I have read this thread and please let me say that some people sound really moronic and that this snobby attitude makes sick. I am from Italy and have lived in 5 different Euoropean Countries in the course of my life. I also went to school in NY (CLS) and I dated 6 or 7 ivy league girls so I know a little bit about Europe and US schools.
1) None of the European lawyers that do an LLM are average in their home countries. All of them are far from being average.
2) Euorpean law schools where you guys graduated do not usually have an admission process. They just admit every applicant. So what makes you a non average student is your grades and not your "corporate identity" as in the US.
3) it is true that NYU admits a lot of students but it is also true that NYU offers 5 or 6 LLM specalities. So it is basically around 80 people per program (the same as other top law schools).
4) European LLM from a top law school have EXACTLY the same opportunites of getting a job both in the US and in their home countries and they will get EXACTLY the same salaries no matter if they went to NY, HLS, Columbia, Yale and so on.
5) keep in mind that the only purpose of doing and LLM in the US is a) learn english. this gives you the possibilty to work in an international environment; b) networking i.e. make connections that will be useful for the rest of your life. c) learn the american business approach. Americans are the best in business and if you want to be a business lawyer it is important to go to school there. d) an international life experience.
6) you professional success in life depends on how smart you are, how many connections you have and what kind of people you hang out with. No on how many books you have read. This "school identity" is something that does not go behind the schools walls. As soon as you graduate and you start working no one cares where you went to school. School identity only helps you getting a good job. And to this regard top 10 law schools are all the same thing.

1) Why do you think Yale accepts only 30 people and Stanford 20?

I think that this question (asked in this post) is interesting

I could add: Why does Chicago admit only 50-60 people?

2) Dont you think that an LLM program can be too big? Do you think that an LLM Program (for example at Columbia Law School) with 800 students would be a good thing?

3) Do you really think (based on your experience) that there is no difference, IN GENERAL, between a Yale/Stanford/Harvard LLM student and a LLM student at NYU?

Sorry to say that, but my experience is that, IN GENERAL, there is a difference between a Yale/Stanford/Harvard LLM student and an NYU LLM student (in terms of academic achievements and opportunities).

My experience is also that in Europe it's much easier for a Harvard/Stanford LLM graduate to find a job (especially in a top US law firm) than for a NYU/Cornell/Georgetown LLM graduate (it doesnt mean, of course, that nobody from the Cornell LLM program works for Sullivan & Cromwell in Europe).

4) Have you ever heard about JD students complaining about the invasion of foreign students in SOME law school?

5) Dont you think that LLM programs can also be a significant financial resource for SOME law schools?

I was an LLM student at HLS last year and, believe it or not, I received MUCH MORE offers than my friends enrolled at NYU. Im a little bit upset to hear (both in the US and in Europe) that LLM programs are just cash cows (but, unfortunately, I have to realize that, in some situations, its not so far from the truth) and I very much hope that HLS will never accept 450 students in its LLM program each year.

450 LLM students at NYU its almost the TOTAL number of students (all 3 year JDs and LLMs) at Yale Law School (585 students) or Stanford Law School (527 students) !!!!

Maybe in the near future, the LLM program at NYU will be bigger than the whole Yale Law School

Mozer,
1) do you think that the fact the Yale accepts 30 people means that you attend classes with 30 people? no way. It just means that you attend class with other +100 JD's. Exactly the same as CLS, Harvard or NYU. The fact that NYU admits more people doesnt mean that you attend classes with 400+ people! The number of students for classes are the same everywhere.
2) irrelevant point.
3) the difference is bw single students not bw corporate identities. In terms of success I would not say that there is a difference. As I pointed out once you go out from school your where you went doesnt matter anymore. Probably is different for undergrad. Going to Harvard, Yale can give you better connections that will help you for the rest of your life. For LLM, as you may understand, it is very different. I would say it is better to live in nyc downtown than to live in New Haven or Cambridge.
4) no. they do not consider them as competitors in the job market. in fact they are not
5) no. in most top american universities tuitions are not even 10 % of their incomes. NYU accepts more students because of its wider international vocation. It's just a school policy. Trust me they dont really need your 40K tuition.

Mozer,
You argue that you received all these amazing offers and you act so self important. Let me say that the fact that you are still writing on this LLM board after one year honestly makes me thing that you do not have that much to do....

1) Why do you think Yale accepts only 30 people and Stanford 20?

I think that this question (asked in this post) is interesting

I could add: Why does Chicago admit only 50-60 people?

2) Dont you think that an LLM program can be too big? Do you think that an LLM Program (for example at Columbia Law School) with 800 students would be a good thing?

3) Do you really think (based on your experience) that there is no difference, IN GENERAL, between a Yale/Stanford/Harvard LLM student and a LLM student at NYU?

Sorry to say that, but my experience is that, IN GENERAL, there is a difference between a Yale/Stanford/Harvard LLM student and an NYU LLM student (in terms of academic achievements and opportunities).

