advice - another CLS v. NYU


newbie

Hi,

I've people on this site very useful in terms of advice.
I know there have been a few posts similar to this but I'm
seriously torn btwn NYU and CLS. I've been offered
admission to both programs, CLS has given me a 20k tuition
waiver. I've had no fin. aid offer from NYU.
I'm interested in International Law, Human Rights law and
Dispute Resolution. I'd like any and all views about which
program is better and why.

Thanks!

Hi,

I've people on this site very useful in terms of advice.
I know there have been a few posts similar to this but I'm
seriously torn btwn NYU and CLS. I've been offered
admission to both programs, CLS has given me a 20k tuition
waiver. I've had no fin. aid offer from NYU.
I'm interested in International Law, Human Rights law and
Dispute Resolution. I'd like any and all views about which
program is better and why.

Thanks!
quote
grugani

Hi Newbie,
That's a fantastic "problem"! At least in Brazil, I believe CLS has a better reputation than NYU (especially amongst non-lawyers). However, both are terrific institutions. I would get the tuition waiver (20k is a lot of money) and enjoy Morningside Heights and Upper West Side...
Best of luck!

Hi Newbie,
That's a fantastic "problem"! At least in Brazil, I believe CLS has a better reputation than NYU (especially amongst non-lawyers). However, both are terrific institutions. I would get the tuition waiver (20k is a lot of money) and enjoy Morningside Heights and Upper West Side...
Best of luck!
quote
remy

I'm at a loss with people trying to choose between these two. I know LLM programs are different than JDs or other disciplines. But still... Columbia is a preeminent university, one of the best in the world, whereas NYU is academically reputable only in the professional Law and Business schools. And NYU has no campus! This school could be based on mars and still be called NYU.

I'm at a loss with people trying to choose between these two. I know LLM programs are different than JDs or other disciplines. But still... Columbia is a preeminent university, one of the best in the world, whereas NYU is academically reputable only in the professional Law and Business schools. And NYU has no campus! This school could be based on mars and still be called NYU.
quote
mnementh

ridicilous reasons. since the degree is in law, who cares what the ranking is in other fields... especially since business in NYU is also good, if one wants to combine them in some way.

No campus is another non-issue... who cares about that? of course there's a campus, it's just an open air campus with lots of buildings scattered in possibly the best streets in New York... of course the law school itself is in one building (connected to another) and who wants to spend their times in other school departments anyway? u want to go to the archeology school or something? Fact is Columbia students always come to the area of NYU to hang out because Columbia is much more dry and boring...

Both are very similar in terms of prestige/faculty/classes and you can even share classes if you feel so.

So NYU is definitely not below CLS... maybe better.

ridicilous reasons. since the degree is in law, who cares what the ranking is in other fields... especially since business in NYU is also good, if one wants to combine them in some way.

No campus is another non-issue... who cares about that? of course there's a campus, it's just an open air campus with lots of buildings scattered in possibly the best streets in New York... of course the law school itself is in one building (connected to another) and who wants to spend their times in other school departments anyway? u want to go to the archeology school or something? Fact is Columbia students always come to the area of NYU to hang out because Columbia is much more dry and boring...

Both are very similar in terms of prestige/faculty/classes and you can even share classes if you feel so.

So NYU is definitely not below CLS... maybe better.
quote
remy

No kidding. Of course CLS students go to NYU to hang out, like all those bums who hang out near NYU, they like to have a little r-n-r once in awhile too. Where else could they go to find such a "relaxed" atmosphere. There's a very good reason why NYU sucks in all other departments of the academia, it doesn't really take much effort to build a "reputable law school or business school. You just need entice the professors from other places with cash and the aura of NYC. Boom, you have a "world class" law school.

Obviously I'm not comparing NYU with Joe Jockstrap university law school. I would give the nod to NYU LLM against the majority of law schools. But Columbia is not your average law school. It is an echelon above NYU in my humble opion. with all due respect to the NYU aficionados out there.

