NYU General (and hopefully most popular) Notice Board


New Yorker

Hi to all applicants to NYU LL.M. programms. I know, it is a hard time when all of us are waiting for admission letters from this great law school.
I think we are in a sort of information vacuum, all waiting for March or April and don't know what to expect.
That's why I would like to launch this NUY general (and hopefully most popular) notice board. Let's share the news, share who we are, when we applied, whether we've got notification or acceptance letters from NUY, whether we applied for any scholarships, to which LLM sub-programms we applied, as well as any other information that might be useful for all of us (for example, whether NYU is persoannly better for you than Columbia or Yale or Stanford or Harvard and why). So, let's discuss all kinds of questions related to out future education in the states, with a focus on NYU however.

The reason for this notice board, as I said, is to avoid this information vacuum, as well as to start getting know each other, start networking, since I hope many of us will be studying together next year.

So, I will start. I've applied to LLM in General Legal Studies, as well as for Hauser Global Scholarship. No decision yet, however, I've got the letter from NYU that my application package have been completed and will be reviewed. I've got it a few days ado. Why NYU - that's the best Law School in the States in terms of courses, professors, location and further career opportunities wherever you will next go.

I wish you all good luck with your applications, and hope to hear from all of you. I also hope that this board will be the most popular one, and we'll get a lot of useful information here.

Cheers,

New Yorker (... hopefully... :)

Hi to all applicants to NYU LL.M. programms. I know, it is a hard time when all of us are waiting for admission letters from this great law school.
I think we are in a sort of information vacuum, all waiting for March or April and don't know what to expect.
That's why I would like to launch this NUY general (and hopefully most popular) notice board. Let's share the news, share who we are, when we applied, whether we've got notification or acceptance letters from NUY, whether we applied for any scholarships, to which LLM sub-programms we applied, as well as any other information that might be useful for all of us (for example, whether NYU is persoannly better for you than Columbia or Yale or Stanford or Harvard and why). So, let's discuss all kinds of questions related to out future education in the states, with a focus on NYU however.

The reason for this notice board, as I said, is to avoid this information vacuum, as well as to start getting know each other, start networking, since I hope many of us will be studying together next year.

So, I will start. I've applied to LLM in General Legal Studies, as well as for Hauser Global Scholarship. No decision yet, however, I've got the letter from NYU that my application package have been completed and will be reviewed. I've got it a few days ado. Why NYU - that's the best Law School in the States in terms of courses, professors, location and further career opportunities wherever you will next go.

I wish you all good luck with your applications, and hope to hear from all of you. I also hope that this board will be the most popular one, and we'll get a lot of useful information here.

Cheers,

New Yorker (... hopefully... :)
quote
New Yorker

By the way, does anybody know when the tuition fees for LLM programm are due at NYU: April, May, June, July, August?

Thanks.

New Y:o)rker

By the way, does anybody know when the tuition fees for LLM programm are due at NYU: April, May, June, July, August?

Thanks.

New Y:o)rker
quote
New Yorker

I just want to add something.

I've seen that professors and even Vice-Deans of the Law Schools (for example, from NUS) participated in discussions on notice boards and provided very valuable comments and answers.

I would like to say that professors and academic staff from NYU Law School are more than welcome to participate in our disccussions. Honestly, we really need your answers and participation and would be glad to hear from you.

Thanks.

New Y:o)rker

I just want to add something.

I've seen that professors and even Vice-Deans of the Law Schools (for example, from NUS) participated in discussions on notice boards and provided very valuable comments and answers.

I would like to say that professors and academic staff from NYU Law School are more than welcome to participate in our disccussions. Honestly, we really need your answers and participation and would be glad to hear from you.

Thanks.

New Y:o)rker
quote
New Yorker

The question was asked by KEYSER SOZE:

Hi all, what whould you choose between Chicago and NYU?

I know that Chicago is a small LLM (50 pers) which is in my view an advantage. In student quality ranking, it's as good as Stanford or Harvard, same for cleckships, etc... And NYU is far too big (450 LLM students)...

But on the other hand, NYU is better ranked on US News, and is closer to NY firms.

Your opinion?

*********************

Any thoughts quys???

Actually, I would personally go to NYU. The reason is that I don't know anything about Chicago Law School (so, any thoughts are welcome from those who knows a lot about this school); I also know that Corporate LLM is one of the best in NYU; the career service is excellent, it's really superb; NYU has its job fair; it's easier to go to interview living in NYC than in Chicago; when getting an LLM (not JD) guys from the law firms are more reluctant to hire people from universities that are not in the list of 5 top (Yale, HRVD, STNFRD, CLMB and NYU); I know that Chicago is amazing, but NYC is the best in terms of socializing and spending the great time there.

Any other thoughts (especially from Chicago defence side are welcome).

Thanks.

New Y:o)rker

The question was asked by KEYSER SOZE:

Hi all, what whould you choose between Chicago and NYU?

I know that Chicago is a small LLM (50 pers) which is in my view an advantage. In student quality ranking, it's as good as Stanford or Harvard, same for cleckships, etc... And NYU is far too big (450 LLM students)...

But on the other hand, NYU is better ranked on US News, and is closer to NY firms.

Your opinion?

*********************

Any thoughts quys???

