Hi guys

I have the following doubt:

I am an european guy but I'd like to finish my career working in South East Asia: mainly in the field of maritime law.....(just because I love this part of the world: Cambodia, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Thailand, etc)

Following the above idea, Which is the best way to follow?

1.Study in Southampton due to its high reputation.... high reputation also in Asia...not sure about

2. LLM maritime law in NUS...as far as I know is the best university for maritime law in Asia....

By the way, does anybody know how is the job market for maritime lawyers currently in that area??? I can figure that is better than Europe......

I'm not sure about what path to follow and I supose It wont be easy but anyway, could anyone advise me on this issue???

Thanks a lot

What's up people???

Everybody enter but nobody help......

Hi there!

Such a coincidence that I'm in the same situation as you. I'm intending to do a LLM in maritime law and the choice is also between NUS and Southampton.

I graduated from NUS, although from another faculty. It's a wonderful univ to study in, and yes, maritime law is one of the best here.

I've applied to Southampton but their intake is not until in October. I'm awaiting a prelim reply from NUS to see if I should even apply because the standard is extremely high. Keeping my fingers crossed! It'll be great to return to my alumni to do the LLM.

Not sure about the job market in Asia, but generally the whole shipping industry is in a bit of a lull at the moment. Anyway, it's an international law area that's versatile, so it should never be a problem. All the best to you! ;)

Hello Carpediem,
thank you for the interesting post about the NUS...

Not sure about the job market in Asia, but generally the whole shipping industry is in a bit of a lull at the moment. Anyway, it's an international law area that's versatile, so it should never be a problem.

Hi Flori,

That sentence can, of course, be debated. In fact, I said rhetorically to my mom in a conversation just a couple of nights ago.and asked her a "ridiculous" question as to whether the shipping industry can go under totally and disappear one day. Given the 'fact' that it's been so hard-hit in recent years and companies in the red. What's your answer? Is it really possible when the earth is covered by so much waters and trade through shipping had existed throughout the history of mankind? Well, no one knows...

We must all agree that not all law areas have an international nature to it. I'm a Singaporean studying Norwegian law and if I choose to specialise in areas like family or criminal law, I'm bound to Norway geographically. I'm unable to practice these areas of laws outside of Scandinavia. But maritime law is international. A big Norwegian law firm has offices in Shanghai, Kobe, Singapore besides the head office in Norway. One can be sent off to any of these places to work within maritime law because they're all shipping nations.

Within the LLM itself, there are various modules you can choose to widen the scope of your knowledge and what you can work with in the future even when you specialise in maritime law. For example, banking and financing and commercial arbitration, crossing over into business law, which is yet another huge international area in itself. There is always the option of branching into more areas even as you use your base knowledge in maritime.

So, when people say that the sky's the limit when you take a general LLM compared to a specialised one, my take is that it's both yes and no. It depends on what combination of modules you choose in the specialsed LLM. Sometimes, you've to open up the sky for yourself, haha...so to speak. Is my train of thoughts too complicated? Hope you're not confused by it ;P

Regards! ;)

Hi Carpediem,

Hi Flori,

That sentence can, of course, be debated. In fact, I said rhetorically to my mom in a conversation just a couple of nights ago.and asked her a "ridiculous" question as to whether the shipping industry can go under totally and disappear one day. Given the 'fact' that it's been so hard-hit in recent years and companies in the red. What's your answer?

We must all agree that not all law areas have an international nature to it. I'm a Singaporean studying Norwegian law and if I choose to specialise in areas like family or criminal law, I'm bound to Norway geographically. I'm unable to practice these areas of laws outside of Scandinavia. But maritime law is international. A big Norwegian law firm has offices in Shanghai, Kobe, Singapore besides the head office in Norway. One can be sent off to any of these places to work within maritime law because they're all shipping nations.

Within the LLM itself, there are various modules you can choose to widen the scope of your knowledge and what you can work with in the future even when you specialise in maritime law. For example, banking and financing and commercial arbitration, crossing over into business law, which is yet another huge international area in itself. There is always the option of branching into more areas even as you use your base knowledge in maritime.

So, when people say that the sky's the limit when you take a general LLM compared to a specialised one, my take is that it's both yes and no. It depends on what combination of modules you choose in the specialsed LLM. Sometimes, you've to open up the sky for yourself, haha...so to speak. Is my train of thoughts too complicated? Hope you're not confused by it ;P

Hi Flori,

Your last paragraph seems to indicate that many, or most LLM graduates in maritime law didn't get their desired job positions. Unless, according to you, one has the right resume, compelling performance and right connections etc.

