Hi, I am currently in a T3 law school planning to specialize in tax and apply tax llm after school. Well my school offers a list of classes under tax and below is what it offers.

* Business Entities Tax
* Business Organizations
* Corporate Finance
* Debtor and Creditor
* Federal Estate and Gift Tax
* Federal Income Tax
* International Tax
* State and Local Tax
* Trusts and Estates

I hear some people on the board saying how they have like 6 or 7 tax classes before applying to llm and I'm thinking, "Hmm we only have 5 tax classes to be strict according to that list." Do you think llm programs will only look at the grades of the 5 tax classes above or look at other classes on the list since they could help or be related to tax but not strictly tax classes?

I am thinking about applying to GULC, UF, and UW (if i don't get into the two) after finishing my JD. I want to get some idea of what kind of GPA, tax grades, number of tax classes to take and internship/extracurricular activities I need to get into GULC or UF.

Well my first semester grade kind of sucked because of this outlier in crim law but I'm going to bring it up. I became worried that I might not have the GPA to make it in the end. Any advice would be appreciated.

Hi,
I don't think it really matters how many tax courses you take during your JD. However, it is clear evidence for the admissions comittee that you have a true interest in taxation.
The courses I would take from that list that would help in the further LLM are:
- Federal Income Tax
- International Tax
- Business Entities Tax.
Most people in the LLMs have from 1 to 5 tax courses during the JD...
If you really like taxation, you'll do well in these three courses.
Good luck!

Thank you for your information! Yeah I am hoping I will do well in those classes. From what I can tell so far, I really like my business law class now and the whole accounting chapter and all the equations. I am definitely a quantitative thinker who like to work with numbers and flowcharts (what am i doing in law school haha). But I like law. So do you think any of those learning traits would help me out in tax law courses?

And also, about the grades, assume in the worst case that I don't make it to top 30% by the end of 3L but let's say I'm only top 50%. If I do really well in tax classes and get some experience like an externship at a tax court, will I still have decent chance of being admitted at either GULC or UF?

Anybody?

If you are interested in tax law, start with Federal Income Tax first to see if it suits you, and if so, take all tax courses that you can and are interested in. I took 3 classes in tax and loved all of them, and also took Wills, Trusts, & Estates, + Business & Estate planning courses (which were about 85% tax). Most LL.M. programs require at least Federal Income Tax. Don't sweat it if you can't take more than that, but taking more tax classes increases favor with the LL.M. admissions committee. I agree with quentin - you'll definitely soar in tax classes if it's your thing - with tax, I kind of think either a person gets it (and gets it well) or is clueless and absolutely hates it (henceforth the bad rep tax classes have in law school). Also, try to work in tax law over the summers. I spent my two summers at the IRS in D.C., and I think that experience carried immense weight with the LL.M. admissions committee at GULC (and helped overshadow my sub-par first-year grades).

As for being a quantitative thinker and working with numbers - that's definitely a plus for tax law. I'm the same way, and often wondered how I ended up in law school (and why I didn't become an engineer or statistician, etc.) ...but, as I found out, tax law is definitely my area, and a place I can really put to use those quantitative skills.

I just got into GULC on early-decision for my LL.M. in Tax + Estate Planning Certification, after graduating (last May, '07) in the top 38% of my class (inaugural class of a brand-new, ABA-accredited law school). In law school I took only 3 tax classes, and am guessing it was a combination of my classes, IRS experience, and recommendation from my supervisor at the Service that carried most weight with the LL.M. admissions committee at GULC. I highly recommend getting an internship in tax law - tax court would be awesome - and this will definitely help make up for any low grades or G.P.A. Best of luck!!

Wow, thank you for such great information! It was really helpful to know that GULC Tax LLM admission is not all about the GPA but looks more at your potential to succeed in tax. I was also thinking the first tax class to take may be the federal income and you confirmed it. Also, I just got an email from my school's career service about the externship at the state tax court for 1Ls and 2Ls this summer so I'm crossing my finger that they would accept me though my first semester grades weren't that good.

So you said you got into GULC for LLM in tax + estate planning certification. Did you have to apply and be admitted to the certification program in the beginning if you want to do any certifications?

Wow - a tax court internship would be an incredible opportunity! Definitely recommend applying... And don't worry about those grades - I take it you are a second-semester 1L? If so, things will start looking up for you - nothing is ever as bad as that first semester of law school! Yikes...what a nightmare that fortunately for both of us, is OVER. (yay!) Yes, I did get into GULC for both the LLM in Tax + EP Certification - had to apply for both at the same time and be admitted to both (I think this is the rule for all certifications) - and I'm hoping that if I change my mind along the way and decide to go 100% tax w/ no EP, they won't mind ... but figured I should go ahead and get into both and decide later.

Hey that's great that they let you change your mind in the middle of the certification program. Yeah, I'm so glad the first semester is over! The first semester was so hard and I did not know what I was doing. I will probably do better this semester since I went over with every professor from last semester about what I did wrong... and I found out a lot of the advices you find on commercial outlines or other info session are flat out wrong. That was kind of upsetting. :( It's kind of sad to see how some students with good grades come to classes all dressed up in a suit like they have an interview while I will probably not dress any better than my old pair of jeans until hopefully next year. haha But oh well, at least now I know what I need to put on the exam, which professors are looking for.

And yeah about the tax court, it is not an internship but it's an externship at tax court. Well my school is pretty close to the state supreme court and the capitol so we have good opportunity for government experiences. So I mean, the externship is not as impressive as an internship but I hope this will still be a big plus for me when I apply for tax llm.

