LLM in Arbitration


incanus
Hello everybody! I was wondering if anybody here could give me feedback on any LLMs in Arbitration. I have done some research and QMUL, Stockholm University and the MIDS in Geneva always round up as the best programs. Does anyone here who is attending any of those programs can share their experience? Does an LLM in arbitration helps you get a job in that field?

Thanks a lot!
Hello everybody! I was wondering if anybody here could give me feedback on any LLMs in Arbitration. I have done some research and QMUL, Stockholm University and the MIDS in Geneva always round up as the best programs. Does anyone here who is attending any of those programs can share their experience? Does an LLM in arbitration helps you get a job in that field?

Thanks a lot!
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USA_UK
Hi,

I am also wondering the same thing. I am a US domestic with a JD, but I am also a UK citizen with an interest in a career in london. From what I understand, the MIDS and Stockholm University are best in the Continent but as far as international arbitration programs in London goes, QMUL is top. I wonder however what this means for career prospects in the field in London?
Hi,

I am also wondering the same thing. I am a US domestic with a JD, but I am also a UK citizen with an interest in a career in london. From what I understand, the MIDS and Stockholm University are best in the Continent but as far as international arbitration programs in London goes, QMUL is top. I wonder however what this means for career prospects in the field in London?
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corleon
Hi guys,

im in the same boat, Im from civil law jurisdiction and thanks to a fellowship Im going to pursue an LLM in commercial and corporate law focusing my attention on international arbitration, comparative dispute resolution and international construction contracts. As far as I know qmul is at the top in Europe in this field but I dont know almost anything about career prospects in the UK after attendind this kind of LLMs. Perhaps if international arbitration is a point of strength at qmul - and if the market isn't too much overcrowded in this sector - few opportunities would arise.

Are you going both to qmul for the academic year 2010-2011 ?
Hi guys,

i’m in the same boat, I’m from civil law jurisdiction and thanks to a fellowship I’m going to pursue an LLM in commercial and corporate law focusing my attention on international arbitration, comparative dispute resolution and international construction contracts. As far as I know qmul is at the top in Europe in this field – but I don’t know almost anything about career prospects in the UK after attendind this kind of LLMs. Perhaps if international arbitration is a point of strength at qmul - and if the market isn't too much overcrowded in this sector - few opportunities would arise.

Are you going both to qmul for the academic year 2010-2011 ?
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USA_UK
I am deciding between QMUL and American University (WCL).

As I say, I am a domestic US with a JD. My concerns with the institutions' links to law firms and other employers notwithstanding (this concern applies equally to both schools), I am also concerned with the ability to work in the UK after my LLM at QMUL. I am NY Bar certified. Would I be considered an international applicant or a domestic applicant for firms in the UK? I understand that I can take the QLTT to qualify as a solicitor. However, what impact will this and an LLM from QMUL have in term of recruitment/recruiting from employers?
I am deciding between QMUL and American University (WCL).

As I say, I am a domestic US with a JD. My concerns with the institutions' links to law firms and other employers notwithstanding (this concern applies equally to both schools), I am also concerned with the ability to work in the UK after my LLM at QMUL. I am NY Bar certified. Would I be considered an international applicant or a domestic applicant for firms in the UK? I understand that I can take the QLTT to qualify as a solicitor. However, what impact will this and an LLM from QMUL have in term of recruitment/recruiting from employers?
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Good Gosh
you can't work as a domestic lawyer in the UK with a UK llm. you can, however, practice american law in london in an american firm based in london (cravath, etc.) as a JD.
you can't work as a domestic lawyer in the UK with a UK llm. you can, however, practice american law in london in an american firm based in london (cravath, etc.) as a JD.
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USA_UK
Thanks!

Any idea on what U.S. firms in London look at from LLMs (US v. UK, Oxbridge v. LSE/UCL/QMUL) ?
Thanks!

