new NY eligibility rules - again!


turns out that apparently starting 2013 all NY bar applicants must complete 50 hours of pro bono work in order to be admitted.

where does this leave foreign llms?! I just got my foreign credentials evaluation allowing me to take the NY bar exam. I was planning to take it on Feb 2013... considering I do not even live in NY should I even bother now? So does this mean a de facto bar for foreign llm's living out of state?
turns out that apparently starting 2013 all NY bar applicants must complete 50 hours of pro bono work in order to be admitted.

where does this leave foreign llms?! I just got my foreign credentials evaluation allowing me to take the NY bar exam. I was planning to take it on Feb 2013... considering I do not even live in NY should I even bother now? So does this mean a de facto bar for foreign llm's living out of state?
quote
Would the savings clause apply in this case? Perhaps this was mandated as a hurdle to keep LL.M.'s from applying?
Would the savings clause apply in this case? Perhaps this was mandated as a hurdle to keep LL.M.'s from applying?
quote
Oh wow. Getting a NY Bar license for out of town LLM applicants will indeed be impossible.

Son getting a NY law license will be fairly impossible for anyone (even JD's). Isn't practicing law without a license well, illegal? I don't see how a solo attorney seeking NY licensing can do this.

Also, who will want to babysit some newbie bar candidate, even if for free? Soon we will have horror stories like in medicine, where doctors graduate med school but aren't doctors because no one will take them for a residency.

I am not sure whether the saving clause would apply, given that the good character comission is the one who will apply this rule.

What do you think fellow LLm's?
Oh wow. Getting a NY Bar license for out of town LLM applicants will indeed be impossible.

Son getting a NY law license will be fairly impossible for anyone (even JD's). Isn't practicing law without a license well, illegal? I don't see how a solo attorney seeking NY licensing can do this.

Also, who will want to babysit some newbie bar candidate, even if for free? Soon we will have horror stories like in medicine, where doctors graduate med school but aren't doctors because no one will take them for a residency.

I am not sure whether the saving clause would apply, given that the good character comission is the one who will apply this rule.

What do you think fellow LLm's?
quote
Oh wow. Getting a NY Bar license for out of town LLM applicants will indeed be impossible.

Son getting a NY law license will be fairly impossible for anyone (even JD's). Isn't practicing law without a license well, illegal? I don't see how a solo attorney seeking NY licensing can do this.

Also, who will want to babysit some newbie bar candidate, even if for free? Soon we will have horror stories like in medicine, where doctors graduate med school but aren't doctors because no one will take them for a residency.

I am not sure whether the saving clause would apply, given that the good character comission is the one who will apply this rule.

What do you think fellow LLm's?


In some websites I read: "The class of 2013 will be the first subject to the new rule."

If this is true, would this mean that those of us who graduated before 2013 are in the clear (i.e. we'd be class of 2012... or 2011 or 2010.. or whatever)? (Some websites, however, and the judge's actual speech say "all applicants").

This would be consistent with the way they handled the foreign education requirement changes recently (they start applying for a particular class, not to everyone).

I thought there would be more replies to this post. Apparently this did not generate too much interest?
<blockquote>Oh wow. Getting a NY Bar license for out of town LLM applicants will indeed be impossible.

Son getting a NY law license will be fairly impossible for anyone (even JD's). Isn't practicing law without a license well, illegal? I don't see how a solo attorney seeking NY licensing can do this.

Also, who will want to babysit some newbie bar candidate, even if for free? Soon we will have horror stories like in medicine, where doctors graduate med school but aren't doctors because no one will take them for a residency.

I am not sure whether the saving clause would apply, given that the good character comission is the one who will apply this rule.

What do you think fellow LLm's?</blockquote>

In some websites I read: "The class of 2013 will be the first subject to the new rule."

If this is true, would this mean that those of us who graduated before 2013 are in the clear (i.e. we'd be class of 2012... or 2011 or 2010.. or whatever)? (Some websites, however, and the judge's actual speech say "all applicants").

This would be consistent with the way they handled the foreign education requirement changes recently (they start applying for a particular class, not to everyone).

