Competitive GPA for JD/LLB


totzie
Hi everyone,

I\'m a Canadian student who is about to complete my undergraduate BBA degree. I have applied to USYD, UTS, ANU, and UNSW for entry in semester 1 of 2010.

Does anyone know what a competitive GPA would be for getting into the JD / LLB (graduate entry) program? The websites don\'t offer much information regarding this.

Also, do you guys know if the assessment of international students will be less stringent? I\'ve been told that it is, because universities generally want to attract international students who pay more money than local students.

If anyone can provide more information on any of the questions above, that would be greatly appreciated.

Warmly,
Totz
Hi everyone,

I\'m a Canadian student who is about to complete my undergraduate BBA degree. I have applied to USYD, UTS, ANU, and UNSW for entry in semester 1 of 2010.

Does anyone know what a competitive GPA would be for getting into the JD / LLB (graduate entry) program? The websites don\'t offer much information regarding this.

Also, do you guys know if the assessment of international students will be less stringent? I\'ve been told that it is, because universities generally want to attract international students who pay more money than local students.

If anyone can provide more information on any of the questions above, that would be greatly appreciated.

Warmly,
Totz
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notheless
hi i'm a foreign student who already got the JD offer from unsw, in my personal experience, take myself as a example, i'm from a 211 projcet school in china and my average score is 80+(centesimal system), i got the offer successfully.In addition i past the domestic bar exam which may ehance my condition, however in terms of the GPA things i was told by all the people around that the scores mentioned above is enough.

Moreover, since JD is a postgraduate program will there be any tuition exemption for AU citizens? as far as i know there's not much difference concerning tuition between citizens and foreigners ???

Furturemore i'm still concerned the students' quality reciurted from non-english-speaking countries in UNSW JD, its ielts is too low. And it's useless to email the officer to inquiry the assessment of applicant, what i got is just some official response such as ielts scores doesn't absolutely equal students' study performance, and ask me to read the flawed "university guide". But i recommend you that try to email the officer again,and share us what you got.
hi i'm a foreign student who already got the JD offer from unsw, in my personal experience, take myself as a example, i'm from a 211 projcet school in china and my average score is 80+(centesimal system), i got the offer successfully.In addition i past the domestic bar exam which may ehance my condition, however in terms of the GPA things i was told by all the people around that the scores mentioned above is enough.

Moreover, since JD is a postgraduate program will there be any tuition exemption for AU citizens? as far as i know there's not much difference concerning tuition between citizens and foreigners ???

Furturemore i'm still concerned the students' quality reciurted from non-english-speaking countries in UNSW JD, its ielts is too low. And it's useless to email the officer to inquiry the assessment of applicant, what i got is just some official response such as ielts scores doesn't absolutely equal students' study performance, and ask me to read the flawed "university guide". But i recommend you that try to email the officer again,and share us what you got.
quote
totzie
Hi there,

I'm not sure how the centesimal system correlates with the GPA system of North American universities, but my university grades its students using a 4 point scale, with 4 being the maximum a student can get.

I read on the USYD website that a 2.8 GPA would be adequate for the JD program. Is that really the case? USYD is a top tier school, with a good reputation among Australians, but that GPA by North American standards is not top tier. I am quite skeptical about what the website is telling me. LOL Is it really possible to get into USYD with that GPA????????

I think tuition is relatively similar for international students and Australian nationals in most graduate programs, so I am not too concerned with the monetary aspect. Also, I come from an English speaking country, so I can't comment on any of the English proficiency tests you're required to submit. Sorry about that.

Also, have you already decided to accept the offer from UNSW? How come you've already got an offer? I submitted my application in just over a week ago, so I still haven't heard anything back from them. How long did it take for you to get a response?
Hi there,

I'm not sure how the centesimal system correlates with the GPA system of North American universities, but my university grades its students using a 4 point scale, with 4 being the maximum a student can get.

I read on the USYD website that a 2.8 GPA would be adequate for the JD program. Is that really the case? USYD is a top tier school, with a good reputation among Australians, but that GPA by North American standards is not top tier. I am quite skeptical about what the website is telling me. LOL Is it really possible to get into USYD with that GPA????????

I think tuition is relatively similar for international students and Australian nationals in most graduate programs, so I am not too concerned with the monetary aspect. Also, I come from an English speaking country, so I can't comment on any of the English proficiency tests you're required to submit. Sorry about that.

Also, have you already decided to accept the offer from UNSW? How come you've already got an offer? I submitted my application in just over a week ago, so I still haven't heard anything back from them. How long did it take for you to get a response?
quote
vicjess
Hi Totzie,
I'm wondering much the same system. I did my first undergrad in the US and am currently completing a second in an unrelated field at Monash. I'm planning on applying for the Melbourne JD program for 2011, but don't really know what the expectations are for admission.

