Working in US after LLM


casper

Hi guys,
I've been sifting through these threads, but still can't find a solid answer for my question. I'm doing an LLB in the UK and want to do an LLM program in the US afterwards - with a view to working in NY or PA for good. I know they can supply me with a student visa while i'm doing the LLM program (if i get in!) for one year, but what about after that? I'll need to take the Bar after the LLM - how do foreign law graduates sort out their visas eventually for working in the US? How helpful are companies in the US in these situations?

Hope that makes sense...anybody have any good advice for me?

:)

Hi guys,
I've been sifting through these threads, but still can't find a solid answer for my question. I'm doing an LLB in the UK and want to do an LLM program in the US afterwards - with a view to working in NY or PA for good. I know they can supply me with a student visa while i'm doing the LLM program (if i get in!) for one year, but what about after that? I'll need to take the Bar after the LLM - how do foreign law graduates sort out their visas eventually for working in the US? How helpful are companies in the US in these situations?

Hope that makes sense...anybody have any good advice for me?

:)
quote
Stephanye

hello Casper,

I'm also going next year to do an LLM in the US.
After one year, you can get a visa extension for legal practice only for one year more, all foreign students can get this extra year after finishing school.
Afterwards, it's different, you must find a firm that sponsors you to get a work permit (for a limited time, like 2 to 5 years). But the truth is that NY firms do not hire foreign LLM grads, I mean big firms. You can try your best to find a mid size or small firm but it is still hard because firms mainly hire JD grads.

hello Casper,

I'm also going next year to do an LLM in the US.
After one year, you can get a visa extension for legal practice only for one year more, all foreign students can get this extra year after finishing school.
Afterwards, it's different, you must find a firm that sponsors you to get a work permit (for a limited time, like 2 to 5 years). But the truth is that NY firms do not hire foreign LLM grads, I mean big firms. You can try your best to find a mid size or small firm but it is still hard because firms mainly hire JD grads.
quote
casper

Hi Stephanye,
Thanks a lot for replying :)
It seems it sort of defeats the purpose to spend a year (and a lot of money) studying US law, and then not be able to work in the US. I understand big firms would prefer JD graduates, it's understandable. I just hope it's possible to get a job with a small firm - do you know how i could find out more about this? Do you know if it would be easier to get a job in New York (or any other state)?
I'm studying law in the UK at the moment, and grew up in the US - i'm in danger of losing my green card, though, and want to prepare for the worst!
What are you planning on doing after your LLM program and where have you applied?

Hi Stephanye,
Thanks a lot for replying :)
It seems it sort of defeats the purpose to spend a year (and a lot of money) studying US law, and then not be able to work in the US. I understand big firms would prefer JD graduates, it's understandable. I just hope it's possible to get a job with a small firm - do you know how i could find out more about this? Do you know if it would be easier to get a job in New York (or any other state)?
I'm studying law in the UK at the moment, and grew up in the US - i'm in danger of losing my green card, though, and want to prepare for the worst!
What are you planning on doing after your LLM program and where have you applied?
quote
Stephanye

Casper,
I know this is so ridiculous not to find a job in the US after spending all this money but there was a time where LLM grads were easily hired into big firms. This rejection is stupid because u'll pass the Bar like any JD grad but this is reality. Anyway I still beleive that if u look hard you can find and during your LLM year try to have the best grades. And the school organise job fairs and there the alumni network, the career service,etc.
Is it definitely more easy to find a job in NY but NY firms generally hire students that went to a law school in NY and other prestigious law school like Harvard Yale etc.
I'm a french grad and next year i'm goin to Albany Law School NY, I'll be part of an exchange program so i'm not payin any tuition. I would like to specialise in IP or Entertainment Law and try to find a job out there. See I'm not goin to a prestigious school but I still think it's possible !

