Online LLMs in Tax?


SWJtax
Hello all! I'm glad I found this forum and am hoping for some honest feedback/guidance.

I am hoping to begin a part-time, online LLM in Taxation in the Fall of 2014. I am in the process of applying to NYU for its Executive LLM and am looking for some honest feedback on my chances of admission and guidance as to what other schools I should consider, if any.

Background on me: I graduated from a law school ranked in the top 15 almost 15 years ago. Although my school does not rank students, I did just ok and had a B/B+ average and was somewhere between the top 1/3 - top 40% based on information provided by the school. I had a 167 LSAT (I just saw that on an application at BU??). I practiced law at a large, international law firm in the estate planning area for 4.5 years and have worked in tax at a Big 4 accounting firm, where I'm currently a Senior Manager (I actually started in law school, practiced law, then went back to accounting), the remaining part of my career. I also did not work and was a fulltime mother to my four young children for almost five years (I went back to work a year ago).

Any suggestions or ideas? There is a live part-time LLM program in my area, but most of the classes are taught by individuals who I know and are my peers, so I would prefer to avoid it. Also, I love my job and do not want to change firms or professions, so I'm not concerned about the Executive vs. "regular" LLM designation.

Thanks!
Hello all! I'm glad I found this forum and am hoping for some honest feedback/guidance.

I am hoping to begin a part-time, online LLM in Taxation in the Fall of 2014. I am in the process of applying to NYU for its Executive LLM and am looking for some honest feedback on my chances of admission and guidance as to what other schools I should consider, if any.

Background on me: I graduated from a law school ranked in the top 15 almost 15 years ago. Although my school does not rank students, I did just ok and had a B/B+ average and was somewhere between the top 1/3 - top 40% based on information provided by the school. I had a 167 LSAT (I just saw that on an application at BU??). I practiced law at a large, international law firm in the estate planning area for 4.5 years and have worked in tax at a Big 4 accounting firm, where I'm currently a Senior Manager (I actually started in law school, practiced law, then went back to accounting), the remaining part of my career. I also did not work and was a fulltime mother to my four young children for almost five years (I went back to work a year ago).

Any suggestions or ideas? There is a live part-time LLM program in my area, but most of the classes are taught by individuals who I know and are my peers, so I would prefer to avoid it. Also, I love my job and do not want to change firms or professions, so I'm not concerned about the Executive vs. "regular" LLM designation.

Thanks!
quote
CSJTax
NYU's Executive LLM in Taxation was my first thought when reading your inquiry. They also have an Estate Planning concentration, so I would recommend applying to the concentration when you apply for the Executive LLM in Taxation. John Marshall Law School in Chicago also has an online LLM in Estate Planning. It is not a Taxation LLM and John Marshall is not very highly ranked.

For Taxation and Estate Planning, I definitely would consider Georgetown (ranked #2)--they have a Taxation LLM with an Estate Planning Certificate; and U of Florida (ranked #3) also has an Estate Planning concentration. I don't think you can get the GULC or UF degrees online, though.

With you background, I think your chances at Georgetown and Florida are good. I'm not familiar enough with the selection criteria for NYU's Executive LLM. There is an active discussion about NYU's Executive LLM on this board with a few current students monitoring it and answering questions.

Where are you located?
NYU's Executive LLM in Taxation was my first thought when reading your inquiry. They also have an Estate Planning concentration, so I would recommend applying to the concentration when you apply for the Executive LLM in Taxation. John Marshall Law School in Chicago also has an online LLM in Estate Planning. It is not a Taxation LLM and John Marshall is not very highly ranked.

For Taxation and Estate Planning, I definitely would consider Georgetown (ranked #2)--they have a Taxation LLM with an Estate Planning Certificate; and U of Florida (ranked #3) also has an Estate Planning concentration. I don't think you can get the GULC or UF degrees online, though.

With you background, I think your chances at Georgetown and Florida are good. I'm not familiar enough with the selection criteria for NYU's Executive LLM. There is an active discussion about NYU's Executive LLM on this board with a few current students monitoring it and answering questions.

Where are you located?
quote
CSJTax
Online LLMs in Tax are popping up everywhere!

