Some Facts to be in Top law Schools


QSWE

By face of the above reading It is amply clear that LLM will provide a win-win situation for every foreign student but not in terms of job security in USA... Atkins and Jagsmehn, when do you expect to get the current situation (economic crisis) be normal in near future?


By face of the above reading It is amply clear that LLM will provide a win-win situation for every foreign student but not in terms of job security in USA... Atkins and Jagsmehn, when do you expect to get the current situation (economic crisis) be normal in near future?


There are two aspects to this problem:

1) Job market has never been that warm for foreign educated US-LLM holders. So, even when it recovers, things won't change drastically. But peg your expectations beyond 2012 realistically because more than an economic crisis this is a crisis of confidence. Don't take it as a pescimistic opinion, but it is true that we are still far from the bottom, which should ideally be around June 2009, if not 2010, and you should add 2-3 years for the markets to recover.

2) Even with the recession and job cuts, one has a chance at getting jobs. Companies are looking at cost cutting. But thats a wrong way of seeing it. They are looking for Cost Efficiency. I think the era of specialists is going to be over for a few years. Only the excellent are going to hold their fort in the specialist departments. But at the entry level, those who have rounded profiles, for example mixing of 2-3 kinds of work fields, offer the solution, simply because there is very little work in sectors like finance and corporate matters that have held the limelight till now. So, if you offer value for money, i.e. you can be the work-horse without being a big eater of money, you have got a great chance even in the recession.

3) Employment, International Commercial litigation, International Dispute Settlement, Restitution, are the fields to cash in on for the next few years if employability is your concern.

<blockquote>By face of the above reading It is amply clear that LLM will provide a win-win situation for every foreign student but not in terms of job security in USA... Atkins and Jagsmehn, when do you expect to get the current situation (economic crisis) be normal in near future? </blockquote>

<blockquote>By face of the above reading It is amply clear that LLM will provide a win-win situation for every foreign student but not in terms of job security in USA... Atkins and Jagsmehn, when do you expect to get the current situation (economic crisis) be normal in near future? </blockquote>

There are two aspects to this problem:

1) Job market has never been that warm for foreign educated US-LLM holders. So, even when it recovers, things won't change drastically. But peg your expectations beyond 2012 realistically because more than an economic crisis this is a crisis of confidence. Don't take it as a pescimistic opinion, but it is true that we are still far from the bottom, which should ideally be around June 2009, if not 2010, and you should add 2-3 years for the markets to recover.

2) Even with the recession and job cuts, one has a chance at getting jobs. Companies are looking at cost cutting. But thats a wrong way of seeing it. They are looking for Cost Efficiency. I think the era of specialists is going to be over for a few years. Only the excellent are going to hold their fort in the specialist departments. But at the entry level, those who have rounded profiles, for example mixing of 2-3 kinds of work fields, offer the solution, simply because there is very little work in sectors like finance and corporate matters that have held the limelight till now. So, if you offer value for money, i.e. you can be the work-horse without being a big eater of money, you have got a great chance even in the recession.

3) Employment, International Commercial litigation, International Dispute Settlement, Restitution, are the fields to cash in on for the next few years if employability is your concern.
quote
atkins

Jagsmehn's paragraph (2) is especially insightful. No matter what occurs, there will always be jobs for those who are excellent, versatile, and less-costly. Work horses who do not eat a lot of money are really valuable (at least to the firms at which I've practiced).

I am an employment (defense) lawyer, and I am extremely busy right now. Great field, but not so easy to break into. Plaintiffs' employment law is generally feast-or-famine. On the defense side, the trend is toward labor/employment powerhouse specialty firms and smaller niche employment firms taking over the market. The corporate firms in the U.S. are no longer the "go-to" places for companies seeking employment advice. I am not an international lawyer, so I cannot comment on international practice areas. I can, however, confirm that every patent attorney I know has plenty of work to do. So there are opportunities out there, regardless of the dismal market.

Jagsmehn's paragraph (2) is especially insightful. No matter what occurs, there will always be jobs for those who are excellent, versatile, and less-costly. Work horses who do not eat a lot of money are really valuable (at least to the firms at which I've practiced).

I am an employment (defense) lawyer, and I am extremely busy right now. Great field, but not so easy to break into. Plaintiffs' employment law is generally feast-or-famine. On the defense side, the trend is toward labor/employment powerhouse specialty firms and smaller niche employment firms taking over the market. The corporate firms in the U.S. are no longer the "go-to" places for companies seeking employment advice. I am not an international lawyer, so I cannot comment on international practice areas. I can, however, confirm that every patent attorney I know has plenty of work to do. So there are opportunities out there, regardless of the dismal market.
quote
Cedric

Facts to be in a top school: let your rich uncle pay for a new wing in the law library and I think you are in !

