LLM Maritime Law job prospects


lolipop25
Hi all

I was thinking in applying for an LLM in maritime law from Swansea university.

Can anybody tell me what are the job prospects nowadays??? I wish to work in a maritime law department or in logistics with some company like Maersk or safamarine....I dont know if you study logistics in the LLM......

what do you think??
Hi all

I was thinking in applying for an LLM in maritime law from Swansea university.

Can anybody tell me what are the job prospects nowadays??? I wish to work in a maritime law department or in logistics with some company like Maersk or safamarine....I dont know if you study logistics in the LLM......

what do you think??
flori
Hello Lolipop,

Hi all

I was thinking in applying for an LLM in maritime law from Swansea university.

Can anybody tell me what are the job prospects nowadays??? I wish to work in a maritime law department or in logistics with some company like Maersk or safamarine....I dont know if you study logistics in the LLM......

what do you think??


Unfortunately your posting is not specific enough - there is no such thing as "one job market" for LLM graduates.
The decisive questions are:
Where? (HQ of the respective company, regional branch office etc.)
In what function? (Lawyer/Legal Counsel, Paralegal or support staff)
What are your current qualifications? (Fully qualified lawyer in the UK, in XY; experience in the industry etc...)

As far as the value of an LLM as an entry ticket to the operative business (logistics) of a shipping company is concerned, the value amounts to exactly zero.

If you already had experience in the operative business, the LLM might act as a career-booster, that is an entirely different matter, though.

Bye
flori
Hello Lolipop,

<blockquote>Hi all

I was thinking in applying for an LLM in maritime law from Swansea university.

Can anybody tell me what are the job prospects nowadays??? I wish to work in a maritime law department or in logistics with some company like Maersk or safamarine....I dont know if you study logistics in the LLM......

what do you think??</blockquote>

Unfortunately your posting is not specific enough - there is no such thing as "one job market" for LLM graduates.
The decisive questions are:
Where? (HQ of the respective company, regional branch office etc.)
In what function? (Lawyer/Legal Counsel, Paralegal or support staff)
What are your current qualifications? (Fully qualified lawyer in the UK, in XY; experience in the industry etc...)

As far as the value of an LLM as an entry ticket to the operative business (logistics) of a shipping company is concerned, the value amounts to exactly zero.

If you already had experience in the operative business, the LLM might act as a career-booster, that is an entirely different matter, though.

Bye
flori
lolipop25
Thanks for your message Flori

I dont have any experience in this field of law (I'm just a civil lawyer) but I'd like to focus my career on it. The idea is to work within a branch office in the legal counsel or logistics

- Do you know of any good master in maritime law & logistics together? or It would be better to pursue both separetrly?

- I was wondering if It's a good idea to pursue an LLM in one hand and on the other the MBA in shipping and logistics from the "LLoyds Academy" or some similar diploma in logistics by distance learning as well....any idea???
Thanks for your message Flori

I dont have any experience in this field of law (I'm just a civil lawyer) but I'd like to focus my career on it. The idea is to work within a branch office in the legal counsel or logistics

- Do you know of any good master in maritime law & logistics together? or It would be better to pursue both separetrly?

- I was wondering if It's a good idea to pursue an LLM in one hand and on the other the MBA in shipping and logistics from the "LLoyds Academy" or some similar diploma in logistics by distance learning as well....any idea???
flori
Hello Lolipop,

Thanks for your message Flori

I dont have any experience in this field of law (I'm just a civil lawyer) but I'd like to focus my career on it. The idea is to work within a branch office in the legal counsel or logistics



Well, the most import thing first - I don't want to be the one to shatter your "logistics"-dreams and my opinion is just what it is, an opinion. However, in my opinion this option simply is not a realistic one without any practical experience in the logistics field.



- Do you know of any good master in maritime law & logistics together?

No.


or It would be better to pursue both separetrly?


No - in my eyes the amassment of degrees definitely is not a feasible entry ticket into the operative business.


- I was wondering if It's a good idea to pursue an LLM in one hand and on the other the MBA in shipping and logistics from the "LLoyds Academy" or some similar diploma in logistics by distance learning as well....any idea???

http://www.mba4shipping.com/


Yes. The networking opportunities offered by an online course will be marginal. Without experience and without contacts the whole endeavor will be futile.