Casper,
I know this is so ridiculous not to find a job in the US after spending all this money but there was a time where LLM grads were easily hired into big firms. This rejection is stupid because u'll pass the Bar like any JD grad but this is reality. Anyway I still beleive that if u look hard you can find and during your LLM year try to have the best grades. And the school organise job fairs and there the alumni network, the career service,etc.
Is it definitely more easy to find a job in NY but NY firms generally hire students that went to a law school in NY and other prestigious law school like Harvard Yale etc.
I'm a french grad and next year i'm goin to Albany Law School NY, I'll be part of an exchange program so i'm not payin any tuition. I would like to specialise in IP or Entertainment Law and try to find a job out there. See I'm not goin to a prestigious school but I still think it's possible !
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casper

Brilliant...i too want to study IP law, it's pretty exciting. I just didn't want to go through the process of applying as a foreign law graduate to LLM programs, and then be turned down by all the US firms...that would be so disappointing!
I'm definitely going to do my best, hopefully hard work over the next couple of years will pay off when i'm applying for jobs in the US :)
All the best, and thanks again...you've definitely helped me out :)

Brilliant...i too want to study IP law, it's pretty exciting. I just didn't want to go through the process of applying as a foreign law graduate to LLM programs, and then be turned down by all the US firms...that would be so disappointing!
I'm definitely going to do my best, hopefully hard work over the next couple of years will pay off when i'm applying for jobs in the US :)
All the best, and thanks again...you've definitely helped me out :)
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rey

Hi Stephanye,

So you're French ?
I also speak French (I'm from Belgium), I will also do a LLM, and I also want to specialize in IP.
I choose to apply to Berkeley, Stanford, NYU and Columbia for that purpose. I also applied to HLS.

Where did you study law ?

Hi Stephanye,

So you're French ?
I also speak French (I'm from Belgium), I will also do a LLM, and I also want to specialize in IP.
I choose to apply to Berkeley, Stanford, NYU and Columbia for that purpose. I also applied to HLS.

Where did you study law ?
quote

Hi all,

@Casper
I am in exactly the same situation as you are! I am currently in my final year of Law School in the UK. I am planning to take a gap year and apply for LLM in the UK and in the US for 2006 entry. I am also primarily interested in either Tax or IP/ Patents. As I am international student in the UK (outside EU), I have found it a bit difficult to secure training contracts. I am curious as to whether you are an international student and if so, did you face any difficulties / hurdles looking for a job in the UK (or if your decision to apply to US is a purely personal one).
As to your working in the US after your LLM in the NY, you will be pleased to know that you can appear for the NY Bar if you have completed a 3 yr Law degree from Oxford, Cambridge or London Uni and would NOT need an LLM. I am almost certain that the same holds true for any recognised Uni in the UK. You can prepare for the NY Bar via BarBri in the UK which offers weekend lectures (London)or study at home courses and they would also be able to advise you regarding whether your specific Law degree would grant you exemption from a US LLM. These courses amount to almost £3000.
As for PA, you would need to have studied 30 credits at an ABA approved Law School (standard US LLM counts for around 24) in specified subjects. You would also need to have been admitted and in good standing at the bar in a foreign jurisdiction (e.g. solicitor or barrister in the UK) and must have practised in the jurisdiction for 5 out of the last 8 years.

I believe that NY has by far the most relaxed rules for admittance of UK trained law students/ lawyers and personally I am still undecided as to whether to just directly study for the NY Bar or to spread out my options and do an LLM so that I can be eligible for a few other states. I managed to download the document which lays down the exact requirements for each state. Let me know if you want me to mail it to you.

By the way, which Uni are you from???

@Stephanye
Cheers for the info regarding working in the US after LLM. I was wondering if you knew of international lawyers securing work in the US post LLM. If so was it mainly in firms which had offices/ partner firms in the applicants' home jurisdiction? I merely ask this as I have heard it is very difficult to do so otherwise.

Cheers & good luck all!

