Dear Future and Prospective LL.M. Students:
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE thoroughly research the usefulness of obtaining an LL.M. no matter which country, school or program you choose.
LL.M. programs are essentially a very low-risk cashcow for law schools. Think of starting such a program as tantamount to a school installing an ATM/cashpoint. Unfortunately, an LL.M. is not a career enhancer for most lawyers, but it does contribute to the salaries of pampered law professors who aren't bothered over whether or not you find work post-LL.M. employment. Have you noticed the significant increase in the number of LL.M. programs despite there being fewer jobs available for lawyers? Why is this? Does it make sense from a student's prospective to continue expanding the pool of LL.M. holders all the while there are fewer decent jobs available?
For many programs, it doesn't matter whether or not 90+ percent of their graduates find jobs based on the LL.M. because they can market the 10 percent (or fewer) who do as representative examples of the program's effectiveness in placing graduates in lucrative jobs.
Granted, some graduates will enhance careers simply by earning the LL.M., but KEEP IN MIND they are in a very small minority!
Finally, ask yourself who's running this Web site? Why are they running it? Whose interests does establishing and maintaining this site serve? Before you answer these questions, please note the numerous program advertisements on the right-hand side of each page in the Web site.
Now that you've had a think, PROCEED WITH CAUTION! Consider investing the tuition fees in real estate, bonds or another low-risk investment.
LLM=Lawyers Losing Money
Posted Jul 10, 2009 02:38
0
Dear Future and Prospective LL.M. Students:
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE thoroughly research the usefulness of obtaining an LL.M. no matter which country, school or program you choose.
LL.M. programs are essentially a very low-risk cashcow for law schools. Think of starting such a program as tantamount to a school installing an ATM/cashpoint. Unfortunately, an LL.M. is not a career enhancer for most lawyers, but it does contribute to the salaries of pampered law professors who aren't bothered over whether or not you find work post-LL.M. employment. Have you noticed the significant increase in the number of LL.M. programs despite there being fewer jobs available for lawyers? Why is this? Does it make sense from a student's prospective to continue expanding the pool of LL.M. holders all the while there are fewer decent jobs available?
For many programs, it doesn't matter whether or not 90+ percent of their graduates find jobs based on the LL.M. because they can market the 10 percent (or fewer) who do as representative examples of the program's effectiveness in placing graduates in lucrative jobs.
Granted, some graduates will enhance careers simply by earning the LL.M., but KEEP IN MIND they are in a very small minority!
Finally, ask yourself who's running this Web site? Why are they running it? Whose interests does establishing and maintaining this site serve? Before you answer these questions, please note the numerous program advertisements on the right-hand side of each page in the Web site.
Now that you've had a think, PROCEED WITH CAUTION! Consider investing the tuition fees in real estate, bonds or another low-risk investment.
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE thoroughly research the usefulness of obtaining an LL.M. no matter which country, school or program you choose.
LL.M. programs are essentially a very low-risk cashcow for law schools. Think of starting such a program as tantamount to a school installing an ATM/cashpoint. Unfortunately, an LL.M. is not a career enhancer for most lawyers, but it does contribute to the salaries of pampered law professors who aren't bothered over whether or not you find work post-LL.M. employment. Have you noticed the significant increase in the number of LL.M. programs despite there being fewer jobs available for lawyers? Why is this? Does it make sense from a student's prospective to continue expanding the pool of LL.M. holders all the while there are fewer decent jobs available?
For many programs, it doesn't matter whether or not 90+ percent of their graduates find jobs based on the LL.M. because they can market the 10 percent (or fewer) who do as representative examples of the program's effectiveness in placing graduates in lucrative jobs.
Granted, some graduates will enhance careers simply by earning the LL.M., but KEEP IN MIND they are in a very small minority!
Finally, ask yourself who's running this Web site? Why are they running it? Whose interests does establishing and maintaining this site serve? Before you answer these questions, please note the numerous program advertisements on the right-hand side of each page in the Web site.
Now that you've had a think, PROCEED WITH CAUTION! Consider investing the tuition fees in real estate, bonds or another low-risk investment.
