Hi all, I thought I should seek some advice. I am an applicant and I've got an offer for the Oxford MLF and the Cambridge MCL. I hope to become an academic in banking and finance law matters, any thoughts on which course I should take?

I should add, as Oxford just provided their conditional offer, I don't know what college I'll be admitted to. Cambridge has offered me a nice college.

[Edited by maybeitsme on Mar 14, 2021]

First of all, congratulations! My choice would definitely be the MLF. It is more robust and better tailored. I believe the MCL is a good fit for practitioners. On the other hand, the MLF has more course options, is taught jointly by the faculty of law and Said Business School. Thus, it becomes something more than a law masters. It is a better option considering your career plans.

[Edited by gary666 on Mar 14, 2021]

Hi all!
I have to say that I don't agree with Gary. It is true that the MLF has more course options but judging from the past years (even before last very special year) not even a fractional amount of the courses were really offered. 

Furthermore, I believe that Cambridge would be a better fit for your aspired career path. Even though Oxford and Cambridge are playing in a league of their own when it comes to reputation and the level of teaching, they slightly differ. While Oxford takes a holistic approach to decide about prospective students, meaning that they as well consider extracurricular activities and work experience as a factor, Cam follows an approach that relies more on "hard facts", meaning that academic performance is weighted more than anything else. Don´t get me wrong, Oxford has almost the same requirements but Cam is considered to be slightly more competitive when it comes to the academic requirements since you're not able to compensate it when you're not in at least the top 5 % of your peer group. 
Having discussed this topic with professors of my undergrad institution (two of my professors studied at Oxbridge) and associates of magic circle law firms and one employer of a tier 1 investment bank all of them have told me that both Oxford and Cambridge are great places and you don't do anything wrong going to one of them. But if you want to distinguish on that high level, Cambridge is maybe a bit ahead. 

For those reasons, I have decided to go to Cambridge and not to Oxford. But tbh: Being admitted to either one of those institutions is an achievement everybody should be proud of. None of the students will struggle to find a job and a place where they fit in!

Hope that was helpful! Would love to see you in Cam this fall!

Hi all!
I have to say that I don't agree with Gary. It is true that the MLF has more course options but judging from the past years (even before last very special year) not even a fractional amount of the courses were really offered. 

Furthermore, I believe that Cambridge would be a better fit for your aspired career path. Even though Oxford and Cambridge are playing in a league of their own when it comes to reputation and the level of teaching, they slightly differ. While Oxford takes a holistic approach to decide about prospective students, meaning that they as well consider extracurricular activities and work experience as a factor, Cam follows an approach that relies more on "hard facts", meaning that academic performance is weighted more than anything else. Don´t get me wrong, Oxford has almost the same requirements but Cam is considered to be slightly more competitive when it comes to the academic requirements since you're not able to compensate it when you're not in at least the top 5 % of your peer group. 
Having discussed this topic with professors of my undergrad institution (two of my professors studied at Oxbridge) and associates of magic circle law firms and one employer of a tier 1 investment bank all of them have told me that both Oxford and Cambridge are great places and you don't do anything wrong going to one of them. But if you want to distinguish on that high level, Cambridge is maybe a bit ahead. 

For those reasons, I have decided to go to Cambridge and not to Oxford. But tbh: Being admitted to either one of those institutions is an achievement everybody should be proud of. None of the students will struggle to find a job and a place where they fit in!

Hope that was helpful! Would love to see you in Cam this fall!

[Edited by maybeitsme on Mar 14, 2021]

In the end its a personal decision and both programs are great!

But my impression is that Cam opens maybe one or two more doors than Ox does, especially when it comes to positions in academia as Cam is a bit stronger there. 

Best regards

Hi all!
I have to say that I don't agree with Gary. It is true that the MLF has more course options but judging from the past years (even before last very special year) not even a fractional amount of the courses were really offered. 

Furthermore, I believe that Cambridge would be a better fit for your aspired career path. Even though Oxford and Cambridge are playing in a league of their own when it comes to reputation and the level of teaching, they slightly differ. While Oxford takes a holistic approach to decide about prospective students, meaning that they as well consider extracurricular activities and work experience as a factor, Cam follows an approach that relies more on "hard facts", meaning that academic performance is weighted more than anything else. Don´t get me wrong, Oxford has almost the same requirements but Cam is considered to be slightly more competitive when it comes to the academic requirements since you're not able to compensate it when you're not in at least the top 5 % of your peer group. 
Having discussed this topic with professors of my undergrad institution (two of my professors studied at Oxbridge) and associates of magic circle law firms and one employer of a tier 1 investment bank all of them have told me that both Oxford and Cambridge are great places and you don't do anything wrong going to one of them. But if you want to distinguish on that high level, Cambridge is maybe a bit ahead. 

