it's decision time..


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beicon

Hi. Cant really help you out on this one. At least I can say that I know some people whove sat the NY bar exam in the past after the LLM and theyve all been through at least six months to one year after the LLM of really hard work, studying their arses off to finally pass the exam. In my humble opinion, regardless of your choice, youve got to be prepared for some very hard working times ahead of you.

Hi. Can’t really help you out on this one…. At least I can say that I know some people who’ve sat the NY bar exam in the past after the LLM and they’ve all been through at least six months to one year after the LLM of really hard work, studying their arses off to finally pass the exam. In my humble opinion, regardless of your choice, you’ve got to be prepared for some very hard working times ahead of you.
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silver

I just sat for the NY Bar earlier this week, and although the exam is no joke, it is possible to pass with 2 months of studying if you take a prep course. The most reputable ones, I believe, are BarBri and Kaplan. I took BarBri, and it was 2 months of absolute hell, but it did as good a job of preparing me as any course could in 2 months. Even if it turns out that I failed the exam, keep in mind that many foreigners who do an LLM in the US do pass the NY Bar on the first attempt after taking a 2-month prep course. The passing rate for the NY Bar is about 75-80% overall, while the passing rate of foreign students alone is around 45-55%. These statistics are available on the New York State Board of Law Examiners website:

http://www.nybarexam.org/Press/Annual%20Pass%20Rates_2004-2009.pdf

Meanwhile, I understand that the LPC year + 2 year training contract is a much easier process to go through. I know someone who did an LLM at KCL and did the LPC at the same time, while also participating in a bunch of extracurricular moots! I think the LPC plus the two years of training contract is a very thorough means to be trained as a a lawyer over a manageable period of time, while the NY Bar is meant to train you in only 2 months to be able to practice unsupervised. The downside of doing the NY Bar is that there is no guarantee that you'll pass, and it is a sustained period of cramming for an uncomfortable amount of time, but it is still possible to pass it.

Really, you have to figure out what you want. If you have some time, money and energy, go to the US and do an LLM there and take the NY Bar. If you score a job in NY State after (and that's a big IF right now with the economy), you could work for 2 years and thereafter write the QLTT in England to gain admission to practice in the UK without having to do the LPC or 2-year training contract. This path is a bit of a gamble. It will test you personally and may make your LLM year + NY bar studying months a stressful and miserable time for you, given the economy and the money that you invest without any guarantee of passing the NY Bar or gaining employment right away. If you're a born risk taker, however, this may be a good option for you. It will test your strength of resolve! Having just completed my Canadian JD and taken the NY Bar, and now undertaking an LLM in London beginning September, I really don't know if I would have gone through this process again if given the option! Sinking yourself into debt and spending the time and energy the NY Bar demands without any security of guaranteed employment is not a particularly happy place to be. That said, people are driven to do what they are driven to do!

So, the choice you must make is a very personal one. I wish you the best of luck because, from personal experience, it is one of the hardest decisions I've had to make. The riskier path isn't for everyone, and indeed, during these economic times it could also be called the stupider path! As I said before, though, people are driven to do what they are driven to do, and you have to decide for yourself what kind of investment you're willing to make and how comfortable you are with the idea of gambling where there's no guarantee of immediate return. My very best wishes to you.

I just sat for the NY Bar earlier this week, and although the exam is no joke, it is possible to pass with 2 months of studying if you take a prep course. The most reputable ones, I believe, are BarBri and Kaplan. I took BarBri, and it was 2 months of absolute hell, but it did as good a job of preparing me as any course could in 2 months. Even if it turns out that I failed the exam, keep in mind that many foreigners who do an LLM in the US do pass the NY Bar on the first attempt after taking a 2-month prep course. The passing rate for the NY Bar is about 75-80% overall, while the passing rate of foreign students alone is around 45-55%. These statistics are available on the New York State Board of Law Examiners website:

http://www.nybarexam.org/Press/Annual%20Pass%20Rates_2004-2009.pdf

Meanwhile, I understand that the LPC year + 2 year training contract is a much easier process to go through. I know someone who did an LLM at KCL and did the LPC at the same time, while also participating in a bunch of extracurricular moots! I think the LPC plus the two years of training contract is a very thorough means to be trained as a a lawyer over a manageable period of time, while the NY Bar is meant to train you in only 2 months to be able to practice unsupervised. The downside of doing the NY Bar is that there is no guarantee that you'll pass, and it is a sustained period of cramming for an uncomfortable amount of time, but it is still possible to pass it.