My experience is also that in Europe it's much easier for a Harvard/Stanford LLM graduate to find a job (especially in a top US law firm) than for a NYU/Cornell/Georgetown LLM graduate (it doesnt mean, of course, that nobody from the Cornell LLM program works for Sullivan & Cromwell in Europe).

4) Have you ever heard about JD students complaining about the invasion of foreign students in SOME law school?

5) Dont you think that LLM programs can also be a significant financial resource for SOME law schools?

I was an LLM student at HLS last year and, believe it or not, I received MUCH MORE offers than my friends enrolled at NYU. Im a little bit upset to hear (both in the US and in Europe) that LLM programs are just cash cows (but, unfortunately, I have to realize that, in some situations, its not so far from the truth) and I very much hope that HLS will never accept 450 students in its LLM program each year.

450 LLM students at NYU its almost the TOTAL number of students (all 3 year JDs and LLMs) at Yale Law School (585 students) or Stanford Law School (527 students) !!!!

Maybe in the near future, the LLM program at NYU will be bigger than the whole Yale Law School

1) Why do you think Yale accepts only 30 people and Stanford 20?

I think that this question (asked in this post) is interesting

I could add: Why does Chicago admit only 50-60 people?

2) Dont you think that an LLM program can be too big? Do you think that an LLM Program (for example at Columbia Law School) with 800 students would be a good thing?

3) Do you really think (based on your experience) that there is no difference, IN GENERAL, between a Yale/Stanford/Harvard LLM student and a LLM student at NYU?

Sorry to say that, but my experience is that, IN GENERAL, there is a difference between a Yale/Stanford/Harvard LLM student and an NYU LLM student (in terms of academic achievements and opportunities).

My experience is also that in Europe it's much easier for a Harvard/Stanford LLM graduate to find a job (especially in a top US law firm) than for a NYU/Cornell/Georgetown LLM graduate (it doesnt mean, of course, that nobody from the Cornell LLM program works for Sullivan & Cromwell in Europe).

4) Have you ever heard about JD students complaining about the invasion of foreign students in SOME law school?

5) Dont you think that LLM programs can also be a significant financial resource for SOME law schools?

I was an LLM student at HLS last year and, believe it or not, I received MUCH MORE offers than my friends enrolled at NYU. Im a little bit upset to hear (both in the US and in Europe) that LLM programs are just cash cows (but, unfortunately, I have to realize that, in some situations, its not so far from the truth) and I very much hope that HLS will never accept 450 students in its LLM program each year.

450 LLM students at NYU its almost the TOTAL number of students (all 3 year JDs and LLMs) at Yale Law School (585 students) or Stanford Law School (527 students) !!!!

Maybe in the near future, the LLM program at NYU will be bigger than the whole Yale Law School

1) Why do you think Yale accepts only 30 people and Stanford 20?

I think that this question (asked in this post) is interesting

I could add: Why does Chicago admit only 50-60 people?

2) Dont you think that an LLM program can be too big? Do you think that an LLM Program (for example at Columbia Law School) with 800 students would be a good thing?

3) Do you really think (based on your experience) that there is no difference, IN GENERAL, between a Yale/Stanford/Harvard LLM student and a LLM student at NYU?

Sorry to say that, but my experience is that, IN GENERAL, there is a difference between a Yale/Stanford/Harvard LLM student and an NYU LLM student (in terms of academic achievements and opportunities).

My experience is also that in Europe it's much easier for a Harvard/Stanford LLM graduate to find a job (especially in a top US law firm) than for a NYU/Cornell/Georgetown LLM graduate (it doesnt mean, of course, that nobody from the Cornell LLM program works for Sullivan & Cromwell in Europe).

4) Have you ever heard about JD students complaining about the invasion of foreign students in SOME law school?

5) Dont you think that LLM programs can also be a significant financial resource for SOME law schools?

I was an LLM student at HLS last year and, believe it or not, I received MUCH MORE offers than my friends enrolled at NYU. Im a little bit upset to hear (both in the US and in Europe) that LLM programs are just cash cows (but, unfortunately, I have to realize that, in some situations, its not so far from the truth) and I very much hope that HLS will never accept 450 students in its LLM program each year.

450 LLM students at NYU its almost the TOTAL number of students (all 3 year JDs and LLMs) at Yale Law School (585 students) or Stanford Law School (527 students) !!!!

Maybe in the near future, the LLM program at NYU will be bigger than the whole Yale Law School

This is the email I received from the University of Chicago when I was admitted:

"It gives me great pleasure to inform you that our Graduate Studies Committee has approved your application for the University of Chicago Law School's...

[]

I know you would find Chicago a wonderful place to pursue the LL.M. degree. Our program is small - about 50 people each year - and that creates a real sense of community among the students. We also make extra efforts to insure that LL.M. students have lots of contact with faculty and our J.D. students. Unlike many schools with substantially larger LL.M. programs, this is not a place where LL.M. students tend to isolate themselves with other students from their own country or region.