For those reasons, I have decided to go to Cambridge and not to Oxford. But tbh: Being admitted to either one of those institutions is an achievement everybody should be proud of. None of the students will struggle to find a job and a place where they fit in!

Hope that was helpful! Would love to see you in Cam this fall!

Thanks Julia! Looking at the courses offered, I'm slightly torn. Cambridge offers for example the International Financial Law, which is lovely for getting an exposure into finance matters. What it lacks however is a course on financial regulation (i.e. institutional matters) which are important in a fintech realm. I'm seeing a lot more advisory and compliance work, which points me towards the MLF.


It's really tough to pick!

Just found that post and wanted to share my opinion with you guys.

I think Julia is right about the MCL being more prestigious. If you're competing with other graduates from Oxford/Cambridge it comes down to details. The MCL simply is the stronger/more recognized program. 

I got admitted to the MLF this year but won't take the offer since I believe that the next academic year will still be affected by corona. I didn't apply to Cambridge this year since I wasn't able to meet the deadline but will definitely do next year. So if I had the choice I would go to Cambridge. 

Cheers 

In the end its a personal decision and both programs are great!

But my impression is that Cam opens maybe one or two more doors than Ox does, especially when it comes to positions in academia as Cam is a bit stronger there. 

Best regards

Hi all!
I have to say that I don't agree with Gary. It is true that the MLF has more course options but judging from the past years (even before last very special year) not even a fractional amount of the courses were really offered. 

Furthermore, I believe that Cambridge would be a better fit for your aspired career path. Even though Oxford and Cambridge are playing in a league of their own when it comes to reputation and the level of teaching, they slightly differ. While Oxford takes a holistic approach to decide about prospective students, meaning that they as well consider extracurricular activities and work experience as a factor, Cam follows an approach that relies more on "hard facts", meaning that academic performance is weighted more than anything else. Don´t get me wrong, Oxford has almost the same requirements but Cam is considered to be slightly more competitive when it comes to the academic requirements since you're not able to compensate it when you're not in at least the top 5 % of your peer group. 
Having discussed this topic with professors of my undergrad institution (two of my professors studied at Oxbridge) and associates of magic circle law firms and one employer of a tier 1 investment bank all of them have told me that both Oxford and Cambridge are great places and you don't do anything wrong going to one of them. But if you want to distinguish on that high level, Cambridge is maybe a bit ahead. 

For those reasons, I have decided to go to Cambridge and not to Oxford. But tbh: Being admitted to either one of those institutions is an achievement everybody should be proud of. None of the students will struggle to find a job and a place where they fit in!

Hope that was helpful! Would love to see you in Cam this fall!

Thanks Julia! Looking at the courses offered, I'm slightly torn. Cambridge offers for example the International Financial Law, which is lovely for getting an exposure into finance matters. What it lacks however is a course on financial regulation (i.e. institutional matters) which are important in a fintech realm. I'm seeing a lot more advisory and compliance work, which points me towards the MLF.


It's really tough to pick!

Hi guys, maybe a slight off-topic, but what about Cam's MCL and LLM? I understand that MCL is probably better tailored for practicing corporate lawyers, but on the other hand LLM offers you to choose between the subjects even more freely. 

I am also not completely familiar with MCL's reputation in the City and similar environments, so I would appreciate any feedback on this dilemma.

Cheers!

[Edited by JoGoo14 on Mar 14, 2021]

Hi there! 

My understanding is that the MCL is a bit more (Corporate) practice orientated while the LLM gives the possibility to tailor the program to fit your specific needs. If you want to go into academia the LLM could be a bit stronger for your CV, if you want to work in a Corporate law firm in the City I believe it’s the other way around. The people I have talked to (magic circle law firm employees, investment banker, two professors) spoke very highly of the MCL. But in my opinion, both programs give you the freedom to do what you want afterwards :)

Best regards

Hi guys, maybe a slight off-topic, but what about Cam's MCL and LLM? I understand that MCL is probably better tailored for practicing corporate lawyers, but on the other hand LLM offers you to choose between the subjects even more freely. 

I am also not completely familiar with MCL's reputation in the City and similar environments, so I would appreciate any feedback on this dilemma.

Cheers!

For what it's worth, I, and a few other Australians that I know, applied to both the MLF and MCL. We all got into the MCL but only half of us got into the MLF. I don't know whether the MCL has a positive bias towards Australian applications, or whether it is a more difficult program to get into, but thought I would share.

Hey! Congrats for being admitted to either of the programs :))

My understanding is the following: Oxford is trying to create the MLF cohort of students of as much different nationalities as possible. As the course is capped at around 45 persons, there are contingents for students of each nation (e.g. max. 3 students from Australia). So in the end, those students admitted to the MLF may not be the best overall but the best of their respective country, while other strong applicants (I believe all applicants are strong) fall short due to contingent. 
This is one of the reasons, why the MCL is considered as the stronger program with the better reputation, as the admission decisions are based (even more) on hard facts and (more) independent of external factors like your nationality.  