Any idea on what U.S. firms in London look at from LLMs (US v. UK, Oxbridge v. LSE/UCL/QMUL) ?
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Good Gosh
i imagine it's the same as what firms everywhere look for: grades, quality of the university you attend, relevance of your llm to the firm's specialties, extracurriculars, character references...
i imagine it's the same as what firms everywhere look for: grades, quality of the university you attend, relevance of your llm to the firm's specialties, extracurriculars, character references...
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If I were from a common law country, I would rather prefer to do my LLM in a civil law country to gain a different prespective. I think this is very well considered by law firms, specially in the field of arbitration, were usually both legal systems are mixed (whether because the parties are from different jurisdiction, or the arbitratiors are from different jurisdiction, or even the seat of the arbitration its in a different jurisdiction). I think the MIDS its an excelent option for you. It is in a civil law country, (in my view) it has the the best prefossors in arbitration, and I have heard very good thigs from that LLM from a friend of mine that is finishing it. She told me that apparently all students found a job or internship after the program (and according to the website, if you see to the profile of the students of the year before, it seems that no one had a problem in finding something). Actually she got an internship in the UK, so I dont think that it would be a problem to enter into the UK market.
If I were from a common law country, I would rather prefer to do my LLM in a civil law country to gain a different prespective. I think this is very well considered by law firms, specially in the field of arbitration, were usually both legal systems are mixed (whether because the parties are from different jurisdiction, or the arbitratiors are from different jurisdiction, or even the seat of the arbitration its in a different jurisdiction). I think the MIDS its an excelent option for you. It is in a civil law country, (in my view) it has the the best prefossors in arbitration, and I have heard very good thigs from that LLM from a friend of mine that is finishing it. She told me that apparently all students found a job or internship after the program (and according to the website, if you see to the profile of the students of the year before, it seems that no one had a problem in finding something). Actually she got an internship in the UK, so I dont think that it would be a problem to enter into the UK market.
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corleon
Hello Scholarship,

could you give us few information about your friend.. such as where she got her internship and where she is ending her LLM ?

thks in advance!
Hello Scholarship,

could you give us few information about your friend.. such as where she got her internship and where she is ending her LLM ?

thks in advance!
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Corelon, she is ending her LLM at the MIDS and, if I am not wrong, she got the internship at Wilmer Hale. I will ask her again next time I speak to her. Hope it helps!
Corelon, she is ending her LLM at the MIDS and, if I am not wrong, she got the internship at Wilmer Hale. I will ask her again next time I speak to her. Hope it helps!
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corleon
Indeed ! thanks for your help :-)
Indeed ! thanks for your help :-)
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Still completing QM's course gives you exemptions for the CIArb fellowship examinations - a FCIArb or MCIarb is becoming a must for those who are only at the beginning of their career in arbitration.
Still completing QM's course gives you exemptions for the CIArb fellowship examinations - a FCIArb or MCIarb is becoming a must for those who are only at the beginning of their career in arbitration.
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USA_UK
Thank you - all very informative!

How does recruitment work in the UK? In the US, most firms have on-campus scheduled visits and interview programs. Many LLM programs at US law schools have specialized visits and interview programs, and of course there is the NYU LLM interview and career fair in January that is open to all US LLM programs. Any similar equivalent in the UK?

I couldn't find much information on the QMUL website on any campus interview program. The information I did find was where alumni have secured positions - these seemed to be many QM LLM alums in UK firms in other EU country offices..
Thank you - all very informative!

How does recruitment work in the UK? In the US, most firms have on-campus scheduled visits and interview programs. Many LLM programs at US law schools have specialized visits and interview programs, and of course there is the NYU LLM interview and career fair in January that is open to all US LLM programs. Any similar equivalent in the UK?

I couldn't find much information on the QMUL website on any campus interview program. The information I did find was where alumni have secured positions - these seemed to be many QM LLM alums in UK firms in other EU country offices..
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silver
Hi Everyone,

So here's a consideration that hasn't been raised yet: the Willem C. Vis International Arbitration Moot. I note that KCL won the moot last year and got third place the year before, so they evidently take the moot seriously. If you're eligible to make the moot team (ie. haven't practiced before), is going to KCL for a career in international arbitration a good idea just by virtue of their track record in the Vis Moot?

Alternatively, UCL this year has a new specialism in 'International Arbitration and Litigation'. It's probable that the courses under the specialism were around well before the specialism itself was established. Has anyone heard anything about international arbitration prospects at UCL? Also, what are people's thoughts on your marketability in international arbitration with an LLM specifically in 'International Arbitration and Litigation' from UCL?
Hi Everyone,

So here's a consideration that hasn't been raised yet: the Willem C. Vis International Arbitration Moot. I note that KCL won the moot last year and got third place the year before, so they evidently take the moot seriously. If you're eligible to make the moot team (ie. haven't practiced before), is going to KCL for a career in international arbitration a good idea just by virtue of their track record in the Vis Moot?

