LLM in Hong Kong


RALEX
Hello everyone. I'm an American attorney looking to do an LLM in Hong Kong next year. I'll probably apply to UHK, CUHK and City UHK. Anyone attending those schools currently (except for CUHK, since their program hasn't started)? Was curious how difficult it was to get in. Also, how your impression is of the quality of education is there and how generally busy the classes and work load are.... Thanks for any info anyone can provide!
Hello everyone. I'm an American attorney looking to do an LLM in Hong Kong next year. I'll probably apply to UHK, CUHK and City UHK. Anyone attending those schools currently (except for CUHK, since their program hasn't started)? Was curious how difficult it was to get in. Also, how your impression is of the quality of education is there and how generally busy the classes and work load are.... Thanks for any info anyone can provide!
quote
blacktie
Hi, i took the LLM in City U 2 years ago. Generally speaking, i think the course and work load would be a piece of cake for an American attorney. Some Amercian students i knew there felt the course is not hard for them at all unless u take the course of Chinese law (which might be a bit confusing for common law lawyers but not very hard). As to the quality, i cannot make a judgment as I only took one in Cityu and every school has its own characteristic. But basically speaking, the reputation of HKU is higher than Cityu. Although the law school of CUHK is a new school, it might also be worthy to try as CUHK is also a very good univ. and they recuit the staff from HKU and Cityu (personally think the staff are excellent! I knew some of them who are prof. in Cityu previously. They are great! The dean is my best friend.) Overall, i think the LLM in HK would be rewarding for a foreign lawyer and u could enjoy the life there. Hope the above helps u a bit!
Hi, i took the LLM in City U 2 years ago. Generally speaking, i think the course and work load would be a piece of cake for an American attorney. Some Amercian students i knew there felt the course is not hard for them at all unless u take the course of Chinese law (which might be a bit confusing for common law lawyers but not very hard). As to the quality, i cannot make a judgment as I only took one in Cityu and every school has its own characteristic. But basically speaking, the reputation of HKU is higher than Cityu. Although the law school of CUHK is a new school, it might also be worthy to try as CUHK is also a very good univ. and they recuit the staff from HKU and Cityu (personally think the staff are excellent! I knew some of them who are prof. in Cityu previously. They are great! The dean is my best friend.) Overall, i think the LLM in HK would be rewarding for a foreign lawyer and u could enjoy the life there. Hope the above helps u a bit!
quote
Hello, Blacktie. I am grateful to read your reply to Ralex and share the info luckily. As a matter of fact, that is exactly what I was trying to find out.
I am afraid, however, that you have not answered Ralex's question about how competitive it is to get in those schools.
Appreciate if you could also provide any info regarding it.
Hello, Blacktie. I am grateful to read your reply to Ralex and share the info luckily. As a matter of fact, that is exactly what I was trying to find out.
I am afraid, however, that you have not answered Ralex's question about how competitive it is to get in those schools.
Appreciate if you could also provide any info regarding it.
quote
Bear
Hi guys,

I am an english barrister and am considering doing an LLM in Chinese law. Does anyone have any comments about the better location - HK or Singapore? In HK which is considered to be the best institution?

Cheers

Matt
Hi guys,

I am an english barrister and am considering doing an LLM in Chinese law. Does anyone have any comments about the better location - HK or Singapore? In HK which is considered to be the best institution?

Cheers

Matt
quote
cathyXie
Hi,everyone. I am a undergraduate in a Chinese Law School. I am planning to apply for LLM abroad. As to Bear's questions,I guess LLM at Peking U may be another good choice. LLM in HK is mainly about common law, except for llm in Chinese law. HK has more interaction with the mainland China, so personnaly Hk is better than S.
Do you think llm in hk is a good choice for someone who want to get an insight into the common law system. Compared with llm in US or UK, llm in Hk may be more afforable for me....
Hi,everyone. I am a undergraduate in a Chinese Law School. I am planning to apply for LLM abroad. As to Bear's questions,I guess LLM at Peking U may be another good choice. LLM in HK is mainly about common law, except for llm in Chinese law. HK has more interaction with the mainland China, so personnaly Hk is better than S.
Do you think llm in hk is a good choice for someone who want to get an insight into the common law system. Compared with llm in US or UK, llm in Hk may be more afforable for me....
quote
Hello....

I pretty much have the same question as Ralex, except I am applying 2007-2008. I am also a U.S. attorney. Have become more and more fascinated with the developments in Asia (particularly in business and law) and just wanted to spend some time there.

I think I am just applying to HKU -- my Dad, who grew up in Hong Kong, insisted that I only go to that school if I want to go to Hong Kong at all. Does anyone have any idea how competitive the admission is? If anyone is a currently student, I would love to hear about the experience of being a student there as well. Any idea about availability of financial aid (whether from US or Hong Kong) would be appreciated as well!
Hello....

I pretty much have the same question as Ralex, except I am applying 2007-2008. I am also a U.S. attorney. Have become more and more fascinated with the developments in Asia (particularly in business and law) and just wanted to spend some time there.

I think I am just applying to HKU -- my Dad, who grew up in Hong Kong, insisted that I only go to that school if I want to go to Hong Kong at all. Does anyone have any idea how competitive the admission is? If anyone is a currently student, I would love to hear about the experience of being a student there as well. Any idea about availability of financial aid (whether from US or Hong Kong) would be appreciated as well!
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norcal
mockingbird, FYI I was just accepted to HKU. I graduated last may with a 3.18 from a top 40 U.S. school. I took 3 courses in international law and average about a B+ in them. I had two solid recs from profs...and that's about it.

I was also rejected from the program at Kyushu in Japan which I think is a pretty sweet deal in that most accepted get a full ride from the Japanese gov. However, they only admit 13-15 students. You may want to check out that program too.

Additionally, NYU has a brand new program in Singapore starting May 2007 that would be great, but the timing is wrong for me. Check it out at their website.
mockingbird, FYI I was just accepted to HKU. I graduated last may with a 3.18 from a top 40 U.S. school. I took 3 courses in international law and average about a B+ in them. I had two solid recs from profs...and that's about it.

I was also rejected from the program at Kyushu in Japan which I think is a pretty sweet deal in that most accepted get a full ride from the Japanese gov. However, they only admit 13-15 students. You may want to check out that program too.

Additionally, NYU has a brand new program in Singapore starting May 2007 that would be great, but the timing is wrong for me. Check it out at their website.
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norcal
FYI- here's a link to one guy's interpretation of UHK

http://law.richmond.edu/jurispub/jpubsite/default.php?pageType=2&docId=320&docIssue=2006-02-27
FYI- here's a link to one guy's interpretation of UHK

http://law.richmond.edu/jurispub/jpubsite/default.php?pageType=2&docId=320&docIssue=2006-02-27
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jesswill7
Thanks for that, that's a great article!

Ooh! I really want to go now! I've still not received an answer yet so we'll see...

Jess
Thanks for that, that's a great article!

Ooh! I really want to go now! I've still not received an answer yet so we'll see...

Jess
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jesswill7
Hi guys,

Has anyone a part from Ralex and Norcal received an HKU offer yet? I'm getting a bit stressed about not getting any news...

Cheers,

Jess
Hi guys,

Has anyone a part from Ralex and Norcal received an HKU offer yet? I'm getting a bit stressed about not getting any news...

Cheers,

Jess
quote
ncBB
I was born in HK, and pure HKer.

Let me try to give you guys some hints:
(1)CUHK: Biggest campus, high gov subsidies, good HR.
For China Laws, they hired professor who are competented in English, they were conducting China Law in clarity, and they showed their aptitude to adapt foreign culture and lead them to understand more about China and their law. Location is near as door to door from Festival Walk Mall (CityU) To CUHK is only 3 train stops in 10-15mins. Yes door to door. Plus they have good air + good dormitory comparing to other 2 law schools.

