The external LLB in Canada


joshua
Hi all.

Greetings from the Great White North! I'm Canadian, completed the B.A. and M.A. at Canadian universities. I've always thought about studying law, at a Canadian university, but family and work reasons made this extremely difficult to impossible.

I want to hear from other Canadians on the board. Is anyone studying for, or has completed the external LLB from the University of London, and can share their experiences, ie. academic rigour, how the degree is perceived in terms of career advancement, etc...does the degree prep and qualify one for further "on-campus" studies elsewhere?

I'm thinking of doing an LLM later in life out of personal interest...but hey, I'm getting ahead of myself here...

Thanks.
Hi all.

Greetings from the Great White North! I'm Canadian, completed the B.A. and M.A. at Canadian universities. I've always thought about studying law, at a Canadian university, but family and work reasons made this extremely difficult to impossible.

I want to hear from other Canadians on the board. Is anyone studying for, or has completed the external LLB from the University of London, and can share their experiences, ie. academic rigour, how the degree is perceived in terms of career advancement, etc...does the degree prep and qualify one for further "on-campus" studies elsewhere?

I'm thinking of doing an LLM later in life out of personal interest...but hey, I'm getting ahead of myself here...

Thanks.
quote
werejim
Hi Joshua,

I have done a fair bit of research on this.

I have completed one year toward the UoL LLB, and I am Canadian living in Quebec.

To answer your questions as best I can:

Academic rigour: Excellent. The exams are not easy. The workload is significant.

Career advancement: Not sure. Although I have no research to substantiate this I would venture that a distance learning degree will tend to be viewed as a lesser dergree. My own experience is that on a social level people perk up when they hear you're studying law at University of London. There is a great deal of prestige associated with the school.

Does it prepare you for further future, on campus, study? Not sure as I have not gone that route. I would think that it would be a good prep for further study.

Now, if your question is: Is this a good way to get into Canadian Law school? I'm not sure I would endorse it. With a foreign earned LLB one would apply to Canadian law school as an advanced standing student, or as a National Council on Accreditation applicant (Note: if you're in Quebec, it's different). Advanced standing spots are difficult to land. Plus, the grades at UoL tend to be very low, only something like 4% of students achieve an upper second class standing. Less than 1% first class standing. A lower second does not look good on an application, since most schools will place a great deal of importance on marks achieved in previous legal studies.

Please note that if you have a focused legal interest there are various DL LLM programs available that do not require a LLB for entry, one may be more suitable for your purposes.

Hope this helps.
Hi Joshua,

I have done a fair bit of research on this.

I have completed one year toward the UoL LLB, and I am Canadian living in Quebec.

To answer your questions as best I can:

Academic rigour: Excellent. The exams are not easy. The workload is significant.

Career advancement: Not sure. Although I have no research to substantiate this I would venture that a distance learning degree will tend to be viewed as a lesser dergree. My own experience is that on a social level people perk up when they hear you're studying law at University of London. There is a great deal of prestige associated with the school.

Does it prepare you for further future, on campus, study? Not sure as I have not gone that route. I would think that it would be a good prep for further study.

Now, if your question is: Is this a good way to get into Canadian Law school? I'm not sure I would endorse it. With a foreign earned LLB one would apply to Canadian law school as an advanced standing student, or as a National Council on Accreditation applicant (Note: if you're in Quebec, it's different). Advanced standing spots are difficult to land. Plus, the grades at UoL tend to be very low, only something like 4% of students achieve an upper second class standing. Less than 1% first class standing. A lower second does not look good on an application, since most schools will place a great deal of importance on marks achieved in previous legal studies.

Please note that if you have a focused legal interest there are various DL LLM programs available that do not require a LLB for entry, one may be more suitable for your purposes.

