LLM advice


melly8910

Hey,

I'm going to Uni in the US from the UK but I dont understand the system?? What is the LLM and when do you get it? Should i get a JD first or is it pointless to get a JD?? Do I go Stanford and do a JD as my major? Or do I have to do a major in something then go to Law School?? As you can see I'm very confused and would like to clear it all up before I apply. I'm considering Stanford, Harvard, Berkely and USC and I want to do Sports Law as I want to become a sports agent. Does anyone now any other majoprs which'll help or courses??

PLEASE HELP,

Hey,

I'm going to Uni in the US from the UK but I dont understand the system?? What is the LLM and when do you get it? Should i get a JD first or is it pointless to get a JD?? Do I go Stanford and do a JD as my major? Or do I have to do a major in something then go to Law School?? As you can see I'm very confused and would like to clear it all up before I apply. I'm considering Stanford, Harvard, Berkely and USC and I want to do Sports Law as I want to become a sports agent. Does anyone now any other majoprs which'll help or courses??

PLEASE HELP,
quote
tripplett

hello. You can only get a LLM if you have the equivalent of a law degree from another courntry. If you want to STAY in the US it far better to have a JD than an LLM (for employment purposes that is). THus AFTER you finish university, you would apply for the JD.

Many schools offer courses in Sports law, but not many. Other courses which would be helpful are entertainment law, negotitations, advanced contracts and some IP (intellectual property courses). I practiced law in LA and knew some people who did entertainment law -- my understanding is that (as with many things) connections is the real key.

All the above schools are excellent -- but competition to get in is FIERCE. You may wish to consider some other school as well. Good luck!

hello. You can only get a LLM if you have the equivalent of a law degree from another courntry. If you want to STAY in the US it far better to have a JD than an LLM (for employment purposes that is). THus AFTER you finish university, you would apply for the JD.

Many schools offer courses in Sports law, but not many. Other courses which would be helpful are entertainment law, negotitations, advanced contracts and some IP (intellectual property courses). I practiced law in LA and knew some people who did entertainment law -- my understanding is that (as with many things) connections is the real key.

All the above schools are excellent -- but competition to get in is FIERCE. You may wish to consider some other school as well. Good luck!
quote
Bitsou

Hello,

Usually, JD's are for US students who already have a BA. It takes two to three years if I'm right. Usually, foreign applicants do an LLM which is a one year postgraduation degree.

It's true that if you want to live in the US and work there, a JD will probably open you more doors even though you may get a job with an LLM as well. However, apart from the fact that you need to get admitted, to make a JD is a financial burden...so think carefully about it.

As far as Law Schools are concerned, if you want to do Sports Law, you could also try and enrol at UCLA which is quite well-known in entertainment law and this kind of stuff (Hollywood is not that far :) ). It would also allow you to make sure that you're admitted at one good Law School (USC may already be one of them) as the others are indeed harder to get in.

All the best

Hello,

Usually, JD's are for US students who already have a BA. It takes two to three years if I'm right. Usually, foreign applicants do an LLM which is a one year postgraduation degree.

It's true that if you want to live in the US and work there, a JD will probably open you more doors even though you may get a job with an LLM as well. However, apart from the fact that you need to get admitted, to make a JD is a financial burden...so think carefully about it.

As far as Law Schools are concerned, if you want to do Sports Law, you could also try and enrol at UCLA which is quite well-known in entertainment law and this kind of stuff (Hollywood is not that far :) ). It would also allow you to make sure that you're admitted at one good Law School (USC may already be one of them) as the others are indeed harder to get in.

All the best
quote

hi,
i am considering doing LLM online. is it of any worth? i was palnning to go to the SMU, Texas, but could get the required loan as i am on H4 visa. thought i online LLM could help me. i am a law graduate from india and have 3 years work experience. what are the job prospects doing LLM here and also after doing LLM online.

please advice.

priya

hi,
i am considering doing LLM online. is it of any worth? i was palnning to go to the SMU, Texas, but could get the required loan as i am on H4 visa. thought i online LLM could help me. i am a law graduate from india and have 3 years work experience. what are the job prospects doing LLM here and also after doing LLM online.

please advice.

priya
quote
Rhianna

Hey, I am about to go to university in the Uk in september and my goal is to apply to the bar in california and work there! However, I am confused as to whether an LLM aswell as my LLB will be subsantial enough to be admitted. Does anybody know anything about this? Or will I have to do my BVC before I go, so is it the BVC or the LLM? Please reply, if you have any advice on this, thankyou! : )

Hey, I am about to go to university in the Uk in september and my goal is to apply to the bar in california and work there! However, I am confused as to whether an LLM aswell as my LLB will be subsantial enough to be admitted. Does anybody know anything about this? Or will I have to do my BVC before I go, so is it the BVC or the LLM? Please reply, if you have any advice on this, thankyou! : )
quote
Nikolas

Did you have a look at these discussions yet:
http://www.llm-guide.com/board/5074
http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120
?