Actually, I would personally go to NYU. The reason is that I don't know anything about Chicago Law School (so, any thoughts are welcome from those who knows a lot about this school); I also know that Corporate LLM is one of the best in NYU; the career service is excellent, it's really superb; NYU has its job fair; it's easier to go to interview living in NYC than in Chicago; when getting an LLM (not JD) guys from the law firms are more reluctant to hire people from universities that are not in the list of 5 top (Yale, HRVD, STNFRD, CLMB and NYU); I know that Chicago is amazing, but NYC is the best in terms of socializing and spending the great time there.

Any other thoughts (especially from Chicago defence side are welcome).

Thanks.

New Y:o)rker


quote
New Yorker

Another question was aksed by llm2007app

:Does anyone know what the acceptance rates are for NYU and Columbia? NYU's web site says they received approximately 2000 applications for a class of 425 students. Obviously, their acceptance rate is at least 20%, but does anyone know anything more? Same question for Columbia.

Here is the answer:

Columbia acceptance rate: 14.6% (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/directory/dir-law/brief/glanc_03104_brief.php)

NYU acceptance rate: 21% (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/directory/dir-law/brief/glanc_03110_brief.php)

So, it looks like it easier to get to NYU :)

Have a good day.

New Y:o)rker

Another question was aksed by llm2007app

:Does anyone know what the acceptance rates are for NYU and Columbia? NYU's web site says they received approximately 2000 applications for a class of 425 students. Obviously, their acceptance rate is at least 20%, but does anyone know anything more? Same question for Columbia.

Here is the answer:

Columbia acceptance rate: 14.6% (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/directory/dir-law/brief/glanc_03104_brief.php)

NYU acceptance rate: 21% (http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/grad/directory/dir-law/brief/glanc_03110_brief.php)

So, it looks like it easier to get to NYU :)

Have a good day.

New Y:o)rker

quote
masterofla...

Those are acceptance rates for their JD Programs - I dont think anyone covers the stats for LLM Programs - so really one has to base a decision on reputation of college in your country + borrowed info -- which may be untrue sometimes (such as what we get occassionally on this site - say what?)

For Corporate Law I would consider the following order (based on the information/misinformation I hv received over the course of the last yr):

Harvard ≥ Columbia ≥ NYU ≥ Upenn ≥ Chicago

Most likely I am heading for Columbia - unless One-L gives me a call :))

BUT 1 Q for Ex CLS Grads/current students & those in the know: Is the housing situation - the lottery and all at CLS due to insufficient housing for all incoming LLM students -- does it actually leave ppl stranded at the last minute.

Is getting university acco at CLS, generally speaking, the norm or the exception? Thanx

Those are acceptance rates for their JD Programs - I dont think anyone covers the stats for LLM Programs - so really one has to base a decision on reputation of college in your country + borrowed info -- which may be untrue sometimes (such as what we get occassionally on this site - say what?)

For Corporate Law I would consider the following order (based on the information/misinformation I hv received over the course of the last yr):

Harvard ≥ Columbia ≥ NYU ≥ Upenn ≥ Chicago

Most likely I am heading for Columbia - unless One-L gives me a call :))

BUT 1 Q for Ex CLS Grads/current students & those in the know: Is the housing situation - the lottery and all at CLS due to insufficient housing for all incoming LLM students -- does it actually leave ppl stranded at the last minute.

Is getting university acco at CLS, generally speaking, the norm or the exception? Thanx
quote
masterofla...

Oops sorry New Yorker - didnt realize the thread was "NYU" specific (damn I should wear glasses) - Maybe we could discuss CLS issues as well, since NYU and CLS are both in New York

Just drop me a PM n I will clear the post if its really NYU-only

Oops sorry New Yorker - didnt realize the thread was "NYU" specific (damn I should wear glasses) - Maybe we could discuss CLS issues as well, since NYU and CLS are both in New York

Just drop me a PM n I will clear the post if its really NYU-only
quote
ivan2006

By the way, does anybody know when the tuition fees for LLM programm are due at NYU: April, May, June, July, August?

Thanks.

New Y:o)rker


I guess we were supposed to pay for the tuition in late July/ early August. Apart from that, take into account that the housing fees (if you stay at Mercer or D´Agostino) are due in August (Fall term) and January (Spring term). Good luck in your application process!

<blockquote>By the way, does anybody know when the tuition fees for LLM programm are due at NYU: April, May, June, July, August?

Thanks.

New Y:o)rker</blockquote>

I guess we were supposed to pay for the tuition in late July/ early August. Apart from that, take into account that the housing fees (if you stay at Mercer or D´Agostino) are due in August (Fall term) and January (Spring term). Good luck in your application process!
quote
New Yorker

Master of Laws, thank you for your posts. Here are my thoughts:

Those are acceptance rates for their JD Programs - I dont think anyone covers the stats for LLM Programs


I knew that it would be the answer to my post, and I think you are right. These figures are for JD. However, NYU site says that the Law School received nearly 2,000 applications for full-time programs for a class of about 425 students in 2006. That's exactly 21% which was reflected on www.usnews.com. May be the figure for Columbia is also correct for LLM applicants.

For Corporate Law I would consider the following order (based on the information/misinformation I hv received over the course of the last yr):

Harvard ≥ Columbia ≥ NYU ≥ Upenn ≥ Chicago

Most likely I am heading for Columbia - unless One-L gives me a call :))


Actually, I applied to both NYU and Columbia, so the decision will depend of course on the admission, and whether any of these two will give me a scholarship, at least full or partial tuition waiver. In case of no scholarship, I will be really considering both options.