Hi all,

@Casper
I am in exactly the same situation as you are! I am currently in my final year of Law School in the UK. I am planning to take a gap year and apply for LLM in the UK and in the US for 2006 entry. I am also primarily interested in either Tax or IP/ Patents. As I am international student in the UK (outside EU), I have found it a bit difficult to secure training contracts. I am curious as to whether you are an international student and if so, did you face any difficulties / hurdles looking for a job in the UK (or if your decision to apply to US is a purely personal one).
As to your working in the US after your LLM in the NY, you will be pleased to know that you can appear for the NY Bar if you have completed a 3 yr Law degree from Oxford, Cambridge or London Uni and would NOT need an LLM. I am almost certain that the same holds true for any recognised Uni in the UK. You can prepare for the NY Bar via BarBri in the UK which offers weekend lectures (London)or study at home courses and they would also be able to advise you regarding whether your specific Law degree would grant you exemption from a US LLM. These courses amount to almost £3000.
As for PA, you would need to have studied 30 credits at an ABA approved Law School (standard US LLM counts for around 24) in specified subjects. You would also need to have been admitted and in good standing at the bar in a foreign jurisdiction (e.g. solicitor or barrister in the UK) and must have practised in the jurisdiction for 5 out of the last 8 years.

I believe that NY has by far the most relaxed rules for admittance of UK trained law students/ lawyers and personally I am still undecided as to whether to just directly study for the NY Bar or to spread out my options and do an LLM so that I can be eligible for a few other states. I managed to download the document which lays down the exact requirements for each state. Let me know if you want me to mail it to you.

By the way, which Uni are you from???

@Stephanye
Cheers for the info regarding working in the US after LLM. I was wondering if you knew of international lawyers securing work in the US post LLM. If so was it mainly in firms which had offices/ partner firms in the applicants' home jurisdiction? I merely ask this as I have heard it is very difficult to do so otherwise.

Cheers & good luck all!
quote
GML

shil_aditya,
could you please mail me the document concerning the states' requirements for bar exam? My e-mail is maria_gri@hotmail.com
Thanks a lot!!!

shil_aditya,
could you please mail me the document concerning the states' requirements for bar exam? My e-mail is maria_gri@hotmail.com
Thanks a lot!!!
quote
Lawyer

Hi! I am a fianl year student of LL.B from India. Folks, Pls guide on whether US law firms are open to taking students after an LL.M at US? IS it possible to land up in a firm after the bar exaPls Advice!!


Hi! I am a fianl year student of LL.B from India. Folks, Pls guide on whether US law firms are open to taking students after an LL.M at US? IS it possible to land up in a firm after the bar exaPls Advice!!
quote

Hi all,

@Maria
I have sent you the mail. Let me know if you do not receive it.

@Lawyer
Check out some of the discussions in the various message boards. There is a lot of info on Bar requirements for the USA. I am from India myself but am doing my LLB in the UK. Feel free to mail me if you have any queries. My id is shil_aditya@yahoo.com .

Good luck!

Hi all,

@Maria
I have sent you the mail. Let me know if you do not receive it.

@Lawyer
Check out some of the discussions in the various message boards. There is a lot of info on Bar requirements for the USA. I am from India myself but am doing my LLB in the UK. Feel free to mail me if you have any queries. My id is shil_aditya@yahoo.com .

Good luck!
quote
sc2411

It is hard but not impossible for a foreign student to get a good job in New York. A friend of mine is doing his LLM at Columbia and has already been offered a job at one of the top five law firms in New York. He is Thai, but he got his first law degree from Australia and had been working at Minter Ellison for a few years. He got a very good grades in the Fall semester at Columbia, too.

It is hard but not impossible for a foreign student to get a good job in New York. A friend of mine is doing his LLM at Columbia and has already been offered a job at one of the top five law firms in New York. He is Thai, but he got his first law degree from Australia and had been working at Minter Ellison for a few years. He got a very good grades in the Fall semester at Columbia, too.
quote
Jamie

Hello all,

I totally agree with sc2411. It is entirely possible as a foreign LLM to find an excellent job in NY and many other states. The difficulty some foreign LLMs are having, I believe, is tied to the weak labor market for attorneys in the US. I have many friends who were comparative LLMs at Miami who found good jobs in Florida. This is in spite of the fact that on those with JDs can take the Florida Bar Exam. At least in Miami, where I live, top firms are ALWAYS looking for LLMs with top credentials with experience/education from many South American countries. Friends of mine in NY say that lawyers from Asian countries who also have American LLMs and top credentials are in demand too. I think the bottom line is to excel in your LLM studies.