Hope this helps.
quote
Pretorian
Hello,

I too am a canadian resident and I'm currently completing a LL.M from the U.of London in Banking and Finance and would like to enter in magic circle law firms in london in corporate/securitization.
My qualifications are as follows:
-LL.B from Canada
-M.A in international relations and Management from Netherlands.
-M.B.A from France
-Currently passing my bar exams in Quebec, as as soon as that is done will pass the english bar.
-2 years experience in corporate finance in fortune 50 company.
-Currently working in corporate law and M&A
-Speak french, english, italian and spanish.
How would you rank my chances of getting there?
Hello,

I too am a canadian resident and I'm currently completing a LL.M from the U.of London in Banking and Finance and would like to enter in magic circle law firms in london in corporate/securitization.
My qualifications are as follows:
-LL.B from Canada
-M.A in international relations and Management from Netherlands.
-M.B.A from France
-Currently passing my bar exams in Quebec, as as soon as that is done will pass the english bar.
-2 years experience in corporate finance in fortune 50 company.
-Currently working in corporate law and M&A
-Speak french, english, italian and spanish.
How would you rank my chances of getting there?
quote
sdusa
Hi, I wonder if I am eligible for applying to a LL.M program (one-year) in California or another state in the US after completing the external LL.B (three-yr program) from the UOL and subsequently to sit for a CA bar exam. Currenly, I reside in CA and am in a Ph.D. program in psychology.

TIA,
Hi, I wonder if I am eligible for applying to a LL.M program (one-year) in California or another state in the US after completing the external LL.B (three-yr program) from the UOL and subsequently to sit for a CA bar exam. Currenly, I reside in CA and am in a Ph.D. program in psychology.

TIA,
quote
ljohnson
I appreciated the first and second posts here, as I am also a graduate of a BA and MA from Canadian Universities. I want to study law, but I am not wishing to go back in to full time studies. The External LLB seems like the perfect option for me because I would like to work full time. I should note that I grew up in England, and am considering moving back to the UK in the future (although this is undecided), so a UK LLB has an additional attraction to me in case I ever decide to make this move.

In the meantime, however, I am concerned about accreditation as a lawyer in Canada upon completion of the U of London External LLB. I visited the FLSC website and reviewed the guidelines, but I am wondering if anyone has direct experience with this. I am wondering how much additional law school is required at a Canadian university upon completion of the London LLB.

Any advice would be most appreciated.

Thanks!
I appreciated the first and second posts here, as I am also a graduate of a BA and MA from Canadian Universities. I want to study law, but I am not wishing to go back in to full time studies. The External LLB seems like the perfect option for me because I would like to work full time. I should note that I grew up in England, and am considering moving back to the UK in the future (although this is undecided), so a UK LLB has an additional attraction to me in case I ever decide to make this move.

In the meantime, however, I am concerned about accreditation as a lawyer in Canada upon completion of the U of London External LLB. I visited the FLSC website and reviewed the guidelines, but I am wondering if anyone has direct experience with this. I am wondering how much additional law school is required at a Canadian university upon completion of the London LLB.

Any advice would be most appreciated.

Thanks!
quote
RP.
I am wondering how much additional law school is required at a Canadian university upon completion of the London LLB.


I'm not entirely sure of this, but the US, Commonwealth and Israeli students that went to law school with me in Canada needed 2 years to get their Canadian LL.B. Whether the law society in your province has other, less stringent requirements, I don't know.
<blockquote> I am wondering how much additional law school is required at a Canadian university upon completion of the London LLB. </blockquote>

I'm not entirely sure of this, but the US, Commonwealth and Israeli students that went to law school with me in Canada needed 2 years to get their Canadian LL.B. Whether the law society in your province has other, less stringent requirements, I don't know.
quote
Hey guys, not sure if anyone is still in the LLB program in Canada. But i have been doing extensive reseach and survey searching and it seems as the law degree from UOL and its external program is very well high in prestige and honors. I have currently achieved my MBA from York University and always wanted to do my LLB. Unfortunately my timing sucks because now York has a LLB/MBA joint program.

Well anyways, i was just wondering if anyone is still in this program and how do they find it. Some say the exams are NOT east and some do. Can someone please help me.
Hey guys, not sure if anyone is still in the LLB program in Canada. But i have been doing extensive reseach and survey searching and it seems as the law degree from UOL and its external program is very well high in prestige and honors. I have currently achieved my MBA from York University and always wanted to do my LLB. Unfortunately my timing sucks because now York has a LLB/MBA joint program.

