Stanford vs Columbia


Milum

Hi. I've been admitted to Standford (Corporate) and Columbia for the academic year 07/08. I am much in doubt on which to choose. Any views? My areas of interests are mainly M&A and corporate law.

Hi. I've been admitted to Standford (Corporate) and Columbia for the academic year 07/08. I am much in doubt on which to choose. Any views? My areas of interests are mainly M&A and corporate law.
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fg

I think Stanford is more highly ranked, albeit only slightly, but I would choose Columbia simply because of location. New York is a university in itself and after living here for almost three years I am in love with the place. There is so much going on all the time with speakers, concerts, not to mention museums, galleries, restaurants etc (in fact, I often get "city panic" trying to decide between all the activities!).
Columbia is very strong in corporate law (take any course with John Coffee). It has a bigger class than Stanford which could be good in that it means it is less competitive. There is also more diversity. On the other hand, a small class could be nice too.
Where do you want to work afterwards? If you want to work in NY then I would choose Columbia since living in the city will make it easy to get to job interviews etc.

I think Stanford is more highly ranked, albeit only slightly, but I would choose Columbia simply because of location. New York is a university in itself and after living here for almost three years I am in love with the place. There is so much going on all the time with speakers, concerts, not to mention museums, galleries, restaurants etc (in fact, I often get "city panic" trying to decide between all the activities!).
Columbia is very strong in corporate law (take any course with John Coffee). It has a bigger class than Stanford which could be good in that it means it is less competitive. There is also more diversity. On the other hand, a small class could be nice too.
Where do you want to work afterwards? If you want to work in NY then I would choose Columbia since living in the city will make it easy to get to job interviews etc.
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armand

Hi Milum,

Congrats to your admission to Stanford and Columbia!

Personally I would prefer Stanford over Columbia, but that is mostly because my main area of interest is Intellectual Property Law where Stanford is really strong. However, I have to second flygirl that I think there are many benefits in living in New York.

I have to ask you, when did you get accepted to Stanfords LL.M. program? Did you get the ac-ceptance through e-mail or was it by ordinary mail?

Ive applied to the IP LL.M. program at Stanford and Im anxiously waiting for results

Hi Milum,

Congrats to your admission to Stanford and Columbia!

Personally I would prefer Stanford over Columbia, but that is mostly because my main area of interest is Intellectual Property Law where Stanford is really strong. However, I have to second flygirl that I think there are many benefits in living in New York.

I have to ask you, when did you get accepted to Stanford’s LL.M. program? Did you get the ac-ceptance through e-mail or was it by ordinary mail?

I’ve applied to the IP LL.M. program at Stanford and I’m anxiously waiting for results…
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loggon

Hi. I've been admitted to Standford (Corporate) and Columbia for the academic year 07/08. I am much in doubt on which to choose. Any views? My areas of interests are mainly M&A and corporate law.


congrats M! Did you have an interview before you were admitted? Thanks.

<blockquote>Hi. I've been admitted to Standford (Corporate) and Columbia for the academic year 07/08. I am much in doubt on which to choose. Any views? My areas of interests are mainly M&A and corporate law.</blockquote>

congrats M! Did you have an interview before you were admitted? Thanks.
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Milum

Hi amand

Thanks for your reply (the same to flygirl). I was called up about two weeks ago for a phone interview and got the acceptance email today.

Just a bit of background if anyones interested: I'm a qualified Danish lawer and have been working with one of the biggest law firms in Copenhagen for 5 years. I plan on returning to "my" firm after the LL.M. I love NYC (been there twice) howver I've never been to California.

Hi amand

Thanks for your reply (the same to flygirl). I was called up about two weeks ago for a phone interview and got the acceptance email today.

Just a bit of background if anyones interested: I'm a qualified Danish lawer and have been working with one of the biggest law firms in Copenhagen for 5 years. I plan on returning to "my" firm after the LL.M. I love NYC (been there twice) howver I've never been to California.
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fg

If you are planning on returning to your firm then I would definitely take Columbia - when else are you going to get the chance to live in the greatest city in the world?

If you are planning on returning to your firm then I would definitely take Columbia - when else are you going to get the chance to live in the greatest city in the world?
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YLS

I would choose Columbia over Yale, Stanford and Harvard simply because of the location. But also because:

1) It is very uncommon for Yale, Stanford and Harvard graduates to work in New York.

2) New York McDonald's are the best in the US, "Sex and the City" was shot in New York, New York is the best place on earth to shop and running in Central Park is an amazing experience.

3) Wachtell, Skadden, Sullivan, Cravath, Cleary and Simpson Thacher dont interview Yale, Stanford and Harvard law students on-campus.

4) John C. Coffee Jr is the best law professor in the world.

5) Big classes are better than small (it is impossible to interact with law professors in small classes) and Yale, Stanford and Harvard are less selective and less prestigious than Columbia.

6) Yale