USA LLM after European Law LLB.


GeorgeN11
Hello everyone, hope you are all well. I would like to ask you for your opinion on my so called. "Education Plan." First of all i think it is important to share my ambition. I hope to work in America in the future, New York to be exact, as a foreign lawyer. I hope to be more specifically involved in Corporate law and Taxation law. I am a British Citizen and will soon be attending the European Law School in Maastricht, Netherlands for 3 years LLB. I then hope to attend the European and International Law LLM in Maastricht. I have known of a few people go from here to America and that it what i hope to do. After i receive my LLM i hope to attend an Ivy League school such as Harvard, Yale, New York ect to receive an American LLM. Will this make me targetable by US firms in New York. After i receive an American LLM do i then go on to do the NY Bar. There are people who have gone down this route and are now working for NY firms but i would just really appreciate some up to date advice. It this an achievable plan and is this a good "route". Is it reasonable to go from a University such as the European Law School Maastricht to an Ivy League School for an LLM. How high is possible. Harvard? NYU? If you could get give me some guidance i would really appreciate. I know everyone here is extremely knowledgable in this sector and if you could share some knowledge i would be really grateful. Just to add i can speak fluent English and i am currently learning Dutch.
Hello everyone, hope you are all well. I would like to ask you for your opinion on my so called. "Education Plan." First of all i think it is important to share my ambition. I hope to work in America in the future, New York to be exact, as a foreign lawyer. I hope to be more specifically involved in Corporate law and Taxation law. I am a British Citizen and will soon be attending the European Law School in Maastricht, Netherlands for 3 years LLB. I then hope to attend the European and International Law LLM in Maastricht. I have known of a few people go from here to America and that it what i hope to do. After i receive my LLM i hope to attend an Ivy League school such as Harvard, Yale, New York ect to receive an American LLM. Will this make me targetable by US firms in New York. After i receive an American LLM do i then go on to do the NY Bar. There are people who have gone down this route and are now working for NY firms but i would just really appreciate some up to date advice. It this an achievable plan and is this a good "route". Is it reasonable to go from a University such as the European Law School Maastricht to an Ivy League School for an LLM. How high is possible. Harvard? NYU? If you could get give me some guidance i would really appreciate. I know everyone here is extremely knowledgable in this sector and if you could share some knowledge i would be really grateful. Just to add i can speak fluent English and i am currently learning Dutch.
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GeorgeN11
Thankyou for your reply, very helpful indeed. Thats good news in regards to University ranking. I am not worried about that. Maastricht is often considered to be one of the top 50 Law Schools in the world, at least top 100. Please correct me if i am wrong, but i cannot see any Indian universities in the top 100 and if your friends got into a top 5 US LLM that is amazing. Here is my source if you are interested.

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011/subject-rankings/social-sciences/law

As for doing a JJD straight away, it is an option, but there are things which are turning me away. Would i not have to do a degree in a social science and then go on to Law School. I thought that is how it works in the US. That is a lot longer than the 4 years i hope to spend at The European Law School to gain a LLB and LLM in European and International Law. LLM in European and International Taxation Law.

Also, there is the cost to consider. I am not from America and therefor the tuition fee's will be very high for me at a T14 Law School. I always thought that if i had a lot of experience in European and International Law then that would make me a lot more marketable as a lawyer. I know people that work in New York as European Tax Lawyers. There are a lot of firms in the Netherlands which hire European Law Students from The European Law School and transfer them to America. If not in the Netherlands, than in Brussels.

Once again thankyou very much for your help.
Thankyou for your reply, very helpful indeed. Thats good news in regards to University ranking. I am not worried about that. Maastricht is often considered to be one of the top 50 Law Schools in the world, at least top 100. Please correct me if i am wrong, but i cannot see any Indian universities in the top 100 and if your friends got into a top 5 US LLM that is amazing. Here is my source if you are interested.

http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings/world-university-rankings/2011/subject-rankings/social-sciences/law

As for doing a JJD straight away, it is an option, but there are things which are turning me away. Would i not have to do a degree in a social science and then go on to Law School. I thought that is how it works in the US. That is a lot longer than the 4 years i hope to spend at The European Law School to gain a LLB and LLM in European and International Law. LLM in European and International Taxation Law.

Also, there is the cost to consider. I am not from America and therefor the tuition fee's will be very high for me at a T14 Law School. I always thought that if i had a lot of experience in European and International Law then that would make me a lot more marketable as a lawyer. I know people that work in New York as European Tax Lawyers. There are a lot of firms in the Netherlands which hire European Law Students from The European Law School and transfer them to America. If not in the Netherlands, than in Brussels.

