Beware of French LLM program--they are not real Master degree program!!!


y s

Hello,

If the LLB in the UK allows to become a qualified sollicitor/barrister in the UK then you can benefit of Art 1 - 8° of the Act of 25 November 1998 (https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000000392301) while enrolling to an IEJ (Institut d'Etudes Judiciaires) which prepares to passing the CRFPA exams.

But still without good knowledge of French law you will fail the CRFPA exams (to further continue studies at EFB - School of Advocates, which is a pre-requisite to becoming an advocate in France).

And I am not discussing here the difficulty to find an internship/job in France without a proper French diploma.

Alternatively your LLB could be recognized as an equivalent of a "Licence" by the relevant university in France but this is not automatic unless there is an agreement between France and UK, and you must contact the relevant university on how to do this prior to enrolling to Master 1.

Hello,

If the LLB in the UK allows to become a qualified sollicitor/barrister in the UK then you can benefit of Art 1 - 8° of the Act of 25 November 1998 (https://www.legifrance.gouv.fr/affichTexte.do?cidTexte=JORFTEXT000000392301) while enrolling to an IEJ (Institut d'Etudes Judiciaires) which prepares to passing the CRFPA exams.

But still without good knowledge of French law you will fail the CRFPA exams (to further continue studies at EFB - School of Advocates, which is a pre-requisite to becoming an advocate in France).

And I am not discussing here the difficulty to find an internship/job in France without a proper French diploma.

Alternatively your LLB could be recognized as an equivalent of a "Licence" by the relevant university in France but this is not automatic unless there is an agreement between France and UK, and you must contact the relevant university on how to do this prior to enrolling to Master 1.
quote
Nn Nn

"Le LLM (Legum Magister) de droit français et de droit européen est un diplôme de niveau troisième cycle de l'Université Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne destiné à deux catégories de juristes étrangers..."

Hi ...
Just wondering, does the LLM offered by QMUL or Sorbonne match the requirements of either QMUL and Sorbonne's PH.D program ..?
Because lm planning to apply for PHD in Law in Sorbonne once I graduate ..!?

[Edited by Nn Nn on Sep 23, 2017]

"Le LLM (Legum Magister) de droit français et de droit européen est un diplôme de niveau troisième cycle de l'Université Paris 1 Panthéon-Sorbonne destiné à deux catégories de juristes étrangers..."

Hi ...
Just wondering, does the LLM offered by QMUL or Sorbonne match the requirements of either QMUL and Sorbonne's PH.D program ..?
Because lm planning to apply for PHD in Law in Sorbonne once I graduate ..!?
quote
y s

IMHO, the LLM would not give access to the "Doctorat" because it is not considered as a "real" Master in the French educational system. But you should better address the admission commission (http://www.paris-sorbonne.fr/Inscription-these).

IMHO, the LLM would not give access to the "Doctorat" because it is not considered as a "real" Master in the French educational system. But you should better address the admission commission (http://www.paris-sorbonne.fr/Inscription-these).
quote

I agree with the poster. I am currently paying dearly for an LL> program i undertook in 2015/16 session. The French immigration office refused to grant me the post study visa on the ground that they do not recognise the LL.M program as a Masters degree. I have been researching and the EC directive on the recognition of academic diplomas does not exist because there is no obligation on countries to recognise academic degrees.

I am going to court with the matter to ask a legal question of whether it is legal for French universities to offer programs that cannot be recognized by their National Ministry of Superior Education?
I agree that one must ask pertinent questions during the application stage before falling into the trap of paying 10,000 euros for tuition and getting told that you cannot pursue a career in the country because your degree is not recognised.
It is very painful and disheartening and quite fraudulent.

I agree with the poster. I am currently paying dearly for an LL> program i undertook in 2015/16 session. The French immigration office refused to grant me the post study visa on the ground that they do not recognise the LL.M program as a Masters degree. I have been researching and the EC directive on the recognition of academic diplomas does not exist because there is no obligation on countries to recognise academic degrees.

I am going to court with the matter to ask a legal question of whether it is legal for French universities to offer programs that cannot be recognized by their National Ministry of Superior Education?
I agree that one must ask pertinent questions during the application stage before falling into the trap of paying 10,000 euros for tuition and getting told that you cannot pursue a career in the country because your degree is not recognised.
It is very painful and disheartening and quite fraudulent.
quote

When my case is finished, I will go ahead to inform the Nigerian ministry of education and the embassy and the campus France located in Abuja, Lagos and Port Harcourt respectively to clarify these discrepancies.

