NYU or LSE? Constitutional Law, Human Rights and Alternate Dispute Resolution. Basically Public Law. I would also be interested in knowing which college to choose overall, as in with no particular reference to any course/subject.

Parameters:
1) Course
2) Professors
3) Reputation (in general, not for any particular course)
4) Cost effective (NYU is more expensive by about 25,000 USD, which I think is prohibitive!)
5) Future prospects
6) London v. NY
7) Overall experience
8) Sporting culture ( I would be very interested to know this as well!)

Anything else that comes to your mind? Anyone else facing a similar dilemma at this point in time?

I am sure most of us are waiting to hear from the other colleges, this is just food for thought.

Both are great, it depends on what you want from the degree and from the year.

Fe. if you're European you might want to consider the US because it would be a greater experience.

depends on ur goal of getting an LLM degree.

If u really value NY bar qualification, or, rather, NYU bar qualification really adds value to ur career, and if that money to be saved if attending LSE means no big deal to u, I would say go do NYU.

But the problem is NY bar qualification has already been deprerciating in its value or prestige. Nearly every LLM working hard for it for 2 months can pass it. Thus NY bar has become no big deal these days. These days to break into big law for a LLM has beocome extremely difficult. Those who have make it r those having already worked for big law or leading law firms in thier home jurisdictions, most of them of lucrative emerging markets like China, India, and Russia.

Under such circumstances, LSE as a much economical choice is very attractive. Not to mention that if ur future careeer goal is to work for government, NGO, then LSE is a no brainer choice here.

At least in China, LSE exerted a very huge and wide influence in the central government. In some core ministries such as Ministry of Commerce and Ministry of Foreign Affairs, these ministies nearly have become alumni clubs of LSE.

It also should be born in mind that in general LSE has better reputation than NYU. LSE is second only to Oxford and Cabridge in the UK, while NYU, beyond law school, is just a city college, with its general ranking as out of 30s.

one thing to add:
if u wanna pursue doctor degree in the future, u should choose LSE, as LSE enrolls much more Ph.D candidates annually than NYU does. Therefore, the competition is less fierce.

Not to mention LSE's program is much smaller than NYU too, which means u can get more attention from professors. And this is vital for academics.

If u get a LSE Phd, u can easily land a associate or assistant professor job in Hong Kong law schools with a starting yearly salary of 90,000USD.

Wow. 90,0000 USD starting. No kidding. Go for LSE then. I regret doing LLM during these times. There are no jobs in USA rt now and am down by 70K. Can use that 90K for sure.

Mr. Tendulkar, there should be no room for doubt. Go for NYU. I think the driving force in choosing a college should be the faculty. And NYU dwarfs LSE in that department big time. You have the world's best at NYU. You will be learning from intellectual giants like Ronald Dworkin. You seem to be interested in human rights. I would like to bring to your attention that Jeremy Waldron is now a full time professor at NYU. Any law student who has read his white paper on torture law and human rights would die to study under him. Also, there is nothing like US Constitutional Law for someone interested in public law. LSE has Conor Gearty but with all due respect, I believe that the faculty at NYU is better.

If you want to do an LL.M. and have decided to come to a foreign country, then why not go the whole hog and stop worrying about money (only if its not a major problem). When it comes to sports, NYU will have atheletics, american rugby and of course basketball.

There would be a serious problem if you were interested in corporate and securities law. Still there, I believe that NYU is good because of its linkages with the Stern School of Business. When it comes to Constitutional Law, Human Rights..NYU wins hands down.

American legal education is perhaps the best in the world.

PS..I am neither American nor do I have any affinity with NYU..This is just from what I know.

As I have already said in other threads, don't pay too much attention to specific professors.

first of all, u can't guarantee u can succeed in signing up for those star-professors' course

Second, u a just doing a course-work LLM, not even a Mphil which require wrting a thesis under some professor's supervision, and thus which professor is teaching u a course of Human rights or corporation law doesn't much matter. Any competent professors in a world-leading law school would provide u with a cutting-edge bibliography to let u learn the best knowlege in that specific field of law studies.

Third, when u do job hunting, do u think recruitment managers would pay attention to which professors you have chosen to take a course under?------very likely, if not definitely, not.

I'm not sure which one you should choose but I'll add two things. First, being in a larger program doesn't mean you'll get less attention from professors. That's just a myth. At NYU you can sign up to seminars, and some of these seminars will actually have less than 10 people in class (!) So you'll get all the attention in the world. In classes too nothing prevents you from talking to the professor after class or in his/her walk-in hours. There's no lack of attention.

