Stanford vs. Columbia for Corporate and a job in the US?


lkraemerr

Hi guys (especially alumni from Stanford),

I was admitted to CLS a while ago already and was sure that I would enroll, but have now received an offer from Stanford for the Corporate Governance & Practice program.

My goal is to find a job in the US (most likely New York?) and then go back to Europe. Is it much more difficult to find one when you are at Stanford?

Many thanks in advance for your replies.

Hi guys (especially alumni from Stanford),

I was admitted to CLS a while ago already and was sure that I would enroll, but have now received an offer from Stanford for the Corporate Governance & Practice program.

My goal is to find a job in the US (most likely New York?) and then go back to Europe. Is it much more difficult to find one when you are at Stanford?

Many thanks in advance for your replies.
quote
tsis

you got to chose between a porshe (Columbia) and a Ferrari (Stanford)..whats ur choice??

you got to chose between a porshe (Columbia) and a Ferrari (Stanford)..whats ur choice??
quote
Tristan

you got to chose between a porshe (Columbia) and a Ferrari (Stanford)..whats ur choice??


I think Columbia is just as good as Stanford, whereas a Porsche, unless you are talking about a car like the 918 Spyder Hybrid, is nowhere near a Ferrari. In other words, not a good analogy =). In terms of academic reputation, both law schools are pretty equal, you cannot get better than Columbia and Stanford. They are on par with Harvard, NYU, etc. That being said, for corporate, I think that Columbia has a slight edge because of its location. NYC is the home of Wall Street and has an abundance of law firms specializing in corporate law, M&A, etc. I would say that Stanford would be better if you wanted to do IP/Patent law, just because it is in Silicon Valley. I am not sure about finding a full-time job as an international student, given that the job market is still meehhh, but given the abundance of law firms in NYC specializing in corporate law, finding an internship should not be difficult.

<blockquote>you got to chose between a porshe (Columbia) and a Ferrari (Stanford)..whats ur choice?? </blockquote>

I think Columbia is just as good as Stanford, whereas a Porsche, unless you are talking about a car like the 918 Spyder Hybrid, is nowhere near a Ferrari. In other words, not a good analogy =). In terms of academic reputation, both law schools are pretty equal, you cannot get better than Columbia and Stanford. They are on par with Harvard, NYU, etc. That being said, for corporate, I think that Columbia has a slight edge because of its location. NYC is the home of Wall Street and has an abundance of law firms specializing in corporate law, M&A, etc. I would say that Stanford would be better if you wanted to do IP/Patent law, just because it is in Silicon Valley. I am not sure about finding a full-time job as an international student, given that the job market is still meehhh, but given the abundance of law firms in NYC specializing in corporate law, finding an internship should not be difficult.
quote
tsis

I totally agree on what you said and I rephrase it to Lamborghini vs Ferrari. Now, taking into account the Columbia issue talking from personal experience with people I know that studied there, just the university didnt offer them something except for interviews etc.It is really hard for LLM s to find a permanent job in the US.and just a Columbia degree is not enough. According to me, it cannot even be compared to Harvard, Yale Stanford. this is my humble opinion. On the other hand, everyone I know that studied at Stanford not only did they find high paying jobs but at the same time they could choose where to work between US and other international locations. Silicon Valey is indeed the paradise for IP etc focus but as per corporate governance many start up tech companies do need of individuals that are specialized in this area.
So, in other words, personally If I had to choose between those 2 I d definitely go for Stanford. Reputation, academic excellence, professors, location, and of course the brand name Stanford (no matter the area of studies) is something that Columbia does not have, at least as far as I know for Europe.
Best of luck deciding mate.!Go for the Ferarri. All time classic car, few have it, powerful red color and its after sale value does not drop. cheers

I totally agree on what you said and I rephrase it to Lamborghini vs Ferrari. Now, taking into account the Columbia issue talking from personal experience with people I know that studied there, just the university didnt offer them something except for interviews etc.It is really hard for LLM s to find a permanent job in the US.and just a Columbia degree is not enough. According to me, it cannot even be compared to Harvard, Yale Stanford. this is my humble opinion. On the other hand, everyone I know that studied at Stanford not only did they find high paying jobs but at the same time they could choose where to work between US and other international locations. Silicon Valey is indeed the paradise for IP etc focus but as per corporate governance many start up tech companies do need of individuals that are specialized in this area.
So, in other words, personally If I had to choose between those 2 I d definitely go for Stanford. Reputation, academic excellence, professors, location, and of course the brand name Stanford (no matter the area of studies) is something that Columbia does not have, at least as far as I know for Europe.
Best of luck deciding mate.!Go for the Ferarri. All time classic car, few have it, powerful red color and its after sale value does not drop. cheers
quote
Tristan

I will agree with you that, in general, it is very difficult for international students pursuing an LL.M. to find work in the US with big firms. JDs from top law schools are given preference.That being said, I personally know four LL.M.s who graduated from Columbia law that landed jobs with big firms in NY and then transferred to their Parisian and Brussels offices. I also know graduates from American University, Georgetown, George Washington, UC Berkeley, and NYU that were able to do the same. I do not know any LL.M. graduates from Stanford but I do know an American who got his JD from Stanford who is stuck doing temporary/contract work because he is unable to find permanent employment. I also disagree with you regarding Columbia's reputation abroad. I am from Europe originally and, at least, all the practitioners I know personally know of, and think highly of, Columbia. When I think of elite American universities, Columbia is up there with Princeton, Yale, Harvard, Upenn, Stanford, Dartmouth, etc.