I've seen no GPA estimates, but agree that 2.8 sounds VERY low. I guess a passing grade here for an undergrad is only 50 (which is a 1 on the GPA scale). But I would still expect that a school like Sydney would require a minimum Distinction average (which is a little over 3).

I'd love to know the Melbourne and Monash minimum GPAs if anyone has that info.
Hi Totzie,
I'm wondering much the same system. I did my first undergrad in the US and am currently completing a second in an unrelated field at Monash. I'm planning on applying for the Melbourne JD program for 2011, but don't really know what the expectations are for admission.

I've seen no GPA estimates, but agree that 2.8 sounds VERY low. I guess a passing grade here for an undergrad is only 50 (which is a 1 on the GPA scale). But I would still expect that a school like Sydney would require a minimum Distinction average (which is a little over 3).

I'd love to know the Melbourne and Monash minimum GPAs if anyone has that info.
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notheless
not yet, i'm still waiting for another one, anyway wish you good luck!
not yet, i'm still waiting for another one, anyway wish you good luck!
quote
Hey Totzie. I'm also a Canadian applying to Aus JD and Graduate LLB programs. I applied with a GPA of about 3 with an Honours BA in Political Science. I've gotten an early acceptance offer into the UTS JD program but haven't heard from USyd, UNSW or ANU yet. From what I've read the number of offers that go out in the early rounds from the top schools are rather low. I think that the majority of the offers go out in the first week of January, so you'll probably be waiting for a little longer. Keep your fingers crossed I guess and wait.

You also may have been a little late to catch the last round of early admissions if you only sent your applications in at the beginning of November, but I'm not quite sure.
Hey Totzie. I'm also a Canadian applying to Aus JD and Graduate LLB programs. I applied with a GPA of about 3 with an Honours BA in Political Science. I've gotten an early acceptance offer into the UTS JD program but haven't heard from USyd, UNSW or ANU yet. From what I've read the number of offers that go out in the early rounds from the top schools are rather low. I think that the majority of the offers go out in the first week of January, so you'll probably be waiting for a little longer. Keep your fingers crossed I guess and wait.

You also may have been a little late to catch the last round of early admissions if you only sent your applications in at the beginning of November, but I'm not quite sure.
quote
Umm... am I missing something?! Is that post from "notheless" for real??!
Umm... am I missing something?! Is that post from "notheless" for real??!
quote
notheless
the situation about myself is true , the thing i worry about is just my assuming...
the situation about myself is true , the thing i worry about is just my assuming...
quote
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
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notheless
BAHAHAHAHAHAHA
??
are you an AU JD applicant as well??
<blockquote>BAHAHAHAHAHAHA</blockquote>??
are you an AU JD applicant as well??
quote
[Previous post removed with apologies to all]
[Previous post removed with apologies to all]
quote
I got into the UNSW JD program and I'm international from the US. Basically they knock off about 1 - 1.5 from your US GPA to equal the Aussie standard. A 50 to pass in Australia is equivalent to a 70 to pass in the US. I applied with a 3.5 GPA and got my offer in late December. Just know that to get a Credit mark in Oz (65%+) in a degree like the JD takes heaps of hard work. I did my first semester of law at UTS and it was damn hard to get my marks up past the 75% mark. You get there, but it takes quite a a bit of hard work and application. Don't think that because they estimate that a 2.8 GPA will get you in for USYD that it's a low standard. That is equal to about 3.5 - 3.9 in the US.

I spoke with my Fed Con professor about the grading system in Oz and he laughed that most North American students cry when they get their first Aussie marks back. He said, "We have a little more of a realistic marking system so when you get a 75% you know you did damn well."

Further, as for the previous post by melbsolicitor; you sir are why Aussies are perceived as racist overseas. I know you might not really care about what a bunch of us "foreigners" think about you, but it matters when the international student market is amongst the most profitable export for your nation. If you are a real solicitor, you may have forgotten why you got into the law in the first place judging from the crass remarks you made earlier. Linguistic performance on the fly has little bearing on actual intelligence. Non-native speakers can improve their English, why don't you improve your snotty attitude?
I got into the UNSW JD program and I'm international from the US. Basically they knock off about 1 - 1.5 from your US GPA to equal the Aussie standard. A 50 to pass in Australia is equivalent to a 70 to pass in the US. I applied with a 3.5 GPA and got my offer in late December. Just know that to get a Credit mark in Oz (65%+) in a degree like the JD takes heaps of hard work. I did my first semester of law at UTS and it was damn hard to get my marks up past the 75% mark. You get there, but it takes quite a a bit of hard work and application. Don't think that because they estimate that a 2.8 GPA will get you in for USYD that it's a low standard. That is equal to about 3.5 - 3.9 in the US.

