Oxford/Cambridge as 2nd LLM


Vanquish

Hi,

Sorry if this has been asked before, but does anyone know whether oxford or cambridge accepts applicants who already have a 1st LLM albeit a foreign one. I think I read that Cambridge doesn't accept applications from individuals with english LLMs, does this apply to other LLMs as well? My first LLM will be from Canada.

And is work experience required for applying to either of these LLMs?

Thanks for the help

Hi,

Sorry if this has been asked before, but does anyone know whether oxford or cambridge accepts applicants who already have a 1st LLM albeit a foreign one. I think I read that Cambridge doesn't accept applications from individuals with english LLMs, does this apply to other LLMs as well? My first LLM will be from Canada.

And is work experience required for applying to either of these LLMs?

Thanks for the help
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equity's d...

don't know about the first question, but regarding the second one, no, experience not required but is helpful

don't know about the first question, but regarding the second one, no, experience not required but is helpful
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Vanquish

Thanks ED!

Thanks ED!

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omega24

As long as your first LLM wasn't from an English University there is no problem. Just finished LLM this year and I had a previous LLM, as did numerous other members of the class. A lot of the German students had Doctorates! Work experience not really all that relevant, unlike US law schools. In Oxford and Cambridge results are all that count. If you don't meet the requisite standard then you don't get in. Being on the cusp of a First Class Honours plus exceptional extracurricular activites is sometimes enough though. The results that are most relevant are those that pertain to your most recent degree, therefore if you have an LLM, then it is the results of the LLM that are most important.

As long as your first LLM wasn't from an English University there is no problem. Just finished LLM this year and I had a previous LLM, as did numerous other members of the class. A lot of the German students had Doctorates! Work experience not really all that relevant, unlike US law schools. In Oxford and Cambridge results are all that count. If you don't meet the requisite standard then you don't get in. Being on the cusp of a First Class Honours plus exceptional extracurricular activites is sometimes enough though. The results that are most relevant are those that pertain to your most recent degree, therefore if you have an LLM, then it is the results of the LLM that are most important.
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equity's d...

Hi Omega24,

As I will be doing the cantab LLm bnext year, I would very much appreciate any insight you can provide about your experience.

Which courses did you take? Would you reccomend taking them again? Any profs that are great, others to avoid?
How did your grades turn out-i.e. was it tougher, easier, the xame as you anticipated?

Thanks,
ED

Hi Omega24,

As I will be doing the cantab LLm bnext year, I would very much appreciate any insight you can provide about your experience.

Which courses did you take? Would you reccomend taking them again? Any profs that are great, others to avoid?
How did your grades turn out-i.e. was it tougher, easier, the xame as you anticipated?

Thanks,
ED
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Vanquish

Thanks omega!

Thanks omega!
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Ie

Hi Omega, I'm also interested in the questions Equity's Darling asked to you :) So, if you can find time to answer, that would be great.

Hi Omega, I'm also interested in the questions Equity's Darling asked to you :) So, if you can find time to answer, that would be great.
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omega24

Hey, I did Restitution, Intellectual Property, International Banking and Competition. I loved Restitution, IP and Banking. Lectures were enjoyable and engaging and the seminars were great as well. Competition law was abysmal. Teaching was sub-par, haphazzard and generally useless. Most people were caught out in the exam as well. The Restitution exam was very tough and specific. If you worked all year it could still be slightly hit and miss and it's marked harshly as well. That being said the girl who came first overall was in Restitution, but she had done it previously on the Oxford MJUR (if it's the person I'm thinking of). Commercial Papers and generally subjects that were heavily subscribed (25 -30) tended to have harsher marks. It's understandable given that you are competing with some of the best in the World. The majority of overall firsts were achieved by people who didn't pick a concentration and took a mish-mash of subjects from across the disciplines or who picked mostly seminar papers with only 5 people or less. Small seminars = more Firsts. I got a 2.1 but my marks weren't spectacular (and I wasn't really working for or interested in doing any better). If you work EXTREMELY hard, you pick the right subjects, or are naturally gifted at particular subjects or have done them before, then a First is a possibility. I would have to say that the marking was much tougher than I expected, but in hindsight I probably shouldnt have been surprised given where I was lol.
I had a fantastic year and learned loads. Did wonders for my confidence and I made some great friends. Hope you enjoy it as well.