No kidding. Of course CLS students go to NYU to hang out, like all those bums who hang out near NYU, they like to have a little r-n-r once in awhile too. Where else could they go to find such a "relaxed" atmosphere. There's a very good reason why NYU sucks in all other departments of the academia, it doesn't really take much effort to build a "reputable“ law school or business school. You just need entice the professors from other places with cash and the aura of NYC. Boom, you have a "world class" law school.

Obviously I'm not comparing NYU with Joe Jockstrap university law school. I would give the nod to NYU LLM against the majority of law schools. But Columbia is not your average law school. It is an echelon above NYU in my humble opion. with all due respect to the NYU aficionados out there.
quote
Cecilia_A

If I may come back to the question that was asked by the creator of this post... I have no other knowledge than from reading this forum (a lot ;-)) and from talking to some people who did an LL.M. What I can say is, at least in human rights & international law (our friend's preferred fields), it might be hard to choose from the 2. It's THE field of NYU, but on the other hand, CLS has a better reputation in general. Anyway, as both schools should be really great (for that field), I would say the 20K seal the deal.
Just my personal opinion :-)

If I may come back to the question that was asked by the creator of this post... I have no other knowledge than from reading this forum (a lot ;-)) and from talking to some people who did an LL.M. What I can say is, at least in human rights & international law (our friend's preferred fields), it might be hard to choose from the 2. It's THE field of NYU, but on the other hand, CLS has a better reputation in general. Anyway, as both schools should be really great (for that field), I would say the 20K seal the deal.
Just my personal opinion :-)
quote
GlasgowLaw

Hey,

Just to say that Philip Alston teaches at NYU - one of the foremosr international/human rights law scholars!

Also - Eleanor Fox is at NYU (Antitrust) and Ronald Dworkin of all people (legal theory) - I would choose NYU over CLS for the above three reasons!

Hey,

Just to say that Philip Alston teaches at NYU - one of the foremosr international/human rights law scholars!

Also - Eleanor Fox is at NYU (Antitrust) and Ronald Dworkin of all people (legal theory) - I would choose NYU over CLS for the above three reasons!
quote
yasminm

I wouldn't go as far as Remy but I agree that even without the 20k, CLS is better than NYU. Nothing to do with whether NYU has a campus or whether (as has been suggested above), NYU has no real reputation outside the law school. Although NYU has some expertise in international law, ultimately, most places view an LLM from CLS as a lot more valuable than an NYU LLM. The one exception to the abvoe is that if you are planning to work in the USA in the public international law sphere, NYU might be more appropriate. For most other countries, CLS is seen by far as a better institution.

The 20k just makes the deal even sweeter.

I wouldn't go as far as Remy but I agree that even without the 20k, CLS is better than NYU. Nothing to do with whether NYU has a campus or whether (as has been suggested above), NYU has no real reputation outside the law school. Although NYU has some expertise in international law, ultimately, most places view an LLM from CLS as a lot more valuable than an NYU LLM. The one exception to the abvoe is that if you are planning to work in the USA in the public international law sphere, NYU might be more appropriate. For most other countries, CLS is seen by far as a better institution.

The 20k just makes the deal even sweeter.
quote
dennywin

of course Columbia! it's a no-brainer choice.

At least in China, columbia's general reputation lags only behind Harvard and Yale.

NYU is much easier to get in than Columbia.

of course Columbia! it's a no-brainer choice.

At least in China, columbia's general reputation lags only behind Harvard and Yale.

NYU is much easier to get in than Columbia.
quote
dennywin

beyond law school, NYU is just a city college.

beyond law school, NYU is just a city college.
quote
loop_

so far some very good arguments both sides of the coin, which suggest that an LLM in either institution will be worthwhile in terms of prestige and quality of life. On this basis, the $20k waiver from CLS makes it a no brainer. That is a lot of money!

However, what we have not heard is which institution will provide a better education? Any thoughts anyone? This would be very useful to anyone looking to do an LLM in either institution, and is a factor I think often overlooked, probably because most posters are prospective applicants as well...

so far some very good arguments both sides of the coin, which suggest that an LLM in either institution will be worthwhile in terms of prestige and quality of life. On this basis, the $20k waiver from CLS makes it a no brainer. That is a lot of money!

