Cornell v Georgetown ~ v berkeley


ja83
Hi,

I got Cornell and Georgetown and waitlisted for Berkeley. Which one should I pick choose? Cornell over Georgetown? Berkeley over Cornell? Or...

thanks,
Hi,

I got Cornell and Georgetown and waitlisted for Berkeley. Which one should I pick choose? Cornell over Georgetown? Berkeley over Cornell? Or...

thanks,
quote
Santa
Berkeley > Cornell & Georgetown.

You will probably not get into Berkeley from the waiting list so I'd pick Georgetown, for it's location and fine name.
Berkeley > Cornell & Georgetown.

You will probably not get into Berkeley from the waiting list so I'd pick Georgetown, for it's location and fine name.
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nicolas_a
imo, GTown > Berkeley > Cornell
imo, GTown > Berkeley > Cornell
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ja83
Thanks for the replies.

Why not cornell? It has a fewer intake which means closer teaching + its ivy league? Or does the latter not matter that much these days..?

thanks
Thanks for the replies.

Why not cornell? It has a fewer intake which means closer teaching + its ivy league? Or does the latter not matter that much these days..?

thanks
quote
Hedek
Cornell is a very good school by all statistical measures (employment rate, median salary, LSAT requirement, faculty quality, etc). But it doesn't have anything "special" going on for it, that little "extra spice" that would spark the desire to go there over another T14 law school such as being in California or in DC.

Ithaca, NY is bland.There's nothing wrong nor interesting about it. If at least cost of life was cheaper... It's New Haven minus the prestige of Yale. Actually no, even if Yale was lower ranked, New Haven would still beat Ithaca.
Cornell is a very good school by all statistical measures (employment rate, median salary, LSAT requirement, faculty quality, etc). But it doesn't have anything "special" going on for it, that little "extra spice" that would spark the desire to go there over another T14 law school such as being in California or in DC.

Ithaca, NY is bland.There's nothing wrong nor interesting about it. If at least cost of life was cheaper... It's New Haven minus the prestige of Yale. Actually no, even if Yale was lower ranked, New Haven would still beat Ithaca.
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LLM_09-10
Hi everyone! I need your opinion on Cornell too. I've been accepted to NYU and Cornell and was seriously considering to attend the later. I currently live in NYC, so Cornell seemed to be a good chance to rest from a big city. However, I would not wish to attend a school that would put me in total disadvantage to the rest of the graduates. I'm really worried about the opinion people are giving on this board about Cornell. It seems no one really favors a decision of going there. Is it because of the location ONLY? or is it because of the faculty? has Cornell reputation worsened lately? I would be happy to hear from you.
Hi everyone! I need your opinion on Cornell too. I've been accepted to NYU and Cornell and was seriously considering to attend the later. I currently live in NYC, so Cornell seemed to be a good chance to rest from a big city. However, I would not wish to attend a school that would put me in total disadvantage to the rest of the graduates. I'm really worried about the opinion people are giving on this board about Cornell. It seems no one really favors a decision of going there. Is it because of the location ONLY? or is it because of the faculty? has Cornell reputation worsened lately? I would be happy to hear from you.
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Hedek
LLM_09-10: I'm sorry if my comment sounded like a general statement. It was just my personal opinion, and even worse, it was based solely on my tastes: I wouldn't spend a year in Ithaca when given the opportunity to live in DC or in California in schools of equivalent reputation.

If you want to move away from NYC and you enjoy Ithaca, then by all means Cornell is probably the right choice for you. The very argument that I perceived as a weakness (location) is a strength for you, which proves the highly subjective and biased nature of the advice we can give beyond simple statistical figures.
LLM_09-10: I'm sorry if my comment sounded like a general statement. It was just my personal opinion, and even worse, it was based solely on my tastes: I wouldn't spend a year in Ithaca when given the opportunity to live in DC or in California in schools of equivalent reputation.

If you want to move away from NYC and you enjoy Ithaca, then by all means Cornell is probably the right choice for you. The very argument that I perceived as a weakness (location) is a strength for you, which proves the highly subjective and biased nature of the advice we can give beyond simple statistical figures.
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LLM_09-10
Hi Hedek,

Thanks a lot for your email and for a clarification. I feel more positive now as I was about to give up Cornell in favor of NYU.