(2) HKU is the best law school in HK but just for common law (LLB, PCLL for local future lawyers), so, so sorry about it, Chinese Law~~~ HKU know nothing. And HK is not using China Law but British Law.

(3) CityU, worse one since those China Law professor who could speak English was hunted to CUHK by higher wage. Besides, CityU was not a University many years ago, it was a college only. For comparing, CityU whatever human resources, campus facilities & gov $$ are much lesser than CUHK and HKU, people donated to CUHK but not CityU, CityU is a shop not a school in our eyes who provide most self-financed taught master degrees amoung all 8 Universities in HK. Don't be fool, read their campus size and situation of crowding you know CityU is too commercial and much lesser recognition in HK. Don't be fool for law library, HKU's is the biggest not CityU, but none your business either, they are all for OCEAN law, best Chinese law library is not in HK, it is in Beijing. Do NOT pick CityU if you have another offer from CUHK or HKU. You guys got CityU offers so early and fast because CityU is a diploma mill only.

Conclusion:
Only for CHINESE LAW
Reputation: HKU > CUHK > CityU
Campus: CUHK > HKU > CityU
Future: CUHK > HKU > CityU
Quality: CUHK > HKU CityU
Convenient to shopping: CityU > CUHK > HKU
English Standard: HKU > CUHK > CityU
$$: CUHK > HKU > CityU

Overall for HK University
Top Tier Overall: CUHK, HKU, HKUST
Second Tier Overall: PolyU, CityU, LU
Third Tier: OUHK, HKSYC
If you can get in top tier of course top tier.
I was born in HK, and pure HKer.

Let me try to give you guys some hints:
(1)CUHK: Biggest campus, high gov subsidies, good HR.
For China Laws, they hired professor who are competented in English, they were conducting China Law in clarity, and they showed their aptitude to adapt foreign culture and lead them to understand more about China and their law. Location is near as door to door from Festival Walk Mall (CityU) To CUHK is only 3 train stops in 10-15mins. Yes door to door. Plus they have good air + good dormitory comparing to other 2 law schools.

(2) HKU is the best law school in HK but just for common law (LLB, PCLL for local future lawyers), so, so sorry about it, Chinese Law~~~ HKU know nothing. And HK is not using China Law but British Law.

(3) CityU, worse one since those China Law professor who could speak English was hunted to CUHK by higher wage. Besides, CityU was not a University many years ago, it was a college only. For comparing, CityU whatever human resources, campus facilities & gov $$ are much lesser than CUHK and HKU, people donated to CUHK but not CityU, CityU is a shop not a school in our eyes who provide most self-financed taught master degrees amoung all 8 Universities in HK. Don't be fool, read their campus size and situation of crowding you know CityU is too commercial and much lesser recognition in HK. Don't be fool for law library, HKU's is the biggest not CityU, but none your business either, they are all for OCEAN law, best Chinese law library is not in HK, it is in Beijing. Do NOT pick CityU if you have another offer from CUHK or HKU. You guys got CityU offers so early and fast because CityU is a diploma mill only.

Conclusion:
Only for CHINESE LAW
Reputation: HKU > CUHK > CityU
Campus: CUHK > HKU > CityU
Future: CUHK > HKU > CityU
Quality: CUHK > HKU CityU
Convenient to shopping: CityU > CUHK > HKU
English Standard: HKU > CUHK > CityU
$$: CUHK > HKU > CityU

Overall for HK University
Top Tier Overall: CUHK, HKU, HKUST
Second Tier Overall: PolyU, CityU, LU
Third Tier: OUHK, HKSYC
If you can get in top tier of course top tier.

quote
Julius
Interesting post. However, no offence, but as far as English language skills are concerned: If you are sitting in a glass house, you shouldn't throw stones..;-)
Interesting post. However, no offence, but as far as English language skills are concerned: If you are sitting in a glass house, you shouldn't throw stones..;-)
quote
A few observations about this.

1. How can CUHK have any reputation regarding Chinese law when they haven't taught a single class in Chinese law in a degree program? Reputation is built up over time

2. You say that HKU have no experience in relation to Chinese law yet they have been offering a programme in it for many years. CUHK have not.

3. You say that CityU is a "diploma factory" - any facts to back this up?

4. Your "conclusion" contradicts the earlier statement you made about HKU.

5. While the accomodation situation may be better in CUHK the accomodation is in Shatin while the postgraduate programs are in central, over an hour away, door to door.

6. "People donated to CUHK not CityU" - people donate to both and naturally more people will donate to CUHK because it has been established longer and therefore has a greater alumni body.

7. "CityU is a shop, not a school in our eyes" - Surely you can see how ridiculous this statement sounds.

8. "CityU was not a unviersity many years ago it was a college" - The same can be said for a lot of great universities world wide.

9. Do you think that the "opinions" of Hong Kong residents are more based on prejudice and traditions than on an a rational view of the programs, the calibre of the staff, the tendancy for innovation and achievements of graduates?

10. I think a lot of people appreciate the rapid response of CityU when compared with the slow application process of the other Universities. Applicants like to know where they stand and there is no real reason why CUHK and HKU can't process applications on a rolling basis like CityU does.

11. Exactly what qualifies you to make these statements? I was born in New York and am a "pure New Yorker" in as far as that concept exists. This does not qualify to hold up as fact my prejudicial opinions as to whether NYLS is better than Fordham or Columbia is better than NYU.

12. Considering your own standard of English I do not believe that you are well qualified to comment on standard of English of the professors at CityU.

Regards,

Jane
A few observations about this.

1. How can CUHK have any reputation regarding Chinese law when they haven't taught a single class in Chinese law in a degree program? Reputation is built up over time

2. You say that HKU have no experience in relation to Chinese law yet they have been offering a programme in it for many years. CUHK have not.

3. You say that CityU is a "diploma factory" - any facts to back this up?

4. Your "conclusion" contradicts the earlier statement you made about HKU.

5. While the accomodation situation may be better in CUHK the accomodation is in Shatin while the postgraduate programs are in central, over an hour away, door to door.

6. "People donated to CUHK not CityU" - people donate to both and naturally more people will donate to CUHK because it has been established longer and therefore has a greater alumni body.

7. "CityU is a shop, not a school in our eyes" - Surely you can see how ridiculous this statement sounds.

8. "CityU was not a unviersity many years ago it was a college" - The same can be said for a lot of great universities world wide.

9. Do you think that the "opinions" of Hong Kong residents are more based on prejudice and traditions than on an a rational view of the programs, the calibre of the staff, the tendancy for innovation and achievements of graduates?

10. I think a lot of people appreciate the rapid response of CityU when compared with the slow application process of the other Universities. Applicants like to know where they stand and there is no real reason why CUHK and HKU can't process applications on a rolling basis like CityU does.

11. Exactly what qualifies you to make these statements? I was born in New York and am a "pure New Yorker" in as far as that concept exists. This does not qualify to hold up as fact my prejudicial opinions as to whether NYLS is better than Fordham or Columbia is better than NYU.

12. Considering your own standard of English I do not believe that you are well qualified to comment on standard of English of the professors at CityU.

Regards,

Jane
quote
RALEX
Thanks for the post ncBB. Any info is good, especially for foriegners who are currently far away from HK. I've also done a bit of checking around, from both HKers, foreigners who lived in HK and fellow prospective LLM students. I think ncBB brings up some decent points, although I don't agree with all of his points. Here's my .02 cents worth.