As to corporate/securities law, NYU has Former Chancellor to Delaware court Bill Allen, it has professors like Kahan, G. Miller, Rosenfeld and Stephen Choi. So it's probably one of the leading programs in the states. And recruiters do pay attention to these names, especially judges from Delaware court who wrote the major opinions in what they're interested.

NYU is one of the better schools in the US no doubt. I do have a couple of friends who provided me feedback suggesting that you tend to get lost in NYU sometimes (though, to be sure, the same allegation can be levelled at any school with a large intake like NYU's), but to be fair, I think mnementh is probably right in that if you pick and choose seminars that you're interested in (and that may not resonate with others), you might very well get the personal attention that is useful for your development. Between LSE, and NYU, I'd definitely go for the latter, but I would also say that much of it depends on where you see yourself immediately after your LLM - e.g. if it is Magic Circle, and they value a UK education more, you should go to LSE, but if it is a US professional job, between LSE and NYU, you probably can't go wrong with the latter

Interesting views thus far, I hope to hear more from you as also from more people as I am putting forth my plans hereinbelow.

I am a final year student from India. My endeavour is to return to India and give a shot to independent counsel practice (barrister/attorney). I am not necessarily looking at the LLM as a spring board which would enable me to work abroad (at least at this point in time). That's one reason why I want to be extremely careful before spending astronomical amounts for my LLM. Its my back up if I eventually decide to take up firm practice. Therefore, I want to go to a college where I can learn, not just about law but just learn in general. It must be a holistic experience which helps me to broaden my mental horizons without any compromise whatsoever with regard to academics. But naturally, I would also want to go to a school which will get me superior job opportunities, I may want to work upfront for six months to a year to earn some money to compensate for the LLM damages! Sport is also a big attraction for me, Id love to play competitive cricket in the UK. On a lighter note, do any Americans here know anything about cricket?

Interesting views thus far, I hope to hear more from you as also from more people as I am putting forth my plans hereinbelow.

I am a final year student from India. My endeavour is to return to India and give a shot to independent counsel practice (barrister/attorney). I am not necessarily looking at the LLM as a spring board which would enable me to work abroad (at least at this point in time). That's one reason why I want to be extremely careful before spending astronomical amounts for my LLM. Its my back up if I eventually decide to take up firm practice. Therefore, I want to go to a college where I can learn, not just about law but just learn in general. It must be a holistic experience which helps me to broaden my mental horizons without any compromise whatsoever with regard to academics. But naturally, I would also want to go to a school which will get me superior job opportunities, I may want to work upfront for six months to a year to earn some money to compensate for the LLM damages! Sport is also a big attraction for me, Id love to play competitive cricket in the UK. On a lighter note, do any Americans here know anything about cricket?

Intelligent post above mine here :)

If I were you, I would consider LSE. It's a great university, and the investment into NYU might not be worth it in your case.

I tend to agree with Mav09, not necessarily that an LLM is not for you, but if the aim is to break into the Indian market, you first have to ask yourself how relevant an LLM from either NYU or LSE will be. Of course, it might very well be that a check with many litigation partners in India suggests that an LLM is crucial (at which point of time the question between LSE and NYU becomes more important) but I suspect like what Mav09 states that there is a premium less on academic studies overseas but on litigation knowhow and experience. Doing litigation for a few years before doing an LLM (assuming it is useful) would also be good in another way: having a few years of practice under your belt, particularly if it allows you to obtain useful cutting edge and practical experience, would make your application to many of the top universities in the US (HLS, SLS, YLS etc etc etc) and UK (Oxbridge) that you don't seem to have considered yet plausible.

All that said and done, what you decide to do should depend on what is important in the Indian legal system and on that I have no knowledge. Hope this sheds some light in some way!

if you just wanna go back to india with a "brand - name" university, and money is no option, go to NYU.

May make sense to go to LSE for Commonwealth connections. Also London or New York offer different cultural experience. Both schools are great. Difficult to compare really...

If you have $ 70K + to spend on a brand name, go for it.

But if you are considering getting even 10% of it back, forget it. There ain't no jobs for LLMs or even JDs for that matter right now.

Is brand LSE or brand NYU worth US$ 70,000 in your part of the world??

As for cricket, you can get your entire team sponsored in rural India for that money (just kidding :-)

Consider all pros and cons and dont live in fools paradise when you take such huge financially risky decision.

@Tendulkar,
I totally understand what you meant when you outlined your reasons for doing an LL.M. I am in a somewhat similar boat... I'm a final year student from India and I hold offers from NYU and LSE. You still seem more focused than me. At least you know that you want to get into litigation! I'm not so sure myself. But I feel that one cannot underestimate the significance of the foreign education experience. It is about broadening your horizons and putting yourself in different surroundings and experiencing what all is out there.

