NY Bar Course in London


Jazzman
Hi everyone. I have been looking in to the courses offered in London which provide training for the NY Bar Exam. Has anyone taken one of these courses, and if so, what was your opinion of it?
Hi everyone. I have been looking in to the courses offered in London which provide training for the NY Bar Exam. Has anyone taken one of these courses, and if so, what was your opinion of it?
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5legal
Hi, I can send you some information regarding our courses. Our company is called 5Legal Training Ltd and we offer courses to prepare UK students for the New York Bar Exam.
If you would like further information - please visit www.5legal.com.

Let me know what questions you have.

Thanks!
Hi, I can send you some information regarding our courses. Our company is called 5Legal Training Ltd and we offer courses to prepare UK students for the New York Bar Exam.
If you would like further information - please visit www.5legal.com.

Let me know what questions you have.

Thanks!
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ColumbiaJo...
I recommend buying books off ebay.
I recommend buying books off ebay.
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5legal
I recommend buying books off ebay.


Buying books of ebay is fine, but note that the NY Bar Exam is one of the most difficult law exams in the world. Therefore, for foreign students, it is imperative that you research your chose NY Bar Provider carefully.
<blockquote>I recommend buying books off ebay.</blockquote>

Buying books of ebay is fine, but note that the NY Bar Exam is one of the most difficult law exams in the world. Therefore, for foreign students, it is imperative that you research your chose NY Bar Provider carefully.
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Jazzman
Hi, I looked at your website which states the following:

"Graduates in UK/Europe who have a completed a law degree (UK LLB, or equivalent in Europe) are immediately eligible to apply to sit the New York Bar Exam.

"For those that have not completed a LLB, or equivalent, but have taken the Common Professional Examination (CPE), or equivalent in Europe, and are entitled to practice law in a common law jurisdiction, cannot apply to sit for the New York Bar Exam but can apply for the California Bar Exam. Albeit, once they have qualified at the California Bar they are usually eligible to sit for the New York Bar Exam."

However rule 520.6(b)(2) of the NY Bar Regulations states:

"Qualifying to Sit for Bar Exam based on Admission in an English Common Law Jurisdiction and Successful Completion of a Law School/Law Office Study Program. Subdivision (b)(2) of part 520.6 permits certain applicants to qualify for the bar examination where: (1) the applicant has been admitted to practice law in a foreign country whose jurisprudence is based upon the principles of the English Common Law; and (2) the admission was based on a program of study in a law school and/or law office, that is recognized by the competent accrediting agency of the government of such other country; and (3) the combination of the law school and law office programs of study is durationally equivalent but yet substantively deficient under subdivision (b)(1)(i) of section 520.6; and (4) the applicant has also successfully completed a full-time or part-time program consisting of a minimum of 20 semester hours of credit, or the equivalent, in professional law subjects, which includes basic courses in American law, in an approved law school in the United States. Historically, applicants who may qualify under Section 520.6(b)(2) generally have been solicitors or barristers in English Common Law jurisdictions who do not have an LLB degree but who were admitted to practice in their foreign jurisdiction based on successful completion of either the Common Professional Examination course or the Bar Vocational Course, a practical skills course, and a training contract (i.e., articles), the aggregate of which satisfies the durational equivalency requirements.

"In order to qualify under 520.6(b)(2) the Board requires proof of the following in the form of original documents or copies certified by the issuing institutions: (1) an admission certificate from the competent accrediting agency of the government of the foreign jurisdiction; (2) transcripts of the law school programs confirming the dates of attendance and successful completion of the program(s); (3) a certificate or written statement verifying the successful completion of the law office study (i.e., clerkship or articles) and the dates of the employment; (4) a transcript from the U.S. law school confirming successful completion of the program of study described in 520.6(b)(2)."

Just wonder if you could clear up my confusion on this matter? You see I am somebody who has completed the common professional exam as opposed to the LLB. So it would appear from this rule that you do not have to complete the LLB but a CPE course will suffice.

Hi, I can send you some information regarding our courses. Our company is called 5Legal Training Ltd and we offer courses to prepare UK students for the New York Bar Exam.
If you would like further information - please visit www.5legal.com.

Let me know what questions you have.

Thanks!
Hi, I looked at your website which states the following:

"Graduates in UK/Europe who have a completed a law degree (UK LLB, or equivalent in Europe) are immediately eligible to apply to sit the New York Bar Exam.