However, what we have not heard is which institution will provide a better education? Any thoughts anyone? This would be very useful to anyone looking to do an LLM in either institution, and is a factor I think often overlooked, probably because most posters are prospective applicants as well...
quote
remy

Glasgowlaw:

Ronald Dworkin is a stud in the field of law, and the man is almost 80 years old. You think he's gonna come out of semi-retirement to teach an LLM class in general law studies?

As for the other professors you mentioned, are you saying no one in cls can match their reputation and expertise?

I'm not saying NYU is a bad law school. Heck, in two 4-months terms of general law studies, you could learn as much from a fifth tier Joe Jockstrap law school as you could at either CLS or NYU. All I'm trying to relay here is that there's no comparison when it comes to CLS and NYU law.

Yasminm:

I threw in the campus excuse just for kicks. I hardly think the CLS campus is that much better than NYU's.

Glasgowlaw:

Ronald Dworkin is a stud in the field of law, and the man is almost 80 years old. You think he's gonna come out of semi-retirement to teach an LLM class in general law studies?

As for the other professors you mentioned, are you saying no one in cls can match their reputation and expertise?

I'm not saying NYU is a bad law school. Heck, in two 4-months terms of general law studies, you could learn as much from a fifth tier Joe Jockstrap law school as you could at either CLS or NYU. All I'm trying to relay here is that there's no comparison when it comes to CLS and NYU law.

Yasminm:

I threw in the campus excuse just for kicks. I hardly think the CLS campus is that much better than NYU's.
quote
wolla

Glasgowlaw:


I threw in the campus excuse just for kicks. I hardly think the CLS campus is that much better than NYU's.


Have you been there?

<blockquote>Glasgowlaw:


I threw in the campus excuse just for kicks. I hardly think the CLS campus is that much better than NYU's.</blockquote>

Have you been there?
quote
remy

Glasgowlaw:


I threw in the campus excuse just for kicks. I hardly think the CLS campus is that much better than NYU's.


Have you been there?


I wouldn't dare to compare the two had I not been to both campuses at least a dozen times each. Some people like the Columbia campus. Not me. The place reminds me of the colosseum. And I'm not a big fan of that either. Don't get me wrong, I still think it's better than having NO campus. But that's just my opinion.

<blockquote><blockquote>Glasgowlaw:


I threw in the campus excuse just for kicks. I hardly think the CLS campus is that much better than NYU's.</blockquote>

Have you been there?</blockquote>

I wouldn't dare to compare the two had I not been to both campuses at least a dozen times each. Some people like the Columbia campus. Not me. The place reminds me of the colosseum. And I'm not a big fan of that either. Don't get me wrong, I still think it's better than having NO campus. But that's just my opinion.
quote
Meme

I am in the same situation about HR and PIL.

My conclusion is that CLS is stronger.
1) The variety of courses within HR (broad approach, many professors)
2) Access to SIPA may be interesting if you are into HR and political sides of law
3) CLS Human Rights Clinic seems to be the best in its type, according to 3 current CLS students there (ok, they will be biased)
4) The CLS human rights institute seems to bring together incredible people and profiles of all type of rights issues.
5) The name CLS is stronger and more wellrenouned than NYU, and I do believe if you want to specialize in HR you need that to strengthen your profile.

But NYU has lots too.

I have to make up my mind by March 25, orelse I loose the tuition waiver of 25' at CLS.

If someone wants to argue for NYU on HR, and change my mind, please go ahead but right now I am leaning towards CLS!
Meme

I am in the same situation about HR and PIL.

My conclusion is that CLS is stronger.
1) The variety of courses within HR (broad approach, many professors)
2) Access to SIPA may be interesting if you are into HR and political sides of law
3) CLS Human Rights Clinic seems to be the best in its type, according to 3 current CLS students there (ok, they will be biased)
4) The CLS human rights institute seems to bring together incredible people and profiles of all type of rights issues.
5) The name CLS is stronger and more wellrenouned than NYU, and I do believe if you want to specialize in HR you need that to strengthen your profile.

But NYU has lots too.

I have to make up my mind by March 25, orelse I loose the tuition waiver of 25' at CLS.