I understand the monetary concerns (I share them too and will in all likelihood reject NYU for that reason!), but not everything needs to be quantified and valued in monetary terms. Education can be nothing but enriching, and here we are talking of world class universities, both of which are excellent in their own right. Frankly however, I don't think that in times such as these, spending an outrageous amount on NYU would be worth it, when you could get an excellent experience at LSE for far lesser. I also doubt that after spending a year at LSE you would regret not having taken up NYU!

Both are great schools; however, LSE's law school is not well known in the U.S. and, therefore, does not have much of a reputation here. Therefore, NYU wins hands-down in the U.S. If, however, you were earning an economics or related degree, LSE would win hands-down.

@ D10

I intended to post much earlier, but was caught up with work. Yes, I am pretty much sure about what I want to do in the immediate future. I've worked with a Criminal Defense Attorney for a year and a half followed by a stint with one of the finest litigation firms in India for just under 3 years. My aggregate work experience is about 4 odd years. Right from the time I joined law, my ultimate endeavour was to take up counsel practice. I therefore took keen interest in mooting also and had a fair amount of success at the national level.

I cannot understand how people can rate "procedure" over knowledge. I mean I will certainly want to work under the tutelage of an eminent counsel and try to learn the tricks of the trade, but that's a long drawn affair. I know that I intend to work with a senior counsel for about 6-8 years at least. Why does one read books? Why does one read the newspaper? Why does one watch quality movies and plays? Why does only play sport? It's to tingle the intellect, make oneself more responsible, to make one think and to improve the quality of life. LLM is that sort of an activity for me and nothing else at the moment. In fact very few people have the ability to treat their LLM as a "treat" without being bogged down due to the immense financial burden, and I am one amongst the privileged ones and I thank god and my parents for that.

Senior partners of my workplace as well as several Senior Counsels with whom I have worked extensively (most of whom are Harvard, Cambridge, NYU and London Law School graduates) have told me that this is the BEST EXPERIENCE a counsel can have before embarking on the profession. This will enable me to achieve independence of thought as well as spirit. In fact someone whom I admire very much has done a double LLM (Cambridge and NYU) and has told me how wonderful it was to "let himself loose" and just absorb as much as he could from the experience. He once told me that HE DOES NOT use anything (he studied international law) that he grasped from his courses in day to day counsel practice. But the experience has helped him IMMENSELY in an intangible manner. in not only dealing with the law, but also dealing with life. So be rest assured that it's going to be wonderful at any of these schools. I don't see myself as a pedantic geek or a pragmatic lad being concerned with only knowledge or only results/money respectively.

You are absolutely right when you say everything can't be quantified by money, in fact if that would have been the case, I would have taken up only subject like Corporate Governance, Securities Law, Taxation and the like which are lucrative fields even back home.

My interest lies in Constitutional Law, Human Rights, Jurisprudence and ADR/IP.

I found it equally amusing when I read certain posts which asked me to reconsider my LLM only because ultimately I wanted to do counsel practice. I believe that I'd much rather follow my heart and the counsel of eminent luminaries in the profession with regard to my option of doing an LLM.

The LLM for me is going to be an experience. It would be my dream to play at Lords! (just in case people don't know, the LSE team uses the Lords indoor stadium to practice). So while one can make fun of the fact that cricket is important to me, I couldn't care less about what others think. And for the people who are ignorant about this fact, Mr. Fredun Devitre, leading Senior Counsel practicing at the Bombay High Court and The Supreme Court of India used to commentate on national television as well as on radio on the game of cricket. He is a huge fan of the game and cricket to him does not mean mere dilettantism, he still finds time to write on the game as well. So too many boats argument does not find favour with me, if fact I would say if you intend to sail only on one boat there are chances what you'd not sail too far.

This is slightly digressing the original post, as it was limited only to the comparison of the two colleges, I must mention that you also must not compromise on the place that you want to go to (given you have the finances).

@ yasmin
Thanks for your concern, I did consider doing an LLM after 3-4 years of work after my law degree, but in Mumbai, I've been working with a law firm for just under 3 years (about 10-12 hours a day) and I am more or less certain at this point in time that I want to try my hand at civil litigation. It would be difficult to leave everything in India and pursue a course abroad a little later. I am sure you would appreciate that.

@D 10, have you not applied to Oxbridge, CLS and HLS. Where are you from in India??

The results of all the 4 schools would be out either by the end of this week and most certainly (I guess :D) by the end of the next week! So all the best to all of you who are waiting!!!!

Keep checking your emails!! :D

And also, I don't for a single moment wish to make this forum a place for "personal arguments". I just decided to write a detailed post as a myriad of thoughts were running through my mind when I read some of the posts.

I still need help on which law school to choose??!!