HKU is without a doubt, the no. 1 school in Hong Kong. As far as rankings and general repuation in Hong Kong. I think Asiaweek and The Times rank schools in Asia (GIS it!), and HKU is regarded pretty highly. It is generally the best school in HK/China, with the exception of Beijing U. Former HK people have told me that if I get in, I should go there. Now, what is the importance of ranks or reputation? That depends. If you plan to work in HK or possibly China afterwards, than a good school is helpful. Chinese and Asians are big on ranks (excuse the blatant stereotype, but as an Asian American I think this is definetly true). Does it really effect the quality of its LLM program? Probably not. Does it make it better than City or CUHK? No.

I'm not sure I agree with ncBB's assertion that HKU's LLM program "knows nothing" about Chinese law, unless he/she has some details to provide. HKU has had a reputation of being too conservative and too western/pro-british. In fact, in part, CUHK was set up to provide an alternative and a more Chinese influenced school. What that has to do with the LLM program, I don't know. HKU has been doing this for a few years. I would think HKU could afford some decent China legal scholars. CUHK is a brand new program. So, who's to say that CUHK is going to be a better law school? Might happen. But speculative at this point.

I like CUHK. I went there for a semester in my undergrad years. But, there are some serious issues to contend with, if one decides to go there. One, it's a new program. So, I'm concerned about the lack of an alum network. If you're looking for an internship or a job, well, one big avenue is the lawyers that school has already produced. Well, there are none, yet. Two, I am concerned about location. Its law school and MBA program is in HK island, but its campus is out in the new territories. Great location in terms of being near the "action". Not so hot, if you want to have a university experience. The campus is an hour away. Some people like commutes. Their train system is pretty nice. On the plus side, CUHK is very well funded and I imagine is going to do its best to make sure its school doesn't flop. Also, they did take a top professor from City (which I also heard).

Lastly, as for City, ncBB is correct that City has had a bad rep in the past. Hk people that I've spoken to, did not speak highly of the school. However, most of those people left HK in the 1990's. However, City apparently did address a lot of those concerns in the past few years. It's now reputably ranked by outside publications. There is no way I would term City a "diploma mill". Also it appears to be more connected with western/foriegn universities than the other two. I suspect that it will have more Westerners than the other two. That's either a plus or a minus, depending on your own personal view.

Anyhow, it all boils down to what you are looking for. If you are leaving right after the LLM back to your home country, than it really doesn't matter. I'd go for the school that's going to be the most convenient in terms of location, meeting new people and the program's time commitment. If you are going to try to stay in HK/China, I'd suggest HKU first, then second: City or CUHK. I think City and CUHK are equal at this point, with both having pluses and minuses. The other open university LLM programs I have no opinion on. Hope that helps.
Thanks for the post ncBB. Any info is good, especially for foriegners who are currently far away from HK. I've also done a bit of checking around, from both HKers, foreigners who lived in HK and fellow prospective LLM students. I think ncBB brings up some decent points, although I don't agree with all of his points. Here's my .02 cents worth.

HKU is without a doubt, the no. 1 school in Hong Kong. As far as rankings and general repuation in Hong Kong. I think Asiaweek and The Times rank schools in Asia (GIS it!), and HKU is regarded pretty highly. It is generally the best school in HK/China, with the exception of Beijing U. Former HK people have told me that if I get in, I should go there. Now, what is the importance of ranks or reputation? That depends. If you plan to work in HK or possibly China afterwards, than a good school is helpful. Chinese and Asians are big on ranks (excuse the blatant stereotype, but as an Asian American I think this is definetly true). Does it really effect the quality of its LLM program? Probably not. Does it make it better than City or CUHK? No.

I'm not sure I agree with ncBB's assertion that HKU's LLM program "knows nothing" about Chinese law, unless he/she has some details to provide. HKU has had a reputation of being too conservative and too western/pro-british. In fact, in part, CUHK was set up to provide an alternative and a more Chinese influenced school. What that has to do with the LLM program, I don't know. HKU has been doing this for a few years. I would think HKU could afford some decent China legal scholars. CUHK is a brand new program. So, who's to say that CUHK is going to be a better law school? Might happen. But speculative at this point.

I like CUHK. I went there for a semester in my undergrad years. But, there are some serious issues to contend with, if one decides to go there. One, it's a new program. So, I'm concerned about the lack of an alum network. If you're looking for an internship or a job, well, one big avenue is the lawyers that school has already produced. Well, there are none, yet. Two, I am concerned about location. Its law school and MBA program is in HK island, but its campus is out in the new territories. Great location in terms of being near the "action". Not so hot, if you want to have a university experience. The campus is an hour away. Some people like commutes. Their train system is pretty nice. On the plus side, CUHK is very well funded and I imagine is going to do its best to make sure its school doesn't flop. Also, they did take a top professor from City (which I also heard).

Lastly, as for City, ncBB is correct that City has had a bad rep in the past. Hk people that I've spoken to, did not speak highly of the school. However, most of those people left HK in the 1990's. However, City apparently did address a lot of those concerns in the past few years. It's now reputably ranked by outside publications. There is no way I would term City a "diploma mill". Also it appears to be more connected with western/foriegn universities than the other two. I suspect that it will have more Westerners than the other two. That's either a plus or a minus, depending on your own personal view.

Anyhow, it all boils down to what you are looking for. If you are leaving right after the LLM back to your home country, than it really doesn't matter. I'd go for the school that's going to be the most convenient in terms of location, meeting new people and the program's time commitment. If you are going to try to stay in HK/China, I'd suggest HKU first, then second: City or CUHK. I think City and CUHK are equal at this point, with both having pluses and minuses. The other open university LLM programs I have no opinion on. Hope that helps.
quote
ncBB
Julius Thanks for your advices, ur right I got hurt now, but as a two-kids father with form5 level Chinglish, what do you expect?


janerichardson

A few observations about this.

Please NOTE that what I was talking about was Chinese Laws only.

1. How can CUHK have any reputation regarding Chinese law when they haven't taught a single class in Chinese law in a degree program? Reputation is built up over time

ANS: Thats something behind the fact, when you read official history book, you trust the publisher and author, however, you cant ignore the chance something in the history book was untrue, even though the chance is low. The main reason is you cant take the time machine to get and see if it was not true unless you stand in front of the scene saw it personally by that time. Reputation can be different level in different place under different culture. The things behind the fact, I repeat here again, was the faculties in CityU resigned, I stood here and saw it while you did not. And then they were hired by CUHK, you did not stand here to see it too. It was not showed on the 2006 law school guide something on your hand too. And for Hong Kong people, CityU is still a community college in our heart, their name was upgrade to university because they followed what education bureau that changed all their degree from American 4 years to British 3 years at that year, not the same situation as some American colleges upgraded because they were getting better. By that time all potential colleges like www.hksyc.com.hk did not follow Bristish govt that changing to 3 years got no chance to upgrade their name from College to University.

2. You say that HKU have no experience in relation to Chinese law yet they have been offering a programme in it for many years. CUHK have not.

ANS: The have experience in law, but they were good at common law, not continental law, I have experience for writing English since 3 years old in HK, but I am still that poor, it was the quality problem, not experience, their quality to conduct Chinese law is low, even though they have exp, coz they input the resource in common law since it is a British style law school not Beijing style ok? We cant, sorry, compare apple to orange.

3. You say that CityU is a "diploma factory" - any facts to back this up?

ANS:Over 100 PGD, most PGD among 8 U, as I said before

4. Your "conclusion" contradicts the earlier statement you made about HKU.

ANS: Like what?

5. While the accomodation situation may be better in CUHK the accomodation is in Shatin while the postgraduate programs are in central, over an hour away, door to door.

Ans:You have to reconfirm the locations, they may subject to change, and how did you know its an hour away? What transportation you took and test it was an hour away?


6. "People donated to CUHK not CityU" - people donate to both and naturally more people will donate to CUHK because it has been established longer and therefore has a greater alumni body.