Sorry too make this a long post but I thought this was was of interest. There are Law Schools with LLM programs (like University of Miami) that will allow you to convert your LLM too a JD, I do not know specifics but is possible.

Also the two states I have heard allow attorneys with foreign degrees but US LLMs to sit for the Bar exam are New York and California. Check out the specifics because I honestly do not know whether this is entirely true of any of the details.

Their websites are:

http://www.nybarexam.org
http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_generic.jsp?cid=10115

Hope this is helpful,

J


Hello all,

I totally agree with sc2411. It is entirely possible as a foreign LLM to find an excellent job in NY and many other states. The difficulty some foreign LLMs are having, I believe, is tied to the weak labor market for attorneys in the US. I have many friends who were comparative LLMs at Miami who found good jobs in Florida. This is in spite of the fact that on those with JDs can take the Florida Bar Exam. At least in Miami, where I live, top firms are ALWAYS looking for LLMs with top credentials with experience/education from many South American countries. Friends of mine in NY say that lawyers from Asian countries who also have American LLMs and top credentials are in demand too. I think the bottom line is to excel in your LLM studies.

Sorry too make this a long post but I thought this was was of interest. There are Law Schools with LLM programs (like University of Miami) that will allow you to convert your LLM too a JD, I do not know specifics but is possible.

Also the two states I have heard allow attorneys with foreign degrees but US LLMs to sit for the Bar exam are New York and California. Check out the specifics because I honestly do not know whether this is entirely true of any of the details.

Their websites are:

http://www.nybarexam.org
http://www.calbar.ca.gov/state/calbar/calbar_generic.jsp?cid=10115

Hope this is helpful,

J
quote

Hey Everyone

I may end up re-iterating what some may have said already, but here is my 2 cents.

I obtained my law degree from a University in Ireland, and then went onto get my LLM at Fordham Law School in New York. The program is great as it is at many other schools. BUT, as most of your will be aware, the job market is only now on the rise. Unless you are a straight A student, from a top class university outside of the US, with some years of experience AND good grads at your University in the US during your LLM, AND you have a bit of luck, then MAYBE you will get a position at a 'large' NYC law firm. You need to be very realistic. Itâs a lot of money, both the fees and living in NYC for a year studying and its something you must want.

As stated by some others you are 'entitled' to a one years working visa having finished your LLM. As for finding a job, many universities have job fairs at the beginning of the first semester, however it can be difficult to even 'get' an interview. Many, myself included, went around and handed out resumes and asked the interviewers if they would meet with me later. Some did, some did not. There will be dinners, functions and other social gatherings, all of which could end up with a meeting or interview.

Its hard work. 'Top' firms recruit 'top' graduates from the top 20 law schools and of those the top in each class. Also remember that most top firms will recruit from their summer associate program and that by the time you are applying to them they will have filled the positions for the forthcoming year. The job fairs at most schools will be interviewing 1L and 2Ls.

Is it impossible to get a job in NYC? NO, but like I said before you need to be realistic. Use any contacts you have. Create new ones. Go to the alumni dinners of your Law school where you are doing your LLM. If you want to be with a law firm then aim at smaller mid sized or specialized firms. If you do well you can always move up to larger firms later on. Itâs not impossible. Consider working 'in house'. Corporations have large compliance departments, as do financial houses.

I wish everyone the very best. If you do have any more questions just ask away on here and i will do my best to help you. Good luck,

Alexander

Hey Everyone

I may end up re-iterating what some may have said already, but here is my 2 cents.

