Melbourne vs. Monash


dste6
Pretend you were a graduate student and were just offered places at both Melb and Monash JD programs. Which one would you take, and why?

I'm interested in tangible benefits that either school can offer over the other. I don't want to get bogged down in a debate about prestige; I'm aware that both law schools have a good reputation.
Pretend you were a graduate student and were just offered places at both Melb and Monash JD programs. Which one would you take, and why?

I'm interested in tangible benefits that either school can offer over the other. I don't want to get bogged down in a debate about prestige; I'm aware that both law schools have a good reputation.
quote
Vesperia
Again, I don't see why someone would ever choose Monash over Melbourne, assuming of course that they have offers for both.
Again, I don't see why someone would ever choose Monash over Melbourne, assuming of course that they have offers for both.
quote
dste6
What brings you to that conclusion, Vesperia?
What brings you to that conclusion, Vesperia?
quote
Vesperia
1) Both are in Melbourne, so location is an irrelevant point to consider. Personally:N/A

2) You might consider the fees perhaps? Difference in costs and scholarships might sway your decision one way or another. Regardless of fees, personally: Melbourne

3) Academic reputation a factor? Both are in the Group of Eight (Go8) so both can be said to be solid universities. However, Melbourne tend to be one of the "top" universities in Australia, cited from various sources. Again, personally: Melbourne.

4) If I am not mistaken, Melbourne Law School is the oldest Law School in Australia. It has a traditional prestige, one where I would only put alongside the University of Sydney and ANU.

There might be other factors, but these would be the factors that I would take into account personally. I have a few friends studying Law in Melbourne and they have only good things to say about it. That is about it really.
1) Both are in Melbourne, so location is an irrelevant point to consider. Personally:N/A

2) You might consider the fees perhaps? Difference in costs and scholarships might sway your decision one way or another. Regardless of fees, personally: Melbourne

3) Academic reputation a factor? Both are in the Group of Eight (Go8) so both can be said to be solid universities. However, Melbourne tend to be one of the "top" universities in Australia, cited from various sources. Again, personally: Melbourne.

4) If I am not mistaken, Melbourne Law School is the oldest Law School in Australia. It has a traditional prestige, one where I would only put alongside the University of Sydney and ANU.

There might be other factors, but these would be the factors that I would take into account personally. I have a few friends studying Law in Melbourne and they have only good things to say about it. That is about it really.
quote
dste6
I expressly stated that I was not interested in arguments about prestige and reputation. I was after tangible benefits offered by either school or program that could set them apart from each other. Meaning differences in: class sizes, facilities, co-curricular activities, journals, clinical experience programs, international programs.

You have given me 2 arguments are stalemate and irrelevant by your own admission, and 2 that rest on reputation and prestige. This is precisely the information that i requested against, and do not find useful. Why?

Because its common knowledge that in VIctoria, hiring law firms do not care either your from Melb or Monash, as long as you from either.

I'm disappointed that you either didn't read my question or disregarded what I was clearly asking.
I expressly stated that I was not interested in arguments about prestige and reputation. I was after tangible benefits offered by either school or program that could set them apart from each other. Meaning differences in: class sizes, facilities, co-curricular activities, journals, clinical experience programs, international programs.

You have given me 2 arguments are stalemate and irrelevant by your own admission, and 2 that rest on reputation and prestige. This is precisely the information that i requested against, and do not find useful. Why?

Because its common knowledge that in VIctoria, hiring law firms do not care either your from Melb or Monash, as long as you from either.

I'm disappointed that you either didn't read my question or disregarded what I was clearly asking.
quote
Jonas

I'm disappointed that you either didn't read my question or disregarded what I was clearly asking.


Your last question actually was: "What brings you to that conclusion, Vesperia?"
<blockquote>
I'm disappointed that you either didn't read my question or disregarded what I was clearly asking.</blockquote>

Your last question actually was: "What brings you to that conclusion, Vesperia?"
quote
dste6
That was a request for her to clarify her initial answer, because in the question to which i was referring, and the point of this entire topic was: "Which one would you take, and WHY?"...in her initial answer she didn't bother to include the 'WHY', which to me is the most crucial part.

What is wrong with you people? I come here with a specific and polite question, and what I receive is ineptness and snobbery. I expected more from an international, graduate level forum.

Now, this has clearly become unpleasant for everyone, so if no one has any actual information to contribute, lets just drop it.
That was a request for her to clarify her initial answer, because in the question to which i was referring, and the point of this entire topic was: "Which one would you take, and WHY?"...in her initial answer she didn't bother to include the 'WHY', which to me is the most crucial part.

What is wrong with you people? I come here with a specific and polite question, and what I receive is ineptness and snobbery. I expected more from an international, graduate level forum.

Now, this has clearly become unpleasant for everyone, so if no one has any actual information to contribute, lets just drop it.
quote
Gregor2009
Hello!

