The bigger picture is not whether he can get in, but how well will he do once admitted. Since English is the language of the realm at US law schools, it is imperative that the you understand written and spoken English quite well. In addition you will be writing MANY papers. To attempt this without very good English skills is a total waste of your time and money.
I honestly don't think schools are strict enough in this area. You will spend far more time understanding the material you are given if you don't understand English incredibly well. For example in one class alone, I have 200 pages of reading to do EACH WEEK. This isn't simple newspaper reading, it is complex concepts and very specific terminology, jargon and acronyms I need to learn and understand. By "understand" I mean to understand it well enough that I can apply all the new information I just read about, combined with a class lecture, and then to write a 10 page paper on it or a 2 page essay response on a test.
Keep in mind that you will be competing for grades with a lot of other foreign students that come from countries where English is either a first on common 2nd language. In my country it was not. I did speak 3 other languages before learning English but none very similar to English; different alphabet and grammar.
Nothing prepared me for how much reading I would have to do. I read on average about 200-300 pages a week. My average class text book is 600-800 pages. I am taking 4-6 classes a session. That means I'll need to read anywhere from 2400-4800 pages of information in a school term. Are you, or your brother, really prepared for this?
Honestly 100 isn't high enough at a minimum level for most top schools. It should be at least 110. They want you to succeed, not fail. I see other, very bright students, struggling because their English isn't good enough but was "good enough" to get in.
Law isn't like math or chemistry where your English can be lacking and you can still do well. Law is all about reading, writing and speaking with great fluency, and to understand the nuances of a complex legal argument. I thought I was well prepared for US LLM, I can tell you I should have prepared even more. I want to excel, not just survive. A low TOEFL score means you will likely have to work hard just to survive...
i can't agree with you any more
You're making it harder. My native language is French. I grew up in Dubai and have many friends who studied LL.M in different American universities. All of them have their native language and English as a second language.
One of them took 90/120 in TOEFL and 7.0 in IELTS and got into UPenn . He's working on his S.J.D there!
The other scored 94 93 94 92 in his TOEFLS all in a row and got 7.0 on IELTS and got into UC Berkeley last year and he's doing well !!
Another Indian guy got 100 and studied in NYU. He's an S.J.D candidate at the moment!!
Magic? No!
And I keep asking all of them about English. They answer: most of LL.M students in US law schools are international, and most of them do not speak 100% fluent English, they succeeded at the end.
And guess what? about 98% LL.M students of any scholar year pass without any problems!
Also, a friend of my brother, his native language is Arabic got into Harvard in 2011 and did well with 102 TOEFL IBT score.
Stop making it harder!!
Many of them survived and excelled and the proof is having an S.J.D acceptance !!
Isabelle
<blockquote><blockquote>The bigger picture is not whether he can get in, but how well will he do once admitted. Since English is the language of the realm at US law schools, it is imperative that the you understand written and spoken English quite well. In addition you will be writing MANY papers. To attempt this without very good English skills is a total waste of your time and money.
I honestly don't think schools are strict enough in this area. You will spend far more time understanding the material you are given if you don't understand English incredibly well. For example in one class alone, I have 200 pages of reading to do EACH WEEK. This isn't simple newspaper reading, it is complex concepts and very specific terminology, jargon and acronyms I need to learn and understand. By "understand" I mean to understand it well enough that I can apply all the new information I just read about, combined with a class lecture, and then to write a 10 page paper on it or a 2 page essay response on a test.
Keep in mind that you will be competing for grades with a lot of other foreign students that come from countries where English is either a first on common 2nd language. In my country it was not. I did speak 3 other languages before learning English but none very similar to English; different alphabet and grammar.
Nothing prepared me for how much reading I would have to do. I read on average about 200-300 pages a week. My average class text book is 600-800 pages. I am taking 4-6 classes a session. That means I'll need to read anywhere from 2400-4800 pages of information in a school term. Are you, or your brother, really prepared for this?
Honestly 100 isn't high enough at a minimum level for most top schools. It should be at least 110. They want you to succeed, not fail. I see other, very bright students, struggling because their English isn't good enough but was "good enough" to get in.
Law isn't like math or chemistry where your English can be lacking and you can still do well. Law is all about reading, writing and speaking with great fluency, and to understand the nuances of a complex legal argument. I thought I was well prepared for US LLM, I can tell you I should have prepared even more. I want to excel, not just survive. A low TOEFL score means you will likely have to work hard just to survive...</blockquote>
i can't agree with you any more</blockquote>
You're making it harder. My native language is French. I grew up in Dubai and have many friends who studied LL.M in different American universities. All of them have their native language and English as a second language.
One of them took 90/120 in TOEFL and 7.0 in IELTS and got into UPenn . He's working on his S.J.D there!
The other scored 94 93 94 92 in his TOEFLS all in a row and got 7.0 on IELTS and got into UC Berkeley last year and he's doing well !!
Another Indian guy got 100 and studied in NYU. He's an S.J.D candidate at the moment!!
Magic? No!
And I keep asking all of them about English. They answer: most of LL.M students in US law schools are international, and most of them do not speak 100% fluent English, they succeeded at the end.
And guess what? about 98% LL.M students of any scholar year pass without any problems!
Also, a friend of my brother, his native language is Arabic got into Harvard in 2011 and did well with 102 TOEFL IBT score.
Stop making it harder!!
Many of them survived and excelled and the proof is having an S.J.D acceptance !!
Isabelle