I thought there would be more replies to this post. Apparently this did not generate too much interest?

quote
mrasay
turns out that apparently starting 2013 all NY bar applicants must complete 50 hours of pro bono work in order to be admitted.

where does this leave foreign llms?! I just got my foreign credentials evaluation allowing me to take the NY bar exam. I was planning to take it on Feb 2013... considering I do not even live in NY should I even bother now? So does this mean a de facto bar for foreign llm's living out of state?



Here is the THING....PRO BONO is just mainly volunteer work within the legal system. You can volunteer(PRO BONO) assist in a case and soon after you can be certified(law student), you can also represent(within limitation) a client to court.

While doing your JD/LLB/LLM you SHOULD be doing some volunteer(PRO BONO) work anyways, as this is the best way to NETWORK yourselves. Everyone already knows it is difficult to find a job but volunteering will surely give you an upper hand.
<blockquote>turns out that apparently starting 2013 all NY bar applicants must complete 50 hours of pro bono work in order to be admitted.

where does this leave foreign llms?! I just got my foreign credentials evaluation allowing me to take the NY bar exam. I was planning to take it on Feb 2013... considering I do not even live in NY should I even bother now? So does this mean a de facto bar for foreign llm's living out of state?</blockquote>


Here is the THING....PRO BONO is just mainly volunteer work within the legal system. You can volunteer(PRO BONO) assist in a case and soon after you can be certified(law student), you can also represent(within limitation) a client to court.

While doing your JD/LLB/LLM you SHOULD be doing some volunteer(PRO BONO) work anyways, as this is the best way to NETWORK yourselves. Everyone already knows it is difficult to find a job but volunteering will surely give you an upper hand.
quote
mrasay
Oh wow. Getting a NY Bar license for out of town LLM applicants will indeed be impossible.

Son getting a NY law license will be fairly impossible for anyone (even JD's). Isn't practicing law without a license well, illegal? I don't see how a solo attorney seeking NY licensing can do this.

Also, who will want to babysit some newbie bar candidate, even if for free? Soon we will have horror stories like in medicine, where doctors graduate med school but aren't doctors because no one will take them for a residency.

I am not sure whether the saving clause would apply, given that the good character comission is the one who will apply this rule.

What do you think fellow LLm's?


Mike,

It will NOT be impossible to do a PRO BONO(Volunteer) work since you can find a position with a NON - PROFIT organization and gain experience that way.

The term PRO BONO is used by sworn lawyers but it also applies to anyone in the legal realm including law students who has not graduated.

As a PRO BONO(Volunteer Student), you can be certified to represent a client in court but, each state has a limitation to this.
<blockquote>Oh wow. Getting a NY Bar license for out of town LLM applicants will indeed be impossible.

Son getting a NY law license will be fairly impossible for anyone (even JD's). Isn't practicing law without a license well, illegal? I don't see how a solo attorney seeking NY licensing can do this.

Also, who will want to babysit some newbie bar candidate, even if for free? Soon we will have horror stories like in medicine, where doctors graduate med school but aren't doctors because no one will take them for a residency.

I am not sure whether the saving clause would apply, given that the good character comission is the one who will apply this rule.

What do you think fellow LLm's?</blockquote>

Mike,

It will NOT be impossible to do a PRO BONO(Volunteer) work since you can find a position with a NON - PROFIT organization and gain experience that way.

The term PRO BONO is used by sworn lawyers but it also applies to anyone in the legal realm including law students who has not graduated.

As a PRO BONO(Volunteer Student), you can be certified to represent a client in court but, each state has a limitation to this.
quote
Oh wow. Getting a NY Bar license for out of town LLM applicants will indeed be impossible.

Son getting a NY law license will be fairly impossible for anyone (even JD's). Isn't practicing law without a license well, illegal? I don't see how a solo attorney seeking NY licensing can do this.

Also, who will want to babysit some newbie bar candidate, even if for free? Soon we will have horror stories like in medicine, where doctors graduate med school but aren't doctors because no one will take them for a residency.

I am not sure whether the saving clause would apply, given that the good character comission is the one who will apply this rule.

What do you think fellow LLm's?


Mike,

It will NOT be impossible to do a PRO BONO(Volunteer) work since you can find a position with a NON - PROFIT organization and gain experience that way.