Facts to be in a top school: let your rich uncle pay for a new wing in the law library and I think you are in !
quote
nicemanin

Hello friends... i am sure to add that for LLM admission in Kings,Indian students need 65%+.... In such i did not include class rank/publication/work ex. .... I can only say about marks in LLB because i have ^65%+++ and xenataurus in his post confirms it... (refer- http://www.llm-guide.com/board/56261/last/#last ) may be this info. help to the future applicants... i need your expert comments on this as may be there are some exceptions from this...

Hello friends... i am sure to add that for LLM admission in Kings,Indian students need 65%+.... In such i did not include class rank/publication/work ex. .... I can only say about marks in LLB because i have ^65%+++ and xenataurus in his post confirms it... (refer- http://www.llm-guide.com/board/56261/last/#last ) may be this info. help to the future applicants... i need your expert comments on this as may be there are some exceptions from this...
quote
mdiath

"Some of the information and numbers being thrown around in this thread shouldn't be taken as holy writ.

I can only speak for Oxford, and about Canadians, but this idea that your class rank needs to be tied to the "rank" of your school isn't anything I've observed. There are at least 6 Canadians in the BCL this year, and we're all from different schools, spanning the (largely imaginary) range of Canadian institutions. We're not all gold medalists, and I don't think there's a publication between us. We ran a relatively narrow gauntlet of work experience, from 4 years to none.

So far as I can tell, the idea that a country's "second-best" applicant will necessarily be bumped in favour of another country's "first-best" applicant is most likely a hallucination brought about by writing too many internet forum posts.

Moderation in all things, people."

I agree! Come on, if first university's ranking played an important role, no applicant from Africa and India and China would be accepted in favor of applicants from western european countries (no offence but i think that a reason for many rejectionss from top schools is the huge number of applications from mediocre applicants). on the other hand, if there would be a limit to peple accepted from every country, then how can you explain that some countries have 3-4 persons accepted in a year and in the next year none? furthermore, that oppinion equates every university and every country's universities. i mean that even the 20th from university of athens is a better candidate from university of cairo and the 40th graduate of munich is better than the 1st of university of thrace, because these are different institutions with a much different difficulty level!

Moreover, i think it is really sad the fact that "top schools" don't take into consideration professional experience that is much more important than grades according to every person's that practices law oppinion and it consists a much more important school than any university.

"Some of the information and numbers being thrown around in this thread shouldn't be taken as holy writ.

I can only speak for Oxford, and about Canadians, but this idea that your class rank needs to be tied to the "rank" of your school isn't anything I've observed. There are at least 6 Canadians in the BCL this year, and we're all from different schools, spanning the (largely imaginary) range of Canadian institutions. We're not all gold medalists, and I don't think there's a publication between us. We ran a relatively narrow gauntlet of work experience, from 4 years to none.

So far as I can tell, the idea that a country's "second-best" applicant will necessarily be bumped in favour of another country's "first-best" applicant is most likely a hallucination brought about by writing too many internet forum posts.

Moderation in all things, people."

I agree! Come on, if first university's ranking played an important role, no applicant from Africa and India and China would be accepted in favor of applicants from western european countries (no offence but i think that a reason for many rejectionss from top schools is the huge number of applications from mediocre applicants). on the other hand, if there would be a limit to peple accepted from every country, then how can you explain that some countries have 3-4 persons accepted in a year and in the next year none? furthermore, that oppinion equates every university and every country's universities. i mean that even the 20th from university of athens is a better candidate from university of cairo and the 40th graduate of munich is better than the 1st of university of thrace, because these are different institutions with a much different difficulty level!

Moreover, i think it is really sad the fact that "top schools" don't take into consideration professional experience that is much more important than grades according to every person's that practices law oppinion and it consists a much more important school than any university.
quote
nicktracy

what i have observed so far , in order to be in top LLM program you need-

1-10% rank in class
publications/research papers
international and national inter/summer training in legal sector
national and international moots
work ex.
pro-bono work/NGO
Apply as early as possible in law school,
National scholarship

......................... and my best of luck.....

what i have observed so far , in order to be in top LLM program you need-

1-10% rank in class
publications/research papers
international and national inter/summer training in legal sector
national and international moots
work ex.
pro-bono work/NGO
Apply as early as possible in law school,
National scholarship

