Making a choice for LLM Human Rights.


Maaal

Hello All,

I have been admitted into the following Human Rights LLM programs:
1. Leiden University
2. Essex University
3. Groningen University
4. Edinburgh University
And I am awaiting an answer from Geneva Academy and QMUL.

I find myself confused as to which University would offer the most holistic education. Knowing that getting work in this field is not easy, it becomes quite tough to decide.
I do find myself favouring Leiden and Essex, however any and all advice would be welcome. So please let me know what your thoughts are about this.

Thank you. :)

Hello All,

I have been admitted into the following Human Rights LLM programs:
1. Leiden University
2. Essex University
3. Groningen University
4. Edinburgh University
And I am awaiting an answer from Geneva Academy and QMUL.

I find myself confused as to which University would offer the most holistic education. Knowing that getting work in this field is not easy, it becomes quite tough to decide.
I do find myself favouring Leiden and Essex, however any and all advice would be welcome. So please let me know what your thoughts are about this.

Thank you. :)
quote

If you get an admission, then I would definitely go for Geneva. If not I'd say Leiden or Edinburgh. I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen.

If you get an admission, then I would definitely go for Geneva. If not I'd say Leiden or Edinburgh. I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen.
quote
Maaal

If you get an admission, then I would definitely go for Geneva. If not I'd say Leiden or Edinburgh. I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen.


Hey,
Thanks for the reply.
GA is brilliant, but more humanitarian law centric so might as well go with Leiden instead, in terms of ranking I guess.

[quote]If you get an admission, then I would definitely go for Geneva. If not I'd say Leiden or Edinburgh. I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen.
[/quote]

Hey,
Thanks for the reply.
GA is brilliant, but more humanitarian law centric so might as well go with Leiden instead, in terms of ranking I guess.

quote
AJ3914

Exactly. I went to Leiden in the Advanced LLM in PIL. It’s the best in NL. I’m applying to Geneva now. Leiden is the best PIL program specialized in ICL, there are others more prestigious specialized in Arbitration. Geneva is the best one in Humanitarian Law. So, it all depends on what specific field you want to follow.

I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen. I’m always confused whether the very good one in Human Rights is Essex or Sussex, but just after Nottingham of course. For general PIL, Cambridge and then Leiden.

Something you need to consider about UK vs The Hague or Geneva is that studying in a city where it all happens gives you more chances to get an internship or a job right away. I’m in my third internship at the moment in my third country - The Hague, Cambodia, and Costa Rica - the three of them at international courts. My classmates with more previous experiences already got many internationals and domestic jobs.

Hope this helps,
Anderson


If you get an admission, then I would definitely go for Geneva. If not I'd say Leiden or Edinburgh.




Hey,
Thanks for the reply.
GA is brilliant, but more humanitarian law centric so might as well go with Leiden instead, in terms of ranking I guess.

[Edited by AJ3914 on Jan 27, 2020]

Exactly. I went to Leiden in the Advanced LLM in PIL. It’s the best in NL. I’m applying to Geneva now. Leiden is the best PIL program specialized in ICL, there are others more prestigious specialized in Arbitration. Geneva is the best one in Humanitarian Law. So, it all depends on what specific field you want to follow.

I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen. I’m always confused whether the very good one in Human Rights is Essex or Sussex, but just after Nottingham of course. For general PIL, Cambridge and then Leiden.

Something you need to consider about UK vs The Hague or Geneva is that studying in a city where it all happens gives you more chances to get an internship or a job right away. I’m in my third internship at the moment in my third country - The Hague, Cambodia, and Costa Rica - the three of them at international courts. My classmates with more previous experiences already got many internationals and domestic jobs.

Hope this helps,
Anderson



[quote][quote]If you get an admission, then I would definitely go for Geneva. If not I'd say Leiden or Edinburgh.


[/quote]

Hey,
Thanks for the reply.
GA is brilliant, but more humanitarian law centric so might as well go with Leiden instead, in terms of ranking I guess.

[/quote]
quote
Maaal

Exactly. I went to Leiden in the Advanced LLM in PIL. It’s the best in NL. I’m applying to Geneva now. Leiden is the best PIL program specialized in ICL, there are others more prestigious specialized in Arbitration. Geneva is the best one in Humanitarian Law. So, it all depends on what specific field you want to follow.

I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen. I’m always confused whether the very good one in Human Rights is Essex or Sussex, but just after Nottingham of course. For general PIL, Cambridge and then Leiden.

Something you need to consider about UK vs The Hague or Geneva is that studying in a city where it all happens gives you more chances to get an internship or a job right away. I’m in my third internship at the moment in my third country - The Hague, Cambodia, and Costa Rica - the three of them at international courts. My classmates with more previous experiences already got many internationals and domestic jobs.