As for your comment "the university didnt offer them something except for interviews ", I must disappoint all prospective LL.M. students who think that their school's career services will find them a job. That will NOT happen. All the career services do, including at schools like Stanford, Harvard, is provide a place for firms to hold interviews. They bring in firms, provide the firms with students' resumes and it is up to the firms to choose whom they want to interview, based on grades, work experience, etc. Usually only the top 1/3 of students get interviews, and of those only a very small percentage get job offers. For LL.M. students, the prospects are even more slim. They, generally, take a back seat to the JD students. The LL.M. students I know that got offers are all perfectly multilingual (most are near fluent in English, French, and have near fluency in at least one other major European language (i.e. German, Italian, Russian) have top grades both in their bachelor and LL.M. studies, have some really good internships (UN, World Bank, IMF, WIPO) and or work experience, and in the case of three of my friends, who practice patent law, they have advanced degrees (Ph.D.s)in engineering and chemistry.

I will agree with you that, in general, it is very difficult for international students pursuing an LL.M. to find work in the US with big firms. JDs from top law schools are given preference.That being said, I personally know four LL.M.s who graduated from Columbia law that landed jobs with big firms in NY and then transferred to their Parisian and Brussels offices. I also know graduates from American University, Georgetown, George Washington, UC Berkeley, and NYU that were able to do the same. I do not know any LL.M. graduates from Stanford but I do know an American who got his JD from Stanford who is stuck doing temporary/contract work because he is unable to find permanent employment. I also disagree with you regarding Columbia's reputation abroad. I am from Europe originally and, at least, all the practitioners I know personally know of, and think highly of, Columbia. When I think of elite American universities, Columbia is up there with Princeton, Yale, Harvard, Upenn, Stanford, Dartmouth, etc.

As for your comment "the university didnt offer them something except for interviews ", I must disappoint all prospective LL.M. students who think that their school's career services will find them a job. That will NOT happen. All the career services do, including at schools like Stanford, Harvard, is provide a place for firms to hold interviews. They bring in firms, provide the firms with students' resumes and it is up to the firms to choose whom they want to interview, based on grades, work experience, etc. Usually only the top 1/3 of students get interviews, and of those only a very small percentage get job offers. For LL.M. students, the prospects are even more slim. They, generally, take a back seat to the JD students. The LL.M. students I know that got offers are all perfectly multilingual (most are near fluent in English, French, and have near fluency in at least one other major European language (i.e. German, Italian, Russian) have top grades both in their bachelor and LL.M. studies, have some really good internships (UN, World Bank, IMF, WIPO) and or work experience, and in the case of three of my friends, who practice patent law, they have advanced degrees (Ph.D.s)in engineering and chemistry.
quote
tsis

everything depends on each individuals character, personal strenght and uniqueness. So yes, those graduating from like the top 30 US law schools not only focusing on law but in general they r havin a slight advantage over others for sure.
Columbia is great. But I declined the offer for example due to the general LLM as well as the cost studyin there and livin in NY. If it was Stanford then I d move the earth n heaven to go there.
Both are great. lets hope our friend decides the best for him!
I trully enjoyed the chat here. Kind Regards, til another interesting issue comes up! ;)

everything depends on each individuals character, personal strenght and uniqueness. So yes, those graduating from like the top 30 US law schools not only focusing on law but in general they r havin a slight advantage over others for sure.
Columbia is great. But I declined the offer for example due to the general LLM as well as the cost studyin there and livin in NY. If it was Stanford then I d move the earth n heaven to go there.
Both are great. lets hope our friend decides the best for him!
I trully enjoyed the chat here. Kind Regards, til another interesting issue comes up! ;)
quote
Tristan

everything depends on each individuals character, personal strenght and uniqueness. So yes, those graduating from like the top 30 US law schools not only focusing on law but in general they r havin a slight advantage over others for sure.
Columbia is great. But I declined the offer for example due to the general LLM as well as the cost studyin there and livin in NY. If it was Stanford then I d move the earth n heaven to go there.
Both are great. lets hope our friend decides the best for him!
I trully enjoyed the chat here. Kind Regards, til another interesting issue comes up! ;)


Tuition wise, they are actually about the same (Colubia is $53,000 while Stanford is $51,000). You will pay more for living expenses attending Columbia but that is because you would be living in one of the most vibrant and exciting cities in the world. New York is New York, there really is no other place like it. While Palo Alto is very very nice, it pales in comparison to NYC in terms of things to do, the energy, the restaurants, the music scene, the arts, etc.

<blockquote>everything depends on each individuals character, personal strenght and uniqueness. So yes, those graduating from like the top 30 US law schools not only focusing on law but in general they r havin a slight advantage over others for sure.
Columbia is great. But I declined the offer for example due to the general LLM as well as the cost studyin there and livin in NY. If it was Stanford then I d move the earth n heaven to go there.
Both are great. lets hope our friend decides the best for him!
I trully enjoyed the chat here. Kind Regards, til another interesting issue comes up! ;)</blockquote>

Tuition wise, they are actually about the same (Colubia is $53,000 while Stanford is $51,000). You will pay more for living expenses attending Columbia but that is because you would be living in one of the most vibrant and exciting cities in the world. New York is New York, there really is no other place like it. While Palo Alto is very very nice, it pales in comparison to NYC in terms of things to do, the energy, the restaurants, the music scene, the arts, etc.
quote
tsis

That's true! But if one needs sunny warm weather and not a so busy kind of "distrubing" city then Palo Alto I believe is better! The cost of livin in NY too will make the studies cost much more expensive than one should spend for an LLM in total! Again it depends on each ones wishes!
Personally, being a Meditteranean "citizen", California feels like home t me!!

That's true! But if one needs sunny warm weather and not a so busy kind of "distrubing" city then Palo Alto I believe is better! The cost of livin in NY too will make the studies cost much more expensive than one should spend for an LLM in total! Again it depends on each ones wishes!
Personally, being a Meditteranean "citizen", California feels like home t me!!
quote

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