When my case is finished, I will go ahead to inform the Nigerian ministry of education and the embassy and the campus France located in Abuja, Lagos and Port Harcourt respectively to clarify these discrepancies.
quote

this is for @NG. the bilingual French citizen. I studied an LL.M in international Business Law in the Universite Catholique de Lyon. I advise you not to do it because at the end it is not considered a Masters program in France. It will however allow you get enrolled in the Institut de Etudes judiciaires to prepare for the CRFPA. However , I would advice you to do the other Master as they deliver a M2 degree at the end of that one in convention with University Lyon II . The second one in investement and trade will be recognizable and acceptable in france because you will get a french national certiifcate reading master en droit which is really what you need.

I am currently paying dearly for undergoing the LL.m in International Business law. They only just started issuing Maitrise certificates and M2 certiifcates for it but even with the maitirse certificates, the prefecture denied my eligibility to have the APS as they did not consider Maitrise as being equivalent to a Master's degree

this is for @NG. the bilingual French citizen. I studied an LL.M in international Business Law in the Universite Catholique de Lyon. I advise you not to do it because at the end it is not considered a Masters program in France. It will however allow you get enrolled in the Institut de Etudes judiciaires to prepare for the CRFPA. However , I would advice you to do the other Master as they deliver a M2 degree at the end of that one in convention with University Lyon II . The second one in investement and trade will be recognizable and acceptable in france because you will get a french national certiifcate reading master en droit which is really what you need.

I am currently paying dearly for undergoing the LL.m in International Business law. They only just started issuing Maitrise certificates and M2 certiifcates for it but even with the maitirse certificates, the prefecture denied my eligibility to have the APS as they did not consider Maitrise as being equivalent to a Master's degree
quote

I would advice that if you want to do an LL.M program, you should just do it in the United Kingdom where you are sure that you are getting what you paid for and most big international law firms rate Uk degrees more that French degrees. Especially in Law.

I honestly wish I waited one more year and just went to the UK to do my masters, because i'm so pissed off. Goodluck to anyone who enrols and doesn't see this forum before.

I would advice that if you want to do an LL.M program, you should just do it in the United Kingdom where you are sure that you are getting what you paid for and most big international law firms rate Uk degrees more that French degrees. Especially in Law.

I honestly wish I waited one more year and just went to the UK to do my masters, because i'm so pissed off. Goodluck to anyone who enrols and doesn't see this forum before.
quote
y s

"Whether it is legal for French universities to offer programs that cannot be recognized by their National Ministry of Superior Education?"

Of course it is. It is called "Diplome Universitaire".

Anyway, it depends on your scope (use the diploma as a starting point to stay in the foreign country, or as a professional knowledge investment to use in your own country) and your financial opportunities (French courses and diplomas are CHEAPER than e.g. diplomas in the UK and the US.).

"Whether it is legal for French universities to offer programs that cannot be recognized by their National Ministry of Superior Education?"

Of course it is. It is called "Diplome Universitaire".

Anyway, it depends on your scope (use the diploma as a starting point to stay in the foreign country, or as a professional knowledge investment to use in your own country) and your financial opportunities (French courses and diplomas are CHEAPER than e.g. diplomas in the UK and the US.).
quote
Buci

Hi everyone,




This is quite an old thread but since it is still up there and many applicants may ask themselves where is the truth in all of this, I am happy to come forward as one of the officers who manages the LL.M. in International Business Law of Sorbonne-Assas International Law School / University Paris 2 Panthéon-Assas.


I will answer several questions which I believe are interconnected.
1. DIPLOMA vs DEGREE




Some of you may have noticed that universities that offer a LL.M. claim that it is a "University Diploma", or in French "Diplome Universitaire". They then question the value of the programme and whether it would award them a "diploma" or a "degree".