Still: Both programs are great!

Best regards

For what it's worth, I, and a few other Australians that I know, applied to both the MLF and MCL. We all got into the MCL but only half of us got into the MLF. I don't know whether the MCL has a positive bias towards Australian applications, or whether it is a more difficult program to get into, but thought I would share.

Hey all,

got admitted to both programs and am in the same position. @JuliaWh15 you seem to have done some research about this topic, could you pls DM me? Would like to share some thoughts with you. 
Also I´m really concerned about the Covid situation and I believe that I will postpone by one year. 
I was also told at my undergrad institution that the MCL is the better programme with the stronger reputation.

[Edited by Scotty19tr on Mar 16, 2021]

Hey all,

got admitted to both programs and am in the same position. @JuliaWh15 you seem to have done some research about this topic, could you pls DM me? Would like to share some thoughts with you. 
Also I´m really concerned about the Covid situation and I believe that I will postpone by one year. 
I was also told at my undergrad institution that the MCL is the better programme with the stronger reputation.

What about the employment prospects right after graduation? Is it usual for magic circle firms to hire foreign graduates of these courses? 

I just heard the shittiest news.I work for a professor who has very close contacts at Oxford. It seems that the Finance Stream will no longer be offered this year and in the following years, but that this decision will only be communicated once applicants have already had to decide whether or not to accept their place. This is said to be due to the fact that the graduates of the MLF have regularly lowered the level of the corresponding finance courses and thus damaged the experience of the MBA and Economics students. In addition, employers from the financial sector have allegedly complained to the former course director, John Armour, that the graduates hardly have any quantitative skills and are thus unsuitable for the relevant work. That's why Oxford wants to scrap the Finance Stream altogether and orient itself towards the Cambridge MCL concept. I think this also fits in with the news from various places that parts of the BCL and the MLF are to be held online in the next academic year in any case, and that this decision is also not being communicated for the time being. If you look for relevant information on the website or ask, you only get the information that it is still too early to say anything about the situation in September. On the course page of the MLF (that of the university, not that of the faculty) in the category "About" ... Finance Stream there is a sentence at the very end of the page, which basically gives away the information, but also says that there is no exact information yet. 
I am one of the candidates who have an offer for the MLF, but was rejected for the MJur after a long wait, and am therefore still angry with the university anyway. The fact that such decisions are not communicated openly really annoys me. I am extremely disappointed with the university and the whole process. 
I had actually planned to gain the opportunity to work in the financial sector with the MLF. Now that this is not possible and I am massively annoyed by the whole organisation of Oxford University, I will do the Cambridge MCL. Without the finance stream, the only differences are that the MCL has a better reputation, is better organised and offers better employment opportunities. I'm so annoyed by the University of Oxford, I can't even put it into words.
I hope this information helps you. I was so incredibly upset and thought it would be unfair to withhold this information from you. 

[Edited by MM2021 on Mar 28, 2021]

Wow, that's really shitty news. But it fits into the picture. I'll write an email to the course administration to see if there is more detailed information on this and maybe something is already being announced.

Edit: I emailed the Course Administration. I'll post the answer here as soon as I get it.

I just heard the shittiest news.I work for a professor who has very close contacts at Oxford. It seems that the Finance Stream will no longer be offered this year and in the following years, but that this decision will only be communicated once applicants have already had to decide whether or not to accept their place. This is said to be due to the fact that the graduates of the MLF have regularly lowered the level of the corresponding finance courses and thus damaged the experience of the MBA and Economics students. In addition, employers from the financial sector have allegedly complained to the former course director, John Armour, that the graduates hardly have any quantitative skills and are thus unsuitable for the relevant work. That's why Oxford wants to scrap the Finance Stream altogether and orient itself towards the Cambridge MCL concept. I think this also fits in with the news from various places that parts of the BCL and the MLF are to be held online in the next academic year in any case, and that this decision is also not being communicated for the time being. If you look for relevant information on the website or ask, you only get the information that it is still too early to say anything about the situation in September. On the course page of the MLF (that of the university, not that of the faculty) in the category "About" ... Finance Stream there is a sentence at the very end of the page, which basically gives away the information, but also says that there is no exact information yet. 
I am one of the candidates who have an offer for the MLF, but was rejected for the MJur after a long wait, and am therefore still angry with the university anyway. The fact that such decisions are not communicated openly really annoys me. I am extremely disappointed with the university and the whole process. 
I had actually planned to gain the opportunity to work in the financial sector with the MLF. Now that this is not possible and I am massively annoyed by the whole organisation of Oxford University, I will do the Cambridge MCL. Without the finance stream, the only differences are that the MCL has a better reputation, is better organised and offers better employment opportunities. I'm so annoyed by the University of Oxford, I can't even put it into words.
I hope this information helps you. I was so incredibly upset and thought it would be unfair to withhold this information from you. 