I spoke with my Fed Con professor about the grading system in Oz and he laughed that most North American students cry when they get their first Aussie marks back. He said, "We have a little more of a realistic marking system so when you get a 75% you know you did damn well."

Further, as for the previous post by melbsolicitor; you sir are why Aussies are perceived as racist overseas. I know you might not really care about what a bunch of us "foreigners" think about you, but it matters when the international student market is amongst the most profitable export for your nation. If you are a real solicitor, you may have forgotten why you got into the law in the first place judging from the crass remarks you made earlier. Linguistic performance on the fly has little bearing on actual intelligence. Non-native speakers can improve their English, why don't you improve your snotty attitude?
quote
bubz
Hi guys,

I have recently completed my LLB degree from an Australian University. I am currently completing the Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice and will be able to practice as a registered solicitor in 2 months.

I am interested in practicing law in the US, particularly, the Michigan or NY area. Can anyone advise me as to what I should do to enable me to practice law in the US having obtained my LLB degree from an Australian University ?

What are the procedures and requirements for Aussie LLB students to practice as lawyers in the US?

Am I able to sit the bar exam straight away or do I need to do some further formal education in the US, such as LLM?

Is our law degree recognized there?
Will I have to do any additional subjects?

I also heard there is a really good bar program for Aussie students wanting to practice in the US does anyone know what this is called?

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!
Hi guys,

I have recently completed my LLB degree from an Australian University. I am currently completing the Graduate Diploma in Legal Practice and will be able to practice as a registered solicitor in 2 months.

I am interested in practicing law in the US, particularly, the Michigan or NY area. Can anyone advise me as to what I should do to enable me to practice law in the US having obtained my LLB degree from an Australian University ?

What are the procedures and requirements for Aussie LLB students to practice as lawyers in the US?

Am I able to sit the bar exam straight away or do I need to do some further formal education in the US, such as LLM?

Is our law degree recognized there?
Will I have to do any additional subjects?

I also heard there is a really good bar program for Aussie students wanting to practice in the US does anyone know what this is called?

Your help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!!
quote
bubz
Just wanted to add that I know that it is not necessary to do LLM to practice in NY and it is a matter of passing the bar exam but what about Michigan? Is anyone familiar with the process here?
Thanks
Just wanted to add that I know that it is not necessary to do LLM to practice in NY and it is a matter of passing the bar exam but what about Michigan? Is anyone familiar with the process here?
Thanks
quote
Each US state has its own requirements and regulations with regards to recognising qualifications from other jurisdictions. Good thing is both Aus and US are common law jurisdictions so you may only need to take a few "bridging" courses (most typically Constitutional Law and a few others). Then you must pass the BAR exam for the jurisdiction in which you wish to practise. Some unis in Aus prepare their students for practise overseas. UNSW in particular offers such bridging courses and BAR exam prep. Although I've been assured by my Fed Con professor that the NSW BAR exam is more difficult than NY's.

Just ask your professors and your faculty from where you graduated if they can offer you any suggestions as to where to go to get your qualifications "filled in" for overseas practise in the US.

LLB shouldn't be a big deal. They usually have JD students in the US but lots of Canadians come with LLBs so I wouldn't worry about the particular degree, just the bridging courses.

However, you should think well before you do something like this because it's a rather big investment (not only in time but also in money).

Anyone else that can chime in with experience in this situation?
Each US state has its own requirements and regulations with regards to recognising qualifications from other jurisdictions. Good thing is both Aus and US are common law jurisdictions so you may only need to take a few "bridging" courses (most typically Constitutional Law and a few others). Then you must pass the BAR exam for the jurisdiction in which you wish to practise. Some unis in Aus prepare their students for practise overseas. UNSW in particular offers such bridging courses and BAR exam prep. Although I've been assured by my Fed Con professor that the NSW BAR exam is more difficult than NY's.

Just ask your professors and your faculty from where you graduated if they can offer you any suggestions as to where to go to get your qualifications "filled in" for overseas practise in the US.

LLB shouldn't be a big deal. They usually have JD students in the US but lots of Canadians come with LLBs so I wouldn't worry about the particular degree, just the bridging courses.

However, you should think well before you do something like this because it's a rather big investment (not only in time but also in money).

Anyone else that can chime in with experience in this situation?
quote
bubz
Hi
Thanks for your prompt response, I appreciate it!
Just wanted to confirm what do you mean by 'NSW BAR exam is more difficult than NY's'?

NSW does not have any bar exams, in fact Australia does not have any bar exams, over here after you graduate from your law degree you are required to complete the Graduate Dip in Legal Practice ( 6 month course) to enable you to practice here (as oppose to bar exam requirements in the US)

Also can you please tell me a bit more about the NSW course? Do you mean the UNSW helps Aus law grads prepare for bar exams in the US?