"For those that have not completed a LLB, or equivalent, but have taken the Common Professional Examination (CPE), or equivalent in Europe, and are entitled to practice law in a common law jurisdiction, cannot apply to sit for the New York Bar Exam but can apply for the California Bar Exam. Albeit, once they have qualified at the California Bar they are usually eligible to sit for the New York Bar Exam."

However rule 520.6(b)(2) of the NY Bar Regulations states:

"Qualifying to Sit for Bar Exam based on Admission in an English Common Law Jurisdiction and Successful Completion of a Law School/Law Office Study Program. Subdivision (b)(2) of part 520.6 permits certain applicants to qualify for the bar examination where: (1) the applicant has been admitted to practice law in a foreign country whose jurisprudence is based upon the principles of the English Common Law; and (2) the admission was based on a program of study in a law school and/or law office, that is recognized by the competent accrediting agency of the government of such other country; and (3) the combination of the law school and law office programs of study is durationally equivalent but yet substantively deficient under subdivision (b)(1)(i) of section 520.6; and (4) the applicant has also successfully completed a full-time or part-time program consisting of a minimum of 20 semester hours of credit, or the equivalent, in professional law subjects, which includes basic courses in American law, in an approved law school in the United States. Historically, applicants who may qualify under Section 520.6(b)(2) generally have been solicitors or barristers in English Common Law jurisdictions who do not have an LLB degree but who were admitted to practice in their foreign jurisdiction based on successful completion of either the Common Professional Examination course or the Bar Vocational Course, a practical skills course, and a training contract (i.e., articles), the aggregate of which satisfies the durational equivalency requirements.

"In order to qualify under 520.6(b)(2) the Board requires proof of the following in the form of original documents or copies certified by the issuing institutions: (1) an admission certificate from the competent accrediting agency of the government of the foreign jurisdiction; (2) transcripts of the law school programs confirming the dates of attendance and successful completion of the program(s); (3) a certificate or written statement verifying the successful completion of the law office study (i.e., clerkship or articles) and the dates of the employment; (4) a transcript from the U.S. law school confirming successful completion of the program of study described in 520.6(b)(2)."

Just wonder if you could clear up my confusion on this matter? You see I am somebody who has completed the common professional exam as opposed to the LLB. So it would appear from this rule that you do not have to complete the LLB but a CPE course will suffice.

<blockquote>Hi, I can send you some information regarding our courses. Our company is called 5Legal Training Ltd and we offer courses to prepare UK students for the New York Bar Exam.
If you would like further information - please visit www.5legal.com.

Let me know what questions you have.

Thanks!</blockquote>
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5legal
Hello Jazzman,

You inspired me to write an article on the eligibility requirements for feorign lawyers wanting to sit the New York Bar Exam.

Here is a link to the article:
http://www.5legal.com/Web_Forms/Eligibility%20-%20Fully%20Explained%20-%2028.09.06.pdf

Let me knwo if you have any questions.
Hello Jazzman,

You inspired me to write an article on the eligibility requirements for feorign lawyers wanting to sit the New York Bar Exam.

Here is a link to the article:
http://www.5legal.com/Web_Forms/Eligibility%20-%20Fully%20Explained%20-%2028.09.06.pdf

Let me knwo if you have any questions.
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katxyz
Hi Jazzman,
The CPE/GDL is not enough to be eligible for the NY bar exam. Your problem is the durational requirement - you need to have a legal education that is equivalent in time, i.e. 3 years, to a US legal education. Yours will only be 2 years (GDL and LPC) so it's not enough. The "cure" (an expensive one) is 20 credits of study (aka an LLM) at an American Bar Association accredited law school (only in the USA)
I'm in the same position - currently doing LLM at Georgetown
Hi Jazzman,
The CPE/GDL is not enough to be eligible for the NY bar exam. Your problem is the durational requirement - you need to have a legal education that is equivalent in time, i.e. 3 years, to a US legal education. Yours will only be 2 years (GDL and LPC) so it's not enough. The "cure" (an expensive one) is 20 credits of study (aka an LLM) at an American Bar Association accredited law school (only in the USA)
I'm in the same position - currently doing LLM at Georgetown
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ptan54
Hi katxyz,