Hope this helps,
Anderson



Hey Anderson,

Thank you so much for your reply. It really helped me put things into perspective.
I will be accepting my place in Leiden, as I feel the point you raised about the internships makes it the best option. Also, it doesn't hurt that Leiden is a well-reputed university.
Thank you and warm regards.

[quote]Exactly. I went to Leiden in the Advanced LLM in PIL. It’s the best in NL. I’m applying to Geneva now. Leiden is the best PIL program specialized in ICL, there are others more prestigious specialized in Arbitration. Geneva is the best one in Humanitarian Law. So, it all depends on what specific field you want to follow.

I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen. I’m always confused whether the very good one in Human Rights is Essex or Sussex, but just after Nottingham of course. For general PIL, Cambridge and then Leiden.

Something you need to consider about UK vs The Hague or Geneva is that studying in a city where it all happens gives you more chances to get an internship or a job right away. I’m in my third internship at the moment in my third country - The Hague, Cambodia, and Costa Rica - the three of them at international courts. My classmates with more previous experiences already got many internationals and domestic jobs.

Hope this helps,
Anderson

[/quote][/quote]

Hey Anderson,

Thank you so much for your reply. It really helped me put things into perspective.
I will be accepting my place in Leiden, as I feel the point you raised about the internships makes it the best option. Also, it doesn't hurt that Leiden is a well-reputed university.
Thank you and warm regards.

quote
AJ3914

I’m glad to help. Say hi to Mette and Carsten Stahn for me. Good luck and probably see you at the alumni and current students meeting.

Exactly. I went to Leiden in the Advanced LLM in PIL. It’s the best in NL. I’m applying to Geneva now. Leiden is the best PIL program specialized in ICL, there are others more prestigious specialized in Arbitration. Geneva is the best one in Humanitarian Law. So, it all depends on what specific field you want to follow.

I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen. I’m always confused whether the very good one in Human Rights is Essex or Sussex, but just after Nottingham of course. For general PIL, Cambridge and then Leiden.

Something you need to consider about UK vs The Hague or Geneva is that studying in a city where it all happens gives you more chances to get an internship or a job right away. I’m in my third internship at the moment in my third country - The Hague, Cambodia, and Costa Rica - the three of them at international courts. My classmates with more previous experiences already got many internationals and domestic jobs.

Hope this helps,
Anderson



Hey Anderson,

Thank you so much for your reply. It really helped me put things into perspective.
I will be accepting my place in Leiden, as I feel the point you raised about the internships makes it the best option. Also, it doesn't hurt that Leiden is a well-reputed university.
Thank you and warm regards.

I’m glad to help. Say hi to Mette and Carsten Stahn for me. Good luck and probably see you at the alumni and current students meeting. [quote][quote]Exactly. I went to Leiden in the Advanced LLM in PIL. It’s the best in NL. I’m applying to Geneva now. Leiden is the best PIL program specialized in ICL, there are others more prestigious specialized in Arbitration. Geneva is the best one in Humanitarian Law. So, it all depends on what specific field you want to follow.

I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen. I’m always confused whether the very good one in Human Rights is Essex or Sussex, but just after Nottingham of course. For general PIL, Cambridge and then Leiden.

Something you need to consider about UK vs The Hague or Geneva is that studying in a city where it all happens gives you more chances to get an internship or a job right away. I’m in my third internship at the moment in my third country - The Hague, Cambodia, and Costa Rica - the three of them at international courts. My classmates with more previous experiences already got many internationals and domestic jobs.

Hope this helps,
Anderson

[/quote][/quote]

Hey Anderson,

Thank you so much for your reply. It really helped me put things into perspective.
I will be accepting my place in Leiden, as I feel the point you raised about the internships makes it the best option. Also, it doesn't hurt that Leiden is a well-reputed university.
Thank you and warm regards.

[/quote]
quote
lawman24

If you get an admission, then I would definitely go for Geneva. If not I'd say Leiden or Edinburgh. I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen.


And how can you tell Leiden is better than Groningen? You studied at both?

[Edited by lawman24 on Jan 30, 2020]

[quote]If you get an admission, then I would definitely go for Geneva. If not I'd say Leiden or Edinburgh. I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen.
[/quote]

And how can you tell Leiden is better than Groningen? You studied at both?
quote

Hi Maaal,

I graduated from the IHRL program in Groningen, so perhaps I will be able to offer some insights in that regard.