I think the confusion is in the language.
“Diploma” is the direct translation of the French word “Diplôme” , which refers to the document (ie, the piece of paper) that you receive at the end of your studies. In France, a “Diplôme” may be awarded for a Bachelor, a Master or a Ph.D. degree.
Because of that, I would prefer to translate "Diplome Universitaire" as "University Degree" to avoid the confusion.
The LL.M. programme is a Master-level degree awarded by the university ("University Degree") in opposition to a Master degree awarded by the state ("National Degree").
2. UNIVERSITY DEGREE vs NATIONAL DEGREE


To put it simple, this notion is prevalent in Europe where Civil law applies and does not apply in countries using the Common law.
The differences between those two types of degrees is that, in some countries, a national degree is a prerequisite for the (national) bar exam, a visa application or a Ph.D. application. National degrees may be eligible to government grants or fall under some bilateral agreements between countries.
The intrinsic value of a University Degree lies on the reputation of the University that awards it. In the U.K. or in the U.S.A. all LL.M. degrees are University Degrees. What makes them stand out from the rest is the notoriety of the Universities. The same applies for LL.M. degrees awarded by a European University.
Outside of France, there is not much difference between the two types of degrees except for the importance given to the University that awarded the degree. For administrative purposes (visa) and bar exam qualification in France, you would require a national degree.
3. MAY I PURSUE A PH.D. AFTER A LL.M. ?


In regards to following up with a Ph.D., it would probably be valid for most countries using the British system. As mentioned earlier, in the U.K., all LL.M. degrees are awarded by the universities, not the state. I would advise to contact the university in which you would like to pursue a Ph.D. and inquire with them directly. The recognition of a Foreign degree is discretionary to the host university.
As for Universities in the European Union, you would require a National Degree to pursue a Ph.D.
Hoping this clarifies,

you may send me a private message if you require further information.






























[Edited by Buci on Jul 06, 2021]

Hi everyone,<br>
<div><br>
</div><br><div>This is quite an old thread but since it is still up there and many applicants may ask themselves where is the truth in all of this, I am happy to come forward as one of the officers who manages the LL.M. in International Business Law of Sorbonne-Assas International Law School / University Paris 2 Panthéon-Assas.<br>
</div><br><div>I will answer several questions which I believe are interconnected.</div><br><div>1. DIPLOMA vs DEGREE<br>
</div><br><br><br><div>Some of you may have noticed that universities that offer a LL.M. claim that it is a "University Diploma", or in French "Diplome Universitaire". They then question the value of the programme and whether it would award them a "diploma" or a "degree".<br>
</div><div>I think the confusion is in the language.</div><br><div>“Diploma” is the direct translation of the French word “Diplôme” , which refers to the document (ie, the piece of paper) that you receive at the end of your studies. In France, a “Diplôme” may be awarded for a Bachelor, a Master or a Ph.D. degree.</div><br><div>Because of that, I would prefer to translate "Diplome Universitaire" as "University Degree" to avoid the confusion.</div><br><div>The LL.M. programme is a Master-level degree awarded by the university ("University Degree") in opposition to a Master degree awarded by the state ("National Degree").</div><br><div>2. UNIVERSITY DEGREE vs NATIONAL DEGREE</div><br><br><br><div>To put it simple, this notion is prevalent in Europe where Civil law applies and does not apply in countries using the Common law.</div><br><div>The differences between those two types of degrees is that, in some countries, a national degree is a prerequisite for the (national) bar exam, a visa application or a Ph.D. application. National degrees may be eligible to government grants or fall under some bilateral agreements between countries.</div><br><div>The intrinsic value of a University Degree lies on the reputation of the University that awards it. In the U.K. or in the U.S.A. all LL.M. degrees are University Degrees. What makes them stand out from the rest is the notoriety of the Universities. The same applies for LL.M. degrees awarded by a European University.</div><br><div>Outside of France, there is not much difference between the two types of degrees except for the importance given to the University that awarded the degree. For administrative purposes (visa) and bar exam qualification in France, you would require a national degree.</div><br><div>3. MAY I PURSUE A PH.D. AFTER A LL.M. ?</div><br><br><br><div>In regards to following up with a Ph.D., it would probably be valid for most countries using the British system. As mentioned earlier, in the U.K., all LL.M. degrees are awarded by the universities, not the state. I would advise to contact the university in which you would like to pursue a Ph.D. and inquire with them directly. The recognition of a Foreign degree is discretionary to the host university.</div><br><div>As for Universities in the European Union, you would require a National Degree to pursue a Ph.D.</div><br><div>Hoping this clarifies,<br>
</div><div>you may send me a private message if you require further information.</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div><div><br>
</div>
quote

Reply to Post

Related Law Schools

Paris, France 79 Followers 77 Discussions
Paris, France 94 Followers 75 Discussions
Paris, France 109 Followers 27 Discussions

Other Related Content

Vive la France: LL.M. Programs in the Country of Romance

Article Jun 08, 2016

France is a popular LL.M. destination for foreign law students who want EU legal and language experience in one of Europe's most famous cultures.

Hot Discussions