Well anyways, i was just wondering if anyone is still in this program and how do they find it. Some say the exams are NOT east and some do. Can someone please help me.
quote
I have been looking into the LLB external program from the University of London. I am currently a teacher in British Columbia, with a Masters Degree in Educational Administration, a Bachelor of Education, and one course short of a BA with an English major. I am looking to change careers without stopping working and resubjecting my family to the poverty associated with a student lifestyle. The external program seems like just what is required, but I don't want to waste my time and money on a degree that doesn't allow me to practice law in Canada. This is what I have found out so far:
-You can get in to the external program straight out of high school, which is a problem in that the LLB in Canada is meant to be a professional degree. If you take the program and intend to practice law in Canada, you should probably take the 3 year option, or you will have to do 2 years of upgrading at a Canadian law school after you finish.
-Your marks matter, a lot, when you want to practice in Canada. With less than second class honours you will not get any recognition for the degree, and higher marks usually translate into less upgrading. I think that second class honours is a B average, and from what I hear the marking is tough in this program - you have to work for a B.
-If you do not have another degree, you will have to go to a Canadian law school after you finish the external program for 1 or 2 years. If you do have another degree you may qualify to take challenge exams instead. I have been in contact with someone from the body (whose name escapes me) in charge of reviewinf foreign law education and credentials in Canada, and she has been non-commital, but helpful. I am trying to find out the exact criteria used to make these decisions, so that I can make an informed decision.
-The University of London has a great international reputation, with Nelson Mandella, Ghandi, H.G. Wells, George Bernard Shaw, and countless politicians and judges counted among their alumni.


If anyone else has more information or stories about applying to the bar in a Canadian jurisdiction after taking the external LLB from the University of London, please let me know.

Many thanks, and best wishes.
I have been looking into the LLB external program from the University of London. I am currently a teacher in British Columbia, with a Masters Degree in Educational Administration, a Bachelor of Education, and one course short of a BA with an English major. I am looking to change careers without stopping working and resubjecting my family to the poverty associated with a student lifestyle. The external program seems like just what is required, but I don't want to waste my time and money on a degree that doesn't allow me to practice law in Canada. This is what I have found out so far:
-You can get in to the external program straight out of high school, which is a problem in that the LLB in Canada is meant to be a professional degree. If you take the program and intend to practice law in Canada, you should probably take the 3 year option, or you will have to do 2 years of upgrading at a Canadian law school after you finish.
-Your marks matter, a lot, when you want to practice in Canada. With less than second class honours you will not get any recognition for the degree, and higher marks usually translate into less upgrading. I think that second class honours is a B average, and from what I hear the marking is tough in this program - you have to work for a B.
-If you do not have another degree, you will have to go to a Canadian law school after you finish the external program for 1 or 2 years. If you do have another degree you may qualify to take challenge exams instead. I have been in contact with someone from the body (whose name escapes me) in charge of reviewinf foreign law education and credentials in Canada, and she has been non-commital, but helpful. I am trying to find out the exact criteria used to make these decisions, so that I can make an informed decision.
-The University of London has a great international reputation, with Nelson Mandella, Ghandi, H.G. Wells, George Bernard Shaw, and countless politicians and judges counted among their alumni.


If anyone else has more information or stories about applying to the bar in a Canadian jurisdiction after taking the external LLB from the University of London, please let me know.

Many thanks, and best wishes.
quote
Resipsa
Eligibility to take the Bar in the US or Canada should not be an issue. It certainly is not an issue in the US. Both the US and Canada follow Common Law, therefore you should be take able to take a Bar review course and pass the Bar.
Eligibility to take the Bar in the US or Canada should not be an issue. It certainly is not an issue in the US. Both the US and Canada follow Common Law, therefore you should be take able to take a Bar review course and pass the Bar.
quote
Could anyone help me please. I applied for the LLB external program at university of london. I am a candian citizen. I was thinking of doing one year at UOL and tranfer to a law school in canada. Do you think that would be possible?
Could anyone help me please. I applied for the LLB external program at university of london. I am a candian citizen. I was thinking of doing one year at UOL and tranfer to a law school in canada. Do you think that would be possible?
quote
dko
Hi all,

First of all, thank you for all your information and I found them very useful.