I would recommend Groningen wholeheartedly and thought that it offered a holistic approach to human rights as I had the option to select my electives in a way that enabled me to learn about IHL and ICL as well. Students are expected to engage at a very high level and produce high quality work + there was a good balance between lectures, self-study, and seminars. Classes (especially the seminars) were rather small so this would mean more interaction with classmates and professors. Helpful to point out that Groningen was the first uni in NL to offer an IHRL course so you know that they have tried and tested the course to ensure it's success, especially since they were ranked the best uni to study IHRL in NL (according to Keuzegids). If you'd like a deeper insight into life in Groningen, you can refer to my previous comment here: https://llm-guide.com/board/europe/leiden-llm-european-and-international-human-rights-2019-20-221632#post-id-222562

It all boils down to what you are looking for at the end of the day. I think all of the schools that you've been accepted to have excellent reputation for international (human rights) law and friends who have studied all those unis also have all had good things to say. So if I were in your position I'd perhaps look at the curriculum again and compare the courses offered/look up the professors and see what aligns with your own goals. Other commenters raised a good point re studying in a city where NGOs/international organizations are but I didn't necessarily find this to be a problem as I was involved with Amnesty International in Groningen and managed to secure internships at the IRMCT and ICC right after graduation.

Maaal, if you have more questions about Groningen, I'll be more than happy to answer them!

P.S.: I am also curious about the basis upon which @Anderson3914 makes the claim: "I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen". I don't deny that Leiden offers a fantastic LL.M. program, but perhaps it was a little unfair to make that unsubstantiated comparison (:

Rachel

Hi Maaal,

I graduated from the IHRL program in Groningen, so perhaps I will be able to offer some insights in that regard.

I would recommend Groningen wholeheartedly and thought that it offered a holistic approach to human rights as I had the option to select my electives in a way that enabled me to learn about IHL and ICL as well. Students are expected to engage at a very high level and produce high quality work + there was a good balance between lectures, self-study, and seminars. Classes (especially the seminars) were rather small so this would mean more interaction with classmates and professors. Helpful to point out that Groningen was the first uni in NL to offer an IHRL course so you know that they have tried and tested the course to ensure it's success, especially since they were ranked the best uni to study IHRL in NL (according to Keuzegids). If you'd like a deeper insight into life in Groningen, you can refer to my previous comment here: https://llm-guide.com/board/europe/leiden-llm-european-and-international-human-rights-2019-20-221632#post-id-222562

It all boils down to what you are looking for at the end of the day. I think all of the schools that you've been accepted to have excellent reputation for international (human rights) law and friends who have studied all those unis also have all had good things to say. So if I were in your position I'd perhaps look at the curriculum again and compare the courses offered/look up the professors and see what aligns with your own goals. Other commenters raised a good point re studying in a city where NGOs/international organizations are but I didn't necessarily find this to be a problem as I was involved with Amnesty International in Groningen and managed to secure internships at the IRMCT and ICC right after graduation.

Maaal, if you have more questions about Groningen, I'll be more than happy to answer them!

P.S.: I am also curious about the basis upon which @Anderson3914 makes the claim: "I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen". I don't deny that Leiden offers a fantastic LL.M. program, but perhaps it was a little unfair to make that unsubstantiated comparison (:

Rachel


quote
AJ3914

Hi Rachel,

Well, to start with Leiden has been ranked with top 3 Human Right LLM in the world, you can see it in this page as well. Leiden is top 30 Law School in the world, I honestly don’t know Groningen’s position. Third, I have been intern in 3 international tribunals in 3 different countries/continents and I still haven’t met anyone from Groningen in a full time position, I only remember a fellow intern with the bachelor in International Law.

In any event, if course no one is in a position to answer the question based on: “I did all masters and find X to be the best one”. And I’m pretty sure you might be as competent as anyone from Leiden or anyone from another master. However, if Maaal has the chance to choose, she should go to an institution where she will have to build a case as to why her program is as good or better than the others instead of going to a program with enough reputation to do that for her. And that’s Leiden’s. You can tell here how many people are asking questions about Leiden and how many others are asking about other unies. Leiden’s faculty is composed not only by academics like William Schabas or Helen Duffy, but you get the chance to be lectured by practitioners who live or visit The Hague.

Leiden has been the university winning the national rounds of the Jessup for (at least) the last 3 years which means students also have the opportunity to compete in Washington, D.C. Leiden is part of The a Fellow Traineeship of the ICJ, which means one student can be selected to law clerk for an ICJ judge for a whole year. Only really prestigious universities participate in this program from which only 15 students are selected (1 per university) and Leiden has got one (at least for the last 4 years). That program is paid by the university as a P1 position at the UN. It is always paid by the universities to the selected students but I think Leiden is the only university participating from NL. There are like only 20 participating each year.