I obtained my law degree from a University in Ireland, and then went onto get my LLM at Fordham Law School in New York. The program is great as it is at many other schools. BUT, as most of your will be aware, the job market is only now on the rise. Unless you are a straight A student, from a top class university outside of the US, with some years of experience AND good grads at your University in the US during your LLM, AND you have a bit of luck, then MAYBE you will get a position at a 'large' NYC law firm. You need to be very realistic. It’s a lot of money, both the fees and living in NYC for a year studying and its something you must want.

As stated by some others you are 'entitled' to a one years working visa having finished your LLM. As for finding a job, many universities have job fairs at the beginning of the first semester, however it can be difficult to even 'get' an interview. Many, myself included, went around and handed out resumes and asked the interviewers if they would meet with me later. Some did, some did not. There will be dinners, functions and other social gatherings, all of which could end up with a meeting or interview.

Its hard work. 'Top' firms recruit 'top' graduates from the top 20 law schools and of those the top in each class. Also remember that most top firms will recruit from their summer associate program and that by the time you are applying to them they will have filled the positions for the forthcoming year. The job fairs at most schools will be interviewing 1L and 2Ls.

Is it impossible to get a job in NYC? NO, but like I said before you need to be realistic. Use any contacts you have. Create new ones. Go to the alumni dinners of your Law school where you are doing your LLM. If you want to be with a law firm then aim at smaller mid sized or specialized firms. If you do well you can always move up to larger firms later on. It’s not impossible. Consider working 'in house'. Corporations have large compliance departments, as do financial houses.

I wish everyone the very best. If you do have any more questions just ask away on here and i will do my best to help you. Good luck,

Alexander
quote
peggyw77

Hi Alexander,

Thanks a lot for your detailed insight. It is really helpful. After reviewing some much info on this board, I guess I hold pretty realistic expectation now as to job in US after LLM.

I have a few questions for you:
When you followed law schools recruiting schedule, did you get to get any information about mid to small law firms? I worried that only big firms' info is easiler to access. Besides, will mid/small firms have the demand to hire foreign LLMs? Do you recommend any other means to look for a job besides following school's recruiting schedule (for example, classified add in news papers)?

If you don't mind, I am interested in knowing a little bit about your personal experience. Are you currently working for a US firm?

Thanks inadvance~
-Peggy

Hi Alexander,

Thanks a lot for your detailed insight. It is really helpful. After reviewing some much info on this board, I guess I hold pretty realistic expectation now as to job in US after LLM.

I have a few questions for you:
When you followed law schools recruiting schedule, did you get to get any information about mid to small law firms? I worried that only big firms' info is easiler to access. Besides, will mid/small firms have the demand to hire foreign LLMs? Do you recommend any other means to look for a job besides following school's recruiting schedule (for example, classified add in news papers)?

If you don't mind, I am interested in knowing a little bit about your personal experience. Are you currently working for a US firm?

Thanks inadvance~
-Peggy
quote

@shi_aditya or Maria_Gri

Can you please forward the document ot my e-mail too? It is marigraminhani@yahoo.com.

Thanks a lot,

Marilia

@shi_aditya or Maria_Gri

Can you please forward the document ot my e-mail too? It is marigraminhani@yahoo.com.

Thanks a lot,

Marilia
quote

Hi Marilia,

I have sent you the mail. Let me know if you do not receive it.

Good luck!

Hi Marilia,

I have sent you the mail. Let me know if you do not receive it.

Good luck!
quote
casper

Thanks so much for all the useful info everyone!

shil_aditya, to answer your questions...I went to highschool in the US but am originally from Scotland, so was able to do an LLB here as a home student. Even if Edinburgh Uni is recognised as a top university (is it?) and I can just go ahead and sit the NY Bar...I think I'd like to do the US LLM anyway. It seems like it would give you more options and give you a better knowledge of US law - put it this way, if i was a US firm, i would like for students who had put in the extra effort with the LLM!
Hmm, PA looks out of the question i guess, i didn't know the state required so many years of practice first.
By the way, could you email me the document for states' Bar requirements too? (clairpear@hotmail.com) Thanks.

