this one. UofT is one of the world's top law schools, period. It also has a world class LLM program. Not only does the Faculty boast numerous internationally recognized scholars, a great academic atmosphere and active/diverse student body, but the way the LLM program is run is completely first class.

As an aside Cowboy, the stats would suggest that most candidates from most countries undertake their LLMs in countries other than those from which they originate. Also, and while I have no stats on this one, I think you will find Canadians who go to the U.S./U.K. are going to Oxbridge, Harvard, etc. As a result, I would suggest your assertion that the migration of Canadian LLM students abroad illustrates the deficiency of domestic LLM programs is highly suspect.

I think UofT is a great school... but you'll still find me at Oxford come the fall.

Cheers.

Paddy, UT is a great law school - undeniably up there with other top international schools, and I'm certainly not bashing it. In fact, I was considering applying for the UT JD only the other year.

However, I am not convinced that LLM programs in Canada are world-leading, particularly as they are bereft of certain specialities. Ironically, it was a UT professor that confirmed my opinion, as well as the opinions of number of fellow Canadian classmates who I had the pleasure to study with when the UoL intercollegiate LLM was still alive and well.

Indeed, Canadians are found studying in Oxbridge, but if you venture to London or 'up north' during you time in England, you'll also find Canadians frequenting the UoL colleges and red-brick universities in the UK, such as, Manchester.

Good luck at Oxford.

Edit: on another note, I would interested to hear more about Osgoode's reputation (or lack of, that is talked about above). I have a good friend who considering the part-time LLM while studying for bar exams.

Hey Cowboy,

Osgoode Hall occupies a strange position. Its faculty is good, its students are good and - at least in Canada - it provides its students with good career prospects. Its general problem in my view is twofold. First, as I already mentioned, it is a singularly oppressive place to study, physically and geographically speaking. Anyone who has ever gotten off that bus after a 75 minute commute from civilization only to find themselves in a concrete wasteland in the middle of a Canadian winter knows what I mean. Second, it is inferior to UofT (Toronto's other law school) in almost every conceivable category. As a result, subject to acceptance of course, I just can't see why anyone would choose Osgoode over UofT for either the JD or LLM.

As far as the LLM goes, I think its appropriate to distinguish between the academic (i.e. general) and "professional" LLM. The academic LLM falls into the category of lacklustre Canadian programs which, I agree (other than UofT), are generally not world-leading. The professional LLM, at least from speaking with my friends and colleagues who have enrolled in it, is perhaps something of a different story. First, its supposedly very practice-oriented (which, depending on your perspective can be a very good thing or a very bad thing). In an event, if one's goal is to further specialize in a specific area, it may prove useful. Second, its apparently not bad from a networking perspective.

Cheers.

The LL.M program at the College of Europe, Bruges is conspicuously absent from the above discussion. This is likely the best LL.M for European law anywhere. I'd think it belongs in the list of the top 5 non-US programs

I share this view. I chose the College of Europe over Oxford [and Chicago]. And the choice was not money driven.

I think the College of Europe has the best programme in general EU Law and EU Competition Law.

Out of curiosity, why did you pick the College of Europe over Chicago? I'm sure Bruges is the place to specialize in the particulars of EC competition law doctrine, but I'd have thought to learn advanced antitrust & economics, Chicago would be the spot. Obviously, technical econ drives US more than European law, though I'd assume as time goes on Europe will evolve closer to the law & econ model.

Did you enjoy Bruges?

Thanks for this info, Paddy. Certainly, the Osgoode Hall portrayed on the uni website doesn't exactly reflect the reality of its Keele Campus location. In terms of design, it reminds me a lot of British 1960s 'glass plate' universities (aka concrete jungles). I was told by one friend that the 'Professional LLM' is taught at a different location in rented offices somewhere in downtown Toronto, rather than the normal campus location (I don't know if this is still the case). Looking at the website now, it seems they are marketing it as a distance learning course also.

Hey Cowboy,

Osgoode Hall occupies a strange position. Its faculty is good, its students are good and - at least in Canada - it provides its students with good career prospects. Its general problem in my view is twofold. First, as I already mentioned, it is a singularly oppressive place to study, physically and geographically speaking. Anyone who has ever gotten off that bus after a 75 minute commute from civilization only to find themselves in a concrete wasteland in the middle of a Canadian winter knows what I mean. Second, it is inferior to UofT (Toronto's other law school) in almost every conceivable category. As a result, subject to acceptance of course, I just can't see why anyone would choose Osgoode over UofT for either the JD or LLM.

As far as the LLM goes, I think its appropriate to distinguish between the academic (i.e. general) and "professional" LLM. The academic LLM falls into the category of lacklustre Canadian programs which, I agree (other than UofT), are generally not world-leading. The professional LLM, at least from speaking with my friends and colleagues who have enrolled in it, is perhaps something of a different story. First, its supposedly very practice-oriented (which, depending on your perspective can be a very good thing or a very bad thing). In an event, if one's goal is to further specialize in a specific area, it may prove useful. Second, its apparently not bad from a networking perspective.

Cheers.

Well I still have to start in Bruges. But my choice took me about two months of research and surveys. I think it is a pretty well made choice. Regarding my preference over Chicago, I think it is better to know first EC competition law, and almost for sure in the future I will think again of Chicago, but only after having gained a fairly broad experience. Learning EC Competition law in the US looked like a nonsense to me.

I think that makes a lot of sense. In fact, I know someone who did an LL.M at Bruges and then 2 or 3 years later in Chicago. That would certainly seem like the right order. In any event, if you're interested in learning the actual doctrine of EC competition law (as opposed to the underlying econ), then you're right to focus on Europe.

Good luck at the College of Europe - I'm sure you'll get a lot out of it!

What about the University of the Witwatersrand, Johannesburg? The law school has a great reputation for LLM's. agree/disagree?

I would definitely have the university of sydney and the university of melbourne on there. They are both highly reputable for law. Also, universities such as the national university of singapore and university of hong kong have very renowned law schools.

You may want to consider this ranking. It's not specified for law, but for social science which consumes law:

http://www.timeshighereducation.co.uk/hybrid.asp?typeCode=150