I have not applied to Harvard, since I personally prefer to stay in New York, however, I agree with you that it is the best for Corporate Law -- in terms of career prospectives the firms like Harvard (law firms, and especially investment banks). So, good luck with One-L.

BUT 1 Q for Ex CLS Grads/current students & those in the know: Is the housing situation - the lottery and all at CLS due to insufficient housing for all incoming LLM students -- does it actually leave ppl stranded at the last minute.

Is getting university acco at CLS, generally speaking, the norm or the exception? Thanx


I don't know about the situation with accomodation at CLS, I just know that there is no such problem at NYU. My friends were really satisfied with accomodation there (may be except for the fees) -- it is close to the Law School and apartments are nice.

As to you second post, actually, I was considering initially to discuss both NYU and CLS here, since I've applied to both and they are really similar in terms of many criteria. So, I THINK IT'S GOOD IDEA TO CONSIDER THESE TWO SCHOOLS IN THIS FORUM AND I INVITE ALL TO DO THIS.

By the way, where are you from Master of Laws and to which programm you've applied.

Thanks for your input once again.

Cheers,

New Y:o)rker

Master of Laws, thank you for your posts. Here are my thoughts:

<blockquote> Those are acceptance rates for their JD Programs - I dont think anyone covers the stats for LLM Programs </blockquote>

I knew that it would be the answer to my post, and I think you are right. These figures are for JD. However, NYU site says that the Law School received nearly 2,000 applications for full-time programs for a class of about 425 students in 2006. That's exactly 21% which was reflected on www.usnews.com. May be the figure for Columbia is also correct for LLM applicants.

<blockquote> For Corporate Law I would consider the following order (based on the information/misinformation I hv received over the course of the last yr):

Harvard ≥ Columbia ≥ NYU ≥ Upenn ≥ Chicago

Most likely I am heading for Columbia - unless One-L gives me a call :)) </blockquote>

Actually, I applied to both NYU and Columbia, so the decision will depend of course on the admission, and whether any of these two will give me a scholarship, at least full or partial tuition waiver. In case of no scholarship, I will be really considering both options.

I have not applied to Harvard, since I personally prefer to stay in New York, however, I agree with you that it is the best for Corporate Law -- in terms of career prospectives the firms like Harvard (law firms, and especially investment banks). So, good luck with One-L.

<blockquote> BUT 1 Q for Ex CLS Grads/current students & those in the know: Is the housing situation - the lottery and all at CLS due to insufficient housing for all incoming LLM students -- does it actually leave ppl stranded at the last minute.

Is getting university acco at CLS, generally speaking, the norm or the exception? Thanx
</blockquote>

I don't know about the situation with accomodation at CLS, I just know that there is no such problem at NYU. My friends were really satisfied with accomodation there (may be except for the fees) -- it is close to the Law School and apartments are nice.

As to you second post, actually, I was considering initially to discuss both NYU and CLS here, since I've applied to both and they are really similar in terms of many criteria. So, I THINK IT'S GOOD IDEA TO CONSIDER THESE TWO SCHOOLS IN THIS FORUM AND I INVITE ALL TO DO THIS.

By the way, where are you from Master of Laws and to which programm you've applied.

Thanks for your input once again.

Cheers,

New Y:o)rker
quote
New Yorker

By the way, does anybody know when the tuition fees for LLM programm are due at NYU: April, May, June, July, August?

Thanks.

New Y:o)rker


I guess we were supposed to pay for the tuition in late July/ early August. Apart from that, take into account that the housing fees (if you stay at Mercer or D´Agostino) are due in August (Fall term) and January (Spring term). Good luck in your application process!


Thanks ivan, that's really helpful, as well as your blog.

Cheers,

New Y:o)rker

<blockquote><blockquote>By the way, does anybody know when the tuition fees for LLM programm are due at NYU: April, May, June, July, August?

Thanks.

New Y:o)rker</blockquote>

I guess we were supposed to pay for the tuition in late July/ early August. Apart from that, take into account that the housing fees (if you stay at Mercer or D´Agostino) are due in August (Fall term) and January (Spring term). Good luck in your application process!</blockquote>

Thanks ivan, that's really helpful, as well as your blog.

Cheers,

New Y:o)rker
quote
Yps

"Actually, I would personally go to NYU. The reason is that I don't know anything about Chicago Law School (so, any thoughts are welcome from those who knows a lot about this school); I also know that Corporate LLM is one of the best in NYU; the career service is excellent, it's really superb; NYU has its job fair; it's easier to go to interview living in NYC than in Chicago; when getting an LLM (not JD) guys from the law firms are more reluctant to hire people from universities that are not in the list of 5 top (Yale, HRVD, STNFRD, CLMB and NYU); I know that Chicago is amazing, but NYC is the best in terms of socializing and spending the great time there.

Any other thoughts (especially from Chicago defence side are welcome)."

Here some thoughts on that:
First of all: I am biased, as I am in Chicago right now.

