Plagiarism in LLM applications


There is something that has really ticked me off.
A friend of mine applied to Columbia and NYU this year. I know for a fact that he cheated on his applications i.e. his SOP was a rip off of a previous applicant; his essay was a shorter version of a published article (obviously not published by him). Now he has been accepted at both the places. Is there no way to check plagiarism in the applications? Are there any procedures to check the originality of articles/SOPs?

There is something that has really ticked me off.
A friend of mine applied to Columbia and NYU this year. I know for a fact that he cheated on his applications – i.e. his SOP was a rip off of a previous applicant; his essay was a shorter version of a published article (obviously not published by him). Now he has been accepted at both the places. Is there no way to check plagiarism in the applications? Are there any procedures to check the originality of articles/SOPs?
quote
mikado

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdopMqrftXs

There is for sure, but some people will always get through the system...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdopMqrftXs

There is for sure, but some people will always get through the system...
quote
xqw

Such behavior should not be encouraged. your friend does not deserve the admissions or your friendship. I simply believe that your friend will not get far so easily. Just don't encourage it.

Such behavior should not be encouraged. your friend does not deserve the admissions or your friendship. I simply believe that your friend will not get far so easily. Just don't encourage it.
quote
mikado

I simply believe that your friend will not get far so easily.


Exactly.

You can always get into Columbia or Yale, a top law firm, but one day you eventually can't get any help...

<blockquote>I simply believe that your friend will not get far so easily.</blockquote>

Exactly.

You can always get into Columbia or Yale, a top law firm, but one day you eventually can't get any help...
quote

I would be really annoyed too! But mikado's link made me laugh.

Its true though - your friend may be lucky this time, but if he continues this behaviour, he will be found out. Luck will only run so far for a person. Even Madoff got caught eventually.

I would be really annoyed too! But mikado's link made me laugh.

Its true though - your friend may be lucky this time, but if he continues this behaviour, he will be found out. Luck will only run so far for a person. Even Madoff got caught eventually.
quote
Freckles

It is quite peculiar that Law Schools would go through the trouble of having to assess multiple submitted documents on each applicant but would not bother to have them checked by the online plagiarism system. I would have thought they be more careful in who they accept. However, everyone here is right, too bad for this applicant and the two Law Schools. Once a plagiarist, always a plagiarist :)

It is quite peculiar that Law Schools would go through the trouble of having to assess multiple submitted documents on each applicant but would not bother to have them checked by the online plagiarism system. I would have thought they be more careful in who they accept. However, everyone here is right, too bad for this applicant and the two Law Schools. Once a plagiarist, always a plagiarist :)
quote
Aky

Just by curiosity, is your friend registered in the website ? And from which country is he ?

Just by curiosity, is your friend registered in the website ? And from which country is he ?
quote
mp89

what's a SOP?

what's a SOP?
quote
ringirl

I believe SOP is Statement of Purpose..
It's so unfair.. but I agree with all, that person won't get away with it for ever.
It would be lovely to have more details about him/her.. If I could do something about it, I would certainly do it.. Making a phone call would be a simple way to start.

I believe SOP is Statement of Purpose..
It's so unfair.. but I agree with all, that person won't get away with it for ever.
It would be lovely to have more details about him/her.. If I could do something about it, I would certainly do it.. Making a phone call would be a simple way to start.
quote
MAB79

I believe SOP is Statement of Purpose..
It's so unfair.. but I agree with all, that person won't get away with it for ever.
It would be lovely to have more details about him/her.. If I could do something about it, I would certainly do it.. Making a phone call would be a simple way to start.


Your friend for sure did not what shows a pretty good character. But what exactly is bothering you so much that I feel as if you would like to blackmail him? Is that better?

Further, he wasn't able to cheat on his credentials, right? What essay are you talking about. Neither NYU not Columbia require a specific essay beside the SOP.

I am pretty sure that somehow most people use ideas when writing or creating something. Usually, nothing is written, it is rewritten. At least my Professor said that.

I really understand that you might feel a little bit weird about it but I do not quite get why that bothers you so much. It's your friend. Talk about it directly with him. Don't blame about him in here. Then, think of the fact that he obviously got into schools that require a very strong academic record. This can't be faked...so, he can be that bad, your so called friend....

<blockquote>I believe SOP is Statement of Purpose..
It's so unfair.. but I agree with all, that person won't get away with it for ever.
It would be lovely to have more details about him/her.. If I could do something about it, I would certainly do it.. Making a phone call would be a simple way to start.
</blockquote>

Your friend for sure did not what shows a pretty good character. But what exactly is bothering you so much that I feel as if you would like to blackmail him? Is that better?

