Hi there !
I really need your help for a critical review of my "CV". I understand this may be unusual but I think this is a very good forum to raise these questions.
A few years ago, I decided to enter a programme managed by my French University and the University of Kent.
According to this programme, I studied both French and English law in France for 3 years, until I was selected by the University of Kent to attend the remaining law courses and be awarded a "qualifying" LLB degree (including contract law, public law, equity & trusts, criminal law, land law and tort law. The last module, EU Law, is a credit transfer from the appropriate modules taught in French).
This degree is approved by the Law Society of England and Wales, and the Bar Council. However, most of the genuine British students would have studied other non compulsory modules, such as Business law or IP law, for example.
This experience will be "translated" by my French University as a "maitrise", which is the academic requirement to sit the French Bar exam. However, this degree will be kind of bogus really, since all the marks will be "invented" by the administrative division of the university to match the marks I had in the UK. This degree is only virtual: enough to sit the exam, but not reliable at all "in the real world".
But I preferred to take the English route, and enter the legal profession as a solicitor, especially because once I would qualify as a solicitor in the UK, after a few years of experience I would "automatically" (or at a very high likelihood) be recognised as an advocate in France without even having to sit the Bar exam, but considering instead my 4 years of French law studies (one of which being bogus as said above, but that is not a problem for this purpose).
The problem is that in order to qualify in the UK, I need to get a training contract, a challenge of its own for every English students, maybe tougher for any international applicant. A thing to know is that applications for City law firms takes place two years before the training contract begins, what was impossible for me. Because I found I had "a year to kill" (including the LPC course that I clearly do not want to finance before having my training contract in pocket).
That's why I have applied to some LLMs. I got a reccomendation for an offer from Durham, and I am still waiting for UCL and QMUL.
The problem I am facing now is that
* I cannot get an internship in France because I am not specialised enough (that's true, despite a dual-degree, I have only studied "general" topics, yet in depth), and this LLB degree will only count as an extended language test, nothing more. Quite disappointing.
* I cannot get a placement in the UK. I can only assume it may be risky, from their point of view, to "invest in me" because I have only spent one year in the UK, or because I would only have the "minimum requirement" LLB. Not to mention that they are not *exactly* recruiting at the moment. That is for me a supplementary reason to pursue a LLM.
Now, I am turning to this forum, because I know some of you, looking for a double legal qualification, may face the same type of problems. Would you consider that non-national applicants are so disadvantaged that it's not worthwhile insisting to get a placement in the UK? Have you ever encountered such situations? What do you think my value on the legal market is, what are the gaps, and maybe, how you think I may solve them?
I am not in need of an approval ; what I need is a critical review of my experience so far.
I am REALLY looking forward for your answers :)
Dual qualified lawyer UK-France.. Does that really help?
Posted May 06, 2009 23:55
I really need your help for a critical review of my "CV". I understand this may be unusual but I think this is a very good forum to raise these questions.
A few years ago, I decided to enter a programme managed by my French University and the University of Kent.
According to this programme, I studied both French and English law in France for 3 years, until I was selected by the University of Kent to attend the remaining law courses and be awarded a "qualifying" LLB degree (including contract law, public law, equity & trusts, criminal law, land law and tort law. The last module, EU Law, is a credit transfer from the appropriate modules taught in French).
This degree is approved by the Law Society of England and Wales, and the Bar Council. However, most of the genuine British students would have studied other non compulsory modules, such as Business law or IP law, for example.
This experience will be "translated" by my French University as a "maitrise", which is the academic requirement to sit the French Bar exam. However, this degree will be kind of bogus really, since all the marks will be "invented" by the administrative division of the university to match the marks I had in the UK. This degree is only virtual: enough to sit the exam, but not reliable at all "in the real world".
But I preferred to take the English route, and enter the legal profession as a solicitor, especially because once I would qualify as a solicitor in the UK, after a few years of experience I would "automatically" (or at a very high likelihood) be recognised as an advocate in France without even having to sit the Bar exam, but considering instead my 4 years of French law studies (one of which being bogus as said above, but that is not a problem for this purpose).
The problem is that in order to qualify in the UK, I need to get a training contract, a challenge of its own for every English students, maybe tougher for any international applicant. A thing to know is that applications for City law firms takes place two years before the training contract begins, what was impossible for me. Because I found I had "a year to kill" (including the LPC course that I clearly do not want to finance before having my training contract in pocket).