I could continue and I of course I would never dare to say that your experience was not great, but if I had to make that decision I would go to Leiden, then Utrecht and/or Amsterdam and maybe then Groningen. But hey, that’s in NL. Maybe ideally I would have go first to Cambridge and then to a specialized master like ICL in Leiden, Humanitarian in Geneva, and would probably do Human Rights in the US (Notre Dame or Washington University) but that’s because I’m from the American continent and have more chances to ever work for the Inter-American System and not the European.

I’m sorry if I didn’t give all my reasons and that made it sound unfair to you, your uni or your experience. I’m only answering according to my experience. Of course it is Maaal’s decision and shouldn’t be taken solely on one comment in this post, not eve if @personanongrata agrees with me.

UPDATED: Well, sorry I texted everything above from my phone. Now from the computer I can give you some relevant links:
This is the ICJ programme Leiden participates: https://www.icj-cij.org/en/judicial-fellows-program
Leiden has the IHL clinic that can take you to situation countries or to the exchange conference that they prepare in USA: http://kalshovengieskesforum.com/ihl-clinic/ (For example, some of my classmate went to Palestine because they were working on a project about the situation there).
You could be assistant editor of the Leiden Journal of International Law or the International Organization Law Review. You could be research assistant for a couple of professors or volunteer for Helen Duffy´s Human Right Practice. I also got two scholarships for two summer courses, one of them with Duke-Law School for a whole month, the course costs almost 5,000 dollars.
Oh, one last thing, we have an annual meeting of alumni and current student, and we always receive jobs opportunities in our alumni linkedin group directly from our programme coordinator.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/leiden-journal-of-international-law
https://brill.com/view/journals/iolr/iolr-overview.xml
https://www.rightsinpractice.org/what-we-do
https://law.duke.edu/summerinstitutes/leiden/

Hi Maaal,

I graduated from the IHRL program in Groningen, so perhaps I will be able to offer some insights in that regard.

I would recommend Groningen wholeheartedly and thought that it offered a holistic approach to human rights as I had the option to select my electives in a way that enabled me to learn about IHL and ICL as well. Students are expected to engage at a very high level and produce high quality work + there was a good balance between lectures, self-study, and seminars. Classes (especially the seminars) were rather small so this would mean more interaction with classmates and professors. Helpful to point out that Groningen was the first uni in NL to offer an IHRL course so you know that they have tried and tested the course to ensure it's success, especially since they were ranked the best uni to study IHRL in NL (according to Keuzegids). If you'd like a deeper insight into life in Groningen, you can refer to my previous comment here: https://llm-guide.com/board/europe/leiden-llm-european-and-international-human-rights-2019-20-221632#post-id-222562

It all boils down to what you are looking for at the end of the day. I think all of the schools that you've been accepted to have excellent reputation for international (human rights) law and friends who have studied all those unis also have all had good things to say. So if I were in your position I'd perhaps look at the curriculum again and compare the courses offered/look up the professors and see what aligns with your own goals. Other commenters raised a good point re studying in a city where NGOs/international organizations are but I didn't necessarily find this to be a problem as I was involved with Amnesty International in Groningen and managed to secure internships at the IRMCT and ICC right after graduation.

Maaal, if you have more questions about Groningen, I'll be more than happy to answer them!

P.S.: I am also curious about the basis upon which @Anderson3914 makes the claim: "I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen". I don't deny that Leiden offers a fantastic LL.M. program, but perhaps it was a little unfair to make that unsubstantiated comparison (:

Rachel


[Edited by AJ3914 on Jan 31, 2020]

Hi Rachel,

Well, to start with Leiden has been ranked with top 3 Human Right LLM in the world, you can see it in this page as well. Leiden is top 30 Law School in the world, I honestly don’t know Groningen’s position. Third, I have been intern in 3 international tribunals in 3 different countries/continents and I still haven’t met anyone from Groningen in a full time position, I only remember a fellow intern with the bachelor in International Law.

In any event, if course no one is in a position to answer the question based on: “I did all masters and find X to be the best one”. And I’m pretty sure you might be as competent as anyone from Leiden or anyone from another master. However, if Maaal has the chance to choose, she should go to an institution where she will have to build a case as to why her program is as good or better than the others instead of going to a program with enough reputation to do that for her. And that’s Leiden’s. You can tell here how many people are asking questions about Leiden and how many others are asking about other unies. Leiden’s faculty is composed not only by academics like William Schabas or Helen Duffy, but you get the chance to be lectured by practitioners who live or visit The Hague.

Leiden has been the university winning the national rounds of the Jessup for (at least) the last 3 years which means students also have the opportunity to compete in Washington, D.C. Leiden is part of The a Fellow Traineeship of the ICJ, which means one student can be selected to law clerk for an ICJ judge for a whole year. Only really prestigious universities participate in this program from which only 15 students are selected (1 per university) and Leiden has got one (at least for the last 4 years). That program is paid by the university as a P1 position at the UN. It is always paid by the universities to the selected students but I think Leiden is the only university participating from NL. There are like only 20 participating each year.