Here are some Distance Learning LLM Programs that I found in my research:
NYU Law Schoolthe distance learning LLM is called the eLLM (for Executive LLM) in Taxation and they have an Estate Planning concentration. NYU consistently is the #1 ranked Tax LLM program in the country; only open to JD students
Georgetown University Law Center--#2 Tax LLM program in the country; they have a NEW distance learning Executive LLM in Taxationthey may be adding the Estate Planning Certificate courses over time; open only to JD students
Boston University School of Lawdistance learning LLM in Taxation with a Certificate in Estate Planning; #6 ranked Tax LLM program in the country; open only to JD students; the distance learning program is so new that they are still adding estate planning courses; check with them to see whether they added any for the 2014-2015 school year
Western New England Univ School of LawLLM in Estate Planning & Elder Law; this program is less tax focused (although there is some) and more practice-oriented; only open to JD students
Stetson University law School (Gulfport, FL)new Online LLM in Elder Law; I dont know anything about it but I just received a postcard in the mail (I don't know why I'm still getting solicitations since I already am at Georgetown); there seems to be only one tax course in the required courses; it is open only to JD students
John Marshall Law SchoolLLM in Estate Planning; my only caution here is that the degree is offered as an LLM for JD graduates and a MS for college graduates; LLMs and MSs all take the same classes and are pursuing different degrees; this makes me think that the program is not as rigorous as other LLM programs. It doesnt seem that it could be a post-doctorate (JD) level curriculum if your classmates are just in a Masters program right out of college.

As you can see, I did the research for Tax LLM programs that had an Estate Planning Certificate or concentration. There may be other new online Tax LLM programs that are starting up.

I'm very excited to see the Georgetown Executive LLM in Tax. Perhaps the NYU model is working.
Online LLMs in Tax are popping up everywhere!

Here are some Distance Learning LLM Programs that I found in my research:
• NYU Law School—the distance learning LLM is called the eLLM (for Executive LLM) in Taxation and they have an Estate Planning concentration. NYU consistently is the #1 ranked Tax LLM program in the country; only open to JD students
• Georgetown University Law Center--#2 Tax LLM program in the country; they have a NEW distance learning Executive LLM in Taxation—they may be adding the Estate Planning Certificate courses over time; open only to JD students
• Boston University School of Law—distance learning LLM in Taxation with a Certificate in Estate Planning; #6 ranked Tax LLM program in the country; open only to JD students; the distance learning program is so new that they are still adding estate planning courses; check with them to see whether they added any for the 2014-2015 school year
• Western New England Univ School of Law—LLM in Estate Planning & Elder Law; this program is less tax focused (although there is some) and more practice-oriented; only open to JD students
• Stetson University law School (Gulfport, FL)—new Online LLM in Elder Law; I don’t know anything about it but I just received a postcard in the mail (I don't know why I'm still getting solicitations since I already am at Georgetown); there seems to be only one tax course in the required courses; it is open only to JD students
• John Marshall Law School—LLM in Estate Planning; my only caution here is that the degree is offered as an LLM for JD graduates and a MS for college graduates; LLMs and MS’s all take the same classes and are pursuing different degrees; this makes me think that the program is not as rigorous as other LLM programs. It doesn’t seem that it could be a post-doctorate (JD) level curriculum if your classmates are just in a Master’s program right out of college.

As you can see, I did the research for Tax LLM programs that had an Estate Planning Certificate or concentration. There may be other new online Tax LLM programs that are starting up.

I'm very excited to see the Georgetown Executive LLM in Tax. Perhaps the NYU model is working.
quote
Honestly, I'd go with the in-person one in your town. Universities have decades (or in some cases centuries) of experience with on campus teaching. Online programs are new, and there are a million different ways they could in theory be done...as video-game style exercises online, recorded video lectures, ebooks, etc. If you pay close attention to the adds for these programs, they don't really tell you which of the options they chose...which is telling. They don't care, it is an afterthought. They just sort of shovel content onto the internet and advertise the hell out of it. Online programs are seen as cash-cows, a way to bring in revenue without having to expand the campus. The colleges aren't really evaluated based on their online grad programs, so they can get away with whatever they want.

I find on campus programs reward those who can focus for long periods of time on one thing. In practice, online programs reward those who can shift between different tasks rapidly, who can go from watching a video, to reading, to math problems quickly without losing their train of though. You need a fast internet connection, a cutting edge computer, quiet and privacy at home, a very good computer skills, and a way with bureaucracy. You also need a job that lets you take a lot of days off on short notice. DON'T assume it is nearly as flexible as they lead you to believe when they give the sales pitch. On the plus side, it would be great for someone who falls asleep in class.
Honestly, I'd go with the in-person one in your town. Universities have decades (or in some cases centuries) of experience with on campus teaching. Online programs are new, and there are a million different ways they could in theory be done...as video-game style exercises online, recorded video lectures, ebooks, etc. If you pay close attention to the adds for these programs, they don't really tell you which of the options they chose...which is telling. They don't care, it is an afterthought. They just sort of shovel content onto the internet and advertise the hell out of it. Online programs are seen as cash-cows, a way to bring in revenue without having to expand the campus. The colleges aren't really evaluated based on their online grad programs, so they can get away with whatever they want.