Chicago participates in the Columbia Job Fair which includes Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Stanford, Michigan, Chicago and Virginia. From what Ive heard from employers, this is the more valued job fair (this is what I have HEARD, I cant personally comment on that, so please dont take it as an attempt of insult or whatever). Several law firm partners told me that the quality of NYU LL.M.s is not always 100% satisfactory if you take in 450 LL.M.s, you cant be too selective. Furthermore, NYU is for many - not for all, and strongly depending on special interests just a safe bet. I think that almost all of the LL.M.s in Chicago were admitted to NYU and many to Columbia and still chose Chicago (I only think as I did not speak to all about that; those I spoke to were at least admitted to NYU).
And to refer to the US News Ranking in saying that employers just consider the top five is not a very convincing argument. First, most people agree that Chicagos rank in the US News Ranking is significantly to low. However, I do not want to dive into a ranking discussion. But keep that in mind when you guess about employers interests. And that is it a guess, or did you speak to employers? The JDs from Chicago and many of the LL.M.s who want to have a job in New York get a job in the Big Apple. Chicago has a strong reputation for its rigorous course program the quarter system quickens the pace and you have to make more credits than in any other law school. All of the classes are small and, additionally, you get into all the classes you want. I heard differently with respect to Columbia, but this is hearsay as I obviously dont have experienced Columbia on my own.
If you want to do corporate law, Chicago is a great place to do that. Not only that you have the main classes you will (more or less) enjoy everywhere, there a lot of seminars on a wide variety of corporate or securities related topics. Generally, Chicago has great professors. Furthermore, if you are interested in some background information on modern corporate and securities law, you have to get a sense of law and economics. And there is no better place to do that in the US than in Chicago, the cradle of law and economics, classical as well as modern behavioral law and econ. (Richard Posner, Easterbrook, Sunstein, Baird, Epstein, Picker you name it). And the business school is just 5min from the law school, so if you are interested in taking classes with a nobel prize laureate (e.g. Gary Becker), this is your opportunity.
With respect to taking the New York bar: Chicago has a great passage rate. Furthermore, face reality: Preparing the bar means Barbri. And if you do the Barbri course in NY or in Chicago doesnt matter a bit. It is just sitting on you lower back and trying to put as many details in your head as possible. This is not a matter of law school, but a matter of your own discipline.
If you want to look for a job in NY: for sure, there is an obvious advantage to live in NYC. However, flights to NY from Chicago are cheap (I paid around 100 bucks to get there and to come back).
In terms of socialising: I know all of the people in my program and this is great. And you actually get to know JDs. For me, this is quite important about my time in the US, as I am here to speak with those whose first language is English. I doubt this will be as easy in the NY schools. Especially if you have extra classes for LL.M.s.

This was quite a bit, so Ill stop.

Whatever school you will choose in the end, you will have a great year.

Cheers,

Yps.

"Actually, I would personally go to NYU. The reason is that I don't know anything about Chicago Law School (so, any thoughts are welcome from those who knows a lot about this school); I also know that Corporate LLM is one of the best in NYU; the career service is excellent, it's really superb; NYU has its job fair; it's easier to go to interview living in NYC than in Chicago; when getting an LLM (not JD) guys from the law firms are more reluctant to hire people from universities that are not in the list of 5 top (Yale, HRVD, STNFRD, CLMB and NYU); I know that Chicago is amazing, but NYC is the best in terms of socializing and spending the great time there.

Any other thoughts (especially from Chicago defence side are welcome)."

Here some thoughts on that:
First of all: I am biased, as I am in Chicago right now.

Chicago participates in the Columbia Job Fair which includes Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Stanford, Michigan, Chicago and Virginia. From what I’ve heard from employers, this is the more valued job fair (this is what I have HEARD, I can’t personally comment on that, so please don’t take it as an attempt of insult or whatever). Several law firm partners told me that the quality of NYU LL.M.s is not always 100% satisfactory – if you take in 450 LL.M.s, you can’t be too selective. Furthermore, NYU is for many - not for all, and strongly depending on special interests – just a “safe bet”. I think that almost all of the LL.M.s in Chicago were admitted to NYU and many to Columbia and still chose Chicago (I only think as I did not speak to all about that; those I spoke to were at least admitted to NYU).
And to refer to the US News Ranking in saying that employers just consider the top five is not a very convincing argument. First, most people agree that Chicago’s rank in the US News Ranking is significantly to low. However, I do not want to dive into a ranking discussion. But keep that in mind when you guess about employer’s interests. And that is it – a guess, or did you speak to employers? The JDs from Chicago and many of the LL.M.s who want to have a job in New York get a job in the Big Apple. Chicago has a strong reputation for its rigorous course program – the quarter system quickens the pace and you have to make more credits than in any other law school. All of the classes are small and, additionally, you get into all the classes you want. I heard differently with respect to Columbia, but this is hearsay as I obviously don’t have experienced Columbia on my own.
If you want to do corporate law, Chicago is a great place to do that. Not only that you have the main classes you will (more or less) enjoy everywhere, there a lot of seminars on a wide variety of corporate or securities related topics. Generally, Chicago has great professors. Furthermore, if you are interested in some background information on modern corporate and securities law, you have to get a sense of law and economics. And there is no better place to do that in the US than in Chicago, the cradle of law and economics, classical as well as modern behavioral law and econ. (Richard Posner, Easterbrook, Sunstein, Baird, Epstein, Picker… you name it). And the business school is just 5min from the law school, so if you are interested in taking classes with a nobel prize laureate (e.g. Gary Becker), this is your opportunity.
With respect to taking the New York bar: Chicago has a great passage rate. Furthermore, face reality: Preparing the bar means Barbri. And if you do the Barbri course in NY or in Chicago doesn’t matter a bit. It is just sitting on you lower back and trying to put as many details in your head as possible. This is not a matter of law school, but a matter of your own discipline.
If you want to look for a job in NY: for sure, there is an obvious advantage to live in NYC. However, flights to NY from Chicago are cheap (I paid around 100 bucks to get there and to come back).
In terms of socialising: I know all of the people in my program and this is great. And you actually get to know JDs. For me, this is quite important about my time in the US, as I am here to speak with those whose first language is English. I doubt this will be as easy in the NY schools. Especially if you have extra classes for LL.M.s.