I could continue and I of course I would never dare to say that your experience was not great, but if I had to make that decision I would go to Leiden, then Utrecht and/or Amsterdam and maybe then Groningen. But hey, that’s in NL. Maybe ideally I would have go first to Cambridge and then to a specialized master like ICL in Leiden, Humanitarian in Geneva, and would probably do Human Rights in the US (Notre Dame or Washington University) but that’s because I’m from the American continent and have more chances to ever work for the Inter-American System and not the European.

I’m sorry if I didn’t give all my reasons and that made it sound unfair to you, your uni or your experience. I’m only answering according to my experience. Of course it is Maaal’s decision and shouldn’t be taken solely on one comment in this post, not eve if @personanongrata agrees with me.

UPDATED: Well, sorry I texted everything above from my phone. Now from the computer I can give you some relevant links:
This is the ICJ programme Leiden participates: https://www.icj-cij.org/en/judicial-fellows-program
Leiden has the IHL clinic that can take you to situation countries or to the exchange conference that they prepare in USA: http://kalshovengieskesforum.com/ihl-clinic/ (For example, some of my classmate went to Palestine because they were working on a project about the situation there).
You could be assistant editor of the Leiden Journal of International Law or the International Organization Law Review. You could be research assistant for a couple of professors or volunteer for Helen Duffy´s Human Right Practice. I also got two scholarships for two summer courses, one of them with Duke-Law School for a whole month, the course costs almost 5,000 dollars.
Oh, one last thing, we have an annual meeting of alumni and current student, and we always receive jobs opportunities in our alumni linkedin group directly from our programme coordinator.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/leiden-journal-of-international-law
https://brill.com/view/journals/iolr/iolr-overview.xml
https://www.rightsinpractice.org/what-we-do
https://law.duke.edu/summerinstitutes/leiden/
[quote]Hi Maaal,

I graduated from the IHRL program in Groningen, so perhaps I will be able to offer some insights in that regard.

I would recommend Groningen wholeheartedly and thought that it offered a holistic approach to human rights as I had the option to select my electives in a way that enabled me to learn about IHL and ICL as well. Students are expected to engage at a very high level and produce high quality work + there was a good balance between lectures, self-study, and seminars. Classes (especially the seminars) were rather small so this would mean more interaction with classmates and professors. Helpful to point out that Groningen was the first uni in NL to offer an IHRL course so you know that they have tried and tested the course to ensure it's success, especially since they were ranked the best uni to study IHRL in NL (according to Keuzegids). If you'd like a deeper insight into life in Groningen, you can refer to my previous comment here: https://llm-guide.com/board/europe/leiden-llm-european-and-international-human-rights-2019-20-221632#post-id-222562

It all boils down to what you are looking for at the end of the day. I think all of the schools that you've been accepted to have excellent reputation for international (human rights) law and friends who have studied all those unis also have all had good things to say. So if I were in your position I'd perhaps look at the curriculum again and compare the courses offered/look up the professors and see what aligns with your own goals. Other commenters raised a good point re studying in a city where NGOs/international organizations are but I didn't necessarily find this to be a problem as I was involved with Amnesty International in Groningen and managed to secure internships at the IRMCT and ICC right after graduation.

Maaal, if you have more questions about Groningen, I'll be more than happy to answer them!

P.S.: I am also curious about the basis upon which @Anderson3914 makes the claim: "I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen". I don't deny that Leiden offers a fantastic LL.M. program, but perhaps it was a little unfair to make that unsubstantiated comparison (:

Rachel


[/quote]
quote
AJ3914

Exactly. I went to Leiden in the Advanced LLM in PIL. It’s the best in NL. I’m applying to Geneva now. Leiden is the best PIL program specialized in ICL, there are others more prestigious specialized in Arbitration. Geneva is the best one in Humanitarian Law. So, it all depends on what specific field you want to follow.

I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen. I’m always confused whether the very good one in Human Rights is Essex or Sussex, but just after Nottingham of course. For general PIL, Cambridge and then Leiden.

Something you need to consider about UK vs The Hague or Geneva is that studying in a city where it all happens gives you more chances to get an internship or a job right away. I’m in my third internship at the moment in my third country - The Hague, Cambodia, and Costa Rica - the three of them at international courts. My classmates with more previous experiences already got many internationals and domestic jobs.

Hope this helps,
Anderson



Hey Anderson,

Thank you so much for your reply. It really helped me put things into perspective.
I will be accepting my place in Leiden, as I feel the point you raised about the internships makes it the best option. Also, it doesn't hurt that Leiden is a well-reputed university.
Thank you and warm regards.



