Hi All! I have been admitted in Chicago and UPenn. I'm still waiting to hear from NYU. NYU used to be my top pick but being accepted in Chicago and UPenn really confused me. I could use some advice... Pros and Cons. Any insights are welcome!

Hi! I've been admitted to both Chicago and UPenn as well. I also applied to NYU and I'm currently waiting for the answer, but regardless of what the answer might be, after doing some research, I would still choose between Chicago and UPenn, ahead of NYU.

At the end of the day, if you applied for a general LLM, NYU's main attraction -in comparison to the other two - is the city in which it is located. The program is less selective, tons of applicants are admitted (many of which have zero experience), and you will be lucky if you meet half of them. It will be also unavoidable to spend most of your time with people from your country (there will be at least 5 of them) and that also limits your experience.

In terms of rankings and prestige, on the other hand, all three of them are very close and you could even say that Chicago is usually ranked better. There is also a psycological wall here: Would you settle for NYC's second best law school (behind Columbia) when you had the chance to go to Chicago and UPenn which are (at least Chicago) in the same league as Columbia, only behind Harvard, Yale and Stanford?

Then, it all comes down to the cities. For many, studying and living in NYC is the dream. If that is your dream, then go to NYU. But Chicago and Philadelphia and are also extraordinary cities (among the biggest and more important of the USA) and if the little things that these other two programs add in comparison to NYU are making you doubt, then this opinion might be useful.

Finally, think about your area of practice, and where do you think you will find better professors and meet colleagues that can improve your legal network. Each school has a different profile, and for many this should be the most important aspect in this decision.

I hope this helps, and let me know once you decide, maybe we will be attemding the same program.

Thank you for answering me! Its great that we have the opportunity to choose...

Your post is very useful. I agree with most of the points you made.

Regarding the city, I must admit that New York is really tempting. I've also applied to Columbia but haven't heard of them yet and considering the costs involved, even if I get accepted (which I doubt) I am not sure I can attend.

Also, living in NYC may seem like a dream but Chicago looks promising as well and it is a beautiful city. Never been in Philadelphia so I can't really imagine what is like.

On the other hand, one of the reasons I really like NYU is because of job opportunities after the LLM. I think it could be easier to find a job after the LLM being in New York. I am from Latin-america and currently working in a law firm that manages many clients from the US. We receive most of them from law firms located either in NYC or in DC.

Lastly, you too let me know what you decide (or if you have already decided)!

Personally I was not admitted to Chicago, but it is definitely where I would go, for different reasons. But as heatfan said, it is one league above NYU and I'd say Penn as well. Plus they are great in international, Corporate and Tax laws, which interest me. What are your fields of interest ?

Thank you for answering.

I think that right now Chicago is leading...

Im interested in International Business and arbitration (corporate, transactions).

Does anybody knows if the LLM students may take classes at booth and if they are included in your LLM tuiton? I think UPenn lets you take one MBA course at Wharton without having to pay any extra.

On the other hand, one of the reasons I really like NYU is because of job opportunities after the LLM. I think it could be easier to find a job after the LLM being in New York. I am from Latin-america and currently working in a law firm that manages many clients from the US. We receive most of them from law firms located either in NYC or in DC.

These are really helpful posts.

Facing a similar situation here: admitted to Chicago and Upenn, waiting for other decisions. If I am lucky to get admitted to NYU as well, I guess I will still go with Chicago. But what if it's Columbia...?

Thank you for answering me! Its great that we have the opportunity to choose...

Your post is very useful. I agree with most of the points you made.

Regarding the city, I must admit that New York is really tempting. I've also applied to Columbia but haven't heard of them yet and considering the costs involved, even if I get accepted (which I doubt) I am not sure I can attend.

Also, living in NYC may seem like a dream but Chicago looks promising as well and it is a beautiful city. Never been in Philadelphia so I can't really imagine what is like.

On the other hand, one of the reasons I really like NYU is because of job opportunities after the LLM. I think it could be easier to find a job after the LLM being in New York. I am from Latin-america and currently working in a law firm that manages many clients from the US. We receive most of them from law firms located either in NYC or in DC.

Lastly, you too let me know what you decide (or if you have already decided)!

These are really helpful posts.

Facing a similar situation here: admitted to Chicago and Upenn, waiting for other decisions. If I am lucky to get admitted to NYU as well, I guess I will still go with Chicago. But what if it's Columbia...?

Thank you for answering me! Its great that we have the opportunity to choose...