ANS: No, you are wrong. Rich people in HK only donate big universities that have space for them to build the new tower named their names, CityU has zero space left. Zero. Please do research before reply, u r polly a lawyer, I am not. You should be much superior in word, fact, argument and research than me. Rich people, actually, most people in HK are too commercial, and selfish, they never donate 1 billion dollar just because the schools have longer history, be a sophisticated lawyer, not a naïve one please, and alumni not donate much as those famous American law schools.


7. "CityU is a shop, not a school in our eyes" - Surely you can see how ridiculous this statement sounds.

ANS: OMG, it was my opinion, not statement, I am not a lawyer but a blue collar worker in Hong Kong only. Please re-read or ask other HKers when you arrive HK that what the meaning of Chinglish in our eyes ok?


8. "CityU was not a unviersity many years ago it was a college" - The same can be said for a lot of great universities world wide.

ANS: Please do a research, how ridiculous this statement sounds
Comparing CityU with great universities worldwide is not fair to them.

9. Do you think that the "opinions" of Hong Kong residents are more based on prejudice and traditions than on an a rational view of the programs, the calibre of the staff, the tendancy for innovation and achievements of graduates?

ANS: If you go learn China Law, you will know China Laws are based on prejudice. Please understand it is culture problem, we also think you compare cityu with great universities worldwide at the same level is based on your own prejudice too?

10. I think a lot of people appreciate the rapid response of CityU when compared with the slow application process of the other Universities. Applicants like to know where they stand and there is no real reason why CUHK and HKU can't process applications on a rolling basis like CityU does.

ANS: We discussed too many times in Chinese educational forums (in Chinese language), any Universities in HK utilize rolling basis, they are categorized by HK students as dip factory. 500 people saying that may not be too wrong, if they have offers from CUHK or HKU, they will not pick CityU, it is not the fact but it is a phenomenon. I appreciate rapid response too, but why they did not take the offer and still waiting for last law school HKU?


11. Exactly what qualifies you to make these statements? I was born in New York and am a "pure New Yorker" in as far as that concept exists. This does not qualify to hold up as fact my prejudicial opinions as to whether NYLS is better than Fordham or Columbia is better than NYU.

ANS: Yes, you are right lawyer, and I did not intend to be qualified to publish anything, it is just a forum, come on.

12. Considering your own standard of English I do not believe that you are well qualified to comment on standard of English of the professors at CityU.

ANS: Of course not, you are right too, but I was talking about those temp prof from China to replaced those old English speaking prof moved CUHK last cohort, information from other LLM students last cohort from other forums, not by me, I am not a law student in any school, I barely graduated from a band 5 high school in Hong Kong, then I worked as an outdoor constructor for 20 years. Please forgive my poor English, I did my best la~~~, I share my feeling in here, and dare to talk English with you all American attorneys because my daughter is about to get in one of the law school, for her, I want to read more about law schools info on web.


RALEX

Thanks for the post ncBB. Any info is good, especially for foriegners who are currently far away from HK. I've also done a bit of checking around, from both HKers, foreigners who lived in HK and fellow prospective LLM students. I think ncBB brings up some decent points, although I don't agree with all of his points. Here's my .02 cents worth.

Ans: thanks a lot

HKU is without a doubt, the no. 1 school in Hong Kong. As far as rankings and general repuation in Hong Kong. I think Asiaweek and The Times rank schools in Asia (GIS it!), and HKU is regarded pretty highly. It is generally the best school in HK/China, with the exception of Beijing U. Former HK people have told me that if I get in, I should go there. Now, what is the importance of ranks or reputation? That depends. If you plan to work in HK or possibly China afterwards, than a good school is helpful. Chinese and Asians are big on ranks (excuse the blatant stereotype, but as an Asian American I think this is definetly true). Does it really effect the quality of its LLM program? Probably not. Does it make it better than City or CUHK? No.

Ans: Yes you are totally right. Culture different, and sources were different too. For my observation, if the LLM in Chinese law in Chinese module, PKU (Beijing U) is much better as it is ranked #1-#3 every single year according the official ranking institution in China (I dont know their English name, and my poor English is not enough to translate their name, it is very impolite to do so), for English module, of coz Uni in HK rule it.


I'm not sure I agree with ncBB's assertion that HKU's LLM program "knows nothing" about Chinese law, unless he/she has some details to provide. HKU has had a reputation of being too conservative and too western/pro-british. In fact, in part, CUHK was set up to provide an alternative and a more Chinese influenced school. What that has to do with the LLM program, I don't know. HKU has been doing this for a few years. I would think HKU could afford some decent China legal scholars. CUHK is a brand new program. So, who's to say that CUHK is going to be a better law school? Might happen. But speculative at this point.

Ans: Thanks remind what I did say, I was wrong, it was too prejudge.

I like CUHK. I went there for a semester in my undergrad years. But, there are some serious issues to contend with, if one decides to go there. One, it's a new program. So, I'm concerned about the lack of an alum network. If you're looking for an internship or a job, well, one big avenue is the lawyers that school has already produced. Well, there are none, yet. Two, I am concerned about location. Its law school and MBA program is in HK island, but its campus is out in the new territories. Great location in terms of being near the "action". Not so hot, if you want to have a university experience. The campus is an hour away. Some people like commutes. Their train system is pretty nice. On the plus side, CUHK is very well funded and I imagine is going to do its best to make sure its school doesn't flop. Also, they did take a top professor from City (which I also heard).

Ans: Most HKers like CUHK too, janerichardson may say I am biased again, but she could not just change an old Chinese that fork is more convenient that chopsticks, ur a Asian American, you know when we eat Chinese dishes (Chinese laws), chopstick is much suitable, same as 8 universities, CityU cant compare with HKU or CUHK no matter what, it is because CityU (fork) is not what we want to enter(utensil using to eat), if we have offer from HKU/CUHK(ivory chopsticks/plastic chopsticks) we accept it first. Of coz if we have only one offer (Cityu/fork), we can still use fork to eat Chinese dishes (or Chinese laws).


Lastly, as for City, ncBB is correct that City has had a bad rep in the past. Hk people that I've spoken to, did not speak highly of the school. However, most of those people left HK in the 1990's. However, City apparently did address a lot of those concerns in the past few years. It's now reputably ranked by outside publications. There is no way I would term City a "diploma mill". Also it appears to be more connected with western/foriegn universities than the other two. I suspect that it will have more Westerners than the other two. That's either a plus or a minus, depending on your own personal view.

ANS: CityU has too many self-financed PGD, and local students cant afford it, giving offers for foreign students who are rich is a very wise decision. Thanks telling me, maybe I know why janerichardson was pissed off, I did not know CityU actually put their great effort to advertise to oversea.

Anyhow, it all boils down to what you are looking for. If you are leaving right after the LLM back to your home country, than it really doesn't matter. I'd go for the school that's going to be the most convenient in terms of location, meeting new people and the program's time commitment. If you are going to try to stay in HK/China, I'd suggest HKU first, then second: City or CUHK. I think City and CUHK are equal at this point, with both having pluses and minuses. The other open university LLM programs I have no opinion on. Hope that helps.

ANS: However, in HK, CUHK is much much more famous than CityU, for Open university, just like oversea, we are free to enter when you meet their entry req. however, material itself is same level as other universities. I wont let my daughter get in OUHK, never. I rather work hard to save $$ for her to study abroad if she cant get in CUHK/HKUST (BBA), HKU(LAW) or CUHK(MED/PHARM).
Julius Thanks for your advices, ur right I got hurt now, but as a two-kids father with form5 level Chinglish, what do you expect?



janerichardson

A few observations about this.

Please NOTE that what I was talking about was Chinese Laws only.