That's why I have applied to some LLMs. I got a reccomendation for an offer from Durham, and I am still waiting for UCL and QMUL.
The problem I am facing now is that
* I cannot get an internship in France because I am not specialised enough (that's true, despite a dual-degree, I have only studied "general" topics, yet in depth), and this LLB degree will only count as an extended language test, nothing more. Quite disappointing.
* I cannot get a placement in the UK. I can only assume it may be risky, from their point of view, to "invest in me" because I have only spent one year in the UK, or because I would only have the "minimum requirement" LLB. Not to mention that they are not *exactly* recruiting at the moment. That is for me a supplementary reason to pursue a LLM.
Now, I am turning to this forum, because I know some of you, looking for a double legal qualification, may face the same type of problems. Would you consider that non-national applicants are so disadvantaged that it's not worthwhile insisting to get a placement in the UK? Have you ever encountered such situations? What do you think my value on the legal market is, what are the gaps, and maybe, how you think I may solve them?
I am not in need of an approval ; what I need is a critical review of my experience so far.
I am REALLY looking forward for your answers :)
Posted May 31, 2009 08:58
Any comment ?
Posted Jun 15, 2009 12:24
I really dont know about this but I hope somebody can help you cause it does seem you are in a very big dilemma!!!
good luck :)
good luck :)
Posted Jun 28, 2009 14:32
Dear Pucca,
First, let me say I think you are massively over-worrying. The perception amongst lawyers is that undertaking a law degree in common and civilian law is a major and very creditable achievement which will put you in good stead for the future. You now have a good knowledge of the two most common legal systems on the planet which is good for any young lawyer with international legal ambitions.
I suspect your problems in finding placements have much more to do with the state of the economy than your degree.
Its difficult to advise without knowing more about your background and whether you are interested for instance in European or Commercial Law or other areas such as Human Rights.
I agree an LLM is a good idea to give you a deeper knowledge of specific areas of law, but you will be impressing them already with your joint degree.
A few brief thoughts
1. College of Europe, Brugge, that might be a good idea to have a look at, especially given your language skills. If you get in the state pays (HMG can still just about afford it). Potentially you could do your UK LLM then do the LLM at Brugge.....together its a knock out for a traineeship.
2. Stage European Commission, again depends what you are interested, DG Competition? or perhaps more environmental or social justice areas.....again would help gaining a training contract-plus Law soc regs allow time served in the Commission to count as part of traineeship.
3. Check Law Society and Anglo-French law societies for scholarship and grant monies, there are some around
4. If you are looking for human rights end law, have a look at some of the charities operating in French speaking Africa, they probably have need for legal assistants to help with their work, again a good way to get experience.
Hope this helps. Email me if you want any more advice
Professor Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University
Grays Inn, London
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
http://www.flickr.com/photos/citylawschool/sets/72157619957092800/show/with/3641325166/
First, let me say I think you are massively over-worrying. The perception amongst lawyers is that undertaking a law degree in common and civilian law is a major and very creditable achievement which will put you in good stead for the future. You now have a good knowledge of the two most common legal systems on the planet which is good for any young lawyer with international legal ambitions.
I suspect your problems in finding placements have much more to do with the state of the economy than your degree.
Its difficult to advise without knowing more about your background and whether you are interested for instance in European or Commercial Law or other areas such as Human Rights.
I agree an LLM is a good idea to give you a deeper knowledge of specific areas of law, but you will be impressing them already with your joint degree.
A few brief thoughts
1. College of Europe, Brugge, that might be a good idea to have a look at, especially given your language skills. If you get in the state pays (HMG can still just about afford it). Potentially you could do your UK LLM then do the LLM at Brugge.....together its a knock out for a traineeship.
2. Stage European Commission, again depends what you are interested, DG Competition? or perhaps more environmental or social justice areas.....again would help gaining a training contract-plus Law soc regs allow time served in the Commission to count as part of traineeship.
3. Check Law Society and Anglo-French law societies for scholarship and grant monies, there are some around
4. If you are looking for human rights end law, have a look at some of the charities operating in French speaking Africa, they probably have need for legal assistants to help with their work, again a good way to get experience.
Hope this helps. Email me if you want any more advice
Professor Alan Riley
Director LLM Programme
City Law School
City University
Grays Inn, London
Electronic Mail: alan.riley.1@city.ac.uk
http://www.flickr.com/photos/citylawschool/sets/72157619957092800/show/with/3641325166/
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