Alternatively, UCL this year has a new specialism in 'International Arbitration and Litigation'. It's probable that the courses under the specialism were around well before the specialism itself was established. Has anyone heard anything about international arbitration prospects at UCL? Also, what are people's thoughts on your marketability in international arbitration with an LLM specifically in 'International Arbitration and Litigation' from UCL?
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USA_UK
Indeed, KCL did win the competition this year.

QMUL won in 2006. Not sure how many wins each has as compared to each other.

I also believe the rule you state for eligibility to make the moot team is if you have continued in the competition past the general rounds, only then are you ineligible to compete in any subsequent year (i.e. if you do not advance then you can make the team and compete in subsequent years). Also I don't know how this rule applies to those participating in teams from different institutions (I would seek to join the vis moot team of the LLM institution I attend while I have participated on the Vis Moot team from my JD-granting institution).

I also note that QM is a founding member of the moot. Not sure what influence this has however.
Indeed, KCL did win the competition this year.

QMUL won in 2006. Not sure how many wins each has as compared to each other.

I also believe the rule you state for eligibility to make the moot team is if you have continued in the competition past the general rounds, only then are you ineligible to compete in any subsequent year (i.e. if you do not advance then you can make the team and compete in subsequent years). Also I don't know how this rule applies to those participating in teams from different institutions (I would seek to join the vis moot team of the LLM institution I attend while I have participated on the Vis Moot team from my JD-granting institution).

I also note that QM is a founding member of the moot. Not sure what influence this has however.
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If I am not mistaken, QM never won the Vis Moot and it seems that QM doesn't pressure their mooters to win anything at all. The difference between the way QM and other universities recruit for their Vis teams is that if you want to participate in the moot you will have to take the module on Commercial Oral and Written Advocasy - i.e. you will to have sacrifice any other module that may actually be more important for your record. Just imagine your employer seeing your transcript will a module like that.
If I am not mistaken, QM never won the Vis Moot and it seems that QM doesn't pressure their mooters to win anything at all. The difference between the way QM and other universities recruit for their Vis teams is that if you want to participate in the moot you will have to take the module on Commercial Oral and Written Advocasy - i.e. you will to have sacrifice any other module that may actually be more important for your record. Just imagine your employer seeing your transcript will a module like that.
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bilal_law
well i think if one really desires to go for practice and lawyering in any field,the best is to do the law graduation,and then start practicing, and if one does not want to in the field of lawyering and prefer for jobs then it is fine to go for masters and doctorate.
I think it is absolute wastage of time if you spend in perusing for LLM to get better scope or efficiency in legal practice.Since the legal practice is a real and practical field for achieving best of knowledge,i cannot say it for Americans since i am Indian and after doing L.L.B. i joined bar practiced and got strong hold on ARBITRATION LAWS,as UNICTRAL, i.e. United Nations International Trade Laws is the governing law in arbitration today,and in our own country The Arbitration and Cancellation Law is based on the same pattern.Our legal system is based on British Jurisprudence,and it is to mention here that LLM in Uk is not considered for those who desire to practice as lawyers in UK,for that simplly you need to do diploma which is of 6 months duration and you can join the bar in Uk.
However i suggest if you really want to get best of education in law there is non else other than INDAIN universities in world where you learn quality law in all of its aspects.
bilalautshi@gmail.com
well i think if one really desires to go for practice and lawyering in any field,the best is to do the law graduation,and then start practicing, and if one does not want to in the field of lawyering and prefer for jobs then it is fine to go for masters and doctorate.
I think it is absolute wastage of time if you spend in perusing for LLM to get better scope or efficiency in legal practice.Since the legal practice is a real and practical field for achieving best of knowledge,i cannot say it for Americans since i am Indian and after doing L.L.B. i joined bar practiced and got strong hold on ARBITRATION LAWS,as UNICTRAL, i.e. United Nations International Trade Laws is the governing law in arbitration today,and in our own country The Arbitration and Cancellation Law is based on the same pattern.Our legal system is based on British Jurisprudence,and it is to mention here that LLM in Uk is not considered for those who desire to practice as lawyers in UK,for that simplly you need to do diploma which is of 6 months duration and you can join the bar in Uk.
However i suggest if you really want to get best of education in law there is non else other than INDAIN universities in world where you learn quality law in all of its aspects.
bilalautshi@gmail.com
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DianaBerk
I think that considering results in moot courts makes no sense because it has nothing to do with the quality of a program but with how many time you are able to spend in the preparation (e.g. australian universities usually do very well in the Vis Moot because they spend almost a year in preparation, and they do not have an impressive faculty). But if you think it its important, then you should consider results in every moot court because the Vis Moot is just one of thousands and in a very specific field within arbitration.
I think that considering results in moot courts makes no sense because it has nothing to do with the quality of a program but with how many time you are able to spend in the preparation (e.g. australian universities usually do very well in the Vis Moot because they spend almost a year in preparation, and they do not have an impressive faculty). But if you think it its important, then you should consider results in every moot court because the Vis Moot is just one of thousands and in a very specific field within arbitration.
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silver
Bilal, you've missed my point and my question, and you've misstated the process for admission to the UK bar for foreigners. Your statement that "LLM in the UK is not considered for those who deisre to practice as lawyers in UK" is wrong, given that doing an LLM in the UK puts you into a network. In fact, the whole point of my discussion about attending KCL for the Vis moot is precisely because it would put a mooter into a network of employers. Furthermore, even if a UK LLM would not help with employment in the UK, it could be used anywhere else in the world, so the suggestion that a UK LLM is an "absolute wastage of time" is a subjective point of view and nothing more.