However, if you dont mind, I have one more question for you. Besides the location, what would be the other clear advantages/disadvantages one receives attending NYU or Cornell? I might sound too general, so would you agree in saying that NYU is clearly and undoubtebly superior to Cornell in terms of faculty, job placement and future career options? I am planning to pursue a career in international public law and will try to land an internship in int. organizationsor preferably courts. Hope to hear from you again.

Anyone else who would like to comment on this topic, please feel welcome to do so. I appreciate any feedback on your behalf.
Hi Hedek,

Thanks a lot for your email and for a clarification. I feel more positive now as I was about to give up Cornell in favor of NYU.

However, if you dont mind, I have one more question for you. Besides the location, what would be the other clear advantages/disadvantages one receives attending NYU or Cornell? I might sound too general, so would you agree in saying that NYU is clearly and undoubtebly superior to Cornell in terms of faculty, job placement and future career options? I am planning to pursue a career in international public law and will try to land an internship in int. organizationsor preferably courts. Hope to hear from you again.

Anyone else who would like to comment on this topic, please feel welcome to do so. I appreciate any feedback on your behalf.
quote
Hedek
Hi Hedek,

Thanks a lot for your email and for a clarification. I feel more positive now as I was about to give up Cornell in favor of NYU.

However, if you dont mind, I have one more question for you. Besides the location, what would be the other clear advantages/disadvantages one receives attending NYU or Cornell? I might sound too general, so would you agree in saying that NYU is clearly and undoubtebly superior to Cornell in terms of faculty, job placement and future career options? I am planning to pursue a career in international public law and will try to land an internship in int. organizationsor preferably courts. Hope to hear from you again.

Anyone else who would like to comment on this topic, please feel welcome to do so. I appreciate any feedback on your behalf.


The fact NYU is higher ranked than Cornell gives it a higher reputation. And reputation means the name will open more doors. When people ask for advice in this board, I have noticed that a lot of people (including me) tend to just mimic US News ranking "A is higher ranked than B so you should go to A" almost implying "you're an idiot for even asking such an obvious question". But if people are asking the question in the first place, I'm assuming they're already fully aware of the ranking difference and they're expecting posters to shed light on other parameters they're willing to take into consideration.

The fact you're attracted by Cornell despite being accepted by NYU is very telling.

To answer your questions, yes, previous year statistics indicate that NYU is undoubtedly superior in terms of job placements and career opportunities. But these figures are for JD only, and apparently international LLM NYU graduates (those who don't hold an american JD) are very from those figures.
But statistics are just probabilities, with all the uncertainties and randomness this implies. Here we are trying to minimize risks as any true lawyer, yet we can only predict so much. I'd rather be in the 60% that finds a job at school A than in the 1% unemployed at school B. Of course with a reasoning like this, nothing matters and all schools are equal, which of course isn't true. So how do you decide? I believe the probably of being in the % of graduates who find a job depends on how well you performed, and that depends on how happy and comfortable you are with your school.
If you're feeling uneasy in NYC you may end up with bad grades at NYU and job prospects will be slimmer than had you attended Cornell.

That said, since your interest is in international law. I can't in all honesty encourage you NOT to go to NYU. It is simply considered by many as the best in the USA, even above Yale Harvard and Stanford. And here I am again mimicing US News rankings (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/law/internationall) :(
But if you're aiming at international courts, you need to put all chances on your side.

Which faculty is better? Who can issue such a judgment? Certainly not I. UChicago Professor Leiter attempts to rate it here http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/index.shtml
And even then I believe his methodology is open to some criticism (quantity of citations does not equal quality, people might be quoting a Yale professor just because he's from Yale and they want to prove how wrong he is and how much they disagree with him, and membership in the American academy of arts and sciences distinguishes academical writing rather than the ability to be a good teacher).
<blockquote>Hi Hedek,

Thanks a lot for your email and for a clarification. I feel more positive now as I was about to give up Cornell in favor of NYU.