I am terribly sorry, I would have preferred to write a more optimistic posting about the logistics-part...

Legal Counsel: Would working as a maritime lawyer be a realistic option for you? If so and with a few years of experience in this legal field, the opportunity of working as an in-house counsel of a shipping company might arise at some point in your career.
Bye
flori
Hello Lolipop,

<blockquote>Thanks for your message Flori

I dont have any experience in this field of law (I'm just a civil lawyer) but I'd like to focus my career on it. The idea is to work within a branch office in the legal counsel or logistics

</blockquote>

Well, the most import thing first - I don't want to be the one to shatter your "logistics"-dreams and my opinion is just what it is, an opinion. However, in my opinion this option simply is not a realistic one without any practical experience in the logistics field.


<blockquote>
- Do you know of any good master in maritime law & logistics together?
</blockquote>
No.

<blockquote>
or It would be better to pursue both separetrly?
</blockquote>

No - in my eyes the amassment of degrees definitely is not a feasible entry ticket into the operative business.

<blockquote>
- I was wondering if It's a good idea to pursue an LLM in one hand and on the other the MBA in shipping and logistics from the "LLoyds Academy" or some similar diploma in logistics by distance learning as well....any idea???

http://www.mba4shipping.com/</blockquote>

Yes. The networking opportunities offered by an online course will be marginal. Without experience and without contacts the whole endeavor will be futile.

I am terribly sorry, I would have preferred to write a more optimistic posting about the logistics-part...

Legal Counsel: Would working as a maritime lawyer be a realistic option for you? If so and with a few years of experience in this legal field, the opportunity of working as an in-house counsel of a shipping company might arise at some point in your career.
Bye
flori
lolipop25
Thanks for your message Flori... I appreciate very much your realistic comments..Seriously... I am very grateful

1. The thing is: how anyone could join the logistic world??? not a master without work experience then how I get the work experience??? Should I studied other degree instead of law???

2. If Im a lawyer without any previous work experience regarding the maritime law (speaking about the job market nowadays), is there any REALISTIC possibility of having my career boosted to this field of law (legal counsil, law firm, etc) if I study an LLM p,e, at Swansea or Southamptom or the market is just collapsed in UK (I supose there are not many law firms as this field is very specific)???. Frankly, I cannot see the statistics of the mentioned unversities and that's why I'm a bit suspicious..... I dont know what happened witht he previous students....

3.In any case, besides from the above, the distance learning (MBA) from places like Middlesex university (they develop their programs together with Lloyd's academy)? are useful and are "well reputated" or just for collecting certificates without any value?

http://www.mdx.ac.uk/courses/postgraduate/business_and_management/oil_and_gas_mba.aspx
http://www.mdx.ac.uk/courses/postgraduate/business_and_management/shipping_logistics_mba.aspx

Thank you very much one more time Flori
Thanks for your message Flori... I appreciate very much your realistic comments..Seriously... I am very grateful

1. The thing is: how anyone could join the logistic world??? not a master without work experience then how I get the work experience??? Should I studied other degree instead of law???

2. If Im a lawyer without any previous work experience regarding the maritime law (speaking about the job market nowadays), is there any REALISTIC possibility of having my career boosted to this field of law (legal counsil, law firm, etc) if I study an LLM p,e, at Swansea or Southamptom or the market is just collapsed in UK (I supose there are not many law firms as this field is very specific)???. Frankly, I cannot see the statistics of the mentioned unversities and that's why I'm a bit suspicious..... I dont know what happened witht he previous students....

3.In any case, besides from the above, the distance learning (MBA) from places like Middlesex university (they develop their programs together with Lloyd's academy)? are useful and are "well reputated" or just for collecting certificates without any value?

http://www.mdx.ac.uk/courses/postgraduate/business_and_management/oil_and_gas_mba.aspx
http://www.mdx.ac.uk/courses/postgraduate/business_and_management/shipping_logistics_mba.aspx

Thank you very much one more time Flori
flori
Hello Lolipop,

Thanks for your message Flori... I appreciate very much your realistic comments..Seriously... I am very grateful

1. The thing is: how anyone could join the logistic world??? not a master without work experience then how I get the work experience??? Should I studied other degree instead of law???