......................... and my best of luck.....
quote
PUCCA

I wanted to go to LSE,,,i didnt apply to oxford or cambridge cause i thought i didnt stand a chance i dont know!
However Lse rejected me and decided to go to UCL instead, which i also consider a very good university :)
I must say i wasnt like the top top but i had very good grades, loooots of volunteering experience, work experience, im certified translator for english, french and spanish, i also speak italian, i have travelled a lot to do different courses,,,i actually thought this would help me get into LSE but i guess people there have far better grades or more important experiences than me,,,its really complicated but after all m really happy about going to UCL :)

I wanted to go to LSE,,,i didnt apply to oxford or cambridge cause i thought i didnt stand a chance i dont know!
However Lse rejected me and decided to go to UCL instead, which i also consider a very good university :)
I must say i wasnt like the top top but i had very good grades, loooots of volunteering experience, work experience, im certified translator for english, french and spanish, i also speak italian, i have travelled a lot to do different courses,,,i actually thought this would help me get into LSE but i guess people there have far better grades or more important experiences than me,,,its really complicated but after all m really happy about going to UCL :)
quote
pritt

Very impressive! I just wonder how old you are Pucca? and how old are these people who have so many experience? :-)

Very impressive! I just wonder how old you are Pucca? and how old are these people who have so many experience? :-)
quote
Colorado

Very interesting posts indeed. I am aware that you are dealing esentially with Oxford and Cambridge, however I should be most grateful whether you could please let me know your thoughts about Durham University (UK).
I am going this year for an LLM.
Thanks so much.

Very interesting posts indeed. I am aware that you are dealing esentially with Oxford and Cambridge, however I should be most grateful whether you could please let me know your thoughts about Durham University (UK).
I am going this year for an LLM.
Thanks so much.
quote
obamausa8

This is an interesting discussion.. thank you for sharing.

This is an interesting discussion.. thank you for sharing.
quote
nicktracy

Really a good discussion...

Really a good discussion...
quote
Borat_USA

Let me explain something. REAL LIFE!! REAL GAME!!!

I was not a top student in my class (law school) and my grades were never that good.

Basically I am sure that I am not the best applicant from my home country.

However, I have been accepted to LSE, Kings, Queen Mary and UCL!!!! I have also been admitted to several top 10 universities in US!!

THEREFORE, GO AHEAD!!! APPLY TO TOUR DREAM UNIVERSITY. EXPEND SOME TIME WRITING YOUR PS AND OTHER DOCS AND GET SOME AWESOME RECOMMENDATION. YOU WILL GET IN.

And most important, enjoy the moment. There isn't a formula to get into a good univesity.

Have a good one!!

Cheers,

Borat


Let me explain something. REAL LIFE!! REAL GAME!!!

I was not a top student in my class (law school) and my grades were never that good.

Basically I am sure that I am not the best applicant from my home country.

However, I have been accepted to LSE, Kings, Queen Mary and UCL!!!! I have also been admitted to several top 10 universities in US!!

THEREFORE, GO AHEAD!!! APPLY TO TOUR DREAM UNIVERSITY. EXPEND SOME TIME WRITING YOUR PS AND OTHER DOCS AND GET SOME AWESOME RECOMMENDATION. YOU WILL GET IN.

And most important, enjoy the moment. There isn't a formula to get into a good univesity.

Have a good one!!

Cheers,

Borat
quote
beicon

I believe that's the spirit. There's no magic formula and I too wasn't the best student back in my undergraduate programme but even so I've been accepted to UCL, KCL and QM (kicked in the arse by LSE though). I haven't got any publication to back me up... and the only thing that I do have is work experience... My advice: apply away.

I believe that's the spirit. There's no magic formula and I too wasn't the best student back in my undergraduate programme but even so I've been accepted to UCL, KCL and QM (kicked in the arse by LSE though). I haven't got any publication to back me up... and the only thing that I do have is work experience... My advice: apply away.
quote
nicktracy

please beware.. there are some educational university agent who sometimes run this blog and support LLM spirit.. anyways this website also run by virtue of the advertisement of many universities.. by the way... everyone is wise here and tell me.. why only LSE, Ox and Camb. take fee for your application.. ? why not all the rest universities ( exceptions are there-UCL etc.)... because LLM students are "cash cows"....

please beware.. there are some educational university agent who sometimes run this blog and support LLM spirit.. anyways this website also run by virtue of the advertisement of many universities.. by the way... everyone is wise here and tell me.. why only LSE, Ox and Camb. take fee for your application.. ? why not all the rest universities ( exceptions are there-UCL etc.)... because LLM students are "cash cows"....
quote
MAB79

Hello friends... by addressing this issue i want to say that In order to be in top 10 law schools in UK ,you will have to be among top 20 candidates from your Country... It is true that every law school/uni. has not more than 2-3 seats for a country, but it may be 5-6 in case of exceptional candidates... Your credits, class rank, your law school rank in your home country,work ex. all matters.... Whats say?