Jamie and Alexander, thanks for all your useful info on getting jobs after the LLM. It seems like it's not impossible to get a job, but still difficult. I'd love to go to Fordham, that sounds great.

Alexander, do you have any suggestions as to what i can do in the UK in the meantime to better my chances of a good LLM and good job post-LLM later on?
Are you planning on working in the US after your LLM? or have you started working there already?

:)

Thanks so much for all the useful info everyone!

shil_aditya, to answer your questions...I went to highschool in the US but am originally from Scotland, so was able to do an LLB here as a home student. Even if Edinburgh Uni is recognised as a top university (is it?) and I can just go ahead and sit the NY Bar...I think I'd like to do the US LLM anyway. It seems like it would give you more options and give you a better knowledge of US law - put it this way, if i was a US firm, i would like for students who had put in the extra effort with the LLM!
Hmm, PA looks out of the question i guess, i didn't know the state required so many years of practice first.
By the way, could you email me the document for states' Bar requirements too? (clairpear@hotmail.com) Thanks.

Jamie and Alexander, thanks for all your useful info on getting jobs after the LLM. It seems like it's not impossible to get a job, but still difficult. I'd love to go to Fordham, that sounds great.

Alexander, do you have any suggestions as to what i can do in the UK in the meantime to better my chances of a good LLM and good job post-LLM later on?
Are you planning on working in the US after your LLM? or have you started working there already?

:)
quote

Hi casper,

I have sent you the mail. Let me know if you do not receive it. I can understand why you want to pursue an LLM in the US. Studying in a top US school would be an amazing experience and I would love to do it. However, it can be an expensive affair ($50,000 min) for an international student, especially if you do not get aid. Contrast that with the practical advantages of studying for the Bar in UK (£3000) and just going down to NYC to appear for it.
Good luck in whatever you chose to do!
Oh and btw, Edinburgh Uni is definitely one of the top Unis for Law!!

Hi casper,

I have sent you the mail. Let me know if you do not receive it. I can understand why you want to pursue an LLM in the US. Studying in a top US school would be an amazing experience and I would love to do it. However, it can be an expensive affair ($50,000 min) for an international student, especially if you do not get aid. Contrast that with the practical advantages of studying for the Bar in UK (£3000) and just going down to NYC to appear for it.
Good luck in whatever you chose to do!
Oh and btw, Edinburgh Uni is definitely one of the top Unis for Law!!

quote

Hi guys,
Could anyone tell me if it is as difficult to get into a good LLM in the States as I've been led to believe. I did my law degree in Ireland and I am going to do the New York bar in July. I'd love to go travelling for a year but now I'm being advised that I'd need a good LLM from the UK or Ireland to stand a chance of getting into NYU, Duke or any of the US law schools I'm considering. Is this true?

Hi guys,
Could anyone tell me if it is as difficult to get into a good LLM in the States as I've been led to believe. I did my law degree in Ireland and I am going to do the New York bar in July. I'd love to go travelling for a year but now I'm being advised that I'd need a good LLM from the UK or Ireland to stand a chance of getting into NYU, Duke or any of the US law schools I'm considering. Is this true?
quote
Anurag

Hi guys!

This is a real cool site.

I am a law student studying in India and intend to go to the US for an LLM degree in September 2006. Could someone please advice me as to how easy or difficult is to get work as a litigator in the US as my primary area of interest is litigation? Also, can someone advice as to which are the practice areas which involve the bulk of litigation work in the US? Thanks.

Hi guys!

This is a real cool site.

I am a law student studying in India and intend to go to the US for an LLM degree in September 2006. Could someone please advice me as to how easy or difficult is to get work as a litigator in the US as my primary area of interest is litigation? Also, can someone advice as to which are the practice areas which involve the bulk of litigation work in the US? Thanks.
quote

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