Thanks!
Hi
Thanks for your prompt response, I appreciate it!
Just wanted to confirm what do you mean by 'NSW BAR exam is more difficult than NY's'?

NSW does not have any bar exams, in fact Australia does not have any bar exams, over here after you graduate from your law degree you are required to complete the Graduate Dip in Legal Practice ( 6 month course) to enable you to practice here (as oppose to bar exam requirements in the US)

Also can you please tell me a bit more about the NSW course? Do you mean the UNSW helps Aus law grads prepare for bar exams in the US?

Thanks!
quote
You don't have to write a bar exam to practice as a solicitor in Australia but to become a barrister you do need to write a set of bar exams amongst other things. You can check out the requirements at the NSW Bar Association website. www.nswbar.asn.au
You don't have to write a bar exam to practice as a solicitor in Australia but to become a barrister you do need to write a set of bar exams amongst other things. You can check out the requirements at the NSW Bar Association website. www.nswbar.asn.au
quote
bubz
Oh Ok, that makes more sense.
Ofcourse it will be more difficult to become a barrister rather than a solicitor.
I heard the US bar is pretty tough especially for overseas folks..
Oh Ok, that makes more sense.
Ofcourse it will be more difficult to become a barrister rather than a solicitor.
I heard the US bar is pretty tough especially for overseas folks..
quote
I understand that Washinton has the easiest entry path to US bar admission.

Furthermore, California also has a reasonable entry system for foreign lawyers.

the NY Bar adnmission also has the opportunity to appeal against the oppressive entry systems.

Some states also make concessions for those lawyers that have been in practice in another jurisdiction for in excess of 5 years.

It may be easier to seek admission in the UK s it gives substantial recognition to Australian admitted soliciotrs.

The difficulty in qualifying in AUS is that the US market is filled with firms that access there lawyers from their own preferred university.
I understand that Washinton has the easiest entry path to US bar admission.

Furthermore, California also has a reasonable entry system for foreign lawyers.

the NY Bar adnmission also has the opportunity to appeal against the oppressive entry systems.

Some states also make concessions for those lawyers that have been in practice in another jurisdiction for in excess of 5 years.

It may be easier to seek admission in the UK s it gives substantial recognition to Australian admitted soliciotrs.

The difficulty in qualifying in AUS is that the US market is filled with firms that access there lawyers from their own preferred university.
quote
slw9k
Hi all,

I happened upon this thread because I finished my JD degree, in the US (NY/DC bar), but am currently engaged to an Australian. For various reasons, we need to be in Australia for the time being. So.. with less than a year on my job I am packing up moving over soon. I am currently looking into having my degree evaluated, etc and attempting to pick schools and deciding whether to pick a degree or a non-degree course. Does anyone have any idea if both are evaluated the same? I know in the US they generally are not and there are lesser standards for non-degree. I would also love to hear any more experiences with the GPA conversion.

I was also reading Bubz posting, in general, you need to complete a JD to sit for a bar in most states. However, you can complete an American LLM (1 year program) and sit for the NY and California bars. (The bar exam usually takes about 2-3 months of intense study) Not sure as I was only concerned with NY and Washington, DC but I am fairly certain that these are the only two states that individuals without US JDs can sit for, and is a bit of why they are considered quite hard. I do know that NY also allows individuals who do not have JDs to sit for the bar. However, I believe you need to have significant experience as a paralegal in the US. Not too sure, but I think very few sit for the bar in this way. Aside from that, most states allow you to waive in after practicing law in a jurisdiction for 5 years. Not sure if it is the same for those recieving degrees abroad. But you could certainly look into it. =)
Hi all,

I happened upon this thread because I finished my JD degree, in the US (NY/DC bar), but am currently engaged to an Australian. For various reasons, we need to be in Australia for the time being. So.. with less than a year on my job I am packing up moving over soon. I am currently looking into having my degree evaluated, etc and attempting to pick schools and deciding whether to pick a degree or a non-degree course. Does anyone have any idea if both are evaluated the same? I know in the US they generally are not and there are lesser standards for non-degree. I would also love to hear any more experiences with the GPA conversion.

I was also reading Bubz posting, in general, you need to complete a JD to sit for a bar in most states. However, you can complete an American LLM (1 year program) and sit for the NY and California bars. (The bar exam usually takes about 2-3 months of intense study) Not sure as I was only concerned with NY and Washington, DC but I am fairly certain that these are the only two states that individuals without US JDs can sit for, and is a bit of why they are considered quite hard. I do know that NY also allows individuals who do not have JDs to sit for the bar. However, I believe you need to have significant experience as a paralegal in the US. Not too sure, but I think very few sit for the bar in this way. Aside from that, most states allow you to waive in after practicing law in a jurisdiction for 5 years. Not sure if it is the same for those recieving degrees abroad. But you could certainly look into it. =)
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