The term PRO BONO is used by sworn lawyers but it also applies to anyone in the legal realm including law students who has not graduated.

As a PRO BONO(Volunteer Student), you can be certified to represent a client in court but, each state has a limitation to this.


Hi,

I agree with your point, but some people have already finished their degree program and are/were either studying for the bar or working in a non-legal field. How could they volunteer?

I mean it'd be hard to find the chance to volunteer if they're working full time doing a non-legal job, or studying for the bar.
<blockquote><blockquote>Oh wow. Getting a NY Bar license for out of town LLM applicants will indeed be impossible.

Son getting a NY law license will be fairly impossible for anyone (even JD's). Isn't practicing law without a license well, illegal? I don't see how a solo attorney seeking NY licensing can do this.

Also, who will want to babysit some newbie bar candidate, even if for free? Soon we will have horror stories like in medicine, where doctors graduate med school but aren't doctors because no one will take them for a residency.

I am not sure whether the saving clause would apply, given that the good character comission is the one who will apply this rule.

What do you think fellow LLm's?</blockquote>

Mike,

It will NOT be impossible to do a PRO BONO(Volunteer) work since you can find a position with a NON - PROFIT organization and gain experience that way.

The term PRO BONO is used by sworn lawyers but it also applies to anyone in the legal realm including law students who has not graduated.

As a PRO BONO(Volunteer Student), you can be certified to represent a client in court but, each state has a limitation to this.</blockquote>

Hi,

I agree with your point, but some people have already finished their degree program and are/were either studying for the bar or working in a non-legal field. How could they volunteer?

I mean it'd be hard to find the chance to volunteer if they're working full time doing a non-legal job, or studying for the bar.
quote
mrasay
Oh wow. Getting a NY Bar license for out of town LLM applicants will indeed be impossible.

Son getting a NY law license will be fairly impossible for anyone (even JD's). Isn't practicing law without a license well, illegal? I don't see how a solo attorney seeking NY licensing can do this.

Also, who will want to babysit some newbie bar candidate, even if for free? Soon we will have horror stories like in medicine, where doctors graduate med school but aren't doctors because no one will take them for a residency.

I am not sure whether the saving clause would apply, given that the good character comission is the one who will apply this rule.

What do you think fellow LLm's?


Mike,

It will NOT be impossible to do a PRO BONO(Volunteer) work since you can find a position with a NON - PROFIT organization and gain experience that way.

The term PRO BONO is used by sworn lawyers but it also applies to anyone in the legal realm including law students who has not graduated.

As a PRO BONO(Volunteer Student), you can be certified to represent a client in court but, each state has a limitation to this.


Hi,

I agree with your point, but some people have already finished their degree program and are/were either studying for the bar or working in a non-legal field. How could they volunteer?

I mean it'd be hard to find the chance to volunteer if they're working full time doing a non-legal job, or studying for the bar.

***************************************************************************
Hi Dinesh,

Unfortunately, doing Pro Bono or networking would be the only way to go at this point. Even if the individual has to quit their job and take a loan.

If the individual is studying the bar then finish that and try to find time to do volunteer. but if you are trying to sit for the bar in NY then there is really no choice but to do the 50 hours first then apply to sit for the bar.

If the individual is working, if possible get some time off from work and try to volunteer a couple of hours per day or per week.

Unfortunately it seems that there is no way of getting around this Pro Bono situation if one wants to sit for the bar or even be considered for a position in a firm.

I have called several states to see the best way to sit for the bar and some of them like California do not require the individual to have 50 hours of Pro Bono. But keep in mind that the eligibility rules changes every year and it makes it difficult every time.
<blockquote><blockquote><blockquote>Oh wow. Getting a NY Bar license for out of town LLM applicants will indeed be impossible.

Son getting a NY law license will be fairly impossible for anyone (even JD's). Isn't practicing law without a license well, illegal? I don't see how a solo attorney seeking NY licensing can do this.

Also, who will want to babysit some newbie bar candidate, even if for free? Soon we will have horror stories like in medicine, where doctors graduate med school but aren't doctors because no one will take them for a residency.