This was quite a bit, so I’ll stop.

Whatever school you will choose in the end, you will have a great year.

Cheers,

Yps.
quote
New Yorker

Yps, thanks for your post - that's really helpful for those who are considering both Law Schools. Your comments are even more valuable, since you're already studying in Chicago.

So, a lot of nice things have been said about Chicago. So, some more about NYU. Just for people, who are considering both schools to have more information. Yps, please do not consider as smth against Chicago. Just some thoughts, since it is for the best interest of all applicants to analyse both schools from different sides.


Chicago participates in the Columbia Job Fair which includes Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Stanford, Michigan, Chicago and Virginia. From what Ive heard from employers, this is the more valued job fair (this is what I have HEARD, I cant personally comment on that, so please dont take it as an attempt of insult or whatever).


I agree with this statement with one qualification. What is the reason for Columbia Job Fair to be considered as the most valued one. It does not necessarily mean that it is Chicago which makes this Job Fair so attractive. It may be Harvard, Yale, Stanford, it may be the combination of all these law schools. So, I propose to take this qualification into account when considering law schools.

Several law firm partners told me that the quality of NYU LL.M.s is not always 100% satisfactory if you take in 450 LL.M.s, you cant be too selective.


Good statement. Agree. However, when making my own choise I would consider the law school ranking by employment rate, which is currently as follows:

1. Yale CT 99%
2. Duke NC 98%
3. U. of Virginia VA 97%
3. NYU NY 97%
3. Harvard MA 97%
6. Stanford CA 96%
6. U of Chicago IL 96%
6. Columbia NY 96%
9. BYU UT 95%
9. Notre Dame IN 95%
9. Vanderbilt TN 95%
9. Cornell NY 95 %

http://www.ilrg.com/schools/employ/

Actually, NYU has the third place, whereas Chicago has the six. At the same time it is just 1% separating them from each other. So, I would say that the employment rate is quite the same.

However, please keep in mind that if you go to law firms after your graduation, some law firms have their own preferences in hiring graduates. For example, Cleary loves NYU students, Cravath loves One-Ls, etc. So, if you would like to work in Cleary afterwards, please consider this.

Furthermore, NYU is for many - not for all, and strongly depending on special interests just a safe bet. I think that almost all of the LL.M.s in Chicago were admitted to NYU and many to Columbia and still chose Chicago (I only think as I did not speak to all about that; those I spoke to were at least admitted to NYU).


May be it's true.


And to refer to the US News Ranking in saying that employers just consider the top five is not a very convincing argument. First, most people agree that Chicagos rank in the US News Ranking is significantly to low. However, I do not want to dive into a ranking discussion.


I would still consider the ranking. It's is hard to explain to people at the interview that the law school is actually undervalued in the ranking list. But I wouldn't say that Chicago has bad ranking. It's is actually fifth.


But keep that in mind when you guess about employers interests. And that is it a guess, or did you speak to employers?


I said "more reluctant", and some of them really are. But frankly speaking, if you are really bright, does it really matter are you from NYU which is 4th or from Chicago which is 6th in the ranking list, but actually 5th, since it goes right after NYU.


The JDs from Chicago and many of the LL.M.s who want to have a job in New York get a job in the Big Apple.


WIth JDs it's true. With LLM's, not many, even from Harvard or Yale. It's really hard to get in. That's experience of my friends for the past 1.5 year. What you need is really good marks at law school.

Chicago has a strong reputation for its rigorous course program the quarter system quickens the pace and you have to make more credits than in any other law school. All of the classes are small and, additionally, you get into all the classes you want. I heard differently with respect to Columbia, but this is hearsay as I obviously dont have experienced Columbia on my own.
If you want to do corporate law, Chicago is a great place to do that. Not only that you have the main classes you will (more or less) enjoy everywhere, there a lot of seminars on a wide variety of corporate or securities related topics. Generally, Chicago has great professors. Furthermore, if you are interested in some background information on modern corporate and securities law, you have to get a sense of law and economics. And there is no better place to do that in the US than in Chicago, the cradle of law and economics, classical as well as modern behavioral law and econ. (Richard Posner, Easterbrook, Sunstein, Baird, Epstein, Picker you name it). And the business school is just 5min from the law school, so if you are interested in taking classes with a nobel prize laureate (e.g. Gary Becker), this is your opportunity.


This information is really valuable. I would take it into account when considering the law schools. But the same goes for NYU. Also good reputation. And NYU Stern is the right next building to the Law School

With respect to taking the New York bar: Chicago has a great passage rate. Furthermore, face reality: Preparing the bar means Barbri. And if you do the Barbri course in NY or in Chicago doesnt matter a bit. It is just sitting on you lower back and trying to put as many details in your head as possible. This is not a matter of law school, but a matter of your own discipline.


Right.


If you want to look for a job in NY: for sure, there is an obvious advantage to live in NYC. However, flights to NY from Chicago are cheap (I paid around 100 bucks to get there and to come back).