Did you have a look at these discussions yet:
http://www.llm-guide.com/board/5074
http://www.llm-guide.com/board/120
?
quote
lawfool

hey priyaksaxena

am from india too.. but am a law student still. hopefully wanna pursue an llm in 2007. where did u do ur llb from and where r u working? and finally are u going to the us this year?

hey priyaksaxena

am from india too.. but am a law student still. hopefully wanna pursue an llm in 2007. where did u do ur llb from and where r u working? and finally are u going to the us this year?
quote

Lot of confusion seen here on degrees. Here is a summary of US law degrees.

The good law schools in US are those that are ABA (american bar assoc.) approved. All such ABA approved law schools require that applicants MUST have a 4 year Bachelors Degree (in any major) and take LSAT exam to be admitted.

Historical note: Before the 4 year Bachelors degree became a ABA accreditation requirement, some law schools let students in without Bachelors degrees and hence they called the law degrees LL.B. (Bachelor of Legal Letters).
With the ABA requirement that ALL MUST HAVE A BACHELORS DEGREE BEFORE BEING ADMITTED TO LAW SCHOOL, the degree name was changed (being a 7 year degree normally then) to J.D. (Juris Doctorate). To best of my knowledge, no US law schools award LL.B. degrees any longer (all have gone to J.D.)

The J.D. degree is normally a full time, 3 year program. The first year course of study normally offers no course choices. The next 2 years offers some choices, but withing some defined categories. Thus the extent of specialization by course choices and foucus is very limited. However, some focus can lead to a "concentration" or "certification in a speciality" at some law schools and in some areas of law. Such "concentrations" or "certifications" are NOT a degree in that subject, merely an emphasis as part of the J.D.

SUBSEQUENT TO J.D. (formerlly called LL.B) ... comes the LL.M. (Master of Legal Letters). Note this was logical when people first got LL.B and then LL.M. .. but sounds a tad illorical now with J.D. followed by same named LL.M.). Ok, so everything in law and degrees is not logical.

LL.M. degrees are generally offered only in certain speciality areas (for example Tax, Environmental Law, etc).
However, there appears to be a new direction of offering more generalized LL.M. degrees at a few law schools, such that it might be (or become) an interdisplinary LL.M. degree or a more generalized or unique LL.M. as opposed to specific area of law focused. The normal function of an LL.M. degree (assuming its not being done for teaching purposes) is to further knowlege and expertise in depth in a specialized area of law (tax, environmental law, entertainment and sports law, etc). However, there is one other type of LL.M. that is different ... there are LL.M. degrees that are specifically designed for foreign lawyers who do not want to come duplicate a basic law degree (the J.D. degree) but want to learn American Law and Legal Systems for purposes of doing American law practice. NYU for example has a LL.M. in Corporate Law that is designed and intended ONLY for foreign lawyers wanting to do corporate law in the USA. And there are other such LL.M. degrees (not merely corporate) designed for foreign lawyers.

Finally, the last, ultimate law degree after the LL.M. is back to another Doctorate .. the J.S.D. degree. This is rare and normally only done by a handfull of law professors and used fof academia pursuits only.

Thus, in summary, the normal US degree progression is as follows:

Bachelors Degree (B.S. or B.A) in any major. Normally 4 years. ABA approved law schools will not admit students who do not have a Bacherlors Degree.

Juris Doctorate Degree (J.D. .. formerally LL.B. mid 20th century). Normally 3 years (6 full time semesters).

LL.M. Degree (after receiving J.D. degree). Most often done for concentrated further law study in a specific area of law (tax, environemental law, entertainement and sports .. as a few of numerous examples).

J.S.D. Degree (a post LL.M. degree, rare, mostly limited to small % of law professors).

NOTE: Many law schools now provide for "Dual Degrees" ... meaning a program designed to allow a law student to simultaneously study and obtain a J.D. degree while also obtaining a Masters Degree (NOT a LL.M.) in some other non-legal subject (such as an MBA or a science masters degree, as examples). This is achieved by allowing some cross-over credits to count in each program toward the degree in the other program. Be aware if this is appealing that you must do the full application process to both the law school and the other masters program and meet all criteria for admission to BOTH to do a joint degree program (I know of no exceptions to that).