Is that supported by facts / statistics - the unattainable desired job as a maritime lawyer - or is it an assumption that many will not?

When I said "it'll never be a problem", I meant exactly the belief that the shipping industry will always exist. And armed with an educational background in an international area like this, with its geographically mobility, it's hard for me to believe that many LLM graduates in maritime law end up not having a job of their choice. Even a job of one's choice is subjective - some are contented with small firms whilst others are not. Those in the last group only consider themselves successful when they get into the top firms. If one is extremely picky, unwilling to start from the bottom or unwilling to make a physical re-location if necessary, no matter which area of law one graduates from, the same person can still be searching for a job 5 years after graduation.

Cheers ;)

Hello Carpediem,

Hi Flori,


Is that supported by facts / statistics - the unattainable desired job as a maritime lawyer - or is it an assumption that many will not?

And armed with an educational background in an international area like this, with its geographically mobility, it's hard for me to believe that many LLM graduates in maritime law end up not having a job of their choice.

Hello Carpediem,

Hi Flori,


Is that supported by facts / statistics - the unattainable desired job as a maritime lawyer - or is it an assumption that many will not?

I have not said that it is unattainable - it is just something that majority will not achieve due to the open positions/graduates ratio.

As far as the "facts" are concerned, my statements do not come from out of blue.
1. I was working in the industry, I know how many applications were sent for the open positions and I still have enough contacts within the industry (UK/Western Europe market) to get the general situation. And no, the Asian market won't be totally different due to the reasons pointed out by you when it came to the "international law area".
2. Statistics: No, I don't have any statistically significant data (I roughly know the destinations about my whole LLM class - however, that is pure anecdotal evidence...). Still, I wonder - if the LLM programmes had the effects published in the glossy leaflets, the programme webpages would be full of statistics like "87% of our graduates landed a job in the industry within one year..." etc. You won't find any such statistics.
3. Just run the numbers - have a look at the number of law firms in this area and their respective manning level - compare that to the yearly graduate output.

I've never meant my thread to refer to the Asian market nor the UK situation because I said from the beginning that I had no idea how the Asian market is like where employment is concerned. Neither am I concerned about getting a job in UK. Even if I do try in the future, it'll certainly be through a Norwegian law firm that has international offices overseas.

I was referring to my own situation as a Norwegian law student planning to take a LLM in maritime law. The situation with employment for potential lawyers in Scandinavia in this area is certainly not as dire as you describe. That's all I'm saying, and I believe that we're speaking on two different plans. We should agree to disagree.

And armed with an educational background in an international area like this, with its geographically mobility, it's hard for me to believe that many LLM graduates in maritime law end up not having a job of their choice.

Geographical mobility: How many bar exams do you intend to pass? How many languages do you speak? (And no, it's not "English only" in the maritime law market. That changes at the latest, when it comes to the acquisition of clients - earlier in some other markets like France, Italy and possibly Germany).

There is no bar exam in Scandinavia, fortunately! Their system is different. My own goal is to become a qualified Norwegian lawyer and practice either in Norway or elsewhere, for example, in Singapore, my home country as a foreign lawyer - again, through employment from Norway's head office. Of course maritime law is not "English only" - I speak and write English, Chinese and Norwegian fluently. And I learnt some French some time ago but that language needs a lot more work before it's on the same level as the others languages I know.

I had an internship before with a norwegian law firm in their Singapore's office. My future prospects were not described by them in the same terms as you did based on what you experienced personally. So, I guess we're speaking across each other because you're relating your experiences from a specific country/region whereas my own comes from a different source.

In the end I have seen to many friends and fellow classmates who were "armed with an educational background in an international area like this" and geographically mobile, but never had the chance to practice in their "legal field of dreams".

Hmmm...it is indeed a pity and a sad fact for those who went through that situation. Certainly, it's easy to become disillusioned about the value / job prospects that a LLM can bring after what they had experienced...


Bye
Flori

Hello Carpediem,
it seems that in your last posting the quotations got rather mixed up. In the end I guess it's safe to say that there are constellations where an LLM in maritime law makes perfect sense (probably/certainly in your personal case). However, in a few/some/many cases it does not.

My key point is that the LLM in maritime law as such is by no means a career guarantee or even - once again - as such a career booster. I constructed your "Anyway, it's an international law area that's versatile, so it should never be a problem." in this direction, but according to your subsequent post this was not the intended meaning.

Bye
flori