1. How can CUHK have any reputation regarding Chinese law when they haven't taught a single class in Chinese law in a degree program? Reputation is built up over time

ANS: That’s something behind the fact, when you read official history book, you trust the publisher and author, however, you can’t ignore the chance something in the history book was untrue, even though the chance is low. The main reason is you can’t take the time machine to get and see if it was not true unless you stand in front of the scene saw it personally by that time. Reputation can be different level in different place under different culture. The things behind the fact, I repeat here again, was the faculties in CityU resigned, I stood here and saw it while you did not. And then they were hired by CUHK, you did not stand here to see it too. It was not showed on the 2006 law school guide something on your hand too. And for Hong Kong people, CityU is still a community college in our heart, their name was upgrade to university because they followed what education bureau that changed all their degree from American 4 years to British 3 years at that year, not the same situation as some American colleges upgraded because they were getting better. By that time all potential colleges like www.hksyc.com.hk did not follow Bristish gov’t that changing to 3 years got no chance to upgrade their name from College to University.

2. You say that HKU have no experience in relation to Chinese law yet they have been offering a programme in it for many years. CUHK have not.

ANS: The have experience in law, but they were good at common law, not continental law, I have experience for writing English since 3 years old in HK, but I am still that poor, it was the quality problem, not experience, their quality to conduct Chinese law is low, even though they have exp, coz they input the resource in common law since it is a British style law school not Beijing style ok? We can’t, sorry, compare apple to orange.

3. You say that CityU is a "diploma factory" - any facts to back this up?

ANS:Over 100 PGD, most PGD among 8 U, as I said before

4. Your "conclusion" contradicts the earlier statement you made about HKU.

ANS: Like what?

5. While the accomodation situation may be better in CUHK the accomodation is in Shatin while the postgraduate programs are in central, over an hour away, door to door.

Ans:You have to reconfirm the locations, they may subject to change, and how did you know it’s an hour away? What transportation you took and test it was an hour away?


6. "People donated to CUHK not CityU" - people donate to both and naturally more people will donate to CUHK because it has been established longer and therefore has a greater alumni body.

ANS: No, you are wrong. Rich people in HK only donate big universities that have space for them to build the new tower named their names, CityU has zero space left. Zero. Please do research before reply, u r polly a lawyer, I am not. You should be much superior in word, fact, argument and research than me. Rich people, actually, most people in HK are too commercial, and selfish, they never donate 1 billion dollar just because the schools have longer history, be a sophisticated lawyer, not a naïve one please, and alumni not donate much as those famous American law schools.


7. "CityU is a shop, not a school in our eyes" - Surely you can see how ridiculous this statement sounds.

ANS: OMG, it was my opinion, not statement, I am not a lawyer but a blue collar worker in Hong Kong only. Please re-read or ask other HKers when you arrive HK that what the meaning of Chinglish “in our eyes” ok?


8. "CityU was not a unviersity many years ago it was a college" - The same can be said for a lot of great universities world wide.

ANS: Please do a research, how “ridiculous” this statement sounds
Comparing CityU with “great universities worldwide” is not fair to them.

9. Do you think that the "opinions" of Hong Kong residents are more based on prejudice and traditions than on an a rational view of the programs, the calibre of the staff, the tendancy for innovation and achievements of graduates?

ANS: If you go learn China Law, you will know China Laws are based on prejudice. Please understand it is culture problem, we also think you compare cityu with great universities worldwide at the same level is based on your own prejudice too?

10. I think a lot of people appreciate the rapid response of CityU when compared with the slow application process of the other Universities. Applicants like to know where they stand and there is no real reason why CUHK and HKU can't process applications on a rolling basis like CityU does.

ANS: We discussed too many times in Chinese educational forums (in Chinese language), any Universities in HK utilize rolling basis, they are categorized by HK students as dip factory. 500 people saying that may not be too wrong, if they have offers from CUHK or HKU, they will not pick CityU, it is not the fact but it is a phenomenon. I appreciate rapid response too, but why they did not take the offer and still waiting for last law school HKU?


11. Exactly what qualifies you to make these statements? I was born in New York and am a "pure New Yorker" in as far as that concept exists. This does not qualify to hold up as fact my prejudicial opinions as to whether NYLS is better than Fordham or Columbia is better than NYU.

ANS: Yes, you are right lawyer, and I did not intend to be qualified to publish anything, it is just a forum, come on.

12. Considering your own standard of English I do not believe that you are well qualified to comment on standard of English of the professors at CityU.

ANS: Of course not, you are right too, but I was talking about those temp prof from China to replaced those old English speaking prof moved CUHK last cohort, information from other LLM students last cohort from other forums, not by me, I am not a law student in any school, I barely graduated from a band 5 high school in Hong Kong, then I worked as an outdoor constructor for 20 years. Please forgive my poor English, I did my best la~~~, I share my feeling in here, and dare to talk English with you all American attorneys because my daughter is about to get in one of the law school, for her, I want to read more about law schools info on web.





RALEX

Thanks for the post ncBB. Any info is good, especially for foriegners who are currently far away from HK. I've also done a bit of checking around, from both HKers, foreigners who lived in HK and fellow prospective LLM students. I think ncBB brings up some decent points, although I don't agree with all of his points. Here's my .02 cents worth.

Ans: thanks a lot

HKU is without a doubt, the no. 1 school in Hong Kong. As far as rankings and general repuation in Hong Kong. I think Asiaweek and The Times rank schools in Asia (GIS it!), and HKU is regarded pretty highly. It is generally the best school in HK/China, with the exception of Beijing U. Former HK people have told me that if I get in, I should go there. Now, what is the importance of ranks or reputation? That depends. If you plan to work in HK or possibly China afterwards, than a good school is helpful. Chinese and Asians are big on ranks (excuse the blatant stereotype, but as an Asian American I think this is definetly true). Does it really effect the quality of its LLM program? Probably not. Does it make it better than City or CUHK? No.

Ans: Yes you are totally right. Culture different, and sources were different too. For my observation, if the LLM in Chinese law in Chinese module, PKU (Beijing U) is much better as it is ranked #1-#3 every single year according the official ranking institution in China (I don’t know their English name, and my poor English is not enough to translate their name, it is very impolite to do so), for English module, of coz Uni in HK rule it.


I'm not sure I agree with ncBB's assertion that HKU's LLM program "knows nothing" about Chinese law, unless he/she has some details to provide. HKU has had a reputation of being too conservative and too western/pro-british. In fact, in part, CUHK was set up to provide an alternative and a more Chinese influenced school. What that has to do with the LLM program, I don't know. HKU has been doing this for a few years. I would think HKU could afford some decent China legal scholars. CUHK is a brand new program. So, who's to say that CUHK is going to be a better law school? Might happen. But speculative at this point.

Ans: Thanks remind what I did say, I was wrong, it was too “prejudge”.

I like CUHK. I went there for a semester in my undergrad years. But, there are some serious issues to contend with, if one decides to go there. One, it's a new program. So, I'm concerned about the lack of an alum network. If you're looking for an internship or a job, well, one big avenue is the lawyers that school has already produced. Well, there are none, yet. Two, I am concerned about location. Its law school and MBA program is in HK island, but its campus is out in the new territories. Great location in terms of being near the "action". Not so hot, if you want to have a university experience. The campus is an hour away. Some people like commutes. Their train system is pretty nice. On the plus side, CUHK is very well funded and I imagine is going to do its best to make sure its school doesn't flop. Also, they did take a top professor from City (which I also heard).

Ans: Most HKers like CUHK too, janerichardson may say I am biased again, but she could not just change an old Chinese that fork is more convenient that chopsticks, ur a Asian American, you know when we eat Chinese dishes (Chinese laws), chopstick is much suitable, same as 8 universities, CityU can’t compare with HKU or CUHK no matter what, it is because CityU (fork) is not what we want to enter(utensil using to eat), if we have offer from HKU/CUHK(ivory chopsticks/plastic chopsticks) we accept it first. Of coz if we have only one offer (Cityu/fork), we can still use fork to eat Chinese dishes (or Chinese laws).


