Hi all, this is a soon to be 4th year law student from India, interested in pursuing LLM in International Law from USA. There are a few things that i would like to know...

1) what are my best/practical options with regards to the course as well as Jobops post LLM, both in and out of USA

2) what are the unsaid laws which are considered when taking in an applicant and any other things which might improve my chances.

3) when to actually start the application procedure so that maximum coordination with regards to financial assistance is achieved.

I have done a bit of looking up myself but getting too many things all at once... so if u guys could direct me it would be really appreciated.

Thanx in advance.

Hi mokambo,

1) what are my best/practical options with regards to the course as well as Jobops post LLM, both in and out of USA
Not sure what you mean regarding courses. The common practice is doing an LLM in the most prestigious law school you can possibly get in, and use fields of law/courses/faculty you prefer and scholarships to decide between schools of equivalent reputation (for instance people accepted at both Columbia and NYU tend to favor NYU if they're more interested in tax law).

Job prospects: as a non US citizen, close to null in the US (though there are dozens of lucky exceptions every year). Excellent in India as you'll probably take priority over any other Indian candidate. I'm not familiar with the Indian job market so I'm not certain whether they'll pay you more, and if they do, whether it'll be enough to recoup your investment.

2) what are the unsaid laws which are considered when taking in an applicant and any other things which might improve my chances.

Grades and ranking in your home country, work experience, extracurriculum activities (volunteering, law review editor, awards, athletic trophies, etc) and probably a quota per country. Universities try to diversify their student body: you might get rejected even though you were better in every aspect than someone say from Switzerland if you were the 5th Indian to apply and he was the only Swiss.

3) when to actually start the application procedure so that maximum coordination with regards to financial assistance is achieved.
Application deadline for the best law schools is in November/December. The letters of recommendation and grade transcript are the most annoying to get, so start no later than September.

Thanx Hedek..
just a clarification... with regards to ur opinion abt jobs in USA, is it applicable if u clear the Bar Exam, or do u need to be an American citizen to sit for it in the first place??

One more thing.. how about Job ops outside USA.. as in UK, Singapore, etc

Without an American JD, you can only sit the NY and California bar exams.

Citizenship is only part of the problem. Not being American means the company interested in hiring you will also have to sort out your visa. That's extra costs and hassle compared to US candidates. It's not impossible, but it surely puts you at a disadvantage compared to them.

LL.M international graduates are NEVER in competition with US trained lawyers. Taking a 1 year LL.M in school regardless the prestige of the institution cannot give you the same qualification of a J.D. graduate.

However, it is possible to find a good job if you pass the bar exam and for tax candidates CPA exam. If you dont dont satisfy these pre - requesites is very unlikely you will find a job especially a good one . In any case, you need to consider it as temporary experience 2/3 but not more. American are liberal but not stupid.

LL.M international graduates are NEVER in competition with US trained lawyers. Taking a 1 year LL.M in school regardless the prestige of the institution cannot give you the same qualification of a J.D. graduate.

However, it is possible to find a good job if you pass the bar exam and for tax candidates CPA exam. If you dont dont satisfy these pre - requesites is very unlikely you will find a job especially a good one . In any case, you need to consider it as temporary experience 2/3 but not more. American are liberal but not stupid.

Top US firms would take an Oxford or Cambridge LLB graduate with a NY bar over thousands of JD graduates. They'd also take a foreign lawyer if business has dramatically increased with his home country in recent years (e.g. Chinese candidates with US LLM hired in NY). American are patriots but not stupid ;-)

American are liberal but not stupid.

I don't see how employing LLM students is necessarily stupid. Of course, you need to make sure that they satisfy certain requirments such as a certain level of English language proficiency and an understanding of the common law system, presumably because their own system operates on the very same framework the US system does. I've seen loads of friends over the years take up associate posts in the US (and not because they serve as conduits to their home state - many come from home states the firm doesn't even do business in!) and who have done extremely well for themselves. Too many people put the ability of the JD to broaden perspectives on a pedestal - sure, the JD allows for an extended period of education in the US, and, for sure, if you want to get a job in the US, take the JD not the LLM, but many top firms have hired LLMs and I don't think it's stupid. On the contrary, to me, it is just plain common sense to recruit talented people who happen to be in the LLM as opposed to JD program (while using the JD program as your main source of incoming associate pool).