Your post is very useful. I agree with most of the points you made.

Regarding the city, I must admit that New York is really tempting. I've also applied to Columbia but haven't heard of them yet and considering the costs involved, even if I get accepted (which I doubt) I am not sure I can attend.

Also, living in NYC may seem like a dream but Chicago looks promising as well and it is a beautiful city. Never been in Philadelphia so I can't really imagine what is like.

On the other hand, one of the reasons I really like NYU is because of job opportunities after the LLM. I think it could be easier to find a job after the LLM being in New York. I am from Latin-america and currently working in a law firm that manages many clients from the US. We receive most of them from law firms located either in NYC or in DC.

Lastly, you too let me know what you decide (or if you have already decided)!

That's funny! I'm from South America! Like someone here said, being in NYC does not actually give you an advantage for finding a job. It may be easier to attend the job fair in January, but your best chance is that your current firm may find you a place with a partner firm in the US.

Argentina???

Close! From the other side of the Andes, the country that beat Argentina twice at the final of the last two Copa America. Send me a private message and we can speak in Spanish if you want, without bothering other people.

Now it's official! I've been admitted to NYU (which is great).

I think it's up to University of Chicago or NYU at this time. However, I really can't make my mind between those two. Hopefully, scholarships will help me decide.

Now it's really up to what you want out of the program.

I am not familiar with what uni has the best courses or faculty in your area of interest, but if you're looking into having the time of your life, I know plenty of folks who seem to be having a blast at NYU.

(Although, I am sure people aren't crying at Chicago either).

I was also admitted to UPenn and NYU. At this stage, I am not considering NYU for the reasons below:

1. I am not sure whether NYU is more "famous" worldwide than UPenn because it has a better program (which I don't think so), because more people graduate and therefore there is more people around with an NYU degree, or just because it is located in NYC. Since I don’t think NYU is more “famous” because it has a better program, I don’t see any reason that would turn my thoughts to NYU rather than UPenn.

2. The point that UPenn has a smaller program is more attractive as well. At least in my country (Brazil), you will find many NYU alumni, and not that much of UPenn's LLMs. Being part of a more selective group seems also to be a better choice. I heard that NYU admits around 450 LLMs per year, and UPenn around 115 (all my friends were admitted to NYU, but only some of them to UPenn).
Also for this reason I think that it’s more difficult for UPenn’s LLMs to be bound to their native friends and therefore to speak their own language -- I think everyone who apply for an LLM degree is also willing to improve their English!

3. Considering that Columbia is the main university in NYC, I am not sure whether I would be comfortable in attending the second power in the city. I have the same impression with Northwestern (which also granted me an admission). I am sure that both Northwestern and NYU have wonderful programs, but how about attending the 2nd player in the city?

4. I'm willing to get the WBLC from Wharton, which costs extra ~USD 14k. Having said that, I’m sure that living in NYC would get me to spend these USD 14k in beer due to the higher costs of living in NYC. It might be more efficient to pay these 14k to get a certificate from Wharton - and probably spend another 14k in beer in Philadelphia, but that’s another department :)

5. I'm absolutely convinced that attending NYU has no relation whatsoever with you finding a job afterwards. First because the law firm you work at has maybe 95% of higher chances to get you in an US firm than you by yourself. Second because the jobfair is something proforma and doesn't actually helps you that much (all the spots are fulfiled before the jobfair), and lastly because Philadelphia is 1,5h ride from NYC. You won't be prevented from finding a job if you attend UPenn. And for the reasons of this post maybe you would find a job more easily!

6. Many people dream about living in NYC. I am sure it’s awesome. But at least in my case, I will be working on the year after the LLM in NYC. So I’m not that anxious to attend an university in NYC because I will live there during the second year.

7. UPenn is an Ivy and NYU is not. I think that nowadays being an Ivy has more “charm” than any other thing, but I am also sure that US firms do think that Ivies are more “relevant”, and I’d rather also to go to an Ivy.

8. Lastly, I wish I don't get an admission email from Columbia. JK. If I am approved at Columbia I would panic. I think there is no way of denying an admission from Columbia, but one has to have in mind that one variable of the formula (location x costs x program x prestige) is COST. And Columbia is the most expensive program in the most expensive city. Maybe that would prevent me from attending Columbia - that question would be a good brainstorm if I’m accepted at Columbia.

Hope that helps.