Posted Jul 10, 2009 05:31
0
I respect your contrarian view, much like I respect Socrates. In many respects what you say is true. But I would encourage you to think that for many the LLM is more than an economic venture. In other words, there is more to the equation that one's job prospects. This may be an antiquated or romantic idea of education, but the fact remains that it is a view many hold.
I respect your contrarian view, much like I respect Socrates. In many respects what you say is true. But I would encourage you to think that for many the LLM is more than an economic venture. In other words, there is more to the equation that one's job prospects. This may be an antiquated or romantic idea of education, but the fact remains that it is a view many hold.
Posted Jul 10, 2009 06:48
0
I respect your contrarian view, much like I respect Socrates. In many respects what you say is true. But I would encourage you to think that for many the LLM is more than an economic venture. In other words, there is more to the equation that one's job prospects. This may be an antiquated or romantic idea of education, but the fact remains that it is a view many hold.
I fully hold your view. I fully expect the LLM to NOT enhance my career prospects in any shape or form. Why am I still doing it? Well, I can't turn down the opportunity to learn under the greatest minds in my era. That's reason enough!
<blockquote>I respect your contrarian view, much like I respect Socrates. In many respects what you say is true. But I would encourage you to think that for many the LLM is more than an economic venture. In other words, there is more to the equation that one's job prospects. This may be an antiquated or romantic idea of education, but the fact remains that it is a view many hold.</blockquote>
I fully hold your view. I fully expect the LLM to NOT enhance my career prospects in any shape or form. Why am I still doing it? Well, I can't turn down the opportunity to learn under the greatest minds in my era. That's reason enough!
I fully hold your view. I fully expect the LLM to NOT enhance my career prospects in any shape or form. Why am I still doing it? Well, I can't turn down the opportunity to learn under the greatest minds in my era. That's reason enough!
Posted Jul 10, 2009 10:58
0
This is one bizarre initial post. Well, I am not a prospective llm student. I have done the llm at UCL and to be quite honest, had I not taken the LLM, I would have never earned a place to work at my current law firm - which was always my favourite place to work in.
When the llm program is well chosen and its quality is renowned, it will certainly enhance your prospects. However, on a side note, I would like to add that there are academic-oriented and practitioner-oriented llms... the important thing is to NOT make ill-informed decisions!
This is one bizarre initial post. Well, I am not a prospective llm student. I have done the llm at UCL and to be quite honest, had I not taken the LLM, I would have never earned a place to work at my current law firm - which was always my favourite place to work in.
When the llm program is well chosen and its quality is renowned, it will certainly enhance your prospects. However, on a side note, I would like to add that there are academic-oriented and practitioner-oriented llms... the important thing is to NOT make ill-informed decisions!
When the llm program is well chosen and its quality is renowned, it will certainly enhance your prospects. However, on a side note, I would like to add that there are academic-oriented and practitioner-oriented llms... the important thing is to NOT make ill-informed decisions!
Posted Jul 10, 2009 11:12
0
Unfortunately, an LL.M. is not a career enhancer for most lawyers, but it does contribute to the salaries of pampered law professors who aren't bothered over whether or not you find work post-LL.M. employment. Have you noticed the significant increase in the number of LL.M. programs despite there being fewer jobs available for lawyers? Why is this? Does it make sense from a student's prospective to continue expanding the pool of LL.M. holders all the while there are fewer decent jobs available?
In principle, I agree with what you're saying ie., an LLM doesn't lead to a job, but does any really hold a view to the contrary? Lawyers embark on the LLM for a variety of reasons: knowledge, a foothold in a new country/work visa, gaining a top brand on their CV etc., but anyone studying an LLM on the assumption it's a passport to a job is simply naive (the exceptions being highly-specialist areas where law firms recruit specifically for that knowledge).
I strongly disagree with your above comments regarding professors - in the UK at least, the number of LLM students have no bearing on a professors' salaries. UK universities are public institutions, and academics are certainly not pampered (but over worked and under paid). An associate in a top city law firm will be earning more than a law professor in the UK. Whether a law professor is concerned about your employment prospects after the LLM is neither here nor there...as that's not their job.
Edit: I've just come across this FT article on the news section of this site:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/57375fba-aec9-11dd-b621-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1
One academic says the LLM is no magic formula for finding a job!