This thread is getting a little tense - I have attended graduate law courses at both University of Melbourne and Monash University and have included in this post my personal comments/opinions to see if they are helpful to dste6. I must indicate that I have not attended any compulsory JD courses at either university so what I say is based on LLM courses (with JD students attending them):

1. The level of classes at University of Melbourne and Monash Universities are both equally academically rigorous so this wouldn't assist you in picking schools either way. What I have personally found (in my limited enrolment of classes) is that Monash University tends to teach "black letter law" and is highly theoretical while University of Melbourne places slightly more emphasis on class discussions and class interaction. Personally, I am used to "lecture" style theoretical teaching so my preference would be for Monash University on this. I don't have the habit of reading lecture notes/cases prior to seminars so I wasn't able to interact as good as I could (I have no one to blame but myself though). Bottomline, the style of classes in Monash University was a better "fit" for me.

2. In terms of location, I think Monash and Melbourne are both equally competitive. Monash has their classes right smack in the middle of the city so if you are working then it'd cater for you. Melbourne University's campus is not too far away but it would involve some travelling time if you are in the city. Monash University has a slight edge in this respect. Of course, if you are heavily dependant on library facilites then Uni Melb is the way to go because their dedicated law building has all the resources in one place (easier to access before/after class).

3. Timetables - I think Monash University caters more towards working professionals in terms of their timetabling. I understand that JD students can also study the program part-time but I am unsure if Uni Melb students can do the same. You will have to check this out. If you are intending to study full-time then I think the Uni Melb program would cater better to you because the courses would be spreaded out over the week like a standard law school students rather than cramped into Thursdays/Fridays. Again, please check this.

4. Electives - My impression is that Uni Melb has a larger range of electives available because of their extremely solid LLM program. I am not sure if JD students have their own set of electives over at UniMelb or if JD students still choose electives with LLM students but this is a point worth considering (I am only familiar with Uni Melb's old JD program). For Monash, it'd be a good opportunity for you to mix and interact with LLM students while completing electives - you might make connections with practising lawyers and important networks.

Of course, there is the issue of prestige, ranking, costs, employment prospects etc which isn't your key concerns. On these aspects, I would think that the obvious answer is University of Melbourne would be the better option to go. However, Monash University has its own unique set of plus points on other elements as well. It depends on what your circumstances are!

On the aspects you have raised, my superficial analysis is:
class sizes - I am not sure about the sizes of the new JD program at Uni Melb so I can't comment. Monash University's JD classes are relatively small and dedicated.
facilities - Uni Melb has better facilities - a dedicated law building. Monash University's chambers in city is convenient for classes but inconvenient in terms of library facilities etc.
co-curricular activities, journals, clinical experience programs, international programs. - I would presume Uni Melb since it is more or less catered for full time students.

I hope this helps but if it doesn't, please don't yell at me!!


Cheers,
Greg
Hello!

This thread is getting a little tense - I have attended graduate law courses at both University of Melbourne and Monash University and have included in this post my personal comments/opinions to see if they are helpful to dste6. I must indicate that I have not attended any compulsory JD courses at either university so what I say is based on LLM courses (with JD students attending them):

1. The level of classes at University of Melbourne and Monash Universities are both equally academically rigorous so this wouldn't assist you in picking schools either way. What I have personally found (in my limited enrolment of classes) is that Monash University tends to teach "black letter law" and is highly theoretical while University of Melbourne places slightly more emphasis on class discussions and class interaction. Personally, I am used to "lecture" style theoretical teaching so my preference would be for Monash University on this. I don't have the habit of reading lecture notes/cases prior to seminars so I wasn't able to interact as good as I could (I have no one to blame but myself though). Bottomline, the style of classes in Monash University was a better "fit" for me.

2. In terms of location, I think Monash and Melbourne are both equally competitive. Monash has their classes right smack in the middle of the city so if you are working then it'd cater for you. Melbourne University's campus is not too far away but it would involve some travelling time if you are in the city. Monash University has a slight edge in this respect. Of course, if you are heavily dependant on library facilites then Uni Melb is the way to go because their dedicated law building has all the resources in one place (easier to access before/after class).

3. Timetables - I think Monash University caters more towards working professionals in terms of their timetabling. I understand that JD students can also study the program part-time but I am unsure if Uni Melb students can do the same. You will have to check this out. If you are intending to study full-time then I think the Uni Melb program would cater better to you because the courses would be spreaded out over the week like a standard law school students rather than cramped into Thursdays/Fridays. Again, please check this.

4. Electives - My impression is that Uni Melb has a larger range of electives available because of their extremely solid LLM program. I am not sure if JD students have their own set of electives over at UniMelb or if JD students still choose electives with LLM students but this is a point worth considering (I am only familiar with Uni Melb's old JD program). For Monash, it'd be a good opportunity for you to mix and interact with LLM students while completing electives - you might make connections with practising lawyers and important networks.

Of course, there is the issue of prestige, ranking, costs, employment prospects etc which isn't your key concerns. On these aspects, I would think that the obvious answer is University of Melbourne would be the better option to go. However, Monash University has its own unique set of plus points on other elements as well. It depends on what your circumstances are!