Simply not true, at least not completely! I have a lot of friends that used to study at a top ten uni in uk and some of them experienced that the have been admitted to a "less" top law school, while other freinds in the same year with much worse credentials have been admitted to oxbridge etc. Sure, if you are top, then you will at least be accepted at top unis, but it is never clear that there are candidates, that got the better shot, although they are worse regarding their cv!!!

And last but not least: The thread should have the title Some opinions to be in top law schools and not facts...

<blockquote>Hello friends... by addressing this issue i want to say that In order to be in top 10 law schools in UK ,you will have to be among top 20 candidates from your Country... It is true that every law school/uni. has not more than 2-3 seats for a country, but it may be 5-6 in case of exceptional candidates... Your credits, class rank, your law school rank in your home country,work ex. all matters.... Whats say?</blockquote>

Simply not true, at least not completely! I have a lot of friends that used to study at a top ten uni in uk and some of them experienced that the have been admitted to a "less" top law school, while other freinds in the same year with much worse credentials have been admitted to oxbridge etc. Sure, if you are top, then you will at least be accepted at top unis, but it is never clear that there are candidates, that got the better shot, although they are worse regarding their cv!!!

And last but not least: The thread should have the title Some opinions to be in top law schools and not facts...
quote
cmars

You might like to know what the top law schools are - here is the government ranking based on research: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/table/2008/dec/18/rae-results-2008-law-degree
Note a lot of schools cluster between 2.4-2.9 - LSE is far and away top.

You might like to know what the top law schools are - here is the government ranking based on research: http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/table/2008/dec/18/rae-results-2008-law-degree
Note a lot of schools cluster between 2.4-2.9 - LSE is far and away top.
quote

i am in 9th grade currently n i am an indian i want to study law in harvar law school but i m so confused so many sites on net its dsamn sad and confusing please help me out

i am in 9th grade currently n i am an indian i want to study law in harvar law school but i m so confused so many sites on net its dsamn sad and confusing please help me out
quote
flori

i am in 9th grade currently n i am an indian i want to study law in harvar law school but i m so confused so many sites on net its dsamn sad and confusing please help me out


Well,
to me the next step to lay the foundation of your future successful academic career at Harvard is quite obvious - you cannot go wrong with improving your language skills.

Sorry, if this might sound a little bit harsh...
Flori

<blockquote>i am in 9th grade currently n i am an indian i want to study law in harvar law school but i m so confused so many sites on net its dsamn sad and confusing please help me out</blockquote>

Well,
to me the next step to lay the foundation of your future successful academic career at Harvard is quite obvious - you cannot go wrong with improving your language skills.

Sorry, if this might sound a little bit harsh...
Flori
quote
Floris

you cannot go wrong with improving your language skills.
well, at least for some guys, this is the whole essence of doing an LLM. Especially for people from countries with a great - and not common law influenced legal tradition.

<blockquote><blockquote>you cannot go wrong with improving your language skills.
</blockquote> well, at least for some guys, this is the whole essence of doing an LLM. Especially for people from countries with a great - and not common law influenced legal tradition.
quote
flori

well, at least for some guys, this is the whole essence of doing an LLM. Especially for people from countries with a great - and not common law influenced legal tradition.


While your statement is absolutely true, I still have some doubts whether the LLM programme at Harvard is a "One year legal English course". Of course, people will improve their English over there, but - with all due respect - their original level of language skills deviates from the level obtained by the person who posted this specific question.

And - again with all due respect - in my eyes this kind of answer and not the "Go for it, the admissions tutor is already waiting for you" kind of answer is the honest one.
Bye
flori

<blockquote>well, at least for some guys, this is the whole essence of doing an LLM. Especially for people from countries with a great - and not common law influenced legal tradition.</blockquote>

While your statement is absolutely true, I still have some doubts whether the LLM programme at Harvard is a "One year legal English course". Of course, people will improve their English over there, but - with all due respect - their original level of language skills deviates from the level obtained by the person who posted this specific question.

And - again with all due respect - in my eyes this kind of answer and not the "Go for it, the admissions tutor is already waiting for you" kind of answer is the honest one.
Bye
flori
quote

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