Check this top 10 Human Rights program: https://llm-guide.com/lists/top-llm-programs-by-speciality/top-10-llm-programs-for-human-rights-law

[Edited by AJ3914 on Jan 31, 2020]

[quote][quote]Exactly. I went to Leiden in the Advanced LLM in PIL. It’s the best in NL. I’m applying to Geneva now. Leiden is the best PIL program specialized in ICL, there are others more prestigious specialized in Arbitration. Geneva is the best one in Humanitarian Law. So, it all depends on what specific field you want to follow.

I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen. I’m always confused whether the very good one in Human Rights is Essex or Sussex, but just after Nottingham of course. For general PIL, Cambridge and then Leiden.

Something you need to consider about UK vs The Hague or Geneva is that studying in a city where it all happens gives you more chances to get an internship or a job right away. I’m in my third internship at the moment in my third country - The Hague, Cambodia, and Costa Rica - the three of them at international courts. My classmates with more previous experiences already got many internationals and domestic jobs.

Hope this helps,
Anderson

[/quote][/quote]

Hey Anderson,

Thank you so much for your reply. It really helped me put things into perspective.
I will be accepting my place in Leiden, as I feel the point you raised about the internships makes it the best option. Also, it doesn't hurt that Leiden is a well-reputed university.
Thank you and warm regards.

[/quote]

Check this top 10 Human Rights program: https://llm-guide.com/lists/top-llm-programs-by-speciality/top-10-llm-programs-for-human-rights-law
quote

If you get an admission, then I would definitely go for Geneva. If not I'd say Leiden or Edinburgh. I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen.


And how can you tell Leiden is better than Groningen? You studied at both?


Hey,
I should have said that I don't study any of the universities mentioned. However, I know their application systems and programmes as I considered or already applied them. I made my comment based on universities' reputation and their alumni, therefore all the points Anderson has mentioned are comply with my comment as well.
Personally after graduation prospects (hence reputation) as important as the education you are receiving. Leiden and Geneva prevails over the other universities mentioned on this as far as I have seen (except I don't have any idea over Essex and some other universities in the UK).

[quote][quote]If you get an admission, then I would definitely go for Geneva. If not I'd say Leiden or Edinburgh. I don't have an idea over Essex but I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen.
[/quote]

And how can you tell Leiden is better than Groningen? You studied at both?[/quote]

Hey,
I should have said that I don't study any of the universities mentioned. However, I know their application systems and programmes as I considered or already applied them. I made my comment based on universities' reputation and their alumni, therefore all the points Anderson has mentioned are comply with my comment as well.
Personally after graduation prospects (hence reputation) as important as the education you are receiving. Leiden and Geneva prevails over the other universities mentioned on this as far as I have seen (except I don't have any idea over Essex and some other universities in the UK).
quote
Maaal

Hi Maaal,

I graduated from the IHRL program in Groningen, so perhaps I will be able to offer some insights in that regard.

I would recommend Groningen wholeheartedly and thought that it offered a holistic approach to human rights as I had the option to select my electives in a way that enabled me to learn about IHL and ICL as well. Students are expected to engage at a very high level and produce high quality work + there was a good balance between lectures, self-study, and seminars. Classes (especially the seminars) were rather small so this would mean more interaction with classmates and professors. Helpful to point out that Groningen was the first uni in NL to offer an IHRL course so you know that they have tried and tested the course to ensure it's success, especially since they were ranked the best uni to study IHRL in NL (according to Keuzegids). If you'd like a deeper insight into life in Groningen, you can refer to my previous comment here: https://llm-guide.com/board/europe/leiden-llm-european-and-international-human-rights-2019-20-221632#post-id-222562

It all boils down to what you are looking for at the end of the day. I think all of the schools that you've been accepted to have excellent reputation for international (human rights) law and friends who have studied all those unis also have all had good things to say. So if I were in your position I'd perhaps look at the curriculum again and compare the courses offered/look up the professors and see what aligns with your own goals. Other commenters raised a good point re studying in a city where NGOs/international organizations are but I didn't necessarily find this to be a problem as I was involved with Amnesty International in Groningen and managed to secure internships at the IRMCT and ICC right after graduation.

Maaal, if you have more questions about Groningen, I'll be more than happy to answer them!

P.S.: I am also curious about the basis upon which @Anderson3914 makes the claim: "I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen". I don't deny that Leiden offers a fantastic LL.M. program, but perhaps it was a little unfair to make that unsubstantiated comparison (:

Rachel





Hi Rachel,
Thank you for your reply.
Groningen like any other NL university has great things to offer. However, at this point, I feel Leiden is a better option for me in terms of subjects and so on. I really appreciate your reply and I'm sure any future reader of this thread will be better informed of what Groningen has to offer.