Really, you have to figure out what you want. If you have some time, money and energy, go to the US and do an LLM there and take the NY Bar. If you score a job in NY State after (and that's a big IF right now with the economy), you could work for 2 years and thereafter write the QLTT in England to gain admission to practice in the UK without having to do the LPC or 2-year training contract. This path is a bit of a gamble. It will test you personally and may make your LLM year + NY bar studying months a stressful and miserable time for you, given the economy and the money that you invest without any guarantee of passing the NY Bar or gaining employment right away. If you're a born risk taker, however, this may be a good option for you. It will test your strength of resolve! Having just completed my Canadian JD and taken the NY Bar, and now undertaking an LLM in London beginning September, I really don't know if I would have gone through this process again if given the option! Sinking yourself into debt and spending the time and energy the NY Bar demands without any security of guaranteed employment is not a particularly happy place to be. That said, people are driven to do what they are driven to do!

So, the choice you must make is a very personal one. I wish you the best of luck because, from personal experience, it is one of the hardest decisions I've had to make. The riskier path isn't for everyone, and indeed, during these economic times it could also be called the stupider path! As I said before, though, people are driven to do what they are driven to do, and you have to decide for yourself what kind of investment you're willing to make and how comfortable you are with the idea of gambling where there's no guarantee of immediate return. My very best wishes to you.
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amt233

Do you have an initial law degree or are you qualified in another jurisdiction? I believe it would be exceedingly difficult to find a position in the US with only an LLM and a NY bar admission, unless you have something very special to offer. Also if you don't have an underlying law degree or a foreign license, I am not sure that an LLM would qualify you to take the NY bar.

Also, re: silver's post, the QLTT will be supplanted in September by the QLTS. I have had a lot of difficulty finding specifics about the new scheme. But it will definitely abrogate the QLTT's 2 year experience requirement. Hopefully more detailed info will be available in the coming months.

I don't have very close personal knowledge of different GDL/LPC providers. From what little I know, where you undertake you GDL or LPC doesn't make a huge difference to recruiters. Having said that, I have heard that CoL, BPP and City have the best facilities and strongest links with city firms (and are accordingly more expensive than other providers). I am sure others on this board can offer much better insight regarding that part of your query.

Like the previous posters, I'd probably recommend the GDL. Even it seems like it will take that much longer to get where you want to be, it is by far the more straightforward course (especially if your goal is to work in the UK). The GDL is a professional credential and it seems your aspirations are professional. An LLM is primarily an academic degree.

Good luck with your decision!

Do you have an initial law degree or are you qualified in another jurisdiction? I believe it would be exceedingly difficult to find a position in the US with only an LLM and a NY bar admission, unless you have something very special to offer. Also if you don't have an underlying law degree or a foreign license, I am not sure that an LLM would qualify you to take the NY bar.

Also, re: silver's post, the QLTT will be supplanted in September by the QLTS. I have had a lot of difficulty finding specifics about the new scheme. But it will definitely abrogate the QLTT's 2 year experience requirement. Hopefully more detailed info will be available in the coming months.

I don't have very close personal knowledge of different GDL/LPC providers. From what little I know, where you undertake you GDL or LPC doesn't make a huge difference to recruiters. Having said that, I have heard that CoL, BPP and City have the best facilities and strongest links with city firms (and are accordingly more expensive than other providers). I am sure others on this board can offer much better insight regarding that part of your query.

Like the previous posters, I'd probably recommend the GDL. Even it seems like it will take that much longer to get where you want to be, it is by far the more straightforward course (especially if your goal is to work in the UK). The GDL is a professional credential and it seems your aspirations are professional. An LLM is primarily an academic degree.

Good luck with your decision!
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