Hey, I did Restitution, Intellectual Property, International Banking and Competition. I loved Restitution, IP and Banking. Lectures were enjoyable and engaging and the seminars were great as well. Competition law was abysmal. Teaching was sub-par, haphazzard and generally useless. Most people were caught out in the exam as well. The Restitution exam was very tough and specific. If you worked all year it could still be slightly hit and miss and it's marked harshly as well. That being said the girl who came first overall was in Restitution, but she had done it previously on the Oxford MJUR (if it's the person I'm thinking of). Commercial Papers and generally subjects that were heavily subscribed (25 -30) tended to have harsher marks. It's understandable given that you are competing with some of the best in the World. The majority of overall firsts were achieved by people who didn't pick a concentration and took a mish-mash of subjects from across the disciplines or who picked mostly seminar papers with only 5 people or less. Small seminars = more Firsts. I got a 2.1 but my marks weren't spectacular (and I wasn't really working for or interested in doing any better). If you work EXTREMELY hard, you pick the right subjects, or are naturally gifted at particular subjects or have done them before, then a First is a possibility. I would have to say that the marking was much tougher than I expected, but in hindsight I probably shouldnt have been surprised given where I was lol.
I had a fantastic year and learned loads. Did wonders for my confidence and I made some great friends. Hope you enjoy it as well.
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Vanquish

Hi Omega,

This is probably a long shot, since I'm asking about subjects you didn't take, but have you have heard anything about the juris course and the political theory seminar? More specifically, if you have any friends taking either of these two courses, did they find it interesting? How were the profs? And do you have any idea what topics they covered in the political theory seminar as the cambridge webpage doesn't reflect that sort of information?

Thanks

Hi Omega,

This is probably a long shot, since I'm asking about subjects you didn't take, but have you have heard anything about the juris course and the political theory seminar? More specifically, if you have any friends taking either of these two courses, did they find it interesting? How were the profs? And do you have any idea what topics they covered in the political theory seminar as the cambridge webpage doesn't reflect that sort of information?

Thanks
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Yellow

I knew a couple of people who did jurisprudence. The only advice I have is be prepared to read alot. As in upwards of a book a week. I would also say that of the people I knew who did do it they tended to have majored in philosophy for their undergrad and so were fairly au fait with a lot of the work from a general interest perspective. I loved jurisprudence as an undergrad but I don't think that I would have been able to keep up in that course.

I knew a couple of people who did jurisprudence. The only advice I have is be prepared to read alot. As in upwards of a book a week. I would also say that of the people I knew who did do it they tended to have majored in philosophy for their undergrad and so were fairly au fait with a lot of the work from a general interest perspective. I loved jurisprudence as an undergrad but I don't think that I would have been able to keep up in that course.
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Vanquish

Thanks yellow :)

Thanks yellow :)

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Ie

Omega, thanks a lot for your useful insight. I'll also take IP, and am considering also international IP. Do you have any feedback on that? Somebody else in this forum said that it was quite chaotic and not very useful. Yes, and you're already a second or third person who didn't enjoy competition at all. I was considering doing competition a little, but after hearing all this feedback, moreover, as it is not my chief interest, I probably won't take it. Also, any thoughts about the corporate finance and EC trade law? Thanks a lot in advance for being so helpful.

Omega, thanks a lot for your useful insight. I'll also take IP, and am considering also international IP. Do you have any feedback on that? Somebody else in this forum said that it was quite chaotic and not very useful. Yes, and you're already a second or third person who didn't enjoy competition at all. I was considering doing competition a little, but after hearing all this feedback, moreover, as it is not my chief interest, I probably won't take it. Also, any thoughts about the corporate finance and EC trade law? Thanks a lot in advance for being so helpful.
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sarahb

"Cambridge does not normally offer a place on the LL.M. course to an applicant who already holds or is currently studying for an LL.M. from a UK institution. However, exceptions might be made in cases where applicants plan to use the Cambridge LL.M. to develop their studies in a different direction to their previous UK LL.M."