I am not sure whether the saving clause would apply, given that the good character comission is the one who will apply this rule.

What do you think fellow LLm's?</blockquote>

Mike,

It will NOT be impossible to do a PRO BONO(Volunteer) work since you can find a position with a NON - PROFIT organization and gain experience that way.

The term PRO BONO is used by sworn lawyers but it also applies to anyone in the legal realm including law students who has not graduated.

As a PRO BONO(Volunteer Student), you can be certified to represent a client in court but, each state has a limitation to this.</blockquote>

Hi,

I agree with your point, but some people have already finished their degree program and are/were either studying for the bar or working in a non-legal field. How could they volunteer?

I mean it'd be hard to find the chance to volunteer if they're working full time doing a non-legal job, or studying for the bar.</blockquote>
***************************************************************************
Hi Dinesh,

Unfortunately, doing Pro Bono or networking would be the only way to go at this point. Even if the individual has to quit their job and take a loan.

If the individual is studying the bar then finish that and try to find time to do volunteer. but if you are trying to sit for the bar in NY then there is really no choice but to do the 50 hours first then apply to sit for the bar.

If the individual is working, if possible get some time off from work and try to volunteer a couple of hours per day or per week.

Unfortunately it seems that there is no way of getting around this Pro Bono situation if one wants to sit for the bar or even be considered for a position in a firm.

I have called several states to see the best way to sit for the bar and some of them like California do not require the individual to have 50 hours of Pro Bono. But keep in mind that the eligibility rules changes every year and it makes it difficult every time.
quote
bufbuf
and if you are a foreign student, maybe there will be measures to ensure foreign students can comply with this 50-hour pro bono requirement (hopefully)?

I guess we will have to wait for the guidelines.

"The rules implementing the new requirement are not expected to be available until September 2012. No further information on the initiative is available at this time. The Board will update this website as more information on the new initiative becomes available." - http://www.nybarexam.org/
and if you are a foreign student, maybe there will be measures to ensure foreign students can comply with this 50-hour pro bono requirement (hopefully)?

I guess we will have to wait for the guidelines.

"The rules implementing the new requirement are not expected to be available until September 2012. No further information on the initiative is available at this time. The Board will update this website as more information on the new initiative becomes available." - http://www.nybarexam.org/
quote
iwtlii
Spoke to people at the NY Bar - You can only start earning pro bono hours toward the required 50, after you pass the NY bar
Spoke to people at the NY Bar - You can only start earning pro bono hours toward the required 50, after you pass the NY bar
quote
bufbuf
Thanks - would you also happen to know how? ie how will the pro bono system work exactly......
Thanks - would you also happen to know how? ie how will the pro bono system work exactly......
quote
iwtlii
Thanks - would you also happen to know how? ie how will the pro bono system work exactly......


"An advisory committee has been formed which will make recommendations on how to implement the new pro bono service requirement. The rules implementing the new requirement are not expected to be available until September 2012. No further information on the initiative is available at this time. The Board will update this website as more information on the new initiative becomes available."
(source: http://www.nybarexam.org)
<blockquote>Thanks - would you also happen to know how? ie how will the pro bono system work exactly......</blockquote>

"An advisory committee has been formed which will make recommendations on how to implement the new pro bono service requirement. The rules implementing the new requirement are not expected to be available until September 2012. No further information on the initiative is available at this time. The Board will update this website as more information on the new initiative becomes available."
(source: http://www.nybarexam.org)
quote
bufbuf
Thought you may have more info - thanks again! :)
Thought you may have more info - thanks again! :)
quote
if we pass the NY BAR Exam with LLM Degree , is it elgible for NY only or any other states
if we pass the NY BAR Exam with LLM Degree , is it elgible for NY only or any other states
quote
mrasay
It's only for the NY state. Each state has their own bar exam. Also EXTERNAL LLB will NEVER be accepted in NY even after a US LLM.
It's only for the NY state. Each state has their own bar exam. Also EXTERNAL LLB will NEVER be accepted in NY even after a US LLM.
quote
Okay Thanks for your reply,

if we do LLM in Newyork , are we elgible to write the texas bar exam, and practice the law
Okay Thanks for your reply,

if we do LLM in Newyork , are we elgible to write the texas bar exam, and practice the law

quote
NebNeb
So, it seems that for foreigners doing a LLM the 50 hour pro bono rule would apply if they are planning to get admitted in NY after Jan 2015. Which basically would mean anyone starting in fall 2013.