Lastly, as for City, ncBB is correct that City has had a bad rep in the past. Hk people that I've spoken to, did not speak highly of the school. However, most of those people left HK in the 1990's. However, City apparently did address a lot of those concerns in the past few years. It's now reputably ranked by outside publications. There is no way I would term City a "diploma mill". Also it appears to be more connected with western/foriegn universities than the other two. I suspect that it will have more Westerners than the other two. That's either a plus or a minus, depending on your own personal view.

ANS: CityU has too many self-financed PGD, and local students can’t afford it, giving offers for foreign students who are rich is a very wise decision. Thanks telling me, maybe I know why janerichardson was pissed off, I did not know CityU actually put their great effort to advertise to oversea.

Anyhow, it all boils down to what you are looking for. If you are leaving right after the LLM back to your home country, than it really doesn't matter. I'd go for the school that's going to be the most convenient in terms of location, meeting new people and the program's time commitment. If you are going to try to stay in HK/China, I'd suggest HKU first, then second: City or CUHK. I think City and CUHK are equal at this point, with both having pluses and minuses. The other open university LLM programs I have no opinion on. Hope that helps.

ANS: However, in HK, CUHK is much much more famous than CityU, for Open university, just like oversea, we are free to enter when you meet their entry req. however, material itself is same level as other universities. I won’t let my daughter get in OUHK, never. I rather work hard to save $$ for her to study abroad if she can’t get in CUHK/HKUST (BBA), HKU(LAW) or CUHK(MED/PHARM).

quote
ncBB - I have read your response carefully. I would like to begin by stating that CityU is ranked in the top 200 universities in the world. This does not come about by being a community college diploma mill which is every student's last choice and who's only saving grace is its proximity to a shopping center. Rationally CityU has achieved a place in the world's top 200 after just 20 years in operation. In the Times rankings it is ranked higher than univerisites such as , Notre Dame, George Washington University Upsalla (Sweden) and Waseda (Japan). In the SJTU survey it ranks ahead of Nanjing U, Fudan and Korea University. It has a beautiful campus in a good location, is convenient for transportation, has an excellent orientation program for International students, provides the same number of class hours and teaching weeks as HKU, offers a more comprehensive list of classes than CUHK and has a large number of motivated international students. I really cannot stand you painting it in such a negative light. I have the following comments to make in relation to your answers to my original comments :

1.How can CUHK have any reputation regarding Chinese law when they haven't taught a single class in Chinese law in a degree program? Reputation is built up over time

ANS: Thats something behind the fact, when you read official history book, you trust the publisher and author, however, you cant ignore the chance something in the history book was untrue, even though the chance is low. The main reason is you cant take the time machine to get and see if it was not true unless you stand in front of the scene saw it personally by that time. Reputation can be different level in different place under different culture. The things behind the fact, I repeat here again, was the faculties in CityU resigned, I stood here and saw it while you did not. And then they were hired by CUHK, you did not stand here to see it too. It was not showed on the 2006 law school guide something on your hand too. And for Hong Kong people, CityU is still a community college in our heart, their name was upgrade to university because they followed what education bureau that changed all their degree from American 4 years to British 3 years at that year, not the same situation as some American colleges upgraded because they were getting better. By that time all potential colleges like www.hksyc.com.hk did not follow Bristish govt that changing to 3 years got no chance to upgrade their name from College to University.

RESPONSE - This still does not change the fact that reputation is built up over time. From what you are saying CUHK will have a good Chinese law program simply because they have recruited CityU professors. In this case CUHK is piggybacking on the reputation of their professors built while working for CityU yet you still belittle the CityU program failing to give it any credit. As for CityU still being a community college in our heart why dont you give it a rest? A university which ranks in the worlds top 200 is in no way shape or form a community college. I have never heard such ridiculous nonsense. Hong Kong residents with this attitude need to grow up.

2. You say that HKU have no experience in relation to Chinese law yet they have been offering a programme in it for many years. CUHK have not.

ANS: The have experience in law, but they were good at common law, not continental law, I have experience for writing English since 3 years old in HK, but I am still that poor, it was the quality problem, not experience, their quality to conduct Chinese law is low, even though they have exp, coz they input the resource in common law since it is a British style law school not Beijing style ok? We cant, sorry, compare apple to orange.

RESPONSE - You stated quite clearly Chinese law HKU know nothing This is an unequivocal statement. If HKU knows nothing of Chinese law after offering a program in it for years then CUHK must know considerably less having only this year established a system. You are also stating that just because HKU has the most experience in common law that it cannot also have experience in Chinese law. They are not mutually exclusive and a look at the resumes of HKUs professors show them to be very experienced indeed.

3. You say that CityU is a "diploma factory" - any facts to back this up?

ANS:Over 100 PGD, most PGD among 8 U, as I said before

RESPONSE - Well if evidence of offering a large number of taught post graduate degree programs is evidence of its operating as a diploma mill then CUHK, HKU, Oxford, Cambridge, NYU, Duke, University of Virginia etc. all must be diploma mills. Furthermore if NYU offers more taught postgraduate programs than any other university in New York does this make it a diploma mill also? I would say a university offering a large number of programs should be applauded for rsponding to the needs of the community. Again your reasoning is based on another Hong Kong prejudice.

4. Your "conclusion" contradicts the earlier statement you made about HKU.

ANS: Like what?

RESPONSE - In the main body of your piece you state that HKU knows nothing about Chinese law yet in your conclusion you rank it the best.

5.While the accomodation situation may be better in CUHK the accomodation is in Shatin while the postgraduate programs are in central, over an hour away, door to door.

Ans:You have to reconfirm the locations, they may subject to change, and how did you know its an hour away? What transportation you took and test it was an hour away?

RESPONSE - All taught postgraduate programs of CUHK are located in the bank of America tower in Central. This will not change. To quote the CUHK website "All postgraduate law courses in the School of Law are delivered in the central business district in Central on the Hong Kong Island."

Postgraduate student accommodation is offered in Shatin. Door to door it is at at least an hour. Walking from either the Jocky club or PGH 4,5 or 6 takes a minimum of 10 minutes to the University KCR station. The KCR takes 22 minutes to get to TST East. Transferring to the MTR takes another 10 minute walk. The MTR to Admiralty takes a further 5 minutes and a walk to the Bank of America Tower takes an additional 5 - 10 minutes. That is not factoring in waiting for trains. That leads to a two hour daily commute.

6. "People donated to CUHK not CityU" - people donate to both and naturally more people will donate to CUHK because it has been established longer and therefore has a greater alumni body.

ANS: No, you are wrong. Rich people in HK only donate big universities that have space for them to build the new tower named their names, CityU has zero space left. Zero. Please do research before reply, u r polly a lawyer, I am not. You should be much superior in word, fact, argument and research than me. Rich people, actually, most people in HK are too commercial, and selfish, they never donate 1 billion dollar just because the schools have longer history, be a sophisticated lawyer, not a naïve one please, and alumni not donate much as those famous American law schools.

RESPONSE - No you are wrong because you did not once specify rich people. You cannot deny that CityU alumni donate to CityU. From what you said you were denying that this happens. I stand by my earlier statement that more people donate to CUHK because it has been established longer. I fully realise that the amounts donated vary between univerisites. Furthermore my statements cannot rationally be considered naieve.

6. "CityU is a shop, not a school in our eyes" - Surely you can see how ridiculous this statement sounds.