I was also admitted to UPenn and NYU. At this stage, I am not considering NYU for the reasons below:

1. I am not sure whether NYU is more "famous" worldwide than UPenn because it has a better program (which I don't think so), because more people graduate and therefore there is more people around with an NYU degree, or just because it is located in NYC. Since I don’t think NYU is more “famous” because it has a better program, I don’t see any reason that would turn my thoughts to NYU rather than UPenn.

2. The point that UPenn has a smaller program is more attractive as well. At least in my country (Brazil), you will find many NYU alumni, and not that much of UPenn's LLMs. Being part of a more selective group seems also to be a better choice. I heard that UPenn admits around 450 LLMs per year, and UPenn around 115 (all my friends were admitted to NYU, but only some of them to UPenn).
Also for this reason I think that it’s more difficult for UPenn’s LLMs to be bound to their native friends and therefore to speak their own language -- I think everyone who apply for an LLM degree is also willing to improve their English!

3. Considering that Columbia is the main university in NYC, I am not sure whether I would be comfortable in attending the second power in the city. I have the same impression with Northwestern (which also granted me an admission). I am sure that both Northwestern and NYU have wonderful programs, but how about attending the 2nd player in the city?

4. I'm willing to get the WBLC from Wharton, which costs extra ~USD 14k. Having said that, I’m sure that living in NYC would get me to spend these USD 14k in beer due to the higher costs of living in NYC. It might be more efficient to pay these 14k to get a certificate from Wharton - and probably spend another 14k in beer in Philadelphia, but that’s another department :)

5. I'm absolutely convinced that attending NYU has no relation whatsoever with you finding a job afterwards. First because the law firm you work at has maybe 95% of higher chances to get you in an US firm than you by yourself. Second because the jobfair is something proforma and doesn't actually helps you that much (all the spots are fulfiled before the jobfair), and lastly because Philadelphia is 1,5h ride from NYC. You won't be prevented from finding a job if you attend UPenn. And for the reasons of this post maybe you would find a job more easily!

6. Many people dream about living in NYC. I am sure it’s awesome. But at least in my case, I will be working on the year after the LLM in NYC. So I’m not that anxious to attend an university in NYC because I will live there during the second year.

7. UPenn in an Ivy and NYU is not. I think that nowadays being an Ivy has more “charm” than any other thing, but I am also sure that US firms do think that Ivies are more “relevant”, and I’d rather also to go to an Ivy.

8. Lastly, I wish I don't get an admission email from Columbia. JK. If I am approved at Columbia I would panic. I think there is no way of denying an admission from Columbia, but one has to have in mind that one variable of the formula (location x costs x program x prestige) is COST. And Columbia is the most expensive program in the most expensive city. Maybe that would prevent me from attending Columbia - that question would be a good brainstorm if I’m accepted at Columbia.

Hope that helps.

[Edited by Bhohr on Mar 13, 2017]

I was also admitted to UPenn and NYU. At this stage, I am not considering NYU for the reasons below:

1. I am not sure whether NYU is more "famous" worldwide than UPenn because it has a better program (which I don't think so), because more people graduate and therefore there is more people around with an NYU degree, or just because it is located in NYC. Since I don’t think NYU is more “famous” because it has a better program, I don’t see any reason that would turn my thoughts to NYU rather than UPenn.

2. The point that UPenn has a smaller program is more attractive as well. At least in my country (Brazil), you will find many NYU alumni, and not that much of UPenn's LLMs. Being part of a more selective group seems also to be a better choice. I heard that UPenn admits around 450 LLMs per year, and UPenn around 115 (all my friends were admitted to NYU, but only some of them to UPenn).
Also for this reason I think that it’s more difficult for UPenn’s LLMs to be bound to their native friends and therefore to speak their own language -- I think everyone who apply for an LLM degree is also willing to improve their English!

3. Considering that Columbia is the main university in NYC, I am not sure whether I would be comfortable in attending the second power in the city. I have the same impression with Northwestern (which also granted me an admission). I am sure that both Northwestern and NYU have wonderful programs, but how about attending the 2nd player in the city?

4. I'm willing to get the WBLC from Wharton, which costs extra ~USD 14k. Having said that, I’m sure that living in NYC would get me to spend these USD 14k in beer due to the higher costs of living in NYC. It might be more efficient to pay these 14k to get a certificate from Wharton - and probably spend another 14k in beer in Philadelphia, but that’s another department :)

5. I'm absolutely convinced that attending NYU has no relation whatsoever with you finding a job afterwards. First because the law firm you work at has maybe 95% of higher chances to get you in an US firm than you by yourself. Second because the jobfair is something proforma and doesn't actually helps you that much (all the spots are fulfiled before the jobfair), and lastly because Philadelphia is 1,5h ride from NYC. You won't be prevented from finding a job if you attend UPenn. And for the reasons of this post maybe you would find a job more easily!