I find on campus programs reward those who can focus for long periods of time on one thing. In practice, online programs reward those who can shift between different tasks rapidly, who can go from watching a video, to reading, to math problems quickly without losing their train of though. You need a fast internet connection, a cutting edge computer, quiet and privacy at home, a very good computer skills, and a way with bureaucracy. You also need a job that lets you take a lot of days off on short notice. DON'T assume it is nearly as flexible as they lead you to believe when they give the sales pitch. On the plus side, it would be great for someone who falls asleep in class.
quote
TCMAN
I am currently enrolled in eLLM tax program at NYU. NYU video tapes the class and posts them online for you to watch within 24 hours (if you are taking a class that is concurrently being offered in-person and online) or you can take classes that were offered and taped in a previous semester. In either case there are online forums where the professor or other students ask and answer questions. You take the same exams as the in-person students and are graded on the same curve.

Except for going out with students after class socially, study groups, and being called on in class under the Socratic method (which we can debate the effectiveness of that), I feel like it is the same way I was educated in law school. I looked at other online LLM classes and found that they are not as upfront about the programs and don't offer the same experience when it comes to how they teach online. NYU is raw in the sense that you are watching the actual class. The experience has seemed more real to me than some of the other online programs.

There is definitely still a bias against doing a program online (mainly from those who do it in-person, and I understand that bias), but I think people need to wake up in the sense that the way we practice law is changing so why shouldn't the way we educate change. Cash cow or not to a law school, we live in a time where technology drives progress. I'm an in-house attorney for a multi-national company that has offices all over the world and I deal with the business leaders in those offices on a daily basis by way of technology. The world has changed and NYU (and other law schools) are smart to stay ahead of that. I can see a world where online education becomes more of a norm, especially in more specialized areas like a Tax LLM, which is not required to practice tax law, but is value added to an attorney's skills.
I am currently enrolled in eLLM tax program at NYU. NYU video tapes the class and posts them online for you to watch within 24 hours (if you are taking a class that is concurrently being offered in-person and online) or you can take classes that were offered and taped in a previous semester. In either case there are online forums where the professor or other students ask and answer questions. You take the same exams as the in-person students and are graded on the same curve.

Except for going out with students after class socially, study groups, and being called on in class under the Socratic method (which we can debate the effectiveness of that), I feel like it is the same way I was educated in law school. I looked at other online LLM classes and found that they are not as upfront about the programs and don't offer the same experience when it comes to how they teach online. NYU is raw in the sense that you are watching the actual class. The experience has seemed more real to me than some of the other online programs.

There is definitely still a bias against doing a program online (mainly from those who do it in-person, and I understand that bias), but I think people need to wake up in the sense that the way we practice law is changing so why shouldn't the way we educate change. Cash cow or not to a law school, we live in a time where technology drives progress. I'm an in-house attorney for a multi-national company that has offices all over the world and I deal with the business leaders in those offices on a daily basis by way of technology. The world has changed and NYU (and other law schools) are smart to stay ahead of that. I can see a world where online education becomes more of a norm, especially in more specialized areas like a Tax LLM, which is not required to practice tax law, but is value added to an attorney's skills.
quote
CSJTax
The Georgetown Executive LLM in Tax is similar to the NYU Executive LLM in Tax. You "attend" the live sessions from your computer and the videos are available for review during the semester. They are very transparent on their website about how the distance learning is conducted and they even have a sample videotaped class to view.

I am in the "live" traditional Tax LLM program (part time) and I know that they have been videotaping classes for a long time. At the end of the semester, I pulled up the videos to study for finals.
The Georgetown Executive LLM in Tax is similar to the NYU Executive LLM in Tax. You "attend" the live sessions from your computer and the videos are available for review during the semester. They are very transparent on their website about how the distance learning is conducted and they even have a sample videotaped class to view.

I am in the "live" traditional Tax LLM program (part time) and I know that they have been videotaping classes for a long time. At the end of the semester, I pulled up the videos to study for finals.
quote
I've read a review recently comparing NYU's Executive LLM in Tax and the new GULC Executive LLM in Tax. The review actually considered the GULC program to be better. The argument was that GULC designed its program based on examining the existing online programs at NYU and others and fixed some of the flaws that exist in the older programs.

I am leaning toward the GULC program. I have a call into the school to ask questions--they have been very helpful so far. I can't get through to anyone at NYU by phone.