[Edited by Scotty19tr on Mar 28, 2021]

I also wrote an email to the Course Administration. Tomorrow we might know more. 

I'm glad I didn't turn down my MCL offer.

[Edited by MM2021 on Mar 29, 2021]

"Dear …

Thank you for your email.

In line with the course description students studying the MLF can choose either to take the law or finance stream. Currently, MLF students can select the Finance Stream. It is anticipated that the Finance Stream will be available in future years, subject to notice.
The University will seek to deliver this course in accordance with the description set out in this course page. However, there may be situations in which it is desirable or necessary for the University to make changes in course provision, either before or after registration.

The course structure and elective options are subject to constant review to maintain the world-class standard of teaching at Oxford University. The availability of various elective options depends on many factors, such as the availability of capacity in relevant elective courses and the availability of teaching staff. Furthermore, the University always seeks to offer students the best course package to ideally prepare them for the positions that follow after graduation, so that they can meet the requirement profile of potential employers.

I'm afraid that we can provide no additional information on the availability of elective options. Maintaining various elective courses is a dynamic process that is subject to constant change and re-evaluation. It would therefore be inappropriate to predict a conclusive answer to this question at this stage.

Apologies that we are unable to provide a more helpful response.

With best wishes"

[Edited by Scotty19tr on Mar 29, 2021]

Sounds like a confirmation to me.

"Dear …

Thank you for your email.

In line with the course description students studying the MLF can choose either to take the law or finance stream. Currently, MLF students can select the Finance Stream. It is anticipated that the Finance Stream will be available in future years, subject to notice.
The University will seek to deliver this course in accordance with the description set out in this course page. However, there may be situations in which it is desirable or necessary for the University to make changes in course provision, either before or after registration.

The course structure and elective options are subject to constant review to maintain the world-class standard of teaching at Oxford University. The availability of various elective options depends on many factors, such as the availability of capacity in relevant elective courses and the availability of teaching staff. Furthermore, the University always seeks to offer students the best course package to ideally prepare them for the positions that follow after graduation, so that they can meet the requirement profile of potential employers.

I'm afraid that we can provide no additional information on the availability of elective options. Maintaining various elective courses is a dynamic process that is subject to constant change and re-evaluation. It would therefore be inappropriate to predict a conclusive answer to this question at this stage.

Apologies that we are unable to provide a more helpful response.

With best wishes"

[Edited by Scotty19tr on Mar 29, 2021]

I just received the same reply...

"Dear …

Thank you for your email.
In line with the course description students studying the MLF can choose either to take the law or finance stream. Currently, MLF students can select the Finance Stream. It is anticipated that the Finance Stream will be available in future years, subject to notice.

The University will seek to deliver this course in accordance with the description set out in this course page. However, there may be situations in which it is desirable or necessary for the University to make changes in course provision, either before or after registration.

The course structure and elective options are subject to constant review to maintain the world-class standard of teaching at Oxford University. The availability of various elective options depends on many factors, such as the availability of capacity in relevant elective courses and the availability of teaching staff. Furthermore, the University always seeks to offer students the best course package to ideally prepare them for the positions that follow after graduation, so that they can meet the requirement profile of potential employers.

I'm afraid that we can provide no additional information on the availability of elective options. Maintaining various elective courses is a dynamic process that is subject to constant change and re-evaluation. It would therefore be inappropriate to predict a conclusive answer to this question at this stage.

Apologies that we are unable to provide a more helpful response.

With best wishes"

I just received the answer and I'm so fed up, its a coded confirmation.

Edit: Okay sorry, I was too slow. 
Definitely confirming my MCL offer now.

"Dear {...}



Thank you for your email.

In line with the course description students studying the MLF can choose either to take the law or finance stream. Currently, MLF students can select the Finance Stream. It is anticipated that the Finance Stream will be available in future years, subject to notice.



The University will seek to deliver this course in accordance with the description set out in this course page. However, there may be situations in which it is desirable or necessary for the University to make changes in course provision, either before or after registration.



The course structure and elective options are subject to constant review to maintain the world-class standard of teaching at Oxford University. The availability of various elective options depends on many factors, such as the availability of capacity in relevant elective courses and the availability of teaching staff. Furthermore, the University always seeks to offer students the best course package to ideally prepare them for the positions that follow after graduation, so that they can meet the requirement profile of potential employers.



I'm afraid that we can provide no additional information on the availability of elective options. Maintaining various elective courses is a dynamic process that is subject to constant change and re-evaluation. It would therefore be inappropriate to predict a conclusive answer to this question at this stage.



Apologies that we are unable to provide a more helpful response.



With best wishes"

[Edited by MM2021 on Mar 29, 2021]