I'm surprised any US law school will recognise the CPE. I hold the CPE and am currently a trainee solicitor. I intend to take the NY bar exam after I'm done with my training contract, but like you I am not eligible. I am thinking of doing an LLM to "cure" the defect. I know LSE accepts CPE, but would that be of any use when I want to take NY Bar? Wouldn't I need at least a significant portion of my legal education to be in the USA? How did you convince Georgetown to recognise your CPE? Thanks.
Hi katxyz,

I'm surprised any US law school will recognise the CPE. I hold the CPE and am currently a trainee solicitor. I intend to take the NY bar exam after I'm done with my training contract, but like you I am not eligible. I am thinking of doing an LLM to "cure" the defect. I know LSE accepts CPE, but would that be of any use when I want to take NY Bar? Wouldn't I need at least a significant portion of my legal education to be in the USA? How did you convince Georgetown to recognise your CPE? Thanks.
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athilah
I was wondering how difficult it would be to study on my own for the new york bar and how long i would need? I have an LLB and will commence the legal practice course this september through the part time mode while i work part time. I wanted to study on my own for the new york bar at the same time
I was wondering how difficult it would be to study on my own for the new york bar and how long i would need? I have an LLB and will commence the legal practice course this september through the part time mode while i work part time. I wanted to study on my own for the new york bar at the same time
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rizpac
Hello, How are you doing? I have a friend who did study for the New Bar exam on his own. He found that consistent studying for about 6 months to a year is recommended. This time will be even longer if some of the material is hard to understand, then you will have to find a way to get clarification. However, taking a New York bar course will better your chances of successful completion on the first attempt. I would recommend taking out a few hours per day to go through the material in detail. Furthermore, make notes of what is not understood and then take a class and ask them to go over the material not understood.

Take care
Riz
Hello, How are you doing? I have a friend who did study for the New Bar exam on his own. He found that consistent studying for about 6 months to a year is recommended. This time will be even longer if some of the material is hard to understand, then you will have to find a way to get clarification. However, taking a New York bar course will better your chances of successful completion on the first attempt. I would recommend taking out a few hours per day to go through the material in detail. Furthermore, make notes of what is not understood and then take a class and ask them to go over the material not understood.

Take care
Riz
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fg
Perhaps we should clarify what is meant by "study on your own." Do you mean just buy some books online and try to learn everything or do you mean opting for one of the bar courses' self-study correspondence options? The latter option will provide you with practice exam questions, a study time table, and let you know which things you should priortize. I would definitely recommend the latter.
I found that the bar exam was basically one big cram session so studying over an entire year probably won't help you much since it is less about understanding than memorizing. Most of your work will be done in the intensive two month period before the exam.
I really recommend taking a course - it will give you a much better chance to succeed.
Perhaps we should clarify what is meant by "study on your own." Do you mean just buy some books online and try to learn everything or do you mean opting for one of the bar courses' self-study correspondence options? The latter option will provide you with practice exam questions, a study time table, and let you know which things you should priortize. I would definitely recommend the latter.
I found that the bar exam was basically one big cram session so studying over an entire year probably won't help you much since it is less about understanding than memorizing. Most of your work will be done in the intensive two month period before the exam.
I really recommend taking a course - it will give you a much better chance to succeed.
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I have an LLB (part-time, but need to attend lectures) and I'm going to take a full-time LPC this year. Am I eligible for applying for the NYC bar exam?
I have an LLB (part-time, but need to attend lectures) and I'm going to take a full-time LPC this year. Am I eligible for applying for the NYC bar exam?
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trollsoft
I just returned from the NY bar exam, and oddly enough an english lawyer was in the seat next to me. We also missed our connection and spent a few more hours together talking about such things. She took barbri and liked it a lot (I too took barbri but my opinion, as an American, is less relevant). She is already here in the US though, and I don't know if barbri has a course in the UK.

The most important thing to say is: under no circumstances should you study yourself, without materials specifically designed for the bar exam. It is theoretically possible to buy "subject" outlines and pass, but it's worth the money to have material that cuts out the stuff less relevant for the bar exam.

As to a lecture class or a "self study book based package." It's totally about how you learn best. If you're an audible learner then do the lectures, they're very efficient. However, if you're a visual learner then get the books and bar exam outlines. I ended up blowing off most lectures to just study the books myself because I don't learn anything I hear. Others found the lectures invaluable.

