Harvard LLM 2015-2016


jsd

hey guys, I wanted to know what the odds are of getting into Harvard with below average grades (bottom 50%) but with decent work experience involving a superior court clerkship, law firm, and reasonably good co-curriculars.


Harbour no illusions, your chances are zero.

<blockquote>hey guys, I wanted to know what the odds are of getting into Harvard with below average grades (bottom 50%) but with decent work experience involving a superior court clerkship, law firm, and reasonably good co-curriculars.</blockquote>

Harbour no illusions, your chances are zero.
quote

your optimism can be contagious on this forum.

your optimism can be contagious on this forum.
quote
hotpursuit

Hi Davidcopperfield,

My suggestion is that you apply. You do not lose anything (just a couple of dollars). Application decisions can sometimes be a gamble. Don't lose hope!

H.

Hi Davidcopperfield,

My suggestion is that you apply. You do not lose anything (just a couple of dollars). Application decisions can sometimes be a gamble. Don't lose hope!

H.
quote
jsd

your optimism can be contagious on this forum.


Here's a simple reality check. Look at the App tracker for HLS these past 5 years on LLM Guide. There are plenty of people who've made it.

Do you see anyone who lists their rank as 'not in top 50%' ? Does that mean something?

Decent work exp!? Barring a few brave souls, most who apply have 3+ years at the best firms / orgs / jobs. Can you convince yourself you bring something unique to the table that no other applicant will have?

Superior court clerkship is not what it used to be. 1 in 2 applicants these days claim to have clerked.

'reasonably good co-curriculars'. Is that a euphemism for being on the editorial board of some nondescript publication? Not good enough. Most folks wanting a ticket to Cambridge MA seem to be editors.

Bluntly speaking you'll be lucky if you can make it to Michigan, Cornell or Georgetown.

<blockquote>your optimism can be contagious on this forum.</blockquote>

Here's a simple reality check. Look at the App tracker for HLS these past 5 years on LLM Guide. There are plenty of people who've made it.

Do you see anyone who lists their rank as 'not in top 50%' ? Does that mean something?

Decent work exp!? Barring a few brave souls, most who apply have 3+ years at the best firms / orgs / jobs. Can you convince yourself you bring something unique to the table that no other applicant will have?

Superior court clerkship is not what it used to be. 1 in 2 applicants these days claim to have clerked.

'reasonably good co-curriculars'. Is that a euphemism for being on the editorial board of some nondescript publication? Not good enough. Most folks wanting a ticket to Cambridge MA seem to be editors.

Bluntly speaking you'll be lucky if you can make it to Michigan, Cornell or Georgetown.
quote
LLMAdmis

Hi Davidcopperfield,

My suggestion is that you apply. You do not lose anything (just a couple of dollars). Application decisions can sometimes be a gamble. Don't lose hope!

H.


I agree. Just try it! You have nothing to lose for applying.
Plus, no one on this forum is an admissions officer of Harvard. Who can be sure?

<blockquote>Hi Davidcopperfield,

My suggestion is that you apply. You do not lose anything (just a couple of dollars). Application decisions can sometimes be a gamble. Don't lose hope!

H.
</blockquote>

I agree. Just try it! You have nothing to lose for applying.
Plus, no one on this forum is an admissions officer of Harvard. Who can be sure?
quote

Thanks guys. I actually got into Cambridge last year, so I will probably apply, notwithstanding jsd's stunning reality check and that lucid analysis of my profile. Although he seems to have done this quite a few times so won't be discounting that either.

Thanks guys. I actually got into Cambridge last year, so I will probably apply, notwithstanding jsd's stunning reality check and that lucid analysis of my profile. Although he seems to have done this quite a few times so won't be discounting that either.
quote
imnc

Thanks guys. I actually got into Cambridge last year, so I will probably apply, notwithstanding jsd's stunning reality check and that lucid analysis of my profile. Although he seems to have done this quite a few times so won't be discounting that either.


Hi, I found a posts on how average grades affect HLS chances by llmhls and jsd. I think both are from harvard so this should help.

http://www.llm-guide.com/board/141401/3

Also http://www.llm-guide.com/board/142292

<blockquote>Thanks guys. I actually got into Cambridge last year, so I will probably apply, notwithstanding jsd's stunning reality check and that lucid analysis of my profile. Although he seems to have done this quite a few times so won't be discounting that either.</blockquote>

Hi, I found a posts on how average grades affect HLS chances by llmhls and jsd. I think both are from harvard so this should help.

http://www.llm-guide.com/board/141401/3

Also http://www.llm-guide.com/board/142292
quote
hotpursuit

Thanks guys. I actually got into Cambridge last year, so I will probably apply, notwithstanding jsd's stunning reality check and that lucid analysis of my profile. Although he seems to have done this quite a few times so won't be discounting that either.