ANS: OMG, it was my opinion, not statement, I am not a lawyer but a blue collar worker in Hong Kong only. Please re-read or ask other HKers when you arrive HK that what the meaning of Chinglish in our eyes ok?

RESPONSE - I was not referring to your words in our eyes I was referring to your statement that CityU is a shop, not a school. You are implying that they sell degrees for cash, effectively stating that no work on the part of the student is necessary. This is why your statement attracts ridicule.

8. "CityU was not a unviersity many years ago it was a college" - The same can be said for a lot of great universities world wide.

ANS: Please do a research, how ridiculous this statement sounds
Comparing CityU with great universities worldwide is not fair to them.

RESPONSE - You clearly misunderstood. You stated that CityU was once a college, intending to portray it in a negative light. I stated that the fact that an institution was once a college has absolutely no relevance. For example Princeton, Harvard and your very own CUHK which came about through the amalgamation of 3 colleges.

9. Do you think that the "opinions" of Hong Kong residents are more based on prejudice and traditions than on an a rational view of the programs, the calibre of the staff, the tendancy for innovation and achievements of graduates?

ANS: If you go learn China Law, you will know China Laws are based on prejudice. Please understand it is culture problem, we also think you compare cityu with great universities worldwide at the same level is based on your own prejudice too?

RESPONSE - I never stated once that they were on the same level. If you reread what I wrote you will see that what I was stating was the following idea ; The fact that a university was once classified as a college has absolutely no relevance to its academic quality.

10. I think a lot of people appreciate the rapid response of CityU when compared with the slow application process of the other Universities. Applicants like to know where they stand and there is no real reason why CUHK and HKU can't process applications on a rolling basis like CityU does.

ANS: We discussed too many times in Chinese educational forums (in Chinese language), any Universities in HK utilize rolling basis, they are categorized by HK students as dip factory. 500 people saying that may not be too wrong, if they have offers from CUHK or HKU, they will not pick CityU, it is not the fact but it is a phenomenon. I appreciate rapid response too, but why they did not take the offer and still waiting for last law school HKU?

RESPONSE - Firstly many did accept their offer. Secondly CityUs application procedure has had the effect of forcing CUHK and HKU into making their application processes more student friendly (online applications, extending deadlines). CUHK has even adopted a rolling based applications system. Does this make CUHK a diploma mill? Can you offer anything more than the prejudice of Hong Kong students when you criticize City University? We are well aware by now of the midguided preconceptions of Hong Kong students where they are told day in day out that all that matters is the name of the university they go to and other matters such as innovation, quality of student life, facilities, etc. have little or no relevance. It has reached such absurd heights that parents would rather send their children abroad to the USA where costs can run to $50,000 per year just so their child can avoid the stigma of going to a second tier university. In the West nowadays the person that matters so much more than the university they go to. Hong Kong residents are only harming themselves by continuing with these absurd, misguided misconceptions.

11. Exactly what qualifies you to make these statements? I was born in New York and am a "pure New Yorker" in as far as that concept exists. This does not qualify to hold up as fact my prejudicial opinions as to whether NYLS is better than Fordham or Columbia is better than NYU.

ANS: Yes, you are right lawyer, and I did not intend to be qualified to publish anything, it is just a forum, come on.

RESPONSE - I am clearly coming on. What I have a problem with is that your information is all subjective yet you are holding it out to be objective and are therefore doing a disservice to the legions of potential LLM students who read these boards. You speak of CityU with such venom that you may actually scare away potential students from what is, from a rational point of view, a professionally run, well managed, progressive, innovative university. This is what I have a problem with. Your plea asking students not to go to CityU should be setting off alarms bells for people. What is your interest in this? Why do you feel the need to poison the water so much?

I must conclude by stating that I do not mean to be in anyway offensive and I do of course respect your right to an opinion. I believe we all benefit from prolonged discussions such as these.

Regards,

Jane
ncBB - I have read your response carefully. I would like to begin by stating that CityU is ranked in the top 200 universities in the world. This does not come about by being a community college diploma mill which is every student's last choice and who's only saving grace is its proximity to a shopping center. Rationally CityU has achieved a place in the world's top 200 after just 20 years in operation. In the Times rankings it is ranked higher than univerisites such as , Notre Dame, George Washington University Upsalla (Sweden) and Waseda (Japan). In the SJTU survey it ranks ahead of Nanjing U, Fudan and Korea University. It has a beautiful campus in a good location, is convenient for transportation, has an excellent orientation program for International students, provides the same number of class hours and teaching weeks as HKU, offers a more comprehensive list of classes than CUHK and has a large number of motivated international students. I really cannot stand you painting it in such a negative light. I have the following comments to make in relation to your answers to my original comments :

1.How can CUHK have any reputation regarding Chinese law when they haven't taught a single class in Chinese law in a degree program? Reputation is built up over time

ANS: That’s something behind the fact, when you read official history book, you trust the publisher and author, however, you can’t ignore the chance something in the history book was untrue, even though the chance is low. The main reason is you can’t take the time machine to get and see if it was not true unless you stand in front of the scene saw it personally by that time. Reputation can be different level in different place under different culture. The things behind the fact, I repeat here again, was the faculties in CityU resigned, I stood here and saw it while you did not. And then they were hired by CUHK, you did not stand here to see it too. It was not showed on the 2006 law school guide something on your hand too. And for Hong Kong people, CityU is still a community college in our heart, their name was upgrade to university because they followed what education bureau that changed all their degree from American 4 years to British 3 years at that year, not the same situation as some American colleges upgraded because they were getting better. By that time all potential colleges like www.hksyc.com.hk did not follow Bristish gov’t that changing to 3 years got no chance to upgrade their name from College to University.

RESPONSE - This still does not change the fact that reputation is built up over time. From what you are saying CUHK will have a good Chinese law program simply because they have recruited CityU professors. In this case CUHK is piggybacking on the reputation of their professors built while working for CityU yet you still belittle the CityU program failing to give it any credit. As for CityU “still being a community college in our heart” why don’t you give it a rest? A university which ranks in the world’s top 200 is in no way shape or form a community college. I have never heard such ridiculous nonsense. Hong Kong residents with this attitude need to grow up.

2. You say that HKU have no experience in relation to Chinese law yet they have been offering a programme in it for many years. CUHK have not.

ANS: The have experience in law, but they were good at common law, not continental law, I have experience for writing English since 3 years old in HK, but I am still that poor, it was the quality problem, not experience, their quality to conduct Chinese law is low, even though they have exp, coz they input the resource in common law since it is a British style law school not Beijing style ok? We can’t, sorry, compare apple to orange.

RESPONSE - You stated quite clearly “Chinese law – HKU know nothing” This is an unequivocal statement. If HKU knows nothing of Chinese law after offering a program in it for years then CUHK must know considerably less having only this year established a system. You are also stating that just because HKU has the most experience in common law that it cannot also have experience in Chinese law. They are not mutually exclusive and a look at the resumes of HKU’s professors show them to be very experienced indeed.

3. You say that CityU is a "diploma factory" - any facts to back this up?

ANS:Over 100 PGD, most PGD among 8 U, as I said before

RESPONSE - Well if evidence of offering a large number of taught post graduate degree programs is evidence of its operating as a diploma mill then CUHK, HKU, Oxford, Cambridge, NYU, Duke, University of Virginia etc. all must be diploma mills. Furthermore if NYU offers more taught postgraduate programs than any other university in New York does this make it a diploma mill also? I would say a university offering a large number of programs should be applauded for rsponding to the needs of the community. Again your reasoning is based on another Hong Kong prejudice.

4. Your "conclusion" contradicts the earlier statement you made about HKU.

ANS: Like what?

RESPONSE - In the main body of your piece you state that HKU knows nothing about Chinese law yet in your conclusion you rank it the best.