6. Many people dream about living in NYC. I am sure it’s awesome. But at least in my case, I will be working on the year after the LLM in NYC. So I’m not that anxious to attend an university in NYC because I will live there during the second year.

7. UPenn in an Ivy and NYU is not. I think that nowadays being an Ivy has more “charm” than any other thing, but I am also sure that US firms do think that Ivies are more “relevant”, and I’d rather also to go to an Ivy.

8. Lastly, I wish I don't get an admission email from Columbia. JK. If I am approved at Columbia I would panic. I think there is no way of denying an admission from Columbia, but one has to have in mind that one variable of the formula (location x costs x program x prestige) is COST. And Columbia is the most expensive program in the most expensive city. Maybe that would prevent me from attending Columbia - that question would be a good brainstorm if I’m accepted at Columbia.

Hope that helps.

I tend to agree with you in every aspect. I think Penn is a more exclusive and elite school. I'd say my country is flooded with NYU alumni, while there are not so many of Ivy schools. I would not care to pick NYU over Columbia or Northwestern over Chicago either.

It depends on your area and what you are looking for. While some Law Schools are known for preparing its grads for the public sector (Yale) or at least a variety of jobs (Harvard), others are focused on forging great private sector attorneys, such as Columbia, Penn and Northwestern.

If you're looking forward to getting a job at a big law firm after your LLM, you should consider, for example, that both Penn and Northwestern are better ranked than NYU in almost every biglaw employment ranking:

1) Columbia Law School
2) University of Pennsylvania Law School
3) University of Chicago Law School
4) Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law
5) Duke Law School
6) New York University School of Law
7) Cornell Law School
8) University of Virginia School of Law
9) Stanford Law School
10) University of California, Berkeley School of Law

Source:
http://abovethelaw.com/2016/03/the-best-law-schools-for-getting-a-biglaw-job-2016/

I was also admitted to UPenn and NYU. At this stage, I am not considering NYU for the reasons below:

1. I am not sure whether NYU is more "famous" worldwide than UPenn because it has a better program (which I don't think so), because more people graduate and therefore there is more people around with an NYU degree, or just because it is located in NYC. Since I don’t think NYU is more “famous” because it has a better program, I don’t see any reason that would turn my thoughts to NYU rather than UPenn.

2. The point that UPenn has a smaller program is more attractive as well. At least in my country (Brazil), you will find many NYU alumni, and not that much of UPenn's LLMs. Being part of a more selective group seems also to be a better choice. I heard that UPenn admits around 450 LLMs per year, and UPenn around 115 (all my friends were admitted to NYU, but only some of them to UPenn).
Also for this reason I think that it’s more difficult for UPenn’s LLMs to be bound to their native friends and therefore to speak their own language -- I think everyone who apply for an LLM degree is also willing to improve their English!

3. Considering that Columbia is the main university in NYC, I am not sure whether I would be comfortable in attending the second power in the city. I have the same impression with Northwestern (which also granted me an admission). I am sure that both Northwestern and NYU have wonderful programs, but how about attending the 2nd player in the city?

4. I'm willing to get the WBLC from Wharton, which costs extra ~USD 14k. Having said that, I’m sure that living in NYC would get me to spend these USD 14k in beer due to the higher costs of living in NYC. It might be more efficient to pay these 14k to get a certificate from Wharton - and probably spend another 14k in beer in Philadelphia, but that’s another department :)

5. I'm absolutely convinced that attending NYU has no relation whatsoever with you finding a job afterwards. First because the law firm you work at has maybe 95% of higher chances to get you in an US firm than you by yourself. Second because the jobfair is something proforma and doesn't actually helps you that much (all the spots are fulfiled before the jobfair), and lastly because Philadelphia is 1,5h ride from NYC. You won't be prevented from finding a job if you attend UPenn. And for the reasons of this post maybe you would find a job more easily!

6. Many people dream about living in NYC. I am sure it’s awesome. But at least in my case, I will be working on the year after the LLM in NYC. So I’m not that anxious to attend an university in NYC because I will live there during the second year.