I have no opinion about which course. I liked barbri ok, not great, but ok. I assume they're all about the same in value. However, I would strongly suggest using one of them. Your saved time is worth more than the rather expensive price tag of the class.
I just returned from the NY bar exam, and oddly enough an english lawyer was in the seat next to me. We also missed our connection and spent a few more hours together talking about such things. She took barbri and liked it a lot (I too took barbri but my opinion, as an American, is less relevant). She is already here in the US though, and I don't know if barbri has a course in the UK.

The most important thing to say is: under no circumstances should you study yourself, without materials specifically designed for the bar exam. It is theoretically possible to buy "subject" outlines and pass, but it's worth the money to have material that cuts out the stuff less relevant for the bar exam.

As to a lecture class or a "self study book based package." It's totally about how you learn best. If you're an audible learner then do the lectures, they're very efficient. However, if you're a visual learner then get the books and bar exam outlines. I ended up blowing off most lectures to just study the books myself because I don't learn anything I hear. Others found the lectures invaluable.

I have no opinion about which course. I liked barbri ok, not great, but ok. I assume they're all about the same in value. However, I would strongly suggest using one of them. Your saved time is worth more than the rather expensive price tag of the class.
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Craig
Holborn College in London conducts coaching classes to prepare students for New York Bar Exam. I think they charge GBP 2650 (approx $5300) for these classes.

http://www.flexible-learning.co.uk/pages/courses/nybar.html

Someone also has also commented about going to USA to do get a LL.M from an American Law School...Well, Notre Dame Law School has a branch in London where students can do a LL.M so it is possible to get a LL.M degree from an American Law School without specifically going to USA for this purpose.

http://law.nd.edu/london/llm/index.html


Holborn College in London conducts coaching classes to prepare students for New York Bar Exam. I think they charge GBP 2650 (approx $5300) for these classes.

http://www.flexible-learning.co.uk/pages/courses/nybar.html

Someone also has also commented about going to USA to do get a LL.M from an American Law School...Well, Notre Dame Law School has a branch in London where students can do a LL.M so it is possible to get a LL.M degree from an American Law School without specifically going to USA for this purpose.

http://law.nd.edu/london/llm/index.html
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trollsoft
To the question of: Should I get an LLM to pass the bar exam? Probably not.

If an LLM will help your career then great, but it's not worth the money or time as a bar prep course. First off, most schools only let you take one or up to a few first year courses, so you're not even going to be able to take all the most important bar subjects. Then, you could take all subjects that are on the bar, and having taken those classes would give you an edge on the bar exam, but not enough that you wouldn't still have to take the "bar prep" course. So your choice is really LLM + bar prep course or just bar prep course with extra effort. The only other benefit is that only NY and California accept some foreign law degrees, and are two of the hardest exams in the country. An LLM would allow you to take the exam of an easier state (but then you could only work in that state or the District of Columbia).

When deciding if an LLM is a good idea, "ability to pass the bar exam" should be a small plus factor, not a major plus factor.
To the question of: Should I get an LLM to pass the bar exam? Probably not.

If an LLM will help your career then great, but it's not worth the money or time as a bar prep course. First off, most schools only let you take one or up to a few first year courses, so you're not even going to be able to take all the most important bar subjects. Then, you could take all subjects that are on the bar, and having taken those classes would give you an edge on the bar exam, but not enough that you wouldn't still have to take the "bar prep" course. So your choice is really LLM + bar prep course or just bar prep course with extra effort. The only other benefit is that only NY and California accept some foreign law degrees, and are two of the hardest exams in the country. An LLM would allow you to take the exam of an easier state (but then you could only work in that state or the District of Columbia).

When deciding if an LLM is a good idea, "ability to pass the bar exam" should be a small plus factor, not a major plus factor.
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melody
I am hoping to take the NY bar exam in February 2008. I live in London and am just about to register for a prep course - most likely barbri, but am open to other suggestions.

I did a two-year Law conversion/LLM at an English university and completed the Bar Vocational Course. So my law degree was one year less in duration than a regular LLB, yet one year longer than a CPE or GDL. Can anyone give me advice about whether or not I am eligible to actually take the exam?

I am hoping to take the NY bar exam in February 2008. I live in London and am just about to register for a prep course - most likely barbri, but am open to other suggestions.