Lastly exception. Some law schools offer unique masters degree which are through the law school but are NOT J.D. or LL.M. degrees. For example: Vermont Law School is typically ranked and considered to be the #1 program for Environmental Law. Many who go there for J.D. will take some excellent environmental law courses as part of their J.D. Program. Additionally they offer an outstanding LL.M. in Environemental Law Degree. But, separate and distinct from those two normal law degrees, they offer and M.S.E.L. Degree.

MSEL Degree (at Vermont Law School) requires a Bachelors Degree to get in, but no LSAT exam. The degree earned is: Masters of Science in Environamental Law. It is a one year masters degree program. These M.S. degree students take courses in the law school alongside of the J.D. and LL.M. students and take same exams. This will not qualify a person to take a bar exam in many states and is not intended to be for practice of law. It is for people who will work in government jobs, non-profit groups or in policy making or writing and similar pursuits where a law degree and bar admission is not necessary.

There are some other Masters Degrees (which are not law degrees for practice of law) offered at some other law schools with different degree names and areas of study from the MSEL at VLS.

=======

I hope this will help some, particularly foreign lawyers with some of the confusion about law study and degrees in USA.

Rob
(former law professor, holder of 2 LL.M. degrees)

Lot of confusion seen here on degrees. Here is a summary of US law degrees.

The good law schools in US are those that are ABA (american bar assoc.) approved. All such ABA approved law schools require that applicants MUST have a 4 year Bachelors Degree (in any major) and take LSAT exam to be admitted.

Historical note: Before the 4 year Bachelors degree became a ABA accreditation requirement, some law schools let students in without Bachelors degrees and hence they called the law degrees LL.B. (Bachelor of Legal Letters).
With the ABA requirement that ALL MUST HAVE A BACHELORS DEGREE BEFORE BEING ADMITTED TO LAW SCHOOL, the degree name was changed (being a 7 year degree normally then) to J.D. (Juris Doctorate). To best of my knowledge, no US law schools award LL.B. degrees any longer (all have gone to J.D.)

The J.D. degree is normally a full time, 3 year program. The first year course of study normally offers no course choices. The next 2 years offers some choices, but withing some defined categories. Thus the extent of specialization by course choices and foucus is very limited. However, some focus can lead to a "concentration" or "certification in a speciality" at some law schools and in some areas of law. Such "concentrations" or "certifications" are NOT a degree in that subject, merely an emphasis as part of the J.D.

SUBSEQUENT TO J.D. (formerlly called LL.B) ... comes the LL.M. (Master of Legal Letters). Note this was logical when people first got LL.B and then LL.M. .. but sounds a tad illorical now with J.D. followed by same named LL.M.). Ok, so everything in law and degrees is not logical.

LL.M. degrees are generally offered only in certain speciality areas (for example Tax, Environmental Law, etc).
However, there appears to be a new direction of offering more generalized LL.M. degrees at a few law schools, such that it might be (or become) an interdisplinary LL.M. degree or a more generalized or unique LL.M. — as opposed to specific area of law focused. The normal function of an LL.M. degree (assuming its not being done for teaching purposes) is to further knowlege and expertise in depth in a specialized area of law (tax, environmental law, entertainment and sports law, etc). However, there is one other type of LL.M. that is different ... there are LL.M. degrees that are specifically designed for foreign lawyers who do not want to come duplicate a basic law degree (the J.D. degree) but want to learn American Law and Legal Systems for purposes of doing American law practice. NYU for example has a LL.M. in Corporate Law that is designed and intended ONLY for foreign lawyers wanting to do corporate law in the USA. And there are other such LL.M. degrees (not merely corporate) designed for foreign lawyers.

Finally, the last, ultimate law degree after the LL.M. is back to another Doctorate .. the J.S.D. degree. This is rare and normally only done by a handfull of law professors and used fof academia pursuits only.

Thus, in summary, the normal US degree progression is as follows:

Bachelors Degree (B.S. or B.A) in any major. Normally 4 years. ABA approved law schools will not admit students who do not have a Bacherlors Degree.

Juris Doctorate Degree (J.D. .. formerally LL.B. mid 20th century). Normally 3 years (6 full time semesters).

LL.M. Degree (after receiving J.D. degree). Most often done for concentrated further law study in a specific area of law (tax, environemental law, entertainement and sports .. as a few of numerous examples).

J.S.D. Degree (a post LL.M. degree, rare, mostly limited to small % of law professors).

