Calling all current Columbia LL.M.'s


wolla

I hope that a few current LL.M.'s from Columbia are still lurking around on this forum :) (i.e. already graduated or currently studying for the LL.M. at Columbia).

I am asking since I and many others (see e.g. here http://www.llm-guide.com/board/61287) are currently torn between offers from Columbia and Chicago.

I am currently leaning towards Columbia, however, my biggest concern (which I share with several others) is that Columbia's LL.M. program is simply too big.

Consequently, I would greatly appreciate input from someone with experince with the Columbia LL.M. program in regard to the questions below.

How well are the LL.M.'s integrated within the group? - i.e. is there a sense of unity, does "everybody know everybody" (I know thats a relative question with 200+ LL.M.'s) are there a lot of social activities, parties etc.? Does the faculty and staff take special interest in the LL.M.'s, e.g. does the staff arrange special social events? Or are the LL.M.'s "just" considered and treated as "normal" JD's?

Thank you very much in advance for your input!

I hope that a few current LL.M.'s from Columbia are still lurking around on this forum :) (i.e. already graduated or currently studying for the LL.M. at Columbia).

I am asking since I and many others (see e.g. here http://www.llm-guide.com/board/61287) are currently torn between offers from Columbia and Chicago.

I am currently leaning towards Columbia, however, my biggest concern (which I share with several others) is that Columbia's LL.M. program is simply too big.

Consequently, I would greatly appreciate input from someone with experince with the Columbia LL.M. program in regard to the questions below.

How well are the LL.M.'s integrated within the group? - i.e. is there a sense of unity, does "everybody know everybody" (I know thats a relative question with 200+ LL.M.'s) are there a lot of social activities, parties etc.? Does the faculty and staff take special interest in the LL.M.'s, e.g. does the staff arrange special social events? Or are the LL.M.'s "just" considered and treated as "normal" JD's?

Thank you very much in advance for your input!
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welmer

i work with some people from chicago and Columbia... both schools are great, but it depends on your personality/style. The chicago experience is supposed to be better for community oriented people for several reasons, first off, chicago's professors are better and you will actually have access to them. Columbia has John coffee, but lacks the large list of names such as bork/posner that Chicago has, Also, chicago's small class size is a big plus since you will be a tight knit group by the end of the year; columbia housing is disorganized and it's very easy to feel alone in NYC.

nYC is a great city, but it might be better to finish the school year knowing a small group of people really well (chicago) versus being part of a large crowd and getting to know more people less well (columbia). . are you the kind of person who would rather know fewer people really well or more people but less well?

of course, these are generalizations and both programs r great but the sense of community is probably better at chicago in terms of faculty and fellow students..

i work with some people from chicago and Columbia... both schools are great, but it depends on your personality/style. The chicago experience is supposed to be better for community oriented people for several reasons, first off, chicago's professors are better and you will actually have access to them. Columbia has John coffee, but lacks the large list of names such as bork/posner that Chicago has, Also, chicago's small class size is a big plus since you will be a tight knit group by the end of the year; columbia housing is disorganized and it's very easy to feel alone in NYC.

nYC is a great city, but it might be better to finish the school year knowing a small group of people really well (chicago) versus being part of a large crowd and getting to know more people less well (columbia). . are you the kind of person who would rather know fewer people really well or more people but less well?

of course, these are generalizations and both programs r great but the sense of community is probably better at chicago in terms of faculty and fellow students..
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wolla

Thanks for the reply Welmer.

Any other input is greatly appreciated!

Thanks for the reply Welmer.

Any other input is greatly appreciated!
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jbsinger

I'm a current CLS-LLM. To your concerns: When I started my LLM-year at CLS I had actually exactly the same thougths - too big LLM class, too little togetherness between the students etc. Now I know that, even if we are almost 220 LLMs, the size of our class is not a disadvantage at all: 1) During this one year you get to know (almost) everyone of the class and I made many really good friends - of course some "groups" stay more on their own, especially Asians and many South Americans have less contact to other LLMs. But most LLMs have many contacts with other LLMs.
2) Since most offered classes at CLS are open for JD's and LLMs as well, it doesn't feel like a "huge" LLM-class. You are mixed with JD's anyway and if classes get too big, they open another section of that class with additional professors or limit the admission to that class. It never feels crowded.
Though I don't know much about Chicago (except its lower ranking regarding JD's) I can recommend CLS without restrictions. And, don't forget, its NYC!!!

I'm a current CLS-LLM. To your concerns: When I started my LLM-year at CLS I had actually exactly the same thougths - too big LLM class, too little togetherness between the students etc. Now I know that, even if we are almost 220 LLMs, the size of our class is not a disadvantage at all: 1) During this one year you get to know (almost) everyone of the class and I made many really good friends - of course some "groups" stay more on their own, especially Asians and many South Americans have less contact to other LLMs. But most LLMs have many contacts with other LLMs.
2) Since most offered classes at CLS are open for JD's and LLMs as well, it doesn't feel like a "huge" LLM-class. You are mixed with JD's anyway and if classes get too big, they open another section of that class with additional professors or limit the admission to that class. It never feels crowded.
Though I don't know much about Chicago (except its lower ranking regarding JD's) I can recommend CLS without restrictions. And, don't forget, its NYC!!!
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sld32

jbsinger,

Do people from the CLS LLM have jobs? What percent of CLS LLM students have a job?

jbsinger,

Do people from the CLS LLM have jobs? What percent of CLS LLM students have a job?
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koala

jbsinger,

Do people from the CLS LLM have jobs? What percent of CLS LLM students have a job?


Same question...would be interested to know more about job prospects for LLMs after Columbia...