Once again thankyou very much for your help.
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GeorgeN11
Thankyou for such a fast reply! :) Looks as if going to a European Law School will help then if they are looking for diversity. Especially in the language side of things once i learn Dutch more fluently.

On the topic of firms, after i for example achieve an LLM in European and International Taxation Law from The European Law School would it be better for me to then get a job in Brussels for a few years to gain experience prior to going for an American LLM or would you recommend going straight in for the American LLM after the European and International Tax Law LLM and try to get a job in the desired field after gaining American LLM?

On the basis of tuition. I do not mind paying the premium for a T14 Law School's tuition. I know it will be worth it in the long run.

Once again thankyou very much,

George.
Thankyou for such a fast reply! :) Looks as if going to a European Law School will help then if they are looking for diversity. Especially in the language side of things once i learn Dutch more fluently.

On the topic of firms, after i for example achieve an LLM in European and International Taxation Law from The European Law School would it be better for me to then get a job in Brussels for a few years to gain experience prior to going for an American LLM or would you recommend going straight in for the American LLM after the European and International Tax Law LLM and try to get a job in the desired field after gaining American LLM?

On the basis of tuition. I do not mind paying the premium for a T14 Law School's tuition. I know it will be worth it in the long run.

Once again thankyou very much,

George.
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GeorgeN11
Thankyou :) This is some awesome guidance. I am really grateful for your help. If i do not get into a Top 5 Law School straight after European Law School LLM i think i will do as you say and gain some experience. Hopefully in a Dutch/Belgium and US Firm. There are a few that i know of.

Also sorry to be a bother but there is the option to attend for 6 months i believe in the 3rd year a partner University in America or Canada. Is it worth doing this in terms of whether it will help with what we have discussed.

Maastricht allows Law students to go to either Washburn Law School, Penn State, McGill Montreal, Osgoode Hall Toronto and also University of British Columbia. There are also other universities such as Hong Kong ect but they are not so relevant to where i want to end up location wise.

Once again thankyou, you have given me some great guidance.
Thankyou :) This is some awesome guidance. I am really grateful for your help. If i do not get into a Top 5 Law School straight after European Law School LLM i think i will do as you say and gain some experience. Hopefully in a Dutch/Belgium and US Firm. There are a few that i know of.

Also sorry to be a bother but there is the option to attend for 6 months i believe in the 3rd year a partner University in America or Canada. Is it worth doing this in terms of whether it will help with what we have discussed.

Maastricht allows Law students to go to either Washburn Law School, Penn State, McGill Montreal, Osgoode Hall Toronto and also University of British Columbia. There are also other universities such as Hong Kong ect but they are not so relevant to where i want to end up location wise.

Once again thankyou, you have given me some great guidance.

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GeorgeN11
Okay, interesting. I can see where you are coming from completely. Hong Kong experience would be a great addition. To have experience in European and Hong Kong Law would be a great thing to have by the looks of it. University of Hong Kong is also very highly ranked in the world wide tables. Certainly something to consider. Great information once again! Thank you so much Terkiana. :)
Okay, interesting. I can see where you are coming from completely. Hong Kong experience would be a great addition. To have experience in European and Hong Kong Law would be a great thing to have by the looks of it. University of Hong Kong is also very highly ranked in the world wide tables. Certainly something to consider. Great information once again! Thank you so much Terkiana. :)
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Well George you are very welcome. Good luck with your carrer.
Well George you are very welcome. Good luck with your carrer.
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Hey Terkiana,

I've found this post through a google search, and I have some questioning you might be able to help me with.

I am flerting with the possibility of going to the US for the LLM program at Harvard. After that, I plan on sitting for the BAR, either in NY or Illinois. The plan is actually settling in and getting a job. So, I have ways to get a letter of reccomendation from a criminal law professor here in Brazil, who's a visiting professor/lecturer at Harvard. I have a Law degree from the best Law School in my country, and I have a job experience of 9 years (current job) as a judge assistant in a federal court, more specifically the president's cabinet. This specific judge (current court's president) is a renowned lecturer and also a commercial law professor at the school I've graduated from. I think I could also get a letter of recomendation from him.

With those informations in mind, what perspectives I have in my scenario.
Hey Terkiana,

I've found this post through a google search, and I have some questioning you might be able to help me with.

I am flerting with the possibility of going to the US for the LLM program at Harvard. After that, I plan on sitting for the BAR, either in NY or Illinois. The plan is actually settling in and getting a job. So, I have ways to get a letter of reccomendation from a criminal law professor here in Brazil, who's a visiting professor/lecturer at Harvard. I have a Law degree from the best Law School in my country, and I have a job experience of 9 years (current job) as a judge assistant in a federal court, more specifically the president's cabinet. This specific judge (current court's president) is a renowned lecturer and also a commercial law professor at the school I've graduated from. I think I could also get a letter of recomendation from him.