Of course, in today's market, LLMs have precious little opportunities to find jobs in the US market but that doesn't detract from the argument that, at least conceptually, American employers who are sufficiently enlightened should continue to have a broad recruitment policy (which taps the brightest members of LLM cohorts whilst using the JD program as the main recruitment pool). I understand that may not comport entirely with conventional practice but to me, a statement like "American are liberal but not stupid" really makes me wonder whether you would gain anything from an LLM since you appear to concede your own supposed inferiority to the "superior" JD students (put simply, why go for an "inferior" course if you think its "inferior" in the first place?).

well maybe some people think its inferior to do an LLM with the aim to stay in the US and look for a job. But yasminm take into account that most people do an llm for "international experience", english skills and some common law knowledge to go back to their home country and get a well paid job in an international law firm there. Just because people have a different opinion doesn't make them gain less from an LLM program!!

You're no doubt right MAP2009 - many people "do an llm for "international experience", english skills and some common law knowledge to go back to their home country and get a well paid job in an international law firm there". But since many also do it to find a job in the US (and at least for the past few years, some have been successful and have gone on to carve extremely successful careers in the US), I still don't see how that point translates into American employers being "stupid" for hiring LLM students - an individual LLM student's desire to return to his home country (a fair choice of course) upon the conclusion of the LLM course should be no reflection of the level of collective ability of LLM students as a whole and should definitely be no reflection of the intelligence of employers in deciding whether or not to hire LLM students (particularly if they pick and choose those who they believe can clearly thrive in the US legal environment).

Yansmin,

very good point you raise. I think this is often overlooked in the discussion re: job prospects for LLM students.
I'd just like to add that to my knowledge, those gifted and skilled LLMs who are hired by law firms in the US are all specialized in corporate law. This is probably the only area where a foreign law graduate can land a job in the US without a JD. But please correct me if your experience tells you I'm wrong.

I have friends who have taken on portfolios outside the conventional corporate law (litigation, project finance, arbitration etc) career, but you're right - the large majority of LLM students do end up doing corporate work if they stay on in the US. That's not the only area where they can work of course, but many of the other areas (litigation for example) tend to be slightly more insular (the same applies to all countries) than corporate law.

Besides, to do litigation you really have to master the language the same way an American does...which I think it's really very difficult to achieve for a non-native english speaker (even after several years in the US or UK).

You're no doubt right MAP2009 - many people "do an llm for "international experience", english skills and some common law knowledge to go back to their home country and get a well paid job in an international law firm there". But since many also do it to find a job in the US (and at least for the past few years, some have been successful and have gone on to carve extremely successful careers in the US), I still don't see how that point translates into American employers being "stupid" for hiring LLM students - an individual LLM student's desire to return to his home country (a fair choice of course) upon the conclusion of the LLM course should be no reflection of the level of collective ability of LLM students as a whole and should definitely be no reflection of the intelligence of employers in deciding whether or not to hire LLM students (particularly if they pick and choose those who they believe can clearly thrive in the US legal environment).

I'm not surprised at all that you misinterpret what I said . Plus be nice not post romances. if you want a carreeer in a law firm you neeed a J.D. there is no discussion about that.

We'll just have to agree to disagree SmartLawyer I'm afraid. I stand completely by what I said though I accept you have a differing opinion on that (which is of course, fair enough) :)

We'll just have to agree to disagree SmartLawyer I'm afraid. I stand completely by what I said though I accept you have a differing opinion on that (which is of course, fair enough) :)

of course it is thoguh is much more than just fair. I don't need your approval.

You don't need yasminm approval but with your attitude and your lack of english skills because you don't even know what she is saying, I can see why you think you're inferior

I have friends who have taken on portfolios outside the conventional corporate law (litigation, project finance, arbitration etc) career, but you're right - the large majority of LLM students do end up doing corporate work if they stay on in the US. That's not the only area where they can work of course, but many of the other areas (litigation for example) tend to be slightly more insular (the same applies to all countries) than corporate law.

I agree. Basically, Transactional practice, arbitration, and tax are the main ones usually (...) available. Sometimes antitrust issues if you have experience with it. it's also not temporary ideally. there are many foreign llm graduates who have been working in the U.S for many years.