Anyone have experience with the GULC program? I know that it's new but if anyone who currently is in the program can respond, I'd appreciate it!
I've read a review recently comparing NYU's Executive LLM in Tax and the new GULC Executive LLM in Tax. The review actually considered the GULC program to be better. The argument was that GULC designed its program based on examining the existing online programs at NYU and others and fixed some of the flaws that exist in the older programs.

I am leaning toward the GULC program. I have a call into the school to ask questions--they have been very helpful so far. I can't get through to anyone at NYU by phone.

Anyone have experience with the GULC program? I know that it's new but if anyone who currently is in the program can respond, I'd appreciate it!
quote
BrianO
The University of Alabama also has an online LLM in Taxation. I actually completed my undergrad at Alabama through the online delivery system. I lived in Atlanta at that time, but if I wanted to drive to Tuscaloosa, I still had access to all of the school's libraries, student tickets, and everything else that the school offered to traditional students. (I actually drove out to see quite a few football games). I attended on-campus courses at a college in Georgia before I transferred to Alabama and let me tell you... online courses are no easier than on-campus courses. As a matter of fact, I found that online courses take a lot more discipline and independence, so please, do not discredit that people who prefer the online delivery method to earn our degrees; there's tens of thousands of us out there and the number is rapidly growing. I actually chose Alabama over of all of the "name brand" public schools to which I had been accepted in Georgia because I am a working adult and none of the Georgia schools offered the online delivery method. I hated being in my thirties and going to school with eighteen to twenty-something year old kids. With that in mind, I realized how much that I loved the online delivery system after I took my first online course. (I had no other choice but to take a particular class that I needed online after all of the spots were full in the traditional classes, but again, that made me realize how much more I love the online delivery system).

Anyway, I am currently attending law school, but not at Alabama. Even so, I got into law school with an online degree from Alabama and not once was I ever questioned if I had taken on-campus classes. I will be a 3L in a couple of months and I absolutely intend to enroll in the online LLM program at Alabama after I graduate. Not only is Alabama one of the highest ranked public law schools in the nation, its tuition costs are substantially lower than all of the other online programs. Regardless, TCMAN was correct in the sense that many people are only being judgmental because they have never experienced the online delivery system. As TCMAN mentioned, you are viewing recordings of the exact same lectures that your classmates had seen when they attended class in person. You take the exact same exams and you are graded and held to the exact same standards. Again, there is no asterisk next to your earned courses on your transcript pointing out that you took the courses online; your transcripts simply state the courses that you took and your grades. I promise... I have both traditional courses and online courses and they look exactly the same on my transcript. In other words, you will receive the education that you deserve through the online delivery system and the only way that anyone will ever know that you did not actually physically attend class is if you tell them.

I hope that this helps anyone reading this thread and good luck!
The University of Alabama also has an online LLM in Taxation. I actually completed my undergrad at Alabama through the online delivery system. I lived in Atlanta at that time, but if I wanted to drive to Tuscaloosa, I still had access to all of the school's libraries, student tickets, and everything else that the school offered to traditional students. (I actually drove out to see quite a few football games). I attended on-campus courses at a college in Georgia before I transferred to Alabama and let me tell you... online courses are no easier than on-campus courses. As a matter of fact, I found that online courses take a lot more discipline and independence, so please, do not discredit that people who prefer the online delivery method to earn our degrees; there's tens of thousands of us out there and the number is rapidly growing. I actually chose Alabama over of all of the "name brand" public schools to which I had been accepted in Georgia because I am a working adult and none of the Georgia schools offered the online delivery method. I hated being in my thirties and going to school with eighteen to twenty-something year old kids. With that in mind, I realized how much that I loved the online delivery system after I took my first online course. (I had no other choice but to take a particular class that I needed online after all of the spots were full in the traditional classes, but again, that made me realize how much more I love the online delivery system).

Anyway, I am currently attending law school, but not at Alabama. Even so, I got into law school with an online degree from Alabama and not once was I ever questioned if I had taken on-campus classes. I will be a 3L in a couple of months and I absolutely intend to enroll in the online LLM program at Alabama after I graduate. Not only is Alabama one of the highest ranked public law schools in the nation, its tuition costs are substantially lower than all of the other online programs. Regardless, TCMAN was correct in the sense that many people are only being judgmental because they have never experienced the online delivery system. As TCMAN mentioned, you are viewing recordings of the exact same lectures that your classmates had seen when they attended class in person. You take the exact same exams and you are graded and held to the exact same standards. Again, there is no asterisk next to your earned courses on your transcript pointing out that you took the courses online; your transcripts simply state the courses that you took and your grades. I promise... I have both traditional courses and online courses and they look exactly the same on my transcript. In other words, you will receive the education that you deserve through the online delivery system and the only way that anyone will ever know that you did not actually physically attend class is if you tell them.