With those informations in mind, what perspectives I have in my scenario.
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Terkiana

Thank you so much for this most generous, quick and thoughrougly insightful reply.

I forgot to mention I already have a Post Graduate Degree on Taxation Law, with wich I took come complementary credits that certified me to teach on Universities.

One thing that troubles me is wich area to choose when specializing my LLM direction through choosing wich classes to take from the curricular grid.

I've read that International Business and Financial law should be benefited from the recente crisis, since it all sums up to more and more regulation, thus meaning more and more work oportunities for us lawyers.

I've noticed there is also (if I'm not mistaken) a LLM on medical care law at Harvard, and that should raise some interesting increase in the field, regarding the recent medicare regulation package implemented by Barack Obama. But this should be a field more restricted to domestic law practice, therefore more accessible to american born attourneys (who would trust on a foreigner, regardless of him having a BAR, to take care of this kind of matter... my guess is that I would face some dificulties there).

So, what are your thoughts and opinions on that?

Kind regards,

Durand
Terkiana

Thank you so much for this most generous, quick and thoughrougly insightful reply.

I forgot to mention I already have a Post Graduate Degree on Taxation Law, with wich I took come complementary credits that certified me to teach on Universities.

One thing that troubles me is wich area to choose when specializing my LLM direction through choosing wich classes to take from the curricular grid.

I've read that International Business and Financial law should be benefited from the recente crisis, since it all sums up to more and more regulation, thus meaning more and more work oportunities for us lawyers.

I've noticed there is also (if I'm not mistaken) a LLM on medical care law at Harvard, and that should raise some interesting increase in the field, regarding the recent medicare regulation package implemented by Barack Obama. But this should be a field more restricted to domestic law practice, therefore more accessible to american born attourneys (who would trust on a foreigner, regardless of him having a BAR, to take care of this kind of matter... my guess is that I would face some dificulties there).

So, what are your thoughts and opinions on that?

Kind regards,

Durand
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Zhanna_M
Hello,

I'd very much appreciate your help. I have an LLB Diploma of Moscow State Academy of Law in the field of Private International Law. Now I'm considering an opportunity to obtain LLM in Osgoode Hall Law Scool in the field of IP Law. Will it help me to get a job in Canada or there is no possibility to find a job not having a LLB or JD? And is it possible to pass a Bar Exam? Thank you in advance!
Hello,

I'd very much appreciate your help. I have an LLB Diploma of Moscow State Academy of Law in the field of Private International Law. Now I'm considering an opportunity to obtain LLM in Osgoode Hall Law Scool in the field of IP Law. Will it help me to get a job in Canada or there is no possibility to find a job not having a LLB or JD? And is it possible to pass a Bar Exam? Thank you in advance!

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Jitana
I think there is a serious misconception about the availability of available legal jobs in the United States. I live five minutes out of Washington DC, the law capital of the world and I can tell you that there is no overwhelming need for lawyers here. Throw a stone in any direction here and you'll hit a lawyer and a hill staffer.

That said, If you must centre your plans around working in the US, you must be extremely realistic. First, you must familiarise yourself with the rules of the State bar of the State you wish to practice in. As far as I know, there are about 2 states (New York and California) that allow foreign trained attorneys with a common law background the sit the exam. Significantly, as of 2013, foreign-trained attorneys may be able to attain a waiver to sit the Maryland bar after passing another States bar with which they have reciprocity, eg New York.

After you have done the research, you should look at the firms in the area and the job listings to see what they are looking for. Research is your friend.

Finally, and I cannot stress this enough, if your English is not perfect, don't bother. You're better off excelling in your home country than amassing huge amounts of debt waiting for a job in the US.

Best of luck!

~Jitana
I think there is a serious misconception about the availability of available legal jobs in the United States. I live five minutes out of Washington DC, the law capital of the world and I can tell you that there is no overwhelming need for lawyers here. Throw a stone in any direction here and you'll hit a lawyer and a hill staffer.

That said, If you must centre your plans around working in the US, you must be extremely realistic. First, you must familiarise yourself with the rules of the State bar of the State you wish to practice in. As far as I know, there are about 2 states (New York and California) that allow foreign trained attorneys with a common law background the sit the exam. Significantly, as of 2013, foreign-trained attorneys may be able to attain a waiver to sit the Maryland bar after passing another States bar with which they have reciprocity, eg New York.

After you have done the research, you should look at the firms in the area and the job listings to see what they are looking for. Research is your friend.