Other degree: As far as the core logistics operative business the value as an entry ticket of a law degree would roughly be the same as a degree in English Literature or Medicine.

There are dedicated logistics programmes at universities or other, more-practically orientated education institutions (universities of applied science, colleges etc.) starting at day 0 - not 5, 6, 7, 8 years (roughly the length of becoming a fully-qualified lawyer in a civil law country) later.

Furthermore at least in some countries there are excellent "apprenticeships" or dual-systems studies (50% at the workplace, 50% in class) in this area - and yes, from my first-hand experience as a legal counsellor at one of the largest European trading enterprise groups those programmes offer splendid career opportunities.


2. If Im a lawyer without any previous work experience regarding the maritime law (speaking about the job market nowadays), is there any REALISTIC possibility of having my career boosted to this field of law (legal counsil, law firm, etc) if I study an LLM p,e, at Swansea or Southamptom or the market is just collapsed in UK (I supose there are not many law firms as this field is very specific)???


Legal counsel in a shipping company: Without any previous experience, the option does not seem feasible to me at all - sorry...

Law firm: If I understand your posting correctly, you are aiming for a job in the UK market - without any previous work experience, internships or other training it will certainly be difficult, but not impossible - you will have to choose a programme with very close industry ties, deliver a stunning performance in the programme and manage to get yourself an internship/stage/summer placement, though.


3.In any case, besides from the above, the distance learning (MBA) from places like Middlesex university (they develop their programs together with Lloyd's academy)? are useful and are "well reputated" or just for collecting certificates without any value?

http://www.mdx.ac.uk/courses/postgraduate/business_and_management/oil_and_gas_mba.aspx
http://www.mdx.ac.uk/courses/postgraduate/business_and_management/shipping_logistics_mba.aspx


Well, they might be well reputated or not - the decisive point is that such a programme will not provide you with the required networking opportunities. If you decide to further pursue the whole maritime industry idea, you need a programme where you get to know people already in the maritime industry...
Bye
flori
Hello Lolipop,

<blockquote>Thanks for your message Flori... I appreciate very much your realistic comments..Seriously... I am very grateful

1. The thing is: how anyone could join the logistic world??? not a master without work experience then how I get the work experience??? Should I studied other degree instead of law???
</blockquote>

Other degree: As far as the core logistics operative business the value as an entry ticket of a law degree would roughly be the same as a degree in English Literature or Medicine.

There are dedicated logistics programmes at universities or other, more-practically orientated education institutions (universities of applied science, colleges etc.) starting at day 0 - not 5, 6, 7, 8 years (roughly the length of becoming a fully-qualified lawyer in a civil law country) later.

Furthermore at least in some countries there are excellent "apprenticeships" or dual-systems studies (50% at the workplace, 50% in class) in this area - and yes, from my first-hand experience as a legal counsellor at one of the largest European trading enterprise groups those programmes offer splendid career opportunities.

<blockquote>
2. If Im a lawyer without any previous work experience regarding the maritime law (speaking about the job market nowadays), is there any REALISTIC possibility of having my career boosted to this field of law (legal counsil, law firm, etc) if I study an LLM p,e, at Swansea or Southamptom or the market is just collapsed in UK (I supose there are not many law firms as this field is very specific)???
</blockquote>

Legal counsel in a shipping company: Without any previous experience, the option does not seem feasible to me at all - sorry...

Law firm: If I understand your posting correctly, you are aiming for a job in the UK market - without any previous work experience, internships or other training it will certainly be difficult, but not impossible - you will have to choose a programme with very close industry ties, deliver a stunning performance in the programme and manage to get yourself an internship/stage/summer placement, though.