<blockquote>Unfortunately, an LL.M. is not a career enhancer for most lawyers, but it does contribute to the salaries of pampered law professors who aren't bothered over whether or not you find work post-LL.M. employment. Have you noticed the significant increase in the number of LL.M. programs despite there being fewer jobs available for lawyers? Why is this? Does it make sense from a student's prospective to continue expanding the pool of LL.M. holders all the while there are fewer decent jobs available?
</blockquote>
In principle, I agree with what you're saying ie., an LLM doesn't lead to a job, but does any really hold a view to the contrary? Lawyers embark on the LLM for a variety of reasons: knowledge, a foothold in a new country/work visa, gaining a top brand on their CV etc., but anyone studying an LLM on the assumption it's a passport to a job is simply naive (the exceptions being highly-specialist areas where law firms recruit specifically for that knowledge).
I strongly disagree with your above comments regarding professors - in the UK at least, the number of LLM students have no bearing on a professors' salaries. UK universities are public institutions, and academics are certainly not pampered (but over worked and under paid). An associate in a top city law firm will be earning more than a law professor in the UK. Whether a law professor is concerned about your employment prospects after the LLM is neither here nor there...as that's not their job.
Edit: I've just come across this FT article on the news section of this site:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/57375fba-aec9-11dd-b621-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1
One academic says the LLM is no magic formula for finding a job!
</blockquote>
In principle, I agree with what you're saying ie., an LLM doesn't lead to a job, but does any really hold a view to the contrary? Lawyers embark on the LLM for a variety of reasons: knowledge, a foothold in a new country/work visa, gaining a top brand on their CV etc., but anyone studying an LLM on the assumption it's a passport to a job is simply naive (the exceptions being highly-specialist areas where law firms recruit specifically for that knowledge).
I strongly disagree with your above comments regarding professors - in the UK at least, the number of LLM students have no bearing on a professors' salaries. UK universities are public institutions, and academics are certainly not pampered (but over worked and under paid). An associate in a top city law firm will be earning more than a law professor in the UK. Whether a law professor is concerned about your employment prospects after the LLM is neither here nor there...as that's not their job.
Edit: I've just come across this FT article on the news section of this site:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/57375fba-aec9-11dd-b621-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1
One academic says the LLM is no magic formula for finding a job!
Posted Jul 10, 2009 18:50
0
Reall?! Granted, UK universities are public institutions, but how do they get away with charging 10+ pounds per student in oversees tuition fees? Even if the money doesn't go directly into the professors' pockets, they're very well compensated with prime office space, travel allowances, research assistants, etc., etc.
Why would someone want to have a "top brand" on their CV other than to satisfy an acquisitive mindset? Wake up! People invest in degrees on the belief they will enhance their career prospects and thereby improve quality of life. When enough people stop believing this, graduate schools will become irrelevant. Stop pretending it's otherwise!
If the only students who enrolled in LLM programs were those who would likely receive a career "boost", there would be a precipitous drop in enrollment and many, many of the existing programs would shut shop or severely cut back on expenditure like office space on prime real estate.
Reall?! Granted, UK universities are public institutions, but how do they get away with charging 10+ pounds per student in oversees tuition fees? Even if the money doesn't go directly into the professors' pockets, they're very well compensated with prime office space, travel allowances, research assistants, etc., etc.
Why would someone want to have a "top brand" on their CV other than to satisfy an acquisitive mindset? Wake up! People invest in degrees on the belief they will enhance their career prospects and thereby improve quality of life. When enough people stop believing this, graduate schools will become irrelevant. Stop pretending it's otherwise!
If the only students who enrolled in LLM programs were those who would likely receive a career "boost", there would be a precipitous drop in enrollment and many, many of the existing programs would shut shop or severely cut back on expenditure like office space on prime real estate.
Why would someone want to have a "top brand" on their CV other than to satisfy an acquisitive mindset? Wake up! People invest in degrees on the belief they will enhance their career prospects and thereby improve quality of life. When enough people stop believing this, graduate schools will become irrelevant. Stop pretending it's otherwise!
If the only students who enrolled in LLM programs were those who would likely receive a career "boost", there would be a precipitous drop in enrollment and many, many of the existing programs would shut shop or severely cut back on expenditure like office space on prime real estate.
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