NOTE: Many law schools now provide for "Dual Degrees" ... meaning a program designed to allow a law student to simultaneously study and obtain a J.D. degree while also obtaining a Masters Degree (NOT a LL.M.) in some other non-legal subject (such as an MBA or a science masters degree, as examples). This is achieved by allowing some cross-over credits to count in each program toward the degree in the other program. Be aware if this is appealing that you must do the full application process to both the law school and the other masters program and meet all criteria for admission to BOTH to do a joint degree program (I know of no exceptions to that).

Lastly exception. Some law schools offer unique masters degree which are through the law school but are NOT J.D. or LL.M. degrees. For example: Vermont Law School is typically ranked and considered to be the #1 program for Environmental Law. Many who go there for J.D. will take some excellent environmental law courses as part of their J.D. Program. Additionally they offer an outstanding LL.M. in Environemental Law Degree. But, separate and distinct from those two normal law degrees, they offer and M.S.E.L. Degree.

MSEL Degree (at Vermont Law School) requires a Bachelors Degree to get in, but no LSAT exam. The degree earned is: Masters of Science in Environamental Law. It is a one year masters degree program. These M.S. degree students take courses in the law school alongside of the J.D. and LL.M. students and take same exams. This will not qualify a person to take a bar exam in many states and is not intended to be for practice of law. It is for people who will work in government jobs, non-profit groups or in policy making or writing and similar pursuits where a law degree and bar admission is not necessary.

There are some other Masters Degrees (which are not law degrees for practice of law) offered at some other law schools with different degree names and areas of study from the MSEL at VLS.

=======

I hope this will help some, particularly foreign lawyers with some of the confusion about law study and degrees in USA.

Rob
(former law professor, holder of 2 LL.M. degrees)
quote
richardvf

Rhianna,

Here is an answer to your question I posted on another thread.

I am a California lawyer. It is not that difficult. If you are a lawyer in your home country you are eligible to take the California bar exam, period. Your education qualifications do not matter. Common law, civil law, it doesn't matter. A 3 year LL.B from the UK will be sufficient so long as you are a licensed lawyer in the UK. If you are not a lawyer in your home country you need to have the educational equivalent of 2 years of undergraduate and 4 years of common law legal education. An US LL.M would count as 1 year of the 4 years of common law legal education required.

Here is the information link if you are not a licensed attorney in your home country.
calbar.ca.gov/calbar/pdfs/admissions/sf_legal-edu-outside-us.pdf

Here is the information link if you are a licensed attorney.
calbar.ca.gov/calbar/pdfs/admissions/77sf.pdf

Rhianna,

Here is an answer to your question I posted on another thread.

I am a California lawyer. It is not that difficult. If you are a lawyer in your home country you are eligible to take the California bar exam, period. Your education qualifications do not matter. Common law, civil law, it doesn't matter. A 3 year LL.B from the UK will be sufficient so long as you are a licensed lawyer in the UK. If you are not a lawyer in your home country you need to have the educational equivalent of 2 years of undergraduate and 4 years of common law legal education. An US LL.M would count as 1 year of the 4 years of common law legal education required.

Here is the information link if you are not a licensed attorney in your home country.
calbar.ca.gov/calbar/pdfs/admissions/sf_legal-edu-outside-us.pdf

Here is the information link if you are a licensed attorney.
calbar.ca.gov/calbar/pdfs/admissions/77sf.pdf
quote
averma

Hi, I was wondering if I could get some advice on an LLM at UCLA?

I am a Canadian citizen and obtained my law degree in Australia with an exchange semester at Northwestern (Chicago). I recently wrote the NY bar in July and I am now looking into do an LLM in Banking/Finance law.

I am keen on practicing in California and/or New York.
Is it worth me pursuing an LLM at UCLA or NYU in banking/corporate? I've heard horror stories of LLM students returning home without a job. I don't have significant legal work experience as I have been attending school with no breaks. How likely is it for me to find employment post-LLM in either California (after writing the bar) or New York?

Hi, I was wondering if I could get some advice on an LLM at UCLA?

I am a Canadian citizen and obtained my law degree in Australia with an exchange semester at Northwestern (Chicago). I recently wrote the NY bar in July and I am now looking into do an LLM in Banking/Finance law.

I am keen on practicing in California and/or New York.
Is it worth me pursuing an LLM at UCLA or NYU in banking/corporate? I've heard horror stories of LLM students returning home without a job. I don't have significant legal work experience as I have been attending school with no breaks. How likely is it for me to find employment post-LLM in either California (after writing the bar) or New York?
quote

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