Looking for prognostication on my chances for an Oxford DPhil.
Top 10 American Law School
Top 20%
Editorial Board of the Law Review
Published student note
Found a professor who has agreed to supervise my research.
Another Chances Question
Posted Oct 08, 2008 01:53
Top 10 American Law School
Top 20%
Editorial Board of the Law Review
Published student note
Found a professor who has agreed to supervise my research.
Posted Oct 09, 2008 21:01
No one?
Posted Oct 11, 2008 18:57
If you've got someone who is happy to supervise why don't you apply and find out.
Posted Oct 11, 2008 19:02
I'm applying for sure. I'm just trying to figure out how nervous I have to be for the next five months.
Posted Oct 14, 2008 12:02
Perhaps if you start with very nervous, then anything else will come as a pleasant surprise. Good luck!
Posted Oct 17, 2008 00:59
In your case, the chances are quite good. Sometimes it is said, however, that Oxford and Cambridge look for the best 5% of a class.
I am not sure if this a general condition, or if it is also conditioned upon the law school you attended (which I deem much more probable and reasonable, as it surely makes a difference if you have been to a top10 law school, competing with strong students, or to a school with only a few aspiring people).
Apart from that, I recommend the trial and error approach in any case. What have you got to loose?!
Looking for prognostication on my chances for an Oxford DPhil.
Top 10 American Law School
Top 20%
Editorial Board of the Law Review
Published student note
Found a professor who has agreed to supervise my research.
I am not sure if this a general condition, or if it is also conditioned upon the law school you attended (which I deem much more probable and reasonable, as it surely makes a difference if you have been to a top10 law school, competing with strong students, or to a school with only a few aspiring people).
Apart from that, I recommend the trial and error approach in any case. What have you got to loose?!
<blockquote>Looking for prognostication on my chances for an Oxford DPhil.
Top 10 American Law School
Top 20%
Editorial Board of the Law Review
Published student note
Found a professor who has agreed to supervise my research.</blockquote>
Posted Oct 17, 2008 10:55
In case other people are reading this thread, now or in the future, I'm going to disagree with Andrew13 and say that the chances of admission with these numbers are not, actually, quite good. They are anything but.
A top 20% finish at any law school in the world would all but disqualify an applicant from admission to the BCL program, which is Oxford's common-law taught graduate program, and the typical route to a D.Phil. (I assume, of course, that by "top 20" you mean "bottom 81".)
Continuing on to a D.Phil stream from the BCL requires obtaining a first at the end of the year, which is usually (guessing) the top 20 to 30% of the BCL class. You would then do a one year research degree, the M.Phil, and if your work meets the standards set out for you, you could proceed on to the D.Phil.
Direct entry to the PRS (Probationary Research Student) route to the D.Phil requires you to convince the faculty that you are academically impressive enough (for whatever reason) that you might as well just get to work right away.
Needless to say, that's not likely to be the case when your academic record would actually preclude you from doing the BCL altogether.
I say this not to discourage you from applying, but to encourage you to apply to a few other schools as well.
A top 20% finish at any law school in the world would all but disqualify an applicant from admission to the BCL program, which is Oxford's common-law taught graduate program, and the typical route to a D.Phil. (I assume, of course, that by "top 20" you mean "bottom 81".)
Continuing on to a D.Phil stream from the BCL requires obtaining a first at the end of the year, which is usually (guessing) the top 20 to 30% of the BCL class. You would then do a one year research degree, the M.Phil, and if your work meets the standards set out for you, you could proceed on to the D.Phil.
Direct entry to the PRS (Probationary Research Student) route to the D.Phil requires you to convince the faculty that you are academically impressive enough (for whatever reason) that you might as well just get to work right away.
Needless to say, that's not likely to be the case when your academic record would actually preclude you from doing the BCL altogether.
I say this not to discourage you from applying, but to encourage you to apply to a few other schools as well.