On the aspects you have raised, my superficial analysis is:
class sizes - I am not sure about the sizes of the new JD program at Uni Melb so I can't comment. Monash University's JD classes are relatively small and dedicated.
facilities - Uni Melb has better facilities - a dedicated law building. Monash University's chambers in city is convenient for classes but inconvenient in terms of library facilities etc.
co-curricular activities, journals, clinical experience programs, international programs. - I would presume Uni Melb since it is more or less catered for full time students.

I hope this helps but if it doesn't, please don't yell at me!!


Cheers,
Greg
quote
dste6
ahaha! Greg believe me, I wouldn't yell at you. You've made a genuine effort to help a fellow out. Thanks a lot for the response mate, I really appreciate it. I've been listening to so many people authoritatively offering their advice when they really don't have anything of substance to say, I think I've gotten a bit sick of it and just need to make a decision.
However, It's really refreshing to hear from someone who's been to both schools and can give some realistic impressions.

I think a big selling point for me will be which can offer better opportunities to do internships. I was surprised that Monash doesn't seem to mention any Victorian Bar or Court internship programs, considering how close Monash Law Chambers are to the courts.

Did you tend to need the library a lot for your units? Also, did you notice any difference in age demographic between Melb and Monash programs?

Again many thanks, Greg
ahaha! Greg believe me, I wouldn't yell at you. You've made a genuine effort to help a fellow out. Thanks a lot for the response mate, I really appreciate it. I've been listening to so many people authoritatively offering their advice when they really don't have anything of substance to say, I think I've gotten a bit sick of it and just need to make a decision.
However, It's really refreshing to hear from someone who's been to both schools and can give some realistic impressions.

I think a big selling point for me will be which can offer better opportunities to do internships. I was surprised that Monash doesn't seem to mention any Victorian Bar or Court internship programs, considering how close Monash Law Chambers are to the courts.

Did you tend to need the library a lot for your units? Also, did you notice any difference in age demographic between Melb and Monash programs?

Again many thanks, Greg
quote
Gregor2009
Oh hey,

No worries - glad to be able to assist. Again, what I have said was my personal observations/comments so others might hold a different view!

As for internships etc, I think the key issue is that Monash University's JD courses are conducted on a trimester basis compared to University of Melbourne's semester basis - thus there are shorter breaks in between each term at Monash University (and the difficulty to fit internships in there). However, with that said, I think the timetabling of Monash University would be more convenient/conducive for an internship during the study periods because classes are conducted mostly on Thursdays and Fridays (leaving Monday - Wednesday free).

Internships offered via universities are generally more competitive anyway so you might actually end up on the route of sourcing/applying for internships independently.

As for libraries, I think it depends on individuals. I didn't rely much on libraries while attending law school because I rely heavily on electronic journals. However, i must say that the presence of a library helped me in many ways. It is just convenient to be able to step into one (without travelling too far) before/after class to grab a textbook or something!

Personally, I think it is fantastic that you got into both schools and are actually considering other factors other than prestige and rank. However, my opinion would be to go with Uni Melb, because as cliche as it sounds, most employers would go for the prestige/ranking. Monash University no doubt has the "edge" in many aspects but at the end of the day, if you are putting in such a huge monetary and time investment, why not go for the one with better international standing? In terms of fees, I have heard that Uni Melb has some CSP places for domestic students (not too sure about Monash).

Just my opinion, i know some would disagree though.

Cheers,
G
Oh hey,

No worries - glad to be able to assist. Again, what I have said was my personal observations/comments so others might hold a different view!

As for internships etc, I think the key issue is that Monash University's JD courses are conducted on a trimester basis compared to University of Melbourne's semester basis - thus there are shorter breaks in between each term at Monash University (and the difficulty to fit internships in there). However, with that said, I think the timetabling of Monash University would be more convenient/conducive for an internship during the study periods because classes are conducted mostly on Thursdays and Fridays (leaving Monday - Wednesday free).

Internships offered via universities are generally more competitive anyway so you might actually end up on the route of sourcing/applying for internships independently.

As for libraries, I think it depends on individuals. I didn't rely much on libraries while attending law school because I rely heavily on electronic journals. However, i must say that the presence of a library helped me in many ways. It is just convenient to be able to step into one (without travelling too far) before/after class to grab a textbook or something!

Personally, I think it is fantastic that you got into both schools and are actually considering other factors other than prestige and rank. However, my opinion would be to go with Uni Melb, because as cliche as it sounds, most employers would go for the prestige/ranking. Monash University no doubt has the "edge" in many aspects but at the end of the day, if you are putting in such a huge monetary and time investment, why not go for the one with better international standing? In terms of fees, I have heard that Uni Melb has some CSP places for domestic students (not too sure about Monash).

Just my opinion, i know some would disagree though.

Cheers,
G
quote

Reply to Post

Related Law Schools

Melbourne, Australia 165 Followers 96 Discussions
Melbourne, Australia 29 Followers 51 Discussions