I just would like to add that another advantage of NYU is that a number of counsels and partners from NYC law firms teach at NYU. Good contacts.


In terms of socialising: I know all of the people in my program and this is great. And you actually get to know JDs. For me, this is quite important about my time in the US, as I am here to speak with those whose first language is English. I doubt this will be as easy in the NY schools. Especially if you have extra classes for LL.M.s.


LLMs study with JD at NYU.

Whatever school you will choose in the end, you will have a great year.

Cheers,

Yps.


I would add that after considering this post once again that Chicago and NYU are really on the same level in many terms. Whatever school you chose at the end of the day, you will make a right choise.

Cheers.

New Y:o)rker

Yps, thanks for your post - that's really helpful for those who are considering both Law Schools. Your comments are even more valuable, since you're already studying in Chicago.

So, a lot of nice things have been said about Chicago. So, some more about NYU. Just for people, who are considering both schools to have more information. Yps, please do not consider as smth against Chicago. Just some thoughts, since it is for the best interest of all applicants to analyse both schools from different sides.

<blockquote>
Chicago participates in the Columbia Job Fair which includes Harvard, Yale, Columbia, Stanford, Michigan, Chicago and Virginia. From what I’ve heard from employers, this is the more valued job fair (this is what I have HEARD, I can’t personally comment on that, so please don’t take it as an attempt of insult or whatever). </blockquote>

I agree with this statement with one qualification. What is the reason for Columbia Job Fair to be considered as the most valued one. It does not necessarily mean that it is Chicago which makes this Job Fair so attractive. It may be Harvard, Yale, Stanford, it may be the combination of all these law schools. So, I propose to take this qualification into account when considering law schools.

<blockquote> Several law firm partners told me that the quality of NYU LL.M.s is not always 100% satisfactory – if you take in 450 LL.M.s, you can’t be too selective. </blockquote>

Good statement. Agree. However, when making my own choise I would consider the law school ranking by employment rate, which is currently as follows:

1. Yale CT 99%
2. Duke NC 98%
3. U. of Virginia VA 97%
3. NYU NY 97%
3. Harvard MA 97%
6. Stanford CA 96%
6. U of Chicago IL 96%
6. Columbia NY 96%
9. BYU UT 95%
9. Notre Dame IN 95%
9. Vanderbilt TN 95%
9. Cornell NY 95 %

http://www.ilrg.com/schools/employ/

Actually, NYU has the third place, whereas Chicago has the six. At the same time it is just 1% separating them from each other. So, I would say that the employment rate is quite the same.

However, please keep in mind that if you go to law firms after your graduation, some law firms have their own preferences in hiring graduates. For example, Cleary loves NYU students, Cravath loves One-Ls, etc. So, if you would like to work in Cleary afterwards, please consider this.

<blockquote> Furthermore, NYU is for many - not for all, and strongly depending on special interests – just a “safe bet”. I think that almost all of the LL.M.s in Chicago were admitted to NYU and many to Columbia and still chose Chicago (I only think as I did not speak to all about that; those I spoke to were at least admitted to NYU). </blockquote>

May be it's true.

<blockquote>
And to refer to the US News Ranking in saying that employers just consider the top five is not a very convincing argument. First, most people agree that Chicago’s rank in the US News Ranking is significantly to low. However, I do not want to dive into a ranking discussion.
</blockquote>

I would still consider the ranking. It's is hard to explain to people at the interview that the law school is actually undervalued in the ranking list. But I wouldn't say that Chicago has bad ranking. It's is actually fifth.

<blockquote>
But keep that in mind when you guess about employer’s interests. And that is it – a guess, or did you speak to employers? </blockquote>

I said "more reluctant", and some of them really are. But frankly speaking, if you are really bright, does it really matter are you from NYU which is 4th or from Chicago which is 6th in the ranking list, but actually 5th, since it goes right after NYU.

<blockquote>
The JDs from Chicago and many of the LL.M.s who want to have a job in New York get a job in the Big Apple. </blockquote>

WIth JDs it's true. With LLM's, not many, even from Harvard or Yale. It's really hard to get in. That's experience of my friends for the past 1.5 year. What you need is really good marks at law school.

<blockquote> Chicago has a strong reputation for its rigorous course program – the quarter system quickens the pace and you have to make more credits than in any other law school. All of the classes are small and, additionally, you get into all the classes you want. I heard differently with respect to Columbia, but this is hearsay as I obviously don’t have experienced Columbia on my own.
If you want to do corporate law, Chicago is a great place to do that. Not only that you have the main classes you will (more or less) enjoy everywhere, there a lot of seminars on a wide variety of corporate or securities related topics. Generally, Chicago has great professors. Furthermore, if you are interested in some background information on modern corporate and securities law, you have to get a sense of law and economics. And there is no better place to do that in the US than in Chicago, the cradle of law and economics, classical as well as modern behavioral law and econ. (Richard Posner, Easterbrook, Sunstein, Baird, Epstein, Picker… you name it). And the business school is just 5min from the law school, so if you are interested in taking classes with a nobel prize laureate (e.g. Gary Becker), this is your opportunity. </blockquote>

This information is really valuable. I would take it into account when considering the law schools. But the same goes for NYU. Also good reputation. And NYU Stern is the right next building to the Law School

<blockquote> With respect to taking the New York bar: Chicago has a great passage rate. Furthermore, face reality: Preparing the bar means Barbri. And if you do the Barbri course in NY or in Chicago doesn’t matter a bit. It is just sitting on you lower back and trying to put as many details in your head as possible. This is not a matter of law school, but a matter of your own discipline. </blockquote>

Right.