Posted Oct 17, 2008 16:07
If I may add to Bender's observation, it may also be fruitful to leave academia for awhile in order to both gain some seasoning and develop a specialty - and, importantly from Ox's perspective, an intense interest - in a particular area (apologies if you have already done so). As a new Ox DPhil myself, one of the first things that struck me upon meeting my colleagues was how many of them had done amazing things in the - and sorry for this one - "real world" before returning to undertake the DPhil. Indeed, the only folks for whom this did not almost universally hold true were the transfer students from the BCL (although many of them also have amassed incredible real world accomplishments).
I know all this probably comes across as being somewhat negative, but undertaking an LLM at another institution (or, who knows, perhaps the BCL) and/or spending a few years outside academia may ultimately prove your best option.
Best of Luck!
I know all this probably comes across as being somewhat negative, but undertaking an LLM at another institution (or, who knows, perhaps the BCL) and/or spending a few years outside academia may ultimately prove your best option.
Best of Luck!
Posted Oct 19, 2008 21:36
For what it's worth, I do have publications on my area of study, and my supervisor is the convenor of the subject group.
Posted Oct 20, 2008 17:24
It may well be that the key here is the fact that you have a supervisor who is happy with your work - if that is indeed the case. There are a variety of responses which could fall within that description ranging from: I know who you are and I've seen your proposal and I am keen to supervise (which would carry a lot of weight in terms of admissions) through to well this is in my area, so I'll supervise you if you make it through the admissions process. If you do put in an application, I suggest applying to other institutions as well; the real work is in putting together a coherent and original proposal. You can then re-use the same proposal, though of course there will be repeat work in filling out the standard application forms.There are probably other possible supervisors in your area which could give you a fall back position; whether they are as good as the person you've contacted, of course, is another question. If you are really keen - and my view is that you need to be really keen to survive the PhD process - then you've got nothing to lose except the risk of an ego bashing.
Posted Oct 20, 2008 17:37
Thanks for the insight. From my coordination with my supervisor, I'd place him in the former category. My big problem is that Oxford and Cambridge are the only institutions that elite American law school hiring committees will view favorably, which means that only those two institutions will be worth my opportunity cost. The other problem is planning: I won't know until March at the earliest, so I have to forgo other opportunities in the meantime (such as federal clerkships).
Posted Oct 20, 2008 19:15
Hey HRoark,
Again, I would really recommend also applying to a number of top-tier LLM programs and the BCL. If all goes really well at that level, you'll find yourself at Oxbridge undertaking a doctorate in no time. Indeed, I would also say that is one of the more common paths taken by successful DPhil applicants. In contrast, I have yet to meet anyone who came straight from a US JD (not to say they don't exist).
You've got nothing to lose really by having this as a back-up plan and, at least in my experience, you may find it has several advantages in terms of your DPhil application, the opportunity to explore potential thesis topics, publish, etc.
Cheers,
Paddy
Again, I would really recommend also applying to a number of top-tier LLM programs and the BCL. If all goes really well at that level, you'll find yourself at Oxbridge undertaking a doctorate in no time. Indeed, I would also say that is one of the more common paths taken by successful DPhil applicants. In contrast, I have yet to meet anyone who came straight from a US JD (not to say they don't exist).
You've got nothing to lose really by having this as a back-up plan and, at least in my experience, you may find it has several advantages in terms of your DPhil application, the opportunity to explore potential thesis topics, publish, etc.
Cheers,
Paddy
Posted Oct 21, 2008 16:22
Thanks for the advice Paddy!
Related Law Schools
Hot Discussions
-
Cambridge LL.M. Applicants 2024-2025
Oct 30, 2024 142,323 544 -
NUS LLM 2024-25 Cohort
Oct 25, 2024 5,858 34 -
MIDS - 2024-25
Nov 15 12:52 AM 1,837 16 -
Harvard LLM 2025-2026
Nov 20 09:34 PM 1,689 7 -
Indian Tribes as US Jurisdictions of law attorney admission?
Nov 08, 2024 765 6 -
Warwick or Birmingham
Nov 10, 2024 1,163 5 -
LL.M. Scholarship Rates?
Nov 09, 2024 2,503 5 -
LLM in ADR
Oct 23, 2024 390 4