From here:

http://www.law.cam.ac.uk/courses/llm/academic_and_language_requirements.php

"Cambridge does not normally offer a place on the LL.M. course to an applicant who already holds or is currently studying for an LL.M. from a UK institution. However, exceptions might be made in cases where applicants plan to use the Cambridge LL.M. to develop their studies in a different direction to their previous UK LL.M."

From here:

http://www.law.cam.ac.uk/courses/llm/academic_and_language_requirements.php
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Vanquish

Hi sarah,

thanks that's extremely helpful, can't believe i miss out the latter portion when i was browsing the website. DOH!

Hi sarah,

thanks that's extremely helpful, can't believe i miss out the latter portion when i was browsing the website. DOH!

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ozman

hi, i read on this board somewhere that ur last degree would count towards getting admitted in cambridge, i have an llb and a bvc, albeit with a 2.2 and a competent, however i will be commencing an llm this year in either ucl or warwick depending whose offer i receive, how would anyone here rate my chances of getting into an llm at cambridge, will my previous average grades matter or if i do very well in the llm will decide my chances at cambridge, further i am aware tht it is extremely difficult although not impossible for someone who already has an english llm to get into cambridge, i will be doing my first llm in either international trade law or corp. governance and i wish to study international law at cambridge, could anyone rate my chances please, i know you guys r not the admissions committee, but some of you especially who r cambridge graduates could make some kind of evaluation.

hi, i read on this board somewhere that ur last degree would count towards getting admitted in cambridge, i have an llb and a bvc, albeit with a 2.2 and a competent, however i will be commencing an llm this year in either ucl or warwick depending whose offer i receive, how would anyone here rate my chances of getting into an llm at cambridge, will my previous average grades matter or if i do very well in the llm will decide my chances at cambridge, further i am aware tht it is extremely difficult although not impossible for someone who already has an english llm to get into cambridge, i will be doing my first llm in either international trade law or corp. governance and i wish to study international law at cambridge, could anyone rate my chances please, i know you guys r not the admissions committee, but some of you especially who r cambridge graduates could make some kind of evaluation.
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Yellow

Look it's never a bad idea to apply. It doesn't cost anything after all. Realistically I would be surprised if you got an offer from UCL with your grades as they stand and you have no chance of getting into Cambridge. Even if by some miracle you managed to do much much much better at masters level than you were capable of thus far and by that I mean finishing really near the top of your class I don't think it's likely that you'll get an offer. Firstly most of the people who get offered places have a first class degree. Secondly, Cambridge has said that they don't offer places to people who already have an LLM from a UK institution and I don't imagine my grades are bad count as an exceptional reason to break this policy. I certainly never met a person in Cambridge who was doing a second LLM, yes there were some students, notably Germans who had obtained or were in the process of obtaining PhDs, however these students had not done an LLM, their educational system not to mention their legal system is so different that I imagine it's felt they will gain something from doing an LLM in the UK. I would imagine that if someone had done an LLM a number of years ago then worked and was trying to change direction or had done so and was looking to obtain a different sort of qualification then they might have a better chance.

Look it's never a bad idea to apply. It doesn't cost anything after all. Realistically I would be surprised if you got an offer from UCL with your grades as they stand and you have no chance of getting into Cambridge. Even if by some miracle you managed to do much much much better at masters level than you were capable of thus far and by that I mean finishing really near the top of your class I don't think it's likely that you'll get an offer. Firstly most of the people who get offered places have a first class degree. Secondly, Cambridge has said that they don't offer places to people who already have an LLM from a UK institution and I don't imagine my grades are bad count as an exceptional reason to break this policy. I certainly never met a person in Cambridge who was doing a second LLM, yes there were some students, notably Germans who had obtained or were in the process of obtaining PhDs, however these students had not done an LLM, their educational system not to mention their legal system is so different that I imagine it's felt they will gain something from doing an LLM in the UK. I would imagine that if someone had done an LLM a number of years ago then worked and was trying to change direction or had done so and was looking to obtain a different sort of qualification then they might have a better chance.
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TomBanana

Yellow, my apologies at jumping in here and asking you further advice, but you seem to know what you're talking about.