Further, he wasn't able to cheat on his credentials, right? What essay are you talking about. Neither NYU not Columbia require a specific essay beside the SOP.

I am pretty sure that somehow most people use ideas when writing or creating something. Usually, nothing is written, it is rewritten. At least my Professor said that.

I really understand that you might feel a little bit weird about it but I do not quite get why that bothers you so much. It's your friend. Talk about it directly with him. Don't blame about him in here. Then, think of the fact that he obviously got into schools that require a very strong academic record. This can't be faked...so, he can be that bad, your so called friend....
quote
dbk

True. A few people cheat on their credentials so plagiarism is really not surprising. Plus, it's almost impossible to detect plagiarism...

True. A few people cheat on their credentials so plagiarism is really not surprising. Plus, it's almost impossible to detect plagiarism...
quote
xqw


I really understand that you might feel a little bit weird about it but I do not quite get why that bothers you so much. It's your friend. Talk about it directly with him. Don't blame about him in here. Then, think of the fact that he obviously got into schools that require a very strong academic record. This can't be faked...so, he can be that bad, your so called friend....


Agree. To the thread starter, If you take him as a friend, you talk to him, you never tell on him.

<blockquote>
I really understand that you might feel a little bit weird about it but I do not quite get why that bothers you so much. It's your friend. Talk about it directly with him. Don't blame about him in here. Then, think of the fact that he obviously got into schools that require a very strong academic record. This can't be faked...so, he can be that bad, your so called friend....
</blockquote>

Agree. To the thread starter, If you take him as a friend, you talk to him, you never tell on him.
quote
dggc

I couldn't say anything about plagiarism because I have never seen it, but I have seen some applicants who got through into the Ivy League with huge lies on their resumes..
Teacher's aids became T.A's, interns at law firms became attorneys, interns at State Court became clerks, bank clerks who turned into analysts or managers, and so on...
I will refrain from further details about it, but while academic records can't be faked they can be manipulated especially at schools where there is no official ranking available. I think it's just sad...in the other hand, good faith should presumed from all applicants until otherwise proven, because after all, if mistakes are to be expected to happen in the selection process, it would best if they benefited dishonest candidates before they harmed a single honest candidate in the competition by wrongly casting a shade of doubt on his/her application materials..I don't see how to solve such problem..

I couldn't say anything about plagiarism because I have never seen it, but I have seen some applicants who got through into the Ivy League with huge lies on their resumes..
Teacher's aids became T.A's, interns at law firms became attorneys, interns at State Court became clerks, bank clerks who turned into analysts or managers, and so on...
I will refrain from further details about it, but while academic records can't be faked they can be manipulated especially at schools where there is no official ranking available. I think it's just sad...in the other hand, good faith should presumed from all applicants until otherwise proven, because after all, if mistakes are to be expected to happen in the selection process, it would best if they benefited dishonest candidates before they harmed a single honest candidate in the competition by wrongly casting a shade of doubt on his/her application materials..I don't see how to solve such problem..
quote

"I know for a fact that he cheated on his applications...[to both NYU and Columbia]".

Yeah, right. So your evidence is hearsay. You were not standing over your friend's shoulder watching him cheat as he completed his NYU and Columbia applications. So my inclination would be to take everything you write with a grain of salt.

And also to emphasise that, in the final analysis, LL.M. selection committees are more interested in cold hard examination results on primary degrees (as opposed to personal statements and essays).

"I know for a fact that he cheated on his applications...[to both NYU and Columbia]".

Yeah, right. So your evidence is hearsay. You were not standing over your friend's shoulder watching him cheat as he completed his NYU and Columbia applications. So my inclination would be to take everything you write with a grain of salt.

And also to emphasise that, in the final analysis, LL.M. selection committees are more interested in cold hard examination results on primary degrees (as opposed to personal statements and essays).
quote
ringirl

I dont want to make a case here, but the way omna... put it out, it's not just re-writing, its about someone using another applicant's essay and copying exactly an article, that is plagiarism not getting inspired after reading a book or catching a movie.. that person has not done a honest work about him/herself nor him/her goals, values, whatever one writes about in an essay.

And even if he/she is a superior student, we all know that's just not enough to get in a top school. If it were we wouldn't have this board in the first place with people trying to get info and learn about the whole process.

I could drop a line about that friend relationship, but I'm not interested.. In omna..'s place, I would just try to jeopardize that chetear.