If you got into Cambridge, the odds are definitely not 0.

Goodluck!!!
H

<blockquote>Thanks guys. I actually got into Cambridge last year, so I will probably apply, notwithstanding jsd's stunning reality check and that lucid analysis of my profile. Although he seems to have done this quite a few times so won't be discounting that either.</blockquote>


If you got into Cambridge, the odds are definitely not 0.

Goodluck!!!
H
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suzie1588

does anyone have any information on candidates who made it to harvard but did not make it to other schools? i was denied admission to chicago last week, and it has me worried because i felt my application was strong.

please put me out of my misery :(

does anyone have any information on candidates who made it to harvard but did not make it to other schools? i was denied admission to chicago last week, and it has me worried because i felt my application was strong.

please put me out of my misery :(
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hotpursuit

I know several people that have been accepted by Chicago but not by Harvard. But I have also heard a very few cases of being rejected by Chicago and accepted by Harvard, so you still have a change.

Don't worry. Hang in there. Just 1 month for decisions.

Best,
H

I know several people that have been accepted by Chicago but not by Harvard. But I have also heard a very few cases of being rejected by Chicago and accepted by Harvard, so you still have a change.

Don't worry. Hang in there. Just 1 month for decisions.

Best,
H
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Inactive User

does anyone have any information on candidates who made it to harvard but did not make it to other schools? i was denied admission to chicago last week, and it has me worried because i felt my application was strong.

please put me out of my misery :(


A friend of mine got rejected by many good schools but got into Harvard and NYU. IT HAPPENS!

<blockquote>does anyone have any information on candidates who made it to harvard but did not make it to other schools? i was denied admission to chicago last week, and it has me worried because i felt my application was strong.

please put me out of my misery :(</blockquote>

A friend of mine got rejected by many good schools but got into Harvard and NYU. IT HAPPENS!
quote
suzie1588

thank you hotpursuit and dchatur!

my recommendation letters are another factor - i have a well-known academic/practitioner (under whose guidance i completed a course) recommending me for harvard, whereas he did not do so for chicago (as he wasnt able to send the documents to LSAC) - im hoping this works in my favour!

my sympathies with fellow applicants in similar situations. the wait is just awful.

thank you hotpursuit and dchatur!

my recommendation letters are another factor - i have a well-known academic/practitioner (under whose guidance i completed a course) recommending me for harvard, whereas he did not do so for chicago (as he wasnt able to send the documents to LSAC) - im hoping this works in my favour!

my sympathies with fellow applicants in similar situations. the wait is just awful.
quote
sr1986

does anyone have any information on candidates who made it to harvard but did not make it to other schools? i was denied admission to chicago last week, and it has me worried because i felt my application was strong.

please put me out of my misery :(


My friend was accepted by Chicago but rejected by Harvard. She is currently enrolled at Chicago and enjoying every moment of it!

I think the selection process is highly subjective and you must always be prepared to hear the unexpected. Hope you get into Harvard, and since luck is what you will need the most - here is wishing you all the luck in the world. Cheers!

<blockquote>does anyone have any information on candidates who made it to harvard but did not make it to other schools? i was denied admission to chicago last week, and it has me worried because i felt my application was strong.

please put me out of my misery :(</blockquote>

My friend was accepted by Chicago but rejected by Harvard. She is currently enrolled at Chicago and enjoying every moment of it!

I think the selection process is highly subjective and you must always be prepared to hear the unexpected. Hope you get into Harvard, and since luck is what you will need the most - here is wishing you all the luck in the world. Cheers!
quote
suzie1588

Thanks and the very best to you as well! my worry is that Chicago is less selective than Harvard :( Keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks and the very best to you as well! my worry is that Chicago is less selective than Harvard :( Keeping my fingers crossed.
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Paloma88

Suzie I have never met anyone who was rejected by Chicago and admitted by Harvard (none of my friends who have been admitted at Harvard applied to Chicago) but last year one of my best friends was rejected by Chicago and admitted by Yale. So don´t worry. I believe that things are going to turn just the way they are supposed to.
Good luck to everyone!!!

Suzie I have never met anyone who was rejected by Chicago and admitted by Harvard (none of my friends who have been admitted at Harvard applied to Chicago) but last year one of my best friends was rejected by Chicago and admitted by Yale. So don´t worry. I believe that things are going to turn just the way they are supposed to.
Good luck to everyone!!!
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hotpursuit

Interesting case being rejected by Chicago and admitted by Yale. Proves there is a little bit of luck/gamble in the application process.