<blockquote>
3.In any case, besides from the above, the distance learning (MBA) from places like Middlesex university (they develop their programs together with Lloyd's academy)? are useful and are "well reputated" or just for collecting certificates without any value?

http://www.mdx.ac.uk/courses/postgraduate/business_and_management/oil_and_gas_mba.aspx
http://www.mdx.ac.uk/courses/postgraduate/business_and_management/shipping_logistics_mba.aspx
</blockquote>

Well, they might be well reputated or not - the decisive point is that such a programme will not provide you with the required networking opportunities. If you decide to further pursue the whole maritime industry idea, you need a programme where you get to know people already in the maritime industry...
Bye
flori
abhijeein
Hallo flori,

I am basically a seafarer with around 14 years of experience. I have last sailed as master on LPG ships. I am pursuing LLB at the moment in India and plan to do LLM from UK mostlikely from Swansea or Southompton.
1. I will seek your advice for what will be the options for me after doing my LLM.
2. Is it possible to get some job experience after LLM in UK.
3. Which one will be better for me either LLM in Maritime law or LLM in maritime & commercial law.
4. Pls give me any other important advice from your experience as It is very important career change over for me.

thanks in advance.
BRDS
Abhi
Hallo flori,

I am basically a seafarer with around 14 years of experience. I have last sailed as master on LPG ships. I am pursuing LLB at the moment in India and plan to do LLM from UK mostlikely from Swansea or Southompton.
1. I will seek your advice for what will be the options for me after doing my LLM.
2. Is it possible to get some job experience after LLM in UK.
3. Which one will be better for me either LLM in Maritime law or LLM in maritime & commercial law.
4. Pls give me any other important advice from your experience as It is very important career change over for me.

thanks in advance.
BRDS
Abhi
flori
Hello Abhi,

Hallo flori,

I am basically a seafarer with around 14 years of experience. I have last sailed as master on LPG ships. I am pursuing LLB at the moment in India and plan to do LLM from UK mostlikely from Swansea or Southompton.


Before going into details I frankly admit that I am not overly familiar with the career prospects for someone with a background in seafaring. Consequently, all my answers amount to a more or _less_ educated guess:


1. I will seek your advice for what will be the options for me after doing my LLM.


Realistic options would probably include:
- logistics/adminstrative/claims handling dept. of a shipping company
- Marine insurance industry
- maybe one of the classification societies

Not so realistic: Position as a _legal_ counsel_ in the _legal_ department of a shipping company



2. Is it possible to get some job experience after LLM in UK.


Yes - especially if you pull the right strings. Choose your programme wisely, impress the lecturers with industry ties, allude to the fact that you might be interested in getting some experience over the summer period (taught classes will be over by then, you "only" have to write the dissertation)


3. Which one will be better for me either LLM in Maritime law or LLM in maritime & commercial law.


The title of the programme does not matter at all. Still, you have to choose your modules wisely - try to avoid non-sense "LLM Maritime & Commercial Law"-combinations like three core maritime law modules + E-Commerce (just an example)


4. Pls give me any other important advice from your experience as It is very important career change over for me.


Please take the LLM brochures/leaflets with a grain of salt. Whilst I perfectly understand the reasons why the brochures are as they are (In the end, lecturers want to put food on the family table as well), they amount to no more than (or no less than) advertisements of the legal education industry.

Bye
flori
Hello Abhi,

<blockquote>Hallo flori,

I am basically a seafarer with around 14 years of experience. I have last sailed as master on LPG ships. I am pursuing LLB at the moment in India and plan to do LLM from UK mostlikely from Swansea or Southompton.
</blockquote>

Before going into details I frankly admit that I am not overly familiar with the career prospects for someone with a background in seafaring. Consequently, all my answers amount to a more or _less_ educated guess:

<blockquote>
1. I will seek your advice for what will be the options for me after doing my LLM.
</blockquote>

Realistic options would probably include:
- logistics/adminstrative/claims handling dept. of a shipping company
- Marine insurance industry
- maybe one of the classification societies

Not so realistic: Position as a _legal_ counsel_ in the _legal_ department of a shipping company


<blockquote>
2. Is it possible to get some job experience after LLM in UK.</blockquote>

Yes - especially if you pull the right strings. Choose your programme wisely, impress the lecturers with industry ties, allude to the fact that you might be interested in getting some experience over the summer period (taught classes will be over by then, you "only" have to write the dissertation)