I dont want to make a case here, but the way omna... put it out, it's not just re-writing, its about someone using another applicant's essay and copying exactly an article, that is plagiarism not getting inspired after reading a book or catching a movie.. that person has not done a honest work about him/herself nor him/her goals, values, whatever one writes about in an essay.

And even if he/she is a superior student, we all know that's just not enough to get in a top school. If it were we wouldn't have this board in the first place with people trying to get info and learn about the whole process.

I could drop a line about that friend relationship, but I'm not interested.. In omna..'s place, I would just try to jeopardize that chetear.
quote

The reason hearsay evidence is usually not admissible in court cases is because it is inherently unreliable. The same is true of hearsay evidence offered by posters on LL.M. threads.

Ringirl had better to learn to be a bit more sceptical before believing everything she reads on this forum without question. Seriously, ringirl, do you think the original post on this thread is true just because the original poster alleges it is so? Learn to distinguish between fact and allegation. Especially if you want to be a practising lawyer.

The reason hearsay evidence is usually not admissible in court cases is because it is inherently unreliable. The same is true of hearsay evidence offered by posters on LL.M. threads.

Ringirl had better to learn to be a bit more sceptical before believing everything she reads on this forum without question. Seriously, ringirl, do you think the original post on this thread is true just because the original poster alleges it is so? Learn to distinguish between fact and allegation. Especially if you want to be a practising lawyer.
quote
Aky

Come back to earth, Trinity, we're not in a court.


--

Copying an essay, and an article is plagiarism. Being admitted to a LLM Program, and in this case Columbia, with such methods is a shame.

The best way to be sure if he was honest or if he cheated, would be to contact Columbia, telling them about the doubts, and it's their work to verify if it's true or not (especially about the article). Then, they would make themselves the decision.

Because, right now that cheater (if he really cheated) is taking the seat of someone else (who can be honest), and it's a shame. Yes, it could be my seat as it could be anyone's seat here.

Come back to earth, Trinity, we're not in a court.


--

Copying an essay, and an article is plagiarism. Being admitted to a LLM Program, and in this case Columbia, with such methods is a shame.

The best way to be sure if he was honest or if he cheated, would be to contact Columbia, telling them about the doubts, and it's their work to verify if it's true or not (especially about the article). Then, they would make themselves the decision.

Because, right now that cheater (if he really cheated) is taking the seat of someone else (who can be honest), and it's a shame. Yes, it could be my seat as it could be anyone's seat here.
quote
OK_Compute...

This is probably getting off topic, but it could provide a fascinating little experiment in comparative law. Let's suppose the OP heard the LLM applicant say, "I copied my SOP! I stole it from someone else! And now I'm admitted! Isn't life great?".

In the USA, in a lawsuit in which the LLM applicant is a party (say, the LLM applicant sued the OP for defamation), the statement is not hearsay if offered against the LLM applicant. Fed. R. Evid. 801(d)(2). What would happen in your country?

This is probably getting off topic, but it could provide a fascinating little experiment in comparative law. Let's suppose the OP heard the LLM applicant say, "I copied my SOP! I stole it from someone else! And now I'm admitted! Isn't life great?".

In the USA, in a lawsuit in which the LLM applicant is a party (say, the LLM applicant sued the OP for defamation), the statement is not hearsay if offered against the LLM applicant. Fed. R. Evid. 801(d)(2). What would happen in your country?
quote

I don't have the enthusiasm to research the answer to your question.

But I would imagine that, in the USA, the attorney representing the alleged plagiarist would be able to cross-examine the person making the allegation in court.

Sadly, we have no facility for cross-examining the OP on this thread. My instincts tell me the OP is a troll and that he/she posted this thread just to provoke an inflammatory reaction from some of the other posters.

I don't have the enthusiasm to research the answer to your question.

But I would imagine that, in the USA, the attorney representing the alleged plagiarist would be able to cross-examine the person making the allegation in court.

Sadly, we have no facility for cross-examining the OP on this thread. My instincts tell me the OP is a troll and that he/she posted this thread just to provoke an inflammatory reaction from some of the other posters.
quote
ringirl

ringirl had better learn bla bla

you are REALLY FUNNY trinity. It's fun to see how you want to play lawyer here in this annonimus virtual board
Won't waste more words on you, obviously have a lot to deal with your attitude problems in real world.

Best luck anyway

ringirl had better learn bla bla

you are REALLY FUNNY trinity. It's fun to see how you want to play lawyer here in this annonimus virtual board
Won't waste more words on you, obviously have a lot to deal with your attitude problems in real world.

Best luck anyway
quote

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