However, if you dont mind, I have one more question for you. Besides the location, what would be the other clear advantages/disadvantages one receives attending NYU or Cornell? I might sound too general, so would you agree in saying that NYU is clearly and undoubtebly superior to Cornell in terms of faculty, job placement and future career options? I am planning to pursue a career in international public law and will try to land an internship in int. organizationsor preferably courts. Hope to hear from you again.

Anyone else who would like to comment on this topic, please feel welcome to do so. I appreciate any feedback on your behalf. </blockquote>

The fact NYU is higher ranked than Cornell gives it a higher reputation. And reputation means the name will open more doors. When people ask for advice in this board, I have noticed that a lot of people (including me) tend to just mimic US News ranking "A is higher ranked than B so you should go to A" almost implying "you're an idiot for even asking such an obvious question". But if people are asking the question in the first place, I'm assuming they're already fully aware of the ranking difference and they're expecting posters to shed light on other parameters they're willing to take into consideration.

The fact you're attracted by Cornell despite being accepted by NYU is very telling.

To answer your questions, yes, previous year statistics indicate that NYU is undoubtedly superior in terms of job placements and career opportunities. But these figures are for JD only, and apparently international LLM NYU graduates (those who don't hold an american JD) are very from those figures.
But statistics are just probabilities, with all the uncertainties and randomness this implies. Here we are trying to minimize risks as any true lawyer, yet we can only predict so much. I'd rather be in the 60% that finds a job at school A than in the 1% unemployed at school B. Of course with a reasoning like this, nothing matters and all schools are equal, which of course isn't true. So how do you decide? I believe the probably of being in the % of graduates who find a job depends on how well you performed, and that depends on how happy and comfortable you are with your school.
If you're feeling uneasy in NYC you may end up with bad grades at NYU and job prospects will be slimmer than had you attended Cornell.

That said, since your interest is in international law. I can't in all honesty encourage you NOT to go to NYU. It is simply considered by many as the best in the USA, even above Yale Harvard and Stanford. And here I am again mimicing US News rankings (http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/law/internationall) :(
But if you're aiming at international courts, you need to put all chances on your side.

Which faculty is better? Who can issue such a judgment? Certainly not I. UChicago Professor Leiter attempts to rate it here http://www.leiterrankings.com/faculty/index.shtml
And even then I believe his methodology is open to some criticism (quantity of citations does not equal quality, people might be quoting a Yale professor just because he's from Yale and they want to prove how wrong he is and how much they disagree with him, and membership in the American academy of arts and sciences distinguishes academical writing rather than the ability to be a good teacher).
quote
pmm2009
Hey LLM_09-10,

I am glad to read your post and the replies because I am in the same dilemma as you are.
I have admits from Cornell, Duke, Northwestern (general), Fordham and USC. I can not decide between Cornell and NU. During LL.M., I want to focus on Corporate laws & International finance.

Friends, can you share some ideas on such situations?
Thanks in advance.
Hey LLM_09-10,

I am glad to read your post and the replies because I am in the same dilemma as you are.
I have admits from Cornell, Duke, Northwestern (general), Fordham and USC. I can not decide between Cornell and NU. During LL.M., I want to focus on Corporate laws & International finance.

Friends, can you share some ideas on such situations?
Thanks in advance.
quote
nicolas_a
isn't ivy league about colleges rather than law schools ?
ivy league is a quite archaic and minor consideration imo, especially for non us students

even though cornell is all in all quite attractive, I agree with the post stating that nothing make it special and, therefore, worthy
isn't ivy league about colleges rather than law schools ?
ivy league is a quite archaic and minor consideration imo, especially for non us students

even though cornell is all in all quite attractive, I agree with the post stating that nothing make it special and, therefore, worthy
quote
LLM_09-10
Thanks everyone for replies and special thanks to Hedek for your extremely thoughtful and insightful advice. I appreciate your time very much and just want to add that your willingess and desire to share your opinion and help your a peer is admirable. I wish you all the best and success in your promising career of attorney.