[]"

I just love the last sentence... Its so true and accurate and it comes from one of the best American law schools

This is the email I received from the University of Chicago when I was admitted:

"It gives me great pleasure to inform you that our Graduate Studies Committee has approved your application for the University of Chicago Law School's...

[]

I know you would find Chicago a wonderful place to pursue the LL.M. degree. Our program is small - about 50 people each year - and that creates a real sense of community among the students. We also make extra efforts to insure that LL.M. students have lots of contact with faculty and our J.D. students. Unlike many schools with substantially larger LL.M. programs, this is not a place where LL.M. students tend to isolate themselves with other students from their own country or region.

[]"

I just love the last sentence... Its so true and accurate and it comes from one of the best American law schools

This is a weird discussion. US News rankings matter much, yes, but its not the end-all be-all of things. Of course Harvard/Stanford/Yale have enormous prestige but I think the more important thing to look at is the fit between the student and the school, as to the field of specialization, particular faculty members, etc.

This is the email I received from the University of Chicago when I was admitted:

"It gives me great pleasure to inform you that our Graduate Studies Committee has approved your application for the University of Chicago Law School's...

[]

I know you would find Chicago a wonderful place to pursue the LL.M. degree. Our program is small - about 50 people each year - and that creates a real sense of community among the students. We also make extra efforts to insure that LL.M. students have lots of contact with faculty and our J.D. students. Unlike many schools with substantially larger LL.M. programs, this is not a place where LL.M. students tend to isolate themselves with other students from their own country or region.

[]"

I just love the last sentence... Its so true and accurate and it comes from one of the best American law schools

[...] and in my home country (Germany), NUY graduates have more and more difficulties finding a job following the completion of their LLM.

Do you really think that Im the only one (or the first) to complain about the size of the LLM program at NYU?

I dont care about NYU. I am just sick of hearing that LLM programs in the US are cash cows and supermarkets (sorry to say that, but the example given is always NYU).

Outside the US, LLM programs are sometimes seen as a homogeneous group (especially by people/lawyers who never went to the US). For this and many other reasons, each LLM program has an impact on the others. It seems to me that everyone could agree on that.

If NYU continues to increase the size of its LLM program (with 500, 600 or 700 students each year), it will have an impact on every LLM students in the US. So I think that it's a legitimate concern for everybody (As you may know, in addition to its 450 students in New York, NYU has just launched a new LLM degree in Singapore with 70-100 students).

Do you want NYU to deliver more LLM degrees than all top 10 American law schools combined?

Asking this question is not an insult. Some of my friends who graduated from NYU share this concern. Basically, it raises the question of the kind of model we want for US LLM in the near future.

I know you are talking about the LLM in particular at NYU, but overall, the sizes of the law schools at NYU and HLS don't appear to be that different (although Yale and Stanford are smaller). The student-faculty ratio, and class sizes are quite similar at NYU and HLS. I don't really see what the fuss is about.

See http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/webextras/brief/sb_law_size_brief.php

Caution everybody. It seems Mozer was right. I have heard from reliable sources that NYU is planning to admit 3,500 LL.M. students for 2008/2009, making it the biggest ever LL.M. program on this planet. NYU will deliver more LLM degrees than the top 150 American law schools combined. Major law firms are expressing concern on the decrease of the market value of an LL.M. degree, and fear a "widespread invasion of mediocre graduates".
DO NOT go to NYU!!!!! It's hardly a law school, more like a supermarket.

Oh and Mozer. My congratulations on your acceptance at Chicago. It is such a superior achievement! I cannot say I know anyone who had this honour. I also liked that last sentence in the acceptance letter - it shows they treat us like the geniuses we (or, rather, you) are.

Ayzar,
you are such a loser..

I posed the class-size question to the nyu admissions office on the day its official on-line discussion was held:

Joe: Admissions Office, some people criticize that the large number of LLM students matriculated at NYU Law School largely lowers NYU Law admission standard. What's your comment?

Graduate Admissions4: Joe, we receive over 2000 applications each year, and our admitted students have very strong academic records and are generally ranked at the top of their class. The strength in the large size of our class is twofold: there is great geographical diversity in our classrooms which makes for a better academic experience, and our alumni are all over the world, which is a great benefit to our students professionally.

The original version can be found on nyu admitted students webpage.

NYU's Int'l Legal Studies program accepts around 60 students each year, a size very much comparable to the other schools being discussed.

So, NYU is not so much a supermarket, but more like an international law firm, with the benefit of specialized and insulated practice groups, that have the benefit of drawing on the experience, expertise, and talents of individuals outside of their specialization, but under the same firm umbrella.

Stop hating, and be confident in your choices.

I belong to a program (Int´l Tax) that accepts less than 30 students every year (average number of applicants every year: 300-350), and most of the applicants are top-notch, as NYU is #1 in this field. Indeed, the Tax/ Int´l tax program is absolutely independent from the other LLM specializations.