Thanks and Warm regards.

[quote]Hi Maaal,

I graduated from the IHRL program in Groningen, so perhaps I will be able to offer some insights in that regard.

I would recommend Groningen wholeheartedly and thought that it offered a holistic approach to human rights as I had the option to select my electives in a way that enabled me to learn about IHL and ICL as well. Students are expected to engage at a very high level and produce high quality work + there was a good balance between lectures, self-study, and seminars. Classes (especially the seminars) were rather small so this would mean more interaction with classmates and professors. Helpful to point out that Groningen was the first uni in NL to offer an IHRL course so you know that they have tried and tested the course to ensure it's success, especially since they were ranked the best uni to study IHRL in NL (according to Keuzegids). If you'd like a deeper insight into life in Groningen, you can refer to my previous comment here: https://llm-guide.com/board/europe/leiden-llm-european-and-international-human-rights-2019-20-221632#post-id-222562

It all boils down to what you are looking for at the end of the day. I think all of the schools that you've been accepted to have excellent reputation for international (human rights) law and friends who have studied all those unis also have all had good things to say. So if I were in your position I'd perhaps look at the curriculum again and compare the courses offered/look up the professors and see what aligns with your own goals. Other commenters raised a good point re studying in a city where NGOs/international organizations are but I didn't necessarily find this to be a problem as I was involved with Amnesty International in Groningen and managed to secure internships at the IRMCT and ICC right after graduation.

Maaal, if you have more questions about Groningen, I'll be more than happy to answer them!

P.S.: I am also curious about the basis upon which @Anderson3914 makes the claim: "I can tell that Leiden is better than Groningen". I don't deny that Leiden offers a fantastic LL.M. program, but perhaps it was a little unfair to make that unsubstantiated comparison (:

Rachel


[/quote]


Hi Rachel,
Thank you for your reply.
Groningen like any other NL university has great things to offer. However, at this point, I feel Leiden is a better option for me in terms of subjects and so on. I really appreciate your reply and I'm sure any future reader of this thread will be better informed of what Groningen has to offer.

Thanks and Warm regards.
quote
Maaal

Hi Rachel,

Well, to start with Leiden has been ranked with top 3 Human Right LLM in the world, you can see it in this page as well. Leiden is top 30 Law School in the world, I honestly don’t know Groningen’s position. Third, I have been intern in 3 international tribunals in 3 different countries/continents and I still haven’t met anyone from Groningen in a full time position, I only remember a fellow intern with the bachelor in International Law.

In any event, if course no one is in a position to answer the question based on: “I did all masters and find X to be the best one”. And I’m pretty sure you might be as competent as anyone from Leiden or anyone from another master. However, if Maaal has the chance to choose, she should go to an institution where she will have to build a case as to why her program is as good or better than the others instead of going to a program with enough reputation to do that for her. And that’s Leiden’s. You can tell here how many people are asking questions about Leiden and how many others are asking about other unies. Leiden’s faculty is composed not only by academics like William Schabas or Helen Duffy, but you get the chance to be lectured by practitioners who live or visit The Hague.

Leiden has been the university winning the national rounds of the Jessup for (at least) the last 3 years which means students also have the opportunity to compete in Washington, D.C. Leiden is part of The a Fellow Traineeship of the ICJ, which means one student can be selected to law clerk for an ICJ judge for a whole year. Only really prestigious universities participate in this program from which only 15 students are selected (1 per university) and Leiden has got one (at least for the last 4 years). That program is paid by the university as a P1 position at the UN. It is always paid by the universities to the selected students but I think Leiden is the only university participating from NL. There are like only 20 participating each year.

I could continue and I of course I would never dare to say that your experience was not great, but if I had to make that decision I would go to Leiden, then Utrecht and/or Amsterdam and maybe then Groningen. But hey, that’s in NL. Maybe ideally I would have go first to Cambridge and then to a specialized master like ICL in Leiden, Humanitarian in Geneva, and would probably do Human Rights in the US (Notre Dame or Washington University) but that’s because I’m from the American continent and have more chances to ever work for the Inter-American System and not the European.

I’m sorry if I didn’t give all my reasons and that made it sound unfair to you, your uni or your experience. I’m only answering according to my experience. Of course it is Maaal’s decision and shouldn’t be taken solely on one comment in this post, not eve if @personanongrata agrees with me.