5.While the accomodation situation may be better in CUHK the accomodation is in Shatin while the postgraduate programs are in central, over an hour away, door to door.

Ans:You have to reconfirm the locations, they may subject to change, and how did you know it’s an hour away? What transportation you took and test it was an hour away?

RESPONSE - All taught postgraduate programs of CUHK are located in the bank of America tower in Central. This will not change. To quote the CUHK website "All postgraduate law courses in the School of Law are delivered in the central business district in Central on the Hong Kong Island."

Postgraduate student accommodation is offered in Shatin. Door to door it is at at least an hour. Walking from either the Jocky club or PGH 4,5 or 6 takes a minimum of 10 minutes to the University KCR station. The KCR takes 22 minutes to get to TST East. Transferring to the MTR takes another 10 minute walk. The MTR to Admiralty takes a further 5 minutes and a walk to the Bank of America Tower takes an additional 5 - 10 minutes. That is not factoring in waiting for trains. That leads to a two hour daily commute.

6. "People donated to CUHK not CityU" - people donate to both and naturally more people will donate to CUHK because it has been established longer and therefore has a greater alumni body.

ANS: No, you are wrong. Rich people in HK only donate big universities that have space for them to build the new tower named their names, CityU has zero space left. Zero. Please do research before reply, u r polly a lawyer, I am not. You should be much superior in word, fact, argument and research than me. Rich people, actually, most people in HK are too commercial, and selfish, they never donate 1 billion dollar just because the schools have longer history, be a sophisticated lawyer, not a naïve one please, and alumni not donate much as those famous American law schools.

RESPONSE - No you are wrong because you did not once specify rich people. You cannot deny that CityU alumni donate to CityU. From what you said you were denying that this happens. I stand by my earlier statement that more people donate to CUHK because it has been established longer. I fully realise that the amounts donated vary between univerisites. Furthermore my statements cannot rationally be considered naieve.

6. "CityU is a shop, not a school in our eyes" - Surely you can see how ridiculous this statement sounds.

ANS: OMG, it was my opinion, not statement, I am not a lawyer but a blue collar worker in Hong Kong only. Please re-read or ask other HKers when you arrive HK that what the meaning of Chinglish “in our eyes” ok?

RESPONSE - I was not referring to your words “in our eyes” I was referring to your statement that CityU is a shop, not a school. You are implying that they sell degrees for cash, effectively stating that no work on the part of the student is necessary. This is why your statement attracts ridicule.

8. "CityU was not a unviersity many years ago it was a college" - The same can be said for a lot of great universities world wide.

ANS: Please do a research, how “ridiculous” this statement sounds
Comparing CityU with “great universities worldwide” is not fair to them.

RESPONSE - You clearly misunderstood. You stated that CityU was once a college, intending to portray it in a negative light. I stated that the fact that an institution was once a college has absolutely no relevance. For example Princeton, Harvard and your very own CUHK which came about through the amalgamation of 3 colleges.

9. Do you think that the "opinions" of Hong Kong residents are more based on prejudice and traditions than on an a rational view of the programs, the calibre of the staff, the tendancy for innovation and achievements of graduates?

ANS: If you go learn China Law, you will know China Laws are based on prejudice. Please understand it is culture problem, we also think you compare cityu with great universities worldwide at the same level is based on your own prejudice too?

RESPONSE - I never stated once that they were on the same level. If you reread what I wrote you will see that what I was stating was the following idea ; The fact that a university was once classified as a college has absolutely no relevance to its academic quality.

10. I think a lot of people appreciate the rapid response of CityU when compared with the slow application process of the other Universities. Applicants like to know where they stand and there is no real reason why CUHK and HKU can't process applications on a rolling basis like CityU does.

ANS: We discussed too many times in Chinese educational forums (in Chinese language), any Universities in HK utilize rolling basis, they are categorized by HK students as dip factory. 500 people saying that may not be too wrong, if they have offers from CUHK or HKU, they will not pick CityU, it is not the fact but it is a phenomenon. I appreciate rapid response too, but why they did not take the offer and still waiting for last law school HKU?

RESPONSE - Firstly many did accept their offer. Secondly CityU’s application procedure has had the effect of forcing CUHK and HKU into making their application processes more student friendly (online applications, extending deadlines). CUHK has even adopted a rolling based applications system. Does this make CUHK a diploma mill? Can you offer anything more than the prejudice of Hong Kong students when you criticize City University? We are well aware by now of the midguided preconceptions of Hong Kong students where they are told day in day out that all that matters is the name of the university they go to and other matters such as innovation, quality of student life, facilities, etc. have little or no relevance. It has reached such absurd heights that parents would rather send their children abroad to the USA where costs can run to $50,000 per year just so their child can avoid the stigma of going to a second tier university. In the West nowadays the person that matters so much more than the university they go to. Hong Kong residents are only harming themselves by continuing with these absurd, misguided misconceptions.

11. Exactly what qualifies you to make these statements? I was born in New York and am a "pure New Yorker" in as far as that concept exists. This does not qualify to hold up as fact my prejudicial opinions as to whether NYLS is better than Fordham or Columbia is better than NYU.

ANS: Yes, you are right lawyer, and I did not intend to be qualified to publish anything, it is just a forum, come on.

RESPONSE - I am clearly coming on. What I have a problem with is that your information is all subjective yet you are holding it out to be objective and are therefore doing a disservice to the legions of potential LLM students who read these boards. You speak of CityU with such venom that you may actually scare away potential students from what is, from a rational point of view, a professionally run, well managed, progressive, innovative university. This is what I have a problem with. Your plea asking students not to go to CityU should be setting off alarms bells for people. What is your interest in this? Why do you feel the need to poison the water so much?

I must conclude by stating that I do not mean to be in anyway offensive and I do of course respect your right to an opinion. I believe we all benefit from prolonged discussions such as these.

Regards,

Jane
quote
I like you Jane!

You must be a pretty awesome person!
These potential Lawyers need to be put in their place. These days they seem to think they can comment on everything and be right!
Yeah this is a forum...why make such a big deal out of nothing?!
Jeez, I hope I don't make it to the "long winded" lawyer level.
I like you Jane!

You must be a pretty awesome person!
These potential Lawyers need to be put in their place. These days they seem to think they can comment on everything and be right!
Yeah this is a forum...why make such a big deal out of nothing?!
Jeez, I hope I don't make it to the "long winded" lawyer level.
quote
mmelling
All I have to say is wow . . . . and, how does everybody know that CUHK's p-grad programs are in the Bank of America Tower? I got my admittance materials and I didn't see anything saying so. I'm not saying anybody's wrong, just curious because I would like to know where I might like to actually live and all.

Thanks
All I have to say is wow . . . . and, how does everybody know that CUHK's p-grad programs are in the Bank of America Tower? I got my admittance materials and I didn't see anything saying so. I'm not saying anybody's wrong, just curious because I would like to know where I might like to actually live and all.

Thanks
quote
jesswill7
Phoned HKU this morning and was told I got in! Wheyhey!

I look forward to meeting everyone in HK this fall.

Regards,

Jess
Phoned HKU this morning and was told I got in! Wheyhey!

I look forward to meeting everyone in HK this fall.

Regards,

Jess
quote
Quoting mmelling
"how does everybody know that CUHK's p-grad programs are in the Bank of America Tower?"

Look at http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/cpr/pressrelease/060111e3.htm

And also the 4th paragraph on the following page

http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/law/llmcbl/timesLocations.html

Regards,

Jane
Quoting mmelling
"how does everybody know that CUHK's p-grad programs are in the Bank of America Tower?"

Look at http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/cpr/pressrelease/060111e3.htm

And also the 4th paragraph on the following page

http://www.cuhk.edu.hk/law/llmcbl/timesLocations.html

Regards,

Jane

quote

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