http://www.nycourts.gov/attorneys/probono/FAQsBarAdmission.pdf

It seems that the 50 hour requirement can be fulfilled during or after the LLM degree. Does anyone have any insider scoop on whether schools will offer some support or assistance in filling this requirement? If I am not mistaken some schools already require JDs to do some pro bono work so I guess it would not be such a problem for offering the same possibilities for LLMs.

I mean, I would like to assume the schools would make every effort in making sure that LLMs too can qualify to be admitted to the bar....
So, it seems that for foreigners doing a LLM the 50 hour pro bono rule would apply if they are planning to get admitted in NY after Jan 2015. Which basically would mean anyone starting in fall 2013.

http://www.nycourts.gov/attorneys/probono/FAQsBarAdmission.pdf

It seems that the 50 hour requirement can be fulfilled during or after the LLM degree. Does anyone have any insider scoop on whether schools will offer some support or assistance in filling this requirement? If I am not mistaken some schools already require JDs to do some pro bono work so I guess it would not be such a problem for offering the same possibilities for LLMs.

I mean, I would like to assume the schools would make every effort in making sure that LLMs too can qualify to be admitted to the bar....
quote
Oliver_J
It seems you can complete the pro bono requirement in your home country --

"9. Where can my pro bono work be performed?
Your 50 hours of pro bono work may be performed anywhere that is convenient for you, so long as the work complies with all other aspects of the Pro Bono Requirement. You may satisfy all or some of the 50 hours in another state or a foreign country, provided the nature and supervision of your service complies with the pro bono requirements."

-- http://www.nycourts.gov/attorneys/probono/FAQsBarAdmission.pdf
It seems you can complete the pro bono requirement in your home country --

"9. Where can my pro bono work be performed?
Your 50 hours of pro bono work may be performed anywhere that is convenient for you, so long as the work complies with all other aspects of the Pro Bono Requirement. You may satisfy all or some of the 50 hours in another state or a foreign country, provided the nature and supervision of your service complies with the pro bono requirements."

-- http://www.nycourts.gov/attorneys/probono/FAQsBarAdmission.pdf
quote
NebNeb
It seems you can complete the pro bono requirement in your home country --

"9. Where can my pro bono work be performed?
Your 50 hours of pro bono work may be performed anywhere that is convenient for you, so long as the work complies with all other aspects of the Pro Bono Requirement. You may satisfy all or some of the 50 hours in another state or a foreign country, provided the nature and supervision of your service complies with the pro bono requirements."

-- http://www.nycourts.gov/attorneys/probono/FAQsBarAdmission.pdf


Yes... However according answer number 3:

"If you are an LL.M. candidate, you may complete your 50 hours of pro bono work either during or after your LL.M. course of study."

Which kinda makes the possibility to do it in home country pointless for people wanting to stay and work in NY and not just get admitted for fun since it means you cannot fulfill the requirement on before hand. Please do correct me if I am wrong. These bar rules are quite confusing.
<blockquote>It seems you can complete the pro bono requirement in your home country --

"9. Where can my pro bono work be performed?
Your 50 hours of pro bono work may be performed anywhere that is convenient for you, so long as the work complies with all other aspects of the Pro Bono Requirement. You may satisfy all or some of the 50 hours in another state or a foreign country, provided the nature and supervision of your service complies with the pro bono requirements."

-- http://www.nycourts.gov/attorneys/probono/FAQsBarAdmission.pdf</blockquote>

Yes... However according answer number 3:

"If you are an LL.M. candidate, you may complete your 50 hours of pro bono work either during or after your LL.M. course of study."

Which kinda makes the possibility to do it in home country pointless for people wanting to stay and work in NY and not just get admitted for fun since it means you cannot fulfill the requirement on before hand. Please do correct me if I am wrong. These bar rules are quite confusing.
quote

Reply to Post