Hey thanks so much for your information.

Hooray for being done with 1L Fall ... I hope things are already looking up for you this Spring semester! I know what you mean about outlines - most of them are very disappointing. I highly recommend one particular commercial series, though - the only one I found to be helpful and always correct, and the only one I trusted and used - it's the "Sum & Substance Quick Review" series by Thompson/West, keyed to major casebooks and totally worth the investment. Take it from someone who scored a variety of grades, including a "D-" in one class 1L Fall semester, and DRASTICALLY brought up all grades by the end of 1L Spring, that series works :-) ... I know what you mean with the way people dress - at my law school we actually had a dress code - "professional attire" and most people wore suits every day (Guess they were priming us for taking the VA Bar in a suit - one of the only 2 states that requires applicants to wear suits during the exam!). I didn't, and found that I excelled when I was most comfortable and so just tried to stay within our code and my comfort zone. Good luck with the externship - that will definitely add brownie points to your LL.M. app, and could be the deciding factor in your admission! If you have any other law school questions, please feel free to ask - it's the least I can do for others going through such difficult years; I had such a rough experience at times in law school, that I really understand what you poor students are going through right now!

This may seem strange but I really am no good at math and would like to know how much math do i really need to know to do an LLM in tax law ? PLEASE TELL ME !

Most of those above did a solid job of answering your question so I will add whatever I can to backup what they are saying

When I did my phone interviews with Boston and Northwestern, they both asked me several questions on what I learned/liked about my previous Tax Classes so obviously to them it was important to see that I am taking classes in Tax. Boston especially loved how I had taken International Tax and done well in it (B+)

Is it mandatory? No

But you sound like me grade wise. I rarely if ever am tops in my classes but I work my ass off and get bye pretty well, imo.

I am Top 40% of my class but I have taken all the tax classes I can and have worked for 2 different tax firms AND the IRS now. I hope that though my tests score are low I can make up with them through work

Will it work? I doubt it but so far I have been accepted to Boston and waiting on Northwestern, UF, and GT. I would be happy with either of the later 3 accepting me.

I can tell you admissions people will in fact look at experience as my father works on Admissions for a law school that is 2nd tier

Hey TaxLLM2011, I really appreciate your information and sharing. It's really encouraging. Well since you're like the only person I know who is in GULC Tax, I want to ask you just a little more about your school such as how challenging the courses are, whether you have any life at all besides doing the school work, what the job prospect looks like, and what kind of job you want to get.

And also, I want to know how you landed a position at IRS. How competitive was it? Do I have to move to DC (I'm from the West coast)? If you had a choice between an internship position at a private tax firm and IRS, which would you go for? For my second year summer, I would need another tax law experience.

Thanks, and I wish your success.

Hey LinkedS,

Thanks for your information. I really wish you will hear from the other three schools. Let me know how the admissions process is going because I am really interested to know as well not to mention that you gotta share the joy. :)

Getting an internship at IRS would be pretty sweet. This summer, I'm doing an externship at a state tax court but after my 2L, I would like to get an internship in tax law. How do I get a position at IRS? How competitive is it? Do I have to move to DC (I'm from the West coast)? If you had a choice between an internship position at a private tax firm and IRS, which would you recommend? Sorry for the list of questions.

PJP, it was quite simple to be honest

I simply sent my resume to their Chief Counsel Head explaining I wanted to work at the IRS and was told they were looking for someone.

So, I took it and that was that.

The experience is beyond helpful....I am actually learning the every day life as a Tax lawyer

LinkedS,

Wow that does sound pretty simple. So are you currently in law school and this is your part-time job or internship? And here goes a real dumb question: IRS is only in Washington DC, correct?

The IRS has branches across the country. Use this web-site to see if your city has one - http://www.irs.gov/localcontacts/index.html

I am a 3L in New Orleans currently. I worked for two tax firms previously in the past 2 years and wanted to get on the "other side" of the fence so to speak.

Oh, that's great! I will seriously look into that option. Thanks.

TaxLLM2011,

I asked you this question earlier but you probably have missed it since there were many posts afterwards. I just want to know generally about your current Tax LLM program at Georgetown. I want to how challenging the courses are, whether you have any life at all besides doing the school work, what the job prospect looks like, and what kind of job you plan to get after finishing. I would appreciate your reply once again.

Hi PJP! Sorry it has taken me so long to respond, but I've been unable to get into the message board - it's been down or something, for days, and I just got in tonight.

...in response to your earlier questions, there were so many posts that I figured it would be less chaotic to send you a message - I think I sent it around the end of February - did you get it? I think I can resend if not. In answer to your questions directly above, I can't really answer most of them because I haven't started yet. I will begin classes this coming September '08. I will say this - regarding what kind of job I'm looking to get - the sky's the limit - I'm looking at possibly staying in Government when I'm done with my LL.M., and maybe bouncing around to the Hill or over to Treasury, but then again it's also likely I might go to a big tax firm ... I basically have plans to do a little bit of everything in my lifetime :-) Ambitious, I know. Well, hope the law school life is treating you well...I'm guessing it's probably about Spring break time ... so enjoy ... you poor students certainly deserve it! (I would know!)

Hey TaxLLM2011,
I just sent you a message. I think it's a better idea too. hehe One more week until the spring break! I bet your spring break is going to be so sweet as a 3L! :) Thanks for the reply!