7. UPenn in an Ivy and NYU is not. I think that nowadays being an Ivy has more “charm” than any other thing, but I am also sure that US firms do think that Ivies are more “relevant”, and I’d rather also to go to an Ivy.

8. Lastly, I wish I don't get an admission email from Columbia. JK. If I am approved at Columbia I would panic. I think there is no way of denying an admission from Columbia, but one has to have in mind that one variable of the formula (location x costs x program x prestige) is COST. And Columbia is the most expensive program in the most expensive city. Maybe that would prevent me from attending Columbia - that question would be a good brainstorm if I’m accepted at Columbia.

Hope that helps.

I tend to agree with you in every aspect. I think Penn is a more exclusive and elite school. I'd say my country is flooded with NYU alumni, while there are not so many of Ivy schools. I would not care to pick NYU over Columbia or Northwestern over Chicago either.

It depends on your area and what you are looking for. While some Law Schools are known for preparing its grads for the public sector (Yale) or at least a variety of jobs (Harvard), others are focused on forging great private sector attorneys, such as Columbia, Penn and Northwestern.

If you're looking forward to getting a job at a big law firm after your LLM, you should consider, for example, that both Penn and Northwestern are better ranked than NYU in almost every biglaw employment ranking:

1) Columbia Law School
2) University of Pennsylvania Law School
3) University of Chicago Law School
4) Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law
5) Duke Law School
6) New York University School of Law
7) Cornell Law School
8) University of Virginia School of Law
9) Stanford Law School
10) University of California, Berkeley School of Law

Source:
http://abovethelaw.com/2016/03/the-best-law-schools-for-getting-a-biglaw-job-2016/

I would also certainly pick Penn over NYU. However, I disagree with the theory of the "second university in town/area". I have friends that chose Northwestern over Chicago, NYU over Columbia and even one friend who picked Bekeley over Stanford for various reasons...

I tend to agree with you in every aspect. I think Penn is a more exclusive and elite school. I'd say my country is flooded with NYU alumni, while there are not so many of Ivy schools. I would not care to pick NYU over Columbia or Northwestern over Chicago either.

It depends on your area and what you are looking for. While some Law Schools are known for preparing its grads for the public sector (Yale) or at least a variety of jobs (Harvard), others are focused on forging great private sector attorneys, such as Columbia, Penn and Northwestern.

If you're looking forward to getting a job at a big law firm after your LLM, you should consider, for example, that both Penn and Northwestern are better ranked than NYU in almost every biglaw employment ranking:

1) Columbia Law School
2) University of Pennsylvania Law School
3) University of Chicago Law School
4) Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law
5) Duke Law School
6) New York University School of Law
7) Cornell Law School
8) University of Virginia School of Law
9) Stanford Law School
10) University of California, Berkeley School of Law

Source:
http://abovethelaw.com/2016/03/the-best-law-schools-for-getting-a-biglaw-job-2016/

I would also certainly pick Penn over NYU. However, I disagree with the theory of the "second university in town/area". I have friends that chose Northwestern over Chicago, NYU over Columbia and even one friend who picked Bekeley over Stanford for various reasons...

What kind of reasons??

I would also certainly pick Penn over NYU. However, I disagree with the theory of the "second university in town/area". I have friends that chose Northwestern over Chicago, NYU over Columbia and even one friend who picked Bekeley over Stanford for various reasons...

What kind of reasons??

Well, many reasons, but mainly due to the fact that some programs are just better at NYU, Northwestern and Bekeley like:

NYU Tax Law > Columbia
Northwestern Tax Law > Chicago
Northwestern Dispute Resolution > Chicago
NYU International Law > Columbia, Harvard and all others...
Northwestern Environmental > Chicago

Location within the cities is also an advantage for Northwestern (especially) and NYU.

[Edited by Bhohr on Mar 14, 2017]

What kind of reasons??

Well, many reasons, but mainly due to the fact that some programs are just better at NYU, Northwestern and Bekeley like:

NYU Tax Law > Columbia
Northwestern Tax Law > Chicago
Northwestern Dispute Resolution > Chicago
NYU International Law > Columbia, Harvard and all others...
Northwestern Environmental > Chicago

Location within the cities is also an advantage for Northwestern (especially) and NYU.

Yes, I guess looking at the rankings is important, but when making a decision, one has to go beyond them.. And let's face it, any of the T14 or so universities will be great. What may at first seem an obvious choice (picking a better ranked univerisity) may not be the best for one's particular interests and objectives...