I have obtained a BSc from a Canadian University in the west coast and I am greatly interested in the field of law. I have been admitted to the External LLB program and I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on how to go about in practicing as a lawyer, please? FOr example, do I need to quit my current job (in the field of biotechnology) and work as a legal assistant?

Any help will be deeply appreciated. Thank you so much in advance.
Hi all,

First of all, thank you for all your information and I found them very useful.

I have obtained a BSc from a Canadian University in the west coast and I am greatly interested in the field of law. I have been admitted to the External LLB program and I was wondering if anyone can shed some light on how to go about in practicing as a lawyer, please? FOr example, do I need to quit my current job (in the field of biotechnology) and work as a legal assistant?

Any help will be deeply appreciated. Thank you so much in advance.
quote
This thread is very interesting and surprising - particularly with respect to the number of Canadians wanting to work in the UK.

I would just like to add to be wary of the external LLB as it does not hold the same cache as an LLB at one of the constituent colleges of the University of London. Despite the marking standards being the same, the degree will not have the same market value.

If you plan to practice law in Canada, then the external LLB or any LLB from the UK is pretty worthless as you'll be required to pass the arbitrary NCA exams before you can pass the Bar exams. This can involve an additional one/two years of study.
This thread is very interesting and surprising - particularly with respect to the number of Canadians wanting to work in the UK.

I would just like to add to be wary of the external LLB as it does not hold the same cache as an LLB at one of the constituent colleges of the University of London. Despite the marking standards being the same, the degree will not have the same market value.

If you plan to practice law in Canada, then the external LLB or any LLB from the UK is pretty worthless as you'll be required to pass the arbitrary NCA exams before you can pass the Bar exams. This can involve an additional one/two years of study.
quote
twista88
This thread is very interesting and surprising - particularly with respect to the number of Canadians wanting to work in the UK.

I would just like to add to be wary of the external LLB as it does not hold the same cache as an LLB at one of the constituent colleges of the University of London. Despite the marking standards being the same, the degree will not have the same market value.

If you plan to practice law in Canada, then the external LLB or any LLB from the UK is pretty worthless as you'll be required to pass the arbitrary NCA exams before you can pass the Bar exams. This can involve an additional one/two years of study.


Hi there,

What you have said is quite right .

Where internal vs external candidates is concern, then internal would be given preference and that's it. Ultimately, both mode of obtaining a LLB degree from UOL requires candidates to enrol and pass the requisite bar exams laid down by the governing body in the jurisdiction you desire to practice in. When the degree in its own capacity is recognized for practicing purposes in most jurisdictions then we need not worry, go ahead and obtain it, regardless whether you desire to practice, for career advancement or just for knowledge, investing in an UOL degree is never a waste, it will come in handy in due time.

As far as stale education is concerned, should you desire to practise after a long time, even though you have obtained a degree from the most prestigious universities in the world and you have not had a career relating to the field of study your degree relates to, then employers will have doubts and probably label you as having stale qualifications.

My advise to all who are pursuing or intending to pursue a law or another degree from UOL, would be to go ahead!

Regards,
Marc
<blockquote>This thread is very interesting and surprising - particularly with respect to the number of Canadians wanting to work in the UK.

I would just like to add to be wary of the external LLB as it does not hold the same cache as an LLB at one of the constituent colleges of the University of London. Despite the marking standards being the same, the degree will not have the same market value.

If you plan to practice law in Canada, then the external LLB or any LLB from the UK is pretty worthless as you'll be required to pass the arbitrary NCA exams before you can pass the Bar exams. This can involve an additional one/two years of study. </blockquote>

Hi there,

What you have said is quite right .