<blockquote>jbsinger,

Do people from the CLS LLM have jobs? What percent of CLS LLM students have a job? </blockquote>

Same question...would be interested to know more about job prospects for LLMs after Columbia...
quote
wolla

Thank you for the very thorough reply jbsinger. Does the staff arrange any kind of activities for the LL.M.'s, e.g. social activities?

Thank you for the very thorough reply jbsinger. Does the staff arrange any kind of activities for the LL.M.'s, e.g. social activities?
quote
vanhub

social activities? how about JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????

social activities? how about JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????
quote
wolla

social activities? how about JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????


If you're pursuing the LL.M. mainly because of the prospect of a job (especially in the US), then there is a very high change that you will be disappointed.

<blockquote>social activities? how about JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????</blockquote>

If you're pursuing the LL.M. mainly because of the prospect of a job (especially in the US), then there is a very high change that you will be disappointed.
quote
jbsinger

Getting a job in these times is pretty hard and many LLMs are very desperate - lots of them didn't even get interviews at the Columbia Job Fair (Europeans hat a clear advantage there, don't ask me why). Most of the LLMs did not get a job in the US, though many have one in their home country. As far as I realize it, mostly Indians and South Americans try to get a job in the US. Europeans (like me) return to their country in most cases after the LLM.-year. This does not mean that it is impossible to get a job here, it's just harder. I guess for the next year (2010) it will be easier again anyway (our profs share this hope).
To the question regarding social "entertainment": yes, we got a lot of that stuff. I usually delete the emails from those thousands of societies immediately, but I know many people which can't get enough of that stuff. There are plenty of extracurricular activities for LLMs (different law journals for example). Apart from that, the university offers, of course for all students, a large variety of additional activities (for example: sightseeing trips to DC, Pennsylvania, boat cruises, ski trips to Vermont, trips to upstate NY vineyards and so on...). I think it's really fun, no doubt...
Not to forget, in the first couple of month there is a weekly event for LLMs with free drinks (yes, also alkohol) and food ;-) and sometimes in the summer barbecue nights.

Getting a job in these times is pretty hard and many LLMs are very desperate - lots of them didn't even get interviews at the Columbia Job Fair (Europeans hat a clear advantage there, don't ask me why). Most of the LLMs did not get a job in the US, though many have one in their home country. As far as I realize it, mostly Indians and South Americans try to get a job in the US. Europeans (like me) return to their country in most cases after the LLM.-year. This does not mean that it is impossible to get a job here, it's just harder. I guess for the next year (2010) it will be easier again anyway (our profs share this hope).
To the question regarding social "entertainment": yes, we got a lot of that stuff. I usually delete the emails from those thousands of societies immediately, but I know many people which can't get enough of that stuff. There are plenty of extracurricular activities for LLMs (different law journals for example). Apart from that, the university offers, of course for all students, a large variety of additional activities (for example: sightseeing trips to DC, Pennsylvania, boat cruises, ski trips to Vermont, trips to upstate NY vineyards and so on...). I think it's really fun, no doubt...
Not to forget, in the first couple of month there is a weekly event for LLMs with free drinks (yes, also alkohol) and food ;-) and sometimes in the summer barbecue nights.
quote
willa

jbsinger,

is it possible for students to enjoy the social activities without a job? i can't imagine enjoying a weekend trip when i am about to finish a degree with $70,000 of debt and no job...

jbsinger,

is it possible for students to enjoy the social activities without a job? i can't imagine enjoying a weekend trip when i am about to finish a degree with $70,000 of debt and no job...
quote
wolla

jbsinger,

is it possible for students to enjoy the social activities without a job? i can't imagine enjoying a weekend trip when i am about to finish a degree with $70,000 of debt and no job...


Nice name Willa :)

I already have a job and I have been granted a leave - so getting a job is not a major concern for me (since I have one on "stand-by" at home).

But if you seriously go for the LL.M. with the intention of getting a job (and not for the professional and personal experience) then you will most likely, as previously mentioned, get quite disappointed. And no amount of mockery can hide that :)

<blockquote>jbsinger,

is it possible for students to enjoy the social activities without a job? i can't imagine enjoying a weekend trip when i am about to finish a degree with $70,000 of debt and no job...</blockquote>

Nice name Willa :)

I already have a job and I have been granted a leave - so getting a job is not a major concern for me (since I have one on "stand-by" at home).

But if you seriously go for the LL.M. with the intention of getting a job (and not for the professional and personal experience) then you will most likely, as previously mentioned, get quite disappointed. And no amount of mockery can hide that :)
quote
jbsinger

Of course, if you fear not to get a job you'll worry about that all the time. But if you don't get a job as CLS LLM, where else??? I think the job problem is a general topic for LLMs, not only for CLS LLMs. Since I already have a job back home I also could enjoy the weekend trips :-)

Of course, if you fear not to get a job you'll worry about that all the time. But if you don't get a job as CLS LLM, where else??? I think the job problem is a general topic for LLMs, not only for CLS LLMs. Since I already have a job back home I also could enjoy the weekend trips :-)
quote
leemin

social activities? how about JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????


If you're pursuing the LL.M. mainly because of the prospect of a job (especially in the US), then there is a very high change that you will be disappointed.


Current LLM student at Columbia. No job and many debts. No hope neither.

http://theshark.typepad.com/weblog/2009/03/all-the-depressing-info-we-could-find-on-your-future-all-in-one-place.html

<blockquote><blockquote>social activities? how about JOBS!!!!!!!!!!!!?????????</blockquote>

If you're pursuing the LL.M. mainly because of the prospect of a job (especially in the US), then there is a very high change that you will be disappointed.</blockquote>

Current LLM student at Columbia. No job and many debts. No hope neither.

http://theshark.typepad.com/weblog/2009/03/all-the-depressing-info-we-could-find-on-your-future-all-in-one-place.html

quote

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