I hope that this helps anyone reading this thread and good luck!
quote
Hello, I am deciding between two online Master of legal Studies programs, one from NYU Law and the other one Georgetown Law Center. Does anyone here know which one is a better program? In terms of having access to Professors, interactions with your online classmates, access to libraries or sit in to classes? Basically, which school gives you a better sense of being part of a community. Any comments or insights will be appreciated
Hello, I am deciding between two online Master of legal Studies programs, one from NYU Law and the other one Georgetown Law Center. Does anyone here know which one is a better program? In terms of having access to Professors, interactions with your online classmates, access to libraries or sit in to classes? Basically, which school gives you a better sense of being part of a community. Any comments or insights will be appreciated
quote
Hello, I am deciding between two online Master of legal Studies programs, one from NYU Law and the other one Georgetown Law Center. Does anyone here know which one is a better program? In terms of having access to Professors, interactions with your online classmates, access to libraries or sit in to classes? Basically, which school gives you a better sense of being part of a community. Any comments or insights will be appreciated
Hello, I am deciding between two online Master of legal Studies programs, one from NYU Law and the other one Georgetown Law Center. Does anyone here know which one is a better program? In terms of having access to Professors, interactions with your online classmates, access to libraries or sit in to classes? Basically, which school gives you a better sense of being part of a community. Any comments or insights will be appreciated
quote
Broom778
I am currently enrolled in eLLM tax program at NYU. NYU video tapes the class and posts them online for you to watch within 24 hours (if you are taking a class that is concurrently being offered in-person and online) or you can take classes that were offered and taped in a previous semester. In either case there are online forums where the professor or other students ask and answer questions. You take the same exams as the in-person students and are graded on the same curve.

Except for going out with students after class socially, study groups, and being called on in class under the Socratic method (which we can debate the effectiveness of that), I feel like it is the same way I was educated in law school. I looked at other online LLM classes and found that they are not as upfront about the programs and don't offer the same experience when it comes to how they teach online. NYU is raw in the sense that you are watching the actual class. The experience has seemed more real to me than some of the other online programs.

There is definitely still a bias against doing a program online (mainly from those who do it in-person, and I understand that bias), but I think people need to wake up in the sense that the way we practice law is changing so why shouldn't the way we educate change. Cash cow or not to a law school, we live in a time where technology drives progress. I'm an in-house attorney for a multi-national company that has offices all over the world and I deal with the business leaders in those offices on a daily basis by way of technology. The world has changed and NYU (and other law schools) are smart to stay ahead of that. I can see a world where online education becomes more of a norm, especially in more specialized areas like a Tax LLM, which is not required to practice tax law, but is value added to an attorney's skills.
[quote]I am currently enrolled in eLLM tax program at NYU. NYU video tapes the class and posts them online for you to watch within 24 hours (if you are taking a class that is concurrently being offered in-person and online) or you can take classes that were offered and taped in a previous semester. In either case there are online forums where the professor or other students ask and answer questions. You take the same exams as the in-person students and are graded on the same curve.

Except for going out with students after class socially, study groups, and being called on in class under the Socratic method (which we can debate the effectiveness of that), I feel like it is the same way I was educated in law school. I looked at other online LLM classes and found that they are not as upfront about the programs and don't offer the same experience when it comes to how they teach online. NYU is raw in the sense that you are watching the actual class. The experience has seemed more real to me than some of the other online programs.

There is definitely still a bias against doing a program online (mainly from those who do it in-person, and I understand that bias), but I think people need to wake up in the sense that the way we practice law is changing so why shouldn't the way we educate change. Cash cow or not to a law school, we live in a time where technology drives progress. I'm an in-house attorney for a multi-national company that has offices all over the world and I deal with the business leaders in those offices on a daily basis by way of technology. The world has changed and NYU (and other law schools) are smart to stay ahead of that. I can see a world where online education becomes more of a norm, especially in more specialized areas like a Tax LLM, which is not required to practice tax law, but is value added to an attorney's skills. [/quote]
quote
gegenini
Hello,
I am french applicant but i have not background in us tax. I would liketo ask you about llm tax online programs, do you think the recruiters making a difference between residencial programs and online programs in US??(NYU,BU,GLUC)
THANKS!

[Edited by gegenini on Sep 27, 2017]

Hello,
I am french applicant but i have not background in us tax. I would liketo ask you about llm tax online programs, do you think the recruiters making a difference between residencial programs and online programs in US??(NYU,BU,GLUC)
THANKS!
quote

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