If someone wants to argue for NYU on HR, and change my mind, please go ahead but right now I am leaning towards CLS!
Meme
quote
mnementh

No kidding. Of course CLS students go to NYU to hang out, like all those bums who hang out near NYU, .


so basically you're proving you're just a moron... I doubt the forum needs advice from idiots like you. If you want to comment on other school rankings you should do it there. In the realm of law, NYU has nothing to be jealous of CLS.... in fact many professors from CLS move to NYU and they know why. it's definitely not because of the bums hanging out (NYU is not the one inside Harlem). NYU has the best professors in most fields... Obviously Dworkin is one of them and all LLM's in the past years studied in his class if they wanted to. Remy is just speaking out of ignorance... of course, if you want to choose CLS you should, it's a good school. But it's no way better than NYU... NYU keeps hiring the best professors in the country, and there are many in CLS who will die to be teaching at NYU... these are the facts. As for acceptance it's not harder to be accepted to CLS at all. People are sometimes confused because of the class sizes but there are so many American LLM's (like 200). As for name prestige, I don't know where it's true. It's not true in many countries that I'm aware of, and it's definitely not true in the U.S either. Not in law.

<blockquote>No kidding. Of course CLS students go to NYU to hang out, like all those bums who hang out near NYU, .</blockquote>

so basically you're proving you're just a moron... I doubt the forum needs advice from idiots like you. If you want to comment on other school rankings you should do it there. In the realm of law, NYU has nothing to be jealous of CLS.... in fact many professors from CLS move to NYU and they know why. it's definitely not because of the bums hanging out (NYU is not the one inside Harlem). NYU has the best professors in most fields... Obviously Dworkin is one of them and all LLM's in the past years studied in his class if they wanted to. Remy is just speaking out of ignorance... of course, if you want to choose CLS you should, it's a good school. But it's no way better than NYU... NYU keeps hiring the best professors in the country, and there are many in CLS who will die to be teaching at NYU... these are the facts. As for acceptance it's not harder to be accepted to CLS at all. People are sometimes confused because of the class sizes but there are so many American LLM's (like 200). As for name prestige, I don't know where it's true. It's not true in many countries that I'm aware of, and it's definitely not true in the U.S either. Not in law.
quote
ARCTIC

I think that both CLS or NYU will feel extremely shameful of having in her campus, students who don´t respect the positions and ideas of others. It´ so sad to read in this blog offensive words such as "moron" or "ignorant".
Let´s learn something about Socrates! Sapere aude!!!
Don´t you want to study through the socratic method??!
Don´t never forget: "One thing only I know, and that is that I know nothing..."

I think that both CLS or NYU will feel extremely shameful of having in her campus, students who don´t respect the positions and ideas of others. It´ so sad to read in this blog offensive words such as "moron" or "ignorant".
Let´s learn something about Socrates! Sapere aude!!!
Don´t you want to study through the socratic method??!
Don´t never forget: "One thing only I know, and that is that I know nothing..."
quote
yasminm

I agree completely with ARCTIC. Like I mentioned elsewhere, the over-zealous defence of institutions renders almost all the "advice" granted here meaningless. The use of "advice" as opposed to advice was intentional because it's not really the latter if it is an unadulterated advertisement of one's own institution. In short, no one wins - neither CLS nor NYU.

I agree completely with ARCTIC. Like I mentioned elsewhere, the over-zealous defence of institutions renders almost all the "advice" granted here meaningless. The use of "advice" as opposed to advice was intentional because it's not really the latter if it is an unadulterated advertisement of one's own institution. In short, no one wins - neither CLS nor NYU.
quote
mnementh

Sometimes comments are really stupid and need commenting on. I don't care which insitution is better or not. But when someone says NYU isn't better because in Architecture or God knows what Columbia is better or because NYU has "no campus" then such stupid comments have the potentinal of getting a vociferous response...

Sometimes comments are really stupid and need commenting on. I don't care which insitution is better or not. But when someone says NYU isn't better because in Architecture or God knows what Columbia is better or because NYU has "no campus" then such stupid comments have the potentinal of getting a vociferous response...
quote
yasminm

quote

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