As to the choice between NYU and Cornell, I will carefully consider all pros and cons for myself again before making the final decision. I do realize to the certain degree the advantage of studying at NYU...but having lived last 7 years in different big and busy cities, I start feeling exausted of craziness and intense anxiety you are faced on daily manner. It is true that an LLM is after all a personal choice and I guess I will take my time to make a personal decision.
Thanks everyone for replies and special thanks to Hedek for your extremely thoughtful and insightful advice. I appreciate your time very much and just want to add that your willingess and desire to share your opinion and help your a peer is admirable. I wish you all the best and success in your promising career of attorney.

As to the choice between NYU and Cornell, I will carefully consider all pros and cons for myself again before making the final decision. I do realize to the certain degree the advantage of studying at NYU...but having lived last 7 years in different big and busy cities, I start feeling exausted of craziness and intense anxiety you are faced on daily manner. It is true that an LLM is after all a personal choice and I guess I will take my time to make a personal decision.

quote
Santa
Hey LLM_09-10,

I am glad to read your post and the replies because I am in the same dilemma as you are.
I have admits from Cornell, Duke, Northwestern (general), Fordham and USC. I can not decide between Cornell and NU. During LL.M., I want to focus on Corporate laws & International finance.

Friends, can you share some ideas on such situations?
Thanks in advance.

In principle for corporate & finance Northwestern is in a league of its own compared to your other choices.
<blockquote>Hey LLM_09-10,

I am glad to read your post and the replies because I am in the same dilemma as you are.
I have admits from Cornell, Duke, Northwestern (general), Fordham and USC. I can not decide between Cornell and NU. During LL.M., I want to focus on Corporate laws & International finance.

Friends, can you share some ideas on such situations?
Thanks in advance. </blockquote>
In principle for corporate & finance Northwestern is in a league of its own compared to your other choices.
quote
ja83
I am very glad to have read the numerous responses above about Cornell, NYU etc.

For me personally, I am torn between Georgetown and Cornell. Cornell has a small atmosphere which is attractive but on the other hand Georgetown has a lot more courses + a city experience. I have contacted people from Georgetown to hear more but I would like to hear a bit more from alumni students who have attended cornell.

Thanks again everyone,
I am very glad to have read the numerous responses above about Cornell, NYU etc.

For me personally, I am torn between Georgetown and Cornell. Cornell has a small atmosphere which is attractive but on the other hand Georgetown has a lot more courses + a city experience. I have contacted people from Georgetown to hear more but I would like to hear a bit more from alumni students who have attended cornell.

Thanks again everyone,
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MissISE
Hello ja83. May I please ask where you ended up going? I am currently trying to decide between Cornell and Georgetown.
Hello ja83. May I please ask where you ended up going? I am currently trying to decide between Cornell and Georgetown.
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Wavshrdr
I was offered admission to these schools. While I didn't choose any of them, of these I would have went to GT. As others have mentioned there is really nothing "special" about Cornell.

On another note,I think Cornell's tuition is overpriced. How can they charge more than Stanford, Harvard or Yale? Once you get below the top 3, (YLS, SLS and HLS) the rankings really don't matter as much especially once you are out of the top 10. There seem to be tiers in the top 10 as well so if you are going to a school of a comparable tier, not much difference.

At the end of the day, the T14 are considered the elite schools and then there are the "elite of the elite" the T3. With respect to GT vs Cornell, GT will have very good networking opportunities and be in a very active area (Washington, DC). It does cost a lot more to live in DC but there is a lot more to do as well. Much easier to fly home or travel from DC than Ithaca.
I was offered admission to these schools. While I didn't choose any of them, of these I would have went to GT. As others have mentioned there is really nothing "special" about Cornell.

On another note,I think Cornell's tuition is overpriced. How can they charge more than Stanford, Harvard or Yale? Once you get below the top 3, (YLS, SLS and HLS) the rankings really don't matter as much especially once you are out of the top 10. There seem to be tiers in the top 10 as well so if you are going to a school of a comparable tier, not much difference.

At the end of the day, the T14 are considered the elite schools and then there are the "elite of the elite" the T3. With respect to GT vs Cornell, GT will have very good networking opportunities and be in a very active area (Washington, DC). It does cost a lot more to live in DC but there is a lot more to do as well. Much easier to fly home or travel from DC than Ithaca.
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