UPDATED: Well, sorry I texted everything above from my phone. Now from the computer I can give you some relevant links:
This is the ICJ programme Leiden participates: https://www.icj-cij.org/en/judicial-fellows-program
Leiden has the IHL clinic that can take you to situation countries or to the exchange conference that they prepare in USA: http://kalshovengieskesforum.com/ihl-clinic/ (For example, some of my classmate went to Palestine because they were working on a project about the situation there).
You could be assistant editor of the Leiden Journal of International Law or the International Organization Law Review. You could be research assistant for a couple of professors or volunteer for Helen Duffy´s Human Right Practice. I also got two scholarships for two summer courses, one of them with Duke-Law School for a whole month, the course costs almost 5,000 dollars.
Oh, one last thing, we have an annual meeting of alumni and current student, and we always receive jobs opportunities in our alumni linkedin group directly from our programme coordinator.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/leiden-journal-of-international-law
https://brill.com/view/journals/iolr/iolr-overview.xml
https://www.rightsinpractice.org/what-we-do
https://law.duke.edu/summerinstitutes/leiden/


Hi Anderson,

Wow, this answer sure made me feel like I have made the best possible choice for me. Thank you so much for all the work you must have put into this reply. If you hadn't put this up I would have for sure not realised the extent of what Leiden has to offer.

I will definitely extend your greetings and look forward to meeting you.

Thanks and warm regards. :)

[quote]Hi Rachel,

Well, to start with Leiden has been ranked with top 3 Human Right LLM in the world, you can see it in this page as well. Leiden is top 30 Law School in the world, I honestly don’t know Groningen’s position. Third, I have been intern in 3 international tribunals in 3 different countries/continents and I still haven’t met anyone from Groningen in a full time position, I only remember a fellow intern with the bachelor in International Law.

In any event, if course no one is in a position to answer the question based on: “I did all masters and find X to be the best one”. And I’m pretty sure you might be as competent as anyone from Leiden or anyone from another master. However, if Maaal has the chance to choose, she should go to an institution where she will have to build a case as to why her program is as good or better than the others instead of going to a program with enough reputation to do that for her. And that’s Leiden’s. You can tell here how many people are asking questions about Leiden and how many others are asking about other unies. Leiden’s faculty is composed not only by academics like William Schabas or Helen Duffy, but you get the chance to be lectured by practitioners who live or visit The Hague.

Leiden has been the university winning the national rounds of the Jessup for (at least) the last 3 years which means students also have the opportunity to compete in Washington, D.C. Leiden is part of The a Fellow Traineeship of the ICJ, which means one student can be selected to law clerk for an ICJ judge for a whole year. Only really prestigious universities participate in this program from which only 15 students are selected (1 per university) and Leiden has got one (at least for the last 4 years). That program is paid by the university as a P1 position at the UN. It is always paid by the universities to the selected students but I think Leiden is the only university participating from NL. There are like only 20 participating each year.

I could continue and I of course I would never dare to say that your experience was not great, but if I had to make that decision I would go to Leiden, then Utrecht and/or Amsterdam and maybe then Groningen. But hey, that’s in NL. Maybe ideally I would have go first to Cambridge and then to a specialized master like ICL in Leiden, Humanitarian in Geneva, and would probably do Human Rights in the US (Notre Dame or Washington University) but that’s because I’m from the American continent and have more chances to ever work for the Inter-American System and not the European.

I’m sorry if I didn’t give all my reasons and that made it sound unfair to you, your uni or your experience. I’m only answering according to my experience. Of course it is Maaal’s decision and shouldn’t be taken solely on one comment in this post, not eve if @personanongrata agrees with me.

UPDATED: Well, sorry I texted everything above from my phone. Now from the computer I can give you some relevant links:
This is the ICJ programme Leiden participates: https://www.icj-cij.org/en/judicial-fellows-program
Leiden has the IHL clinic that can take you to situation countries or to the exchange conference that they prepare in USA: http://kalshovengieskesforum.com/ihl-clinic/ (For example, some of my classmate went to Palestine because they were working on a project about the situation there).
You could be assistant editor of the Leiden Journal of International Law or the International Organization Law Review. You could be research assistant for a couple of professors or volunteer for Helen Duffy´s Human Right Practice. I also got two scholarships for two summer courses, one of them with Duke-Law School for a whole month, the course costs almost 5,000 dollars.
Oh, one last thing, we have an annual meeting of alumni and current student, and we always receive jobs opportunities in our alumni linkedin group directly from our programme coordinator.
https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/leiden-journal-of-international-law
https://brill.com/view/journals/iolr/iolr-overview.xml
https://www.rightsinpractice.org/what-we-do
https://law.duke.edu/summerinstitutes/leiden/
[quote]

Hi Anderson,

Wow, this answer sure made me feel like I have made the best possible choice for me. Thank you so much for all the work you must have put into this reply. If you hadn't put this up I would have for sure not realised the extent of what Leiden has to offer.

I will definitely extend your greetings and look forward to meeting you.

Thanks and warm regards. :)
quote

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