Finally, and I cannot stress this enough, if your English is not perfect, don't bother. You're better off excelling in your home country than amassing huge amounts of debt waiting for a job in the US.

Best of luck!

~Jitana

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Zhanna_M
Jitana,

Thank you for your respond. I appreciate your help
Jitana,

Thank you for your respond. I appreciate your help
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Jitana
Zhanna,

No problem.

I didn't really understand your qualifications but I surmise that you have received your legal education from Russia? If that is the case and you are planning on coming to to US to practice, here is some useful information:

1. New York and California are the two States that will let you take the bar exam as a foreign trained attorney. It is my understanding that your degree cannot have been earned by distance and that if this is so, you must fulfil their criteria for further study i.e 24 credits in an LLM program from an American Bar Association (ABA) accredited school.

2. See: New York rules: http://www.nybarexam.org/Foreign/ForeignLegalEducation.htm.

3. See the Cali rules: http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=MK-p_BBvcAE%3D&tabid=265.

4. If you were educated in the the civil-law tradition or a non-traditional or mixed legal system, you may qualify for the New York Bar Exam after a U.S. Master of Laws degree with certain requirements. See Rule 520.6 [1] [ii] and 520.6 [2].

5. According to: http://www.nybarexam.org/Foreign/ForeignLegalEducation.htm

"Required Coursework. For applicants who commence a program in the 2012-2013 academic year, the LL.M degree program must include: (i) at least two semester hours of credit in professional responsibility, (ii) at least two credits in a legal research, writing and analysis course (which may NOT be satisfied by a research and writing requirement in a substantive course), (iii) at least two-credits in a course on American legal studies, the American legal system or a similar course designed to introduce students to U.S. law, and (iv) at least six credits in subjects tested on the New York bar examination (where a principal focus of the course includes material contained in the Content Outline published by the Board)."
***********

The above information in 5 is extremely important because *if* you do decide to study an LLM at US institution, you will need to make sure that the above requirements are satisfied when you choose your coursework, or else, you will not be eligible.

6. Keep in mind that pursuing study at a US institution requires about 55-70,000/annum for tuition, books, living expenses etc. Those funds must come from your own pockets, your family's wallets, your home banks or government if your grades are not high enough to meet scholarship requirements. Usually, if you are able to get scholarships, they don't cover everything.

I know it's a lot of information but this is a very big decision and you must go into it with your eyes open. I applaud your efforts :-). If you need more information, please do not hesitate to ask me!

~Jitana
Zhanna,

No problem.

I didn't really understand your qualifications but I surmise that you have received your legal education from Russia? If that is the case and you are planning on coming to to US to practice, here is some useful information:

1. New York and California are the two States that will let you take the bar exam as a foreign trained attorney. It is my understanding that your degree cannot have been earned by distance and that if this is so, you must fulfil their criteria for further study i.e 24 credits in an LLM program from an American Bar Association (ABA) accredited school.

2. See: New York rules: http://www.nybarexam.org/Foreign/ForeignLegalEducation.htm.

3. See the Cali rules: http://admissions.calbar.ca.gov/LinkClick.aspx?fileticket=MK-p_BBvcAE%3D&tabid=265.

4. If you were educated in the the civil-law tradition or a non-traditional or mixed legal system, you may qualify for the New York Bar Exam after a U.S. Master of Laws degree with certain requirements. See Rule 520.6 [b] [1] [ii] and 520.6 [b] [2].

5. According to: http://www.nybarexam.org/Foreign/ForeignLegalEducation.htm

"Required Coursework. For applicants who commence a program in the 2012-2013 academic year, the LL.M degree program must include: (i) at least two semester hours of credit in professional responsibility, (ii) at least two credits in a legal research, writing and analysis course (which may NOT be satisfied by a research and writing requirement in a substantive course), (iii) at least two-credits in a course on American legal studies, the American legal system or a similar course designed to introduce students to U.S. law, and (iv) at least six credits in subjects tested on the New York bar examination (where a principal focus of the course includes material contained in the Content Outline published by the Board)."
***********

The above information in 5 is extremely important because *if* you do decide to study an LLM at US institution, you will need to make sure that the above requirements are satisfied when you choose your coursework, or else, you will not be eligible.

6. Keep in mind that pursuing study at a US institution requires about 55-70,000/annum for tuition, books, living expenses etc. Those funds must come from your own pockets, your family's wallets, your home banks or government if your grades are not high enough to meet scholarship requirements. Usually, if you are able to get scholarships, they don't cover everything.

I know it's a lot of information but this is a very big decision and you must go into it with your eyes open. I applaud your efforts :-). If you need more information, please do not hesitate to ask me!

~Jitana
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