Best,
H.

Interesting case being rejected by Chicago and admitted by Yale. Proves there is a little bit of luck/gamble in the application process.

Best,
H.
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llmhls

Thanks and the very best to you as well! my worry is that Chicago is less selective than Harvard :( Keeping my fingers crossed.


Have you been accepted by any other LLM program? Look, from my exerience , you still have a chance. The criteria are different at chicago and harvard... Where chicago rules a certain group out based on factor x there harvard gives just a small + or - for the same factor and vice versa.

If you believe you have a strong application, than there is no reason not to believe tjat it will be fine

<blockquote>Thanks and the very best to you as well! my worry is that Chicago is less selective than Harvard :( Keeping my fingers crossed.</blockquote>

Have you been accepted by any other LLM program? Look, from my exerience , you still have a chance. The criteria are different at chicago and harvard... Where chicago rules a certain group out based on factor x there harvard gives just a small + or - for the same factor and vice versa.

If you believe you have a strong application, than there is no reason not to believe tjat it will be fine
quote
suzie1588

thanks Paloma, hotpursuit and llmhls! it's heartening to hear that there are people that Chicago rejected who have gotten into excellent colleges. I haven't received word from any of the other universities yet - I've applied to HLS, nyu, and Berkeley.

thanks Paloma, hotpursuit and llmhls! it's heartening to hear that there are people that Chicago rejected who have gotten into excellent colleges. I haven't received word from any of the other universities yet - I've applied to HLS, nyu, and Berkeley.
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LLM2015/16

thanks Paloma, hotpursuit and llmhls! it's heartening to hear that there are people that Chicago rejected who have gotten into excellent colleges. I haven't received word from any of the other universities yet - I've applied to HLS, nyu, and Berkeley.


Suzie, guys here told some encouraging stories and I only wish to support them. There is a partner at my law firm who was accepted to Yale, Harvard, Columbia and NYU but was put on a waiting list at Berkley. Eventually she received her LLM and JSD from Yale. This shows that schools give different weight to different factors, just as llmhls wrote. While all schools want to get the best candidates, some prefer students with a more academic inclination, others with substantial working experience or interesting volunteering practice, and some - like Chicago - want to create a diverse class of students from different backgrounds and interests.
I wish you the best of luck and will be happy to read your next post cheering about your acceptance to HLS. Remember, it is not over until to get your decision email.

Good luck to everyone here!
It is really nice to see your support for Suzie.

<blockquote>thanks Paloma, hotpursuit and llmhls! it's heartening to hear that there are people that Chicago rejected who have gotten into excellent colleges. I haven't received word from any of the other universities yet - I've applied to HLS, nyu, and Berkeley.</blockquote>

Suzie, guys here told some encouraging stories and I only wish to support them. There is a partner at my law firm who was accepted to Yale, Harvard, Columbia and NYU but was put on a waiting list at Berkley. Eventually she received her LLM and JSD from Yale. This shows that schools give different weight to different factors, just as llmhls wrote. While all schools want to get the best candidates, some prefer students with a more academic inclination, others with substantial working experience or interesting volunteering practice, and some - like Chicago - want to create a diverse class of students from different backgrounds and interests.
I wish you the best of luck and will be happy to read your next post cheering about your acceptance to HLS. Remember, it is not over until to get your decision email.

Good luck to everyone here!
It is really nice to see your support for Suzie.
quote
jsd

All law schools use a diversity indices for their LLM decisions but use different yardsticks within each index. Many lower-ranked law schools will often deliberately avoid accepting too many stellar applicants if they believe those people would turn them down (for a place at a Harvard - for example). It's not simply about egos and a desire to avoid snubs; the truth is that refusal by accepted candidates makes the admission process a headache for law schools. Admission committees therefore have to not only evaluate the absolute suitability of an applicant (is her academic record better than others? Has she more relevant experience than others? More awards?) but also whether she is likely to accept an offer (if made).

All law schools use a diversity indices for their LLM decisions but use different yardsticks within each index. Many lower-ranked law schools will often deliberately avoid accepting too many stellar applicants if they believe those people would turn them down (for a place at a Harvard - for example). It's not simply about egos and a desire to avoid snubs; the truth is that refusal by accepted candidates makes the admission process a headache for law schools. Admission committees therefore have to not only evaluate the absolute suitability of an applicant (is her academic record better than others? Has she more relevant experience than others? More awards?) but also whether she is likely to accept an offer (if made).
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