<blockquote> If you want to look for a job in NY: for sure, there is an obvious advantage to live in NYC. However, flights to NY from Chicago are cheap (I paid around 100 bucks to get there and to come back). </blockquote>

I just would like to add that another advantage of NYU is that a number of counsels and partners from NYC law firms teach at NYU. Good contacts.

<blockquote>
In terms of socialising: I know all of the people in my program and this is great. And you actually get to know JDs. For me, this is quite important about my time in the US, as I am here to speak with those whose first language is English. I doubt this will be as easy in the NY schools. Especially if you have extra classes for LL.M.s. </blockquote>

LLMs study with JD at NYU.

<blockquote> Whatever school you will choose in the end, you will have a great year.

Cheers,

Yps.</blockquote>

I would add that after considering this post once again that Chicago and NYU are really on the same level in many terms. Whatever school you chose at the end of the day, you will make a right choise.

Cheers.

New Y:o)rker
quote
richardcjy

Just a reminder, the employment rates you mentioned only count JD students. I don't think it in anyway reflects chances of employment for LLM grads.

Just a reminder, the employment rates you mentioned only count JD students. I don't think it in anyway reflects chances of employment for LLM grads.
quote
New Yorker

Just a reminder, the employment rates you mentioned only count JD students. I don't think it in anyway reflects chances of employment for LLM grads.


Thanks for this comment. Indeed, those rates are for JD students, and they do not reflect chances of employment for LLM graduates. For example, only 4% of 2005 NYU LLM graduates got the permanent jobs at law firms in NYC (for those who get 1 year internship and go back to work for the same firm in his/her country this figure is higher).

I referred to the rank, since I believe it reflects somehow the attitude of employers from NYC towards students from different law schools. Although LLMs should not use it to consider what their chances for employment in New York are, but to take an idea of what is the employers' attitude to the law school in general.

Cheers,

New Y:o)rker

<blockquote>Just a reminder, the employment rates you mentioned only count JD students. I don't think it in anyway reflects chances of employment for LLM grads.
</blockquote>

Thanks for this comment. Indeed, those rates are for JD students, and they do not reflect chances of employment for LLM graduates. For example, only 4% of 2005 NYU LLM graduates got the permanent jobs at law firms in NYC (for those who get 1 year internship and go back to work for the same firm in his/her country this figure is higher).

I referred to the rank, since I believe it reflects somehow the attitude of employers from NYC towards students from different law schools. Although LLMs should not use it to consider what their chances for employment in New York are, but to take an idea of what is the employers' attitude to the law school in general.

Cheers,

New Y:o)rker
quote
richardcjy

I am really curious where you found the stats for the employment rates of LLM grads. Are you a insider? Do you have stats for other schools?

I am really curious where you found the stats for the employment rates of LLM grads. Are you a insider? Do you have stats for other schools?
quote
New Yorker

I am really curious where you found the stats for the employment rates of LLM grads. Are you a insider? Do you have stats for other schools?


Kind of. This information is what LLM students of the year 2005-2006 were told by NYU Career Service. Unfortunately, I do not know what was the employment rate for LLM students graduated in 2006. I also do not know what are the figures for LLMs at other Law Schools. In case I have updated information with regard to NYU LLM 2006 class, I will keep you posted.

<blockquote>I am really curious where you found the stats for the employment rates of LLM grads. Are you a insider? Do you have stats for other schools?</blockquote>

Kind of. This information is what LLM students of the year 2005-2006 were told by NYU Career Service. Unfortunately, I do not know what was the employment rate for LLM students graduated in 2006. I also do not know what are the figures for LLMs at other Law Schools. In case I have updated information with regard to NYU LLM 2006 class, I will keep you posted.
quote
ivan2006

I´ve got some data regarding the employment of international students in the US:

- In 2005, NYU had 265 students registered with the Office of Career Services. 185 participated in the job fair, and 61 secured positions in the US (24 got internships, 21 permanent positions and 16 were non-specified). Total = 61.

I have no data regarding the students that secured positions in their home country (most likely scenario if you are European), but what I´ve seen around is that the Belgians, French and Germans are golden - they had more 15 interviews in the job fair last week!

I´ve got some data regarding the employment of international students in the US:

- In 2005, NYU had 265 students registered with the Office of Career Services. 185 participated in the job fair, and 61 secured positions in the US (24 got internships, 21 permanent positions and 16 were non-specified). Total = 61.

I have no data regarding the students that secured positions in their home country (most likely scenario if you are European), but what I´ve seen around is that the Belgians, French and Germans are golden - they had more 15 interviews in the job fair last week!
quote
New Yorker

I´ve got some data regarding the employment of international students in the US:

- In 2005, NYU had 265 students registered with the Office of Career Services. 185 participated in the job fair, and 61 secured positions in the US (24 got internships, 21 permanent positions and 16 were non-specified). Total = 61.

I have no data regarding the students that secured positions in their home country (most likely scenario if you are European), but what I´ve seen around is that the Belgians, French and Germans are golden - they had more 15 interviews in the job fair last week!


Thanks ivan, these figures are very useful. This is also in line with information I posted. According to my information 4% of the LLM class 2005 secured permanent positions at NYC law firms.