<blockquote>
3. Which one will be better for me either LLM in Maritime law or LLM in maritime & commercial law.
</blockquote>

The title of the programme does not matter at all. Still, you have to choose your modules wisely - try to avoid non-sense "LLM Maritime & Commercial Law"-combinations like three core maritime law modules + E-Commerce (just an example)

<blockquote>
4. Pls give me any other important advice from your experience as It is very important career change over for me.
</blockquote>

Please take the LLM brochures/leaflets with a grain of salt. Whilst I perfectly understand the reasons why the brochures are as they are (In the end, lecturers want to put food on the family table as well), they amount to no more than (or no less than) advertisements of the legal education industry.

Bye
flori
Y.K Thomas
Flori(s) will never change. He keeps on discouraging potential students from studying in the UK. The master of anti-foreign law students in the UK. He is a total disgrace to this website. He has never said anything good about the UK law schools and I wonder why all along he has been not banned from using this website.I respectfully ask the authorities of this educative website to trace Flori(s) notorious comments and ban him NOW from using this forum.His cynical comments are unhelpful and I can anticipate that this will create tension no sooner than later. Kick him out! He is an enemy of foreigners' progress in the UK.He is abusing laws and must be dealt with accordingly. His views/comments on this forum do not qualify for "Free Speech" and he needs to be punished for that. I hope people will begin to agree with me now when i referred to flori(s) sometimes back as a staunch member of BNP. What a disgrace!
Flori(s) will never change. He keeps on discouraging potential students from studying in the UK. The master of anti-foreign law students in the UK. He is a total disgrace to this website. He has never said anything good about the UK law schools and I wonder why all along he has been not banned from using this website.I respectfully ask the authorities of this educative website to trace Flori(s) notorious comments and ban him NOW from using this forum.His cynical comments are unhelpful and I can anticipate that this will create tension no sooner than later. Kick him out! He is an enemy of foreigners' progress in the UK.He is abusing laws and must be dealt with accordingly. His views/comments on this forum do not qualify for "Free Speech" and he needs to be punished for that. I hope people will begin to agree with me now when i referred to flori(s) sometimes back as a staunch member of BNP. What a disgrace!
Heinz
Why are you always insulting flori? He is giving good advice and is only trying to help maritime lawyers.

Btw flori is NOT floris. As a lawyer you should be more cautious when judging on someone else.

Also, please face the truth that foreign lawyers struggle to find jobs in the UK. Don't mislead other users about this.
Why are you always insulting flori? He is giving good advice and is only trying to help maritime lawyers.

Btw flori is NOT floris. As a lawyer you should be more cautious when judging on someone else.

Also, please face the truth that foreign lawyers struggle to find jobs in the UK. Don't mislead other users about this.
Y.K Thomas
There we go again. Birds of the same feathers.....Why foreign lawyers strugle to find jobs in UK but can find jobs in other continents? Is because of your perception about anything foreign.
The world is changing and learn to live with your fellow human beings irrespective of where they come from. This is an educative forum for reasonable people and people who ferment BNP and EDL views must be kicked out. Visit the other continents on this site and you will never see the like of "Flori coomments". Why only on UK page? Answer me!
There we go again. Birds of the same feathers.....Why foreign lawyers strugle to find jobs in UK but can find jobs in other continents? Is because of your perception about anything foreign.
The world is changing and learn to live with your fellow human beings irrespective of where they come from. This is an educative forum for reasonable people and people who ferment BNP and EDL views must be kicked out. Visit the other continents on this site and you will never see the like of "Flori coomments". Why only on UK page? Answer me!
Heinz
I'm not from the UK and can't hire you. Being a foreigner myself, I can only state the fact that the job market in the UK is bad for all lawyers, no matter whether they are from the UK or foreign educated. The same is true for the rest of Europe and even the US, due to the financial crisis.

Re flori vs floris, just look here and you will see that these are two different persons:

http://www.llm-guide.com/about/flori
http://www.llm-guide.com/about/floris

Let's not insult each other but discuss topics relevant for llm applicants.
I'm not from the UK and can't hire you. Being a foreigner myself, I can only state the fact that the job market in the UK is bad for all lawyers, no matter whether they are from the UK or foreign educated. The same is true for the rest of Europe and even the US, due to the financial crisis.