I did a two-year Law conversion/LLM at an English university and completed the Bar Vocational Course. So my law degree was one year less in duration than a regular LLB, yet one year longer than a CPE or GDL. Can anyone give me advice about whether or not I am eligible to actually take the exam?

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MM25
I am from London too. I wanted to complete the NY Bar, I heard that its really really hard is it worth it and if so where can i DO IT IN London. Will I HAVE to travel to the US to take the exams?.
I am from London too. I wanted to complete the NY Bar, I heard that its really really hard is it worth it and if so where can i DO IT IN London. Will I HAVE to travel to the US to take the exams?.
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trollsoft
I am from London too. I wanted to complete the NY Bar, I heard that its really really hard is it worth it and if so where can i DO IT IN London. Will I HAVE to travel to the US to take the exams?.


Hard is relative. I assume you were educated in the UK, so you speak English and was educated in the laws from which ours derive. That's quite an advantage. Now it's just a question of how smart are you and how much time do you want to put into learning the stuff? I thought the exam was not that hard (but keep in mind I don't get my results for 10 more days and thinking it is easy is either a really good sign or a REALLY bad sign).

You may be able to do a review course in London, but you must take the exam in NY, specifically Albany (so don't expect a direct flight from London).

Good luck.
<blockquote>I am from London too. I wanted to complete the NY Bar, I heard that its really really hard is it worth it and if so where can i DO IT IN London. Will I HAVE to travel to the US to take the exams?. </blockquote>

Hard is relative. I assume you were educated in the UK, so you speak English and was educated in the laws from which ours derive. That's quite an advantage. Now it's just a question of how smart are you and how much time do you want to put into learning the stuff? I thought the exam was not that hard (but keep in mind I don't get my results for 10 more days and thinking it is easy is either a really good sign or a REALLY bad sign).

You may be able to do a review course in London, but you must take the exam in NY, specifically Albany (so don't expect a direct flight from London).

Good luck.
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MM25
Good luck I am sure that you have done well.

Thanks for your advice, I thought I could take the NY Bar exam in London, how annoying, now I will have ot go over there!! Yes i studied law in the UK, for three years. I just wanted to find out about it. I am seriously considering it. Did you have ot pay alot of money ofr the books, did you self sutdy? or did you got there for the course?

What do you suggest?
I dont have alot of £ and wanted to take the NY bar in the cheapest way possible
Good luck I am sure that you have done well.

Thanks for your advice, I thought I could take the NY Bar exam in London, how annoying, now I will have ot go over there!! Yes i studied law in the UK, for three years. I just wanted to find out about it. I am seriously considering it. Did you have ot pay alot of money ofr the books, did you self sutdy? or did you got there for the course?

What do you suggest?
I dont have alot of £ and wanted to take the NY bar in the cheapest way possible
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trollsoft
I did end up passing, so that's good.

You'll definitely have to take it in NY. No state administers their bar outside the state. I personally did not pay a lot of money for my books, my firm paid like $3,000 I think. I would recommend that if you're serious you get some money together. You will need review books (probably barbri). The books plus lectures are $3,000, but if you're a book learner (not an audible learner) then you can get the books off ebay or something and save a lot of money. We get $175 to return the books, so they go for more than that, but nowhere near $3,000. All you need it the short summaries and the example essay/multiple choice questions (mostly the essays for the ny portion). Other than saving 1-2k on getting your books off ebay, you're still looking at the transatlantic flight, hotel, etc. Bar is late july and late feb. Flights in late Feb. are probably cheaper.

Not withstanding getting a job that will pay these expenses for you, that's the best advice I have.

Good luck.

-john
I did end up passing, so that's good.

You'll definitely have to take it in NY. No state administers their bar outside the state. I personally did not pay a lot of money for my books, my firm paid like $3,000 I think. I would recommend that if you're serious you get some money together. You will need review books (probably barbri). The books plus lectures are $3,000, but if you're a book learner (not an audible learner) then you can get the books off ebay or something and save a lot of money. We get $175 to return the books, so they go for more than that, but nowhere near $3,000. All you need it the short summaries and the example essay/multiple choice questions (mostly the essays for the ny portion). Other than saving 1-2k on getting your books off ebay, you're still looking at the transatlantic flight, hotel, etc. Bar is late july and late feb. Flights in late Feb. are probably cheaper.

Not withstanding getting a job that will pay these expenses for you, that's the best advice I have.

Good luck.

-john
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