That said, Indian universities are quite progressive. I've been to the NLSIU and other national law schools around India for field work, and am impressed with the progress I see every time. In fact, I was considering doing an LLM in India myself, but alas, Indian LLMs are two years long. Moreover, India has restricted admission to the bar to graduates of local law programs, which means the LLM would not offer any opportunity for foreign lawyers to practice in India. If it wasn't for these two drawbacks, believe me, I would be in India right now!

Now, if I may divert the discussion back to my question, how important do you all think KCL's performance in the Vis moot is to selecting a London university? My choices are KCL and UCL, and so far I am more impressed by KCL. (I unfortunately did not even apply to QMUL, which is regrettable.)
Bilal, you've missed my point and my question, and you've misstated the process for admission to the UK bar for foreigners. Your statement that "LLM in the UK is not considered for those who deisre to practice as lawyers in UK" is wrong, given that doing an LLM in the UK puts you into a network. In fact, the whole point of my discussion about attending KCL for the Vis moot is precisely because it would put a mooter into a network of employers. Furthermore, even if a UK LLM would not help with employment in the UK, it could be used anywhere else in the world, so the suggestion that a UK LLM is an "absolute wastage of time" is a subjective point of view and nothing more.

That said, Indian universities are quite progressive. I've been to the NLSIU and other national law schools around India for field work, and am impressed with the progress I see every time. In fact, I was considering doing an LLM in India myself, but alas, Indian LLMs are two years long. Moreover, India has restricted admission to the bar to graduates of local law programs, which means the LLM would not offer any opportunity for foreign lawyers to practice in India. If it wasn't for these two drawbacks, believe me, I would be in India right now!

Now, if I may divert the discussion back to my question, how important do you all think KCL's performance in the Vis moot is to selecting a London university? My choices are KCL and UCL, and so far I am more impressed by KCL. (I unfortunately did not even apply to QMUL, which is regrettable.)
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USA_UK
As we have discussed earlier in this post, and I would agree with Silver here, the LLM in the UK seems to be for the purpose of becoming acquainted with and gaining experience in the UK legal market for internationals. It seems that those who are certified to practice law in their country can take the QTTL to become a solicitor and practice law in England and Wales, notwithstanding an experience requirement. I am only receiving my JD in the US last month and I will take the bar in late July, so if I pass it looks like I would need to practice as a foreign lawyer in england for two years before I could practice law in England and Wales. Here the link I found on the QMUL website.

http://www.law.qmul.ac.uk/docs/working_as_solicitor_barrister_uk_2010.pdf

Regarding the Vis, it does seem as though QMUL took the Frédéric Eisemann Award in 2006. Both KCL and QMUL have taken once, UCL has never taken it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_C._Vis_Moot
As we have discussed earlier in this post, and I would agree with Silver here, the LLM in the UK seems to be for the purpose of becoming acquainted with and gaining experience in the UK legal market for internationals. It seems that those who are certified to practice law in their country can take the QTTL to become a solicitor and practice law in England and Wales, notwithstanding an experience requirement. I am only receiving my JD in the US last month and I will take the bar in late July, so if I pass it looks like I would need to practice as a foreign lawyer in england for two years before I could practice law in England and Wales. Here the link I found on the QMUL website.

http://www.law.qmul.ac.uk/docs/working_as_solicitor_barrister_uk_2010.pdf

Regarding the Vis, it does seem as though QMUL took the Frédéric Eisemann Award in 2006. Both KCL and QMUL have taken once, UCL has never taken it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willem_C._Vis_Moot
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