Where internal vs external candidates is concern, then internal would be given preference and that's it. Ultimately, both mode of obtaining a LLB degree from UOL requires candidates to enrol and pass the requisite bar exams laid down by the governing body in the jurisdiction you desire to practice in. When the degree in its own capacity is recognized for practicing purposes in most jurisdictions then we need not worry, go ahead and obtain it, regardless whether you desire to practice, for career advancement or just for knowledge, investing in an UOL degree is never a waste, it will come in handy in due time.

As far as stale education is concerned, should you desire to practise after a long time, even though you have obtained a degree from the most prestigious universities in the world and you have not had a career relating to the field of study your degree relates to, then employers will have doubts and probably label you as having stale qualifications.

My advise to all who are pursuing or intending to pursue a law or another degree from UOL, would be to go ahead!

Regards,
Marc

quote
addisondm
Could someone please elaborate on the post above concerning

"If you plan to practice law in Canada, then the external LLB or any LLB from the UK is pretty worthless"

"you'll be required to pass the arbitrary NCA exams before you can pass the Bar exams. This can involve an additional one/two years of study. "

-Is this true?

-What are the steps I would follow after obtaining the LLB from University of London External?

-How long could this take?

Reading the above statements kind of dissapointed me as I was excited there was an option for someone like myself who cannot quit my job to go back to school.

-Are there any other online LLB programs in Canada that are credible?


I have many questions, if someone can answer them could you please email me at addisondm@gmail.com
Could someone please elaborate on the post above concerning

"If you plan to practice law in Canada, then the external LLB or any LLB from the UK is pretty worthless"

"you'll be required to pass the arbitrary NCA exams before you can pass the Bar exams. This can involve an additional one/two years of study. "

-Is this true?

-What are the steps I would follow after obtaining the LLB from University of London External?

-How long could this take?

Reading the above statements kind of dissapointed me as I was excited there was an option for someone like myself who cannot quit my job to go back to school.

-Are there any other online LLB programs in Canada that are credible?


I have many questions, if someone can answer them could you please email me at addisondm@gmail.com
quote
From some preliminary research it appears possible to complete the external program at UOL and then apply for a LLM at a Canadian university in order to to become qualified for Canadian Common Law.

Depending on grades does this seem a reasonable route?
From some preliminary research it appears possible to complete the external program at UOL and then apply for a LLM at a Canadian university in order to to become qualified for Canadian Common Law.

Depending on grades does this seem a reasonable route?
quote
Poppet
^^ I really don't get the impression that that is true. From what i understand you really do need to either take the NCA exams or take 1-2 years worth of courses at the LLB level in Canada in order to be eligible to take the bar examination. My understanding is that Canada is NOT like the US, where taking an LLM will count as a certain number of "required hours" of legal training at a bar-approved US institution, which will eventually allow you to pass the bar. (And I believe that in the US also, only a few states offer that possibility in the first place.)
^^ I really don't get the impression that that is true. From what i understand you really do need to either take the NCA exams or take 1-2 years worth of courses at the LLB level in Canada in order to be eligible to take the bar examination. My understanding is that Canada is NOT like the US, where taking an LLM will count as a certain number of "required hours" of legal training at a bar-approved US institution, which will eventually allow you to pass the bar. (And I believe that in the US also, only a few states offer that possibility in the first place.)
quote
Thanks very much for this post. Granted I need to contact each US bar (easier said than done!) to confirm eligibility, but I was wondering what US jurisdictions people have had luck with writing bar exams for, using the UoL International Programmes LLB as the first law degree? I don't mind doing a US LLM if that is what it takes, but I want to be sure I will at least have that option. Massachusetts? North Carolina?

I'm also wondering if people on here think that the deficiency of this degree in terms of cachet can be overlooked given that I wok at a very visible international organization.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated... thanks everyone.
Thanks very much for this post. Granted I need to contact each US bar (easier said than done!) to confirm eligibility, but I was wondering what US jurisdictions people have had luck with writing bar exams for, using the UoL International Programmes LLB as the first law degree? I don't mind doing a US LLM if that is what it takes, but I want to be sure I will at least have that option. Massachusetts? North Carolina?

I'm also wondering if people on here think that the deficiency of this degree in terms of cachet can be overlooked given that I wok at a very visible international organization.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated... thanks everyone.
quote

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