where did you do the llm, flygirl? and have you enrolled in a phd and, if so, where?

Thanks E's D and F for the replies. The reason why, I gather, most people downunder push North America over UK is due to the method of teaching. In NA, I understand, there's a lot more in your face, questioning, policy driven analysis going on, whereas in Europe (speaking generally) and Aus/NZ, there's more of a traditional black-letter law, lecture-centered approach adopted. Could be generalisations or overstated, I know, but this is what I gather from lecturers I've asked (most of whom, incidently, studied in the US). They all agreed NA universities provide a more dynamic and vibrant atmosphere for the study of law. For other disciplines, obviously, it might be different.

And F, I was interested to hear what you said re the time/encouragement given to lowly LLM students from busy/preoccupied professors. I'm a bit worried about that myself, and that is one of the reasons UoT does seem so attractive. Anyway, where I go will largely be dictated by funding I guess. The admission side of things doesn't appear to be a problem.

I went to Columbia but have applied to Cambridge and Oxford for my PhD/DPhil. I was thinking about Toronto but my partner can't work in Canada.
That is true to a certain extent regarding the straight lecture v socratic method style of teaching. However, my understanding is that somewhere like Oxford is very interactive via its tutorial system. And if the professors are approachable you can have many challenging conversations after class. At Columbia whether you got exposed to the socratic method largely depended on the professor and usually it was the JD students not the LLM who got exposed to it. In any event, I didn't find it particularly rewarding. The American system of teaching is extremely case law orientated (as opposed to first-principles based) so the questions would be things like "What were the facts of the case" and "What is holding". It made you do your reading for sure but didn't exactly challenge me. As for the small seminar groups, the discussion was pretty much in the same format as seminars from Commonwealth countries. However, as I already had my undergrad law degree and was a bit older (having worked for two years post LLB) I didn't find the discussion particularly challenging since many of the students knew much less about the law than me and just talked on and on about nothing. That being said, the highly theoretical classes with people like Waldron, Raz, Greenwalt, Franke, Sanger etc and anyone who is theoretically bent are EXTREMELY challenging and I learnt a huge amount.
As for the policy-driven analysis, you are correct. American schools are much less black-letter in their thinking. I quite like that but soon tired of it by the end. I began to wonder where the law was and it seemed to be that it created an open forum where any monkey could say anything they liked about the law even if it completely lacked any sort of rigour. On the other hand, it does allow for much more creativity in the law and openness towards feminist and critical legal theory which I think has a lot to offer jurisprudential debates.
Hope that helps!

I agree with everything said above. I went to a canadian school for my LLb which was taught entirely pursuant to the socratic method using a case based, rather than first principles, appraoch. I too found that while it was dynamic and flexible, this format did often leave one confused as to where exactly the law was and it certainly encouraged a great deal of time wasting as many, shall we say less than rigorous minds, took it upon themseves to offer enumerable, senseless opinions and thereby waste much of everyone else's time. That said, I'm not sure these patterns of teaching will translate into your PHD, flygirl. Whether its Oxbridge or uoft, I think in that program you will get lots of one on one exposure to profs and will spend the balance of your time conducting independent research. In pursuit of the latter, it will be largely up to you which apprach (case based or principled) you follow.

That is true - the teaching methods of course won't translate into my PhD and were not something I was considering when deciding which PhD school to apply to. I was answering a prior person's question about the difference in teaching methods in the LLM.
I do think, however, that faculty are more available and supportive at lesser known schools.

Just to add that in Cambridge there is also small group teaching on the LLM, but not formal like it is in Oxford. You will have a seminar about every two weeks with the lecturer based on problem questions they have set. It varies from subject to subject, but in most of the commercial ones this is the case. Unlike Oxford, attendance is not compulsory and they are organised by the lecturers to develop what was taught in lectures and make sure you can apply it to problem questions. In Restitution, Banking, Competition and International Sales the exam format is mostly problem questions, much to my dismay! They also mix topics which means you have to know just about everything. I got quite depressed about it recently lol. Then to cheer myself up decided it would be better for me in the long run. Now all I need are some caffeine pills, and a drip pumping coke through my veins so I won't have to sleep.

Hello all, equity's darling in particular,
Just to let you know I may well be joining you October. Got a conditional offer from Cambridge today.
Hugh

wow, Whats the condition?

Don't know yet, to follow in the post apparently. But I imagine it'll be a first on the GDL (ie CPE) course i'm on. Hopefully nothing more severe.
Good luck everyone else - as equity's darling got his email a few days ago, clearly offers come out in a trickle.

cograts on the offer, hughF. I dont kinow my conditions either. I assume in my case it must refer to financial conditions. I have already graduated the llb and am currently working, so it couldnt relate to anything academic.
where are you from, hughF?
And when you say you might go to Cambnridge, does that mean you have been given other offers, and if so, from where?

No other offers yet - though I'm kind of hanging on for Oxford, as i did my undergrad there, but it sounds like it's a little tougher. I'm from near Cambridge originally in fact. Did you get a college notification yet? And which did you apply to? I applied to Trinity Hall and Queens

Beleieve it or not, I can't remember which colleges I applied to. I recall being preplexed by the whole college concept and after looking into a number of them I finally just listed the names of a few famous ones. Maybe Corpus Christie and Jesus? I honestly can't remember. Do you think oxford is better? Do you think it's more competative? How big is the OX BCL class?

I have heard Ox is a little more competitive, and I do get the impression it's slightly more well regarded in england, at least in slightly more traditional circles, but I'm not sure the same could be said internationally.
Although I don't wish to stoke up the old BCL/LLM argument, and I think there's not a lot in it. The size of the year is similar I believe, 120-150 or so. I had also heard they work you like a dog at Oxford (which would tally with my undergrad experience), and less so at Cambridge, but seeing Irish guy's comment, that seems untrue - they appear to work you like a dog at both places.

Dear All:

I'm from Brazil and received a conditional offer from Cambridge on last Thursday. I am very happy 'cause of this.
I also applied to LSE and OX (MJur).
If I receive offers from LSE and/or OX, I think I will have a great problem to choose one of them. I'm inclined to accept the offer of Cambridge, but...
What LLM course do you think is better in the field of Commercial Law?

congradulations.
the contest is between oxford and cambridge, and you can't lose with either. accept cantab for now, wait to see about oxford, and forget about lse.

Tks for your answer.
I'd like to ask to those who have received an e-mail with the conditional offer from Cambridge whether or not their CamSys is updated and whether or not they've already received a formal letter. Do you have any idea when the Colleges notify - if it happens - the applicants about their approvals?
Good luck to all applicants who did not receive the offers yet.

I got a conditional offer emailed to me a few weeks ago, but my Camsys has not yet been updated and nor have I received a letter in the post.

same boat. conditonal offer via email, no update to camsys or follow up yet by post. no word yet on colleges. where else did you two apply?

LSE, Toronto (hence the questions the other week), and a few US universities that I'm still waiting on. How about you? And have you decided where you'll go?

In Cambridge, I applied to Homerton and Hughes Hall Colleges. I also applied to Oxford (M.Jur) and LSE. I think I'll decide to go to Cambridge, even if I obtain offers from Oxford and LSE. And how about you?