I am a South African law graduate with fairly average grades (I think my final year LL.B mark was 64%). However I have since 2005 advanced quite rapidly through the United Nations, and have a very good job with an extremely strong international criminal law component. I am considering doing an LLM, but given the cost / benefit analysis of taking a year off and doing the LLM vs. continuing in my current job I would only really be willing to do so if I got a place at a very good univiersity. I hold an Irish passport, so am (for financial reasons) attracted to Cambridge and, perhaps, UCL or LSE.

My question is: do you think my relevant work experience and obvious interest in the subject would be a factor that could result in my being admitted to a Cambridge international law LLM? Your advice would be appreciated.

Yellow, my apologies at jumping in here and asking you further advice, but you seem to know what you're talking about.

I am a South African law graduate with fairly average grades (I think my final year LL.B mark was 64%). However I have since 2005 advanced quite rapidly through the United Nations, and have a very good job with an extremely strong international criminal law component. I am considering doing an LLM, but given the cost / benefit analysis of taking a year off and doing the LLM vs. continuing in my current job I would only really be willing to do so if I got a place at a very good univiersity. I hold an Irish passport, so am (for financial reasons) attracted to Cambridge and, perhaps, UCL or LSE.

My question is: do you think my relevant work experience and obvious interest in the subject would be a factor that could result in my being admitted to a Cambridge international law LLM? Your advice would be appreciated.
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Yellow

Firstly I'm not too sure that having an Irish passport is going to help, unless you have been resident in the EU for the last 3 years, although as a commonwealth citizen you may still be entitled to pay non-international fees I think. Secondly, how did you get that job?!! Thirdly, I imagine that it is not terribly likely you would get into Cambridge. I'm sure you would have no problem getting into LSE or UCL but Cambridge is more grades orientated and there's no getting away from that. That said clearly work experience will somewhat mitigate that the further you get from your undergrad however you are still quite a recent grad and I imagine that it would be more likely to sway them had you been working for say 10 years. Have you thought about the M.Stud in Human Rights in Oxford? May completely not be for you but I imagine that if you were to do it and do well you could then do the LLM in Cambridge. It would also mean that you wouldn't have to quit your job as it's mainly part-time and by distance learning. In any case it is definately worth applying to the LLM. One thing I would suggest is getting in contact with a senior member of faculty who teaches in the area that most interests you on the LLM and asking their opinion. I would say that most of them would be willing to let you know if your profile didn't fit what they usually accepted as in 'well we've never taken anyone on your grades before' or whatever. In any case it's worth a try and it also puts your name out there.

Firstly I'm not too sure that having an Irish passport is going to help, unless you have been resident in the EU for the last 3 years, although as a commonwealth citizen you may still be entitled to pay non-international fees I think. Secondly, how did you get that job?!! Thirdly, I imagine that it is not terribly likely you would get into Cambridge. I'm sure you would have no problem getting into LSE or UCL but Cambridge is more grades orientated and there's no getting away from that. That said clearly work experience will somewhat mitigate that the further you get from your undergrad however you are still quite a recent grad and I imagine that it would be more likely to sway them had you been working for say 10 years. Have you thought about the M.Stud in Human Rights in Oxford? May completely not be for you but I imagine that if you were to do it and do well you could then do the LLM in Cambridge. It would also mean that you wouldn't have to quit your job as it's mainly part-time and by distance learning. In any case it is definately worth applying to the LLM. One thing I would suggest is getting in contact with a senior member of faculty who teaches in the area that most interests you on the LLM and asking their opinion. I would say that most of them would be willing to let you know if your profile didn't fit what they usually accepted as in 'well we've never taken anyone on your grades before' or whatever. In any case it's worth a try and it also puts your name out there. [I realise that any lecturers who read this forum now want to strangle me but anyway...]
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TomBanana

Many thanks Yellow. Much appreciated.

Many thanks Yellow. Much appreciated.
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Ivan13

Dear colleges,

Could you tell me whether I have any chance to be accepted by Oxbridge for the LLM/MJuris program if I was in top 3% of the class in the law school where I got my first law degree and in top 30% in the LLM class (US law school)?

Thanks in advance,

Dear colleges,

Could you tell me whether I have any chance to be accepted by Oxbridge for the LLM/MJuris program if I was in top 3% of the class in the law school where I got my first law degree and in top 30% in the LLM class (US law school)?

Thanks in advance,
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