<blockquote>I´ve got some data regarding the employment of international students in the US:

- In 2005, NYU had 265 students registered with the Office of Career Services. 185 participated in the job fair, and 61 secured positions in the US (24 got internships, 21 permanent positions and 16 were non-specified). Total = 61.

I have no data regarding the students that secured positions in their home country (most likely scenario if you are European), but what I´ve seen around is that the Belgians, French and Germans are golden - they had more 15 interviews in the job fair last week! </blockquote>

Thanks ivan, these figures are very useful. This is also in line with information I posted. According to my information 4% of the LLM class 2005 secured permanent positions at NYC law firms.
quote
New Yorker

I just want to add one thing. The majority of those LLMs who got a permanent employment from NYC law firms are from LLM in Taxation. The law firms are very interested in them, and less interested in LLMs from other streams.

I have actually seen the NYU LLM 2005-06 book which was circulated among LLM students one month ago. It provided for the names of each LLM student and where he/she is currently working. I do not remember the exact figures now, but it was like 4-5 LLMs in total from International Legal Studies, General Legal Studies and Corporation Law got the jobs at law firms, whereas it was about 10-15 from LLM in Taxation class who got the job in top law firms. These figures are rough, since I have not this book with me, but my impression after I saw it was like "upps... really not to many chances for those who are not in LLM in Taxation".

I just want to add one thing. The majority of those LLMs who got a permanent employment from NYC law firms are from LLM in Taxation. The law firms are very interested in them, and less interested in LLMs from other streams.

I have actually seen the NYU LLM 2005-06 book which was circulated among LLM students one month ago. It provided for the names of each LLM student and where he/she is currently working. I do not remember the exact figures now, but it was like 4-5 LLMs in total from International Legal Studies, General Legal Studies and Corporation Law got the jobs at law firms, whereas it was about 10-15 from LLM in Taxation class who got the job in top law firms. These figures are rough, since I have not this book with me, but my impression after I saw it was like "upps... really not to many chances for those who are not in LLM in Taxation".
quote
ivan2006

Interesting... but I had a different opinion about this issue. I think we may talk about 4 different scenarios: 1) If you are American and you are enrolled in the Tax LL.M; 2) If you are an international student and you are inrolled in the Tax/ International Tax LL.M; 3) If you are an international student and you are in the Corporate Law program (or in the General Studies but taking courses on Corporate Law); and 4) You are an international student and you are studying something else (public interest law, litigation, international legal studies).

1 and 2 have certain advantages (although 1 is by far the best): apart from the January job fair, they have on-campus interviews on Fall and Spring, and a job fair in DC in February. Regarding the international tax students, it is indeed true that they have more opportunities, but it does not mean that they will land a job in a Big Law Firm. Some do (from last year, I know people who accepted internships and permanent positions, and they say that everybody who wanted to stay here in the US managed to do so), and some accept offers from Big 4 companies. Ok, Big 4 does not pay 160K but it is still a good option.

I think the ones in 3 are in a great position to secure jobs here, depending on their country of origin. Actually, the international students in the Tax/ ITax LL.M usually say that if they were Corporate lawyers, it would be much easier to find a job here... Maybe we say that because the grass is always greener on the other side, but sometimes I agree with that. Last year, almost all of the Latin Americans in the Corporate program landed jobs in NY because that was what the firms needed. The rumor is that this year is the year of the Asians. Unfortunately, it is still too early to say whether it is true or not.

And then there is 4. Guys in scenario 4 may have a hard time looking for a job here, but I guess (specially if they are Europeans) they may secure great jobs in their home countries.

It´s funny, isn´t it? You say the Tax guys are the top dogs and I (a tax lawyer myself) think the Corporate guys are in a best position...

Interesting... but I had a different opinion about this issue. I think we may talk about 4 different scenarios: 1) If you are American and you are enrolled in the Tax LL.M; 2) If you are an international student and you are inrolled in the Tax/ International Tax LL.M; 3) If you are an international student and you are in the Corporate Law program (or in the General Studies but taking courses on Corporate Law); and 4) You are an international student and you are studying something else (public interest law, litigation, international legal studies).

1 and 2 have certain advantages (although 1 is by far the best): apart from the January job fair, they have on-campus interviews on Fall and Spring, and a job fair in DC in February. Regarding the international tax students, it is indeed true that they have more opportunities, but it does not mean that they will land a job in a Big Law Firm. Some do (from last year, I know people who accepted internships and permanent positions, and they say that everybody who wanted to stay here in the US managed to do so), and some accept offers from Big 4 companies. Ok, Big 4 does not pay 160K but it is still a good option.

I think the ones in 3 are in a great position to secure jobs here, depending on their country of origin. Actually, the international students in the Tax/ ITax LL.M usually say that if they were Corporate lawyers, it would be much easier to find a job here... Maybe we say that because the grass is always greener on the other side, but sometimes I agree with that. Last year, almost all of the Latin Americans in the Corporate program landed jobs in NY because that was what the firms needed. The rumor is that this year is the year of the Asians. Unfortunately, it is still too early to say whether it is true or not.

And then there is 4. Guys in scenario 4 may have a hard time looking for a job here, but I guess (specially if they are Europeans) they may secure great jobs in their home countries.

It´s funny, isn´t it? You say the Tax guys are the top dogs and I (a tax lawyer myself) think the Corporate guys are in a best position...
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