Re flori vs floris, just look here and you will see that these are two different persons:

http://www.llm-guide.com/about/flori
http://www.llm-guide.com/about/floris

Let's not insult each other but discuss topics relevant for llm applicants.
Y.K Thomas
You can't hire me anyway. I am fully engaged in a reputable firm with nice people who have no problem of mingling with foreigners. It's a multicultural environment and everyone excels .Back to your arguments in favour of Flori's prejudicial comments about foreign lawyers, it will be very helpful if you can be objective and argue as a lawyer. Don't defend indefensible please. Every sector is suffering and it is not only the legal profession. Medical doctors, nurses,social services workers, engineers etc are all struggling to find jobs after graduation. Yet people are being encouraged to add value to themselves. I have never heard any American citizen telling foreign lawyers not to take New York Bar . If it were in the UK, people like you and Flori will flood this forum with"don't do it., no job for you campaign. Allow people to enter the competitive market and stop those rants. Lawyers engage their brains before they talk please. Should the government close down all Law Schools/Universities because there are no jobs?
You can't hire me anyway. I am fully engaged in a reputable firm with nice people who have no problem of mingling with foreigners. It's a multicultural environment and everyone excels .Back to your arguments in favour of Flori's prejudicial comments about foreign lawyers, it will be very helpful if you can be objective and argue as a lawyer. Don't defend indefensible please. Every sector is suffering and it is not only the legal profession. Medical doctors, nurses,social services workers, engineers etc are all struggling to find jobs after graduation. Yet people are being encouraged to add value to themselves. I have never heard any American citizen telling foreign lawyers not to take New York Bar . If it were in the UK, people like you and Flori will flood this forum with"don't do it., no job for you campaign. Allow people to enter the competitive market and stop those rants. Lawyers engage their brains before they talk please. Should the government close down all Law Schools/Universities because there are no jobs?
Wheretogo_
If you look at Flori's comments they always discourage not the contrary hence the suspicion...People should just study what they want and least it will give them more confidence...
If you look at Flori's comments they always discourage not the contrary hence the suspicion...People should just study what they want and least it will give them more confidence...
Y.K Thomas
Any reasonable person will absolutely toe on your line of argument. Flori is an evil and disgrace on LLM UK.IRL blog. He thinks he can sit behind his screen and write all the nasty things about foreigners. He will be fished out one day to face justice. My honest advice to the regular users of this website is that don't consider Flori's advice as objective or constructive. Flori's advice and comments are destructive aimed at preventing you from pursuing your legal career in the UK and nothing else.We are living in a competetive world,have the fighting spirit and pray. surely, your prayers will be answered. You listen to Flori at your own peril.
Any reasonable person will absolutely toe on your line of argument. Flori is an evil and disgrace on LLM UK.IRL blog. He thinks he can sit behind his screen and write all the nasty things about foreigners. He will be fished out one day to face justice. My honest advice to the regular users of this website is that don't consider Flori's advice as objective or constructive. Flori's advice and comments are destructive aimed at preventing you from pursuing your legal career in the UK and nothing else.We are living in a competetive world,have the fighting spirit and pray. surely, your prayers will be answered. You listen to Flori at your own peril.
RogerD
I am new to this board, but I really think the name-calling should stop now. Please.
I am new to this board, but I really think the name-calling should stop now. Please.
Y.K Thomas
Flori must be condemned and should not be allowed to continue his hatred against foreigners.If you could trace his previous comments dated 2/3 years ago, you will understand the situation. This is a popular website and people like Flori and other far rights should not be entertained. It should be free of bigotry.
Flori must be condemned and should not be allowed to continue his hatred against foreigners.If you could trace his previous comments dated 2/3 years ago, you will understand the situation. This is a popular website and people like Flori and other far rights should not be entertained. It should be free of bigotry.
We have closed this thread. Please refrain from personal attacks on individual users on this discussion board forum.
We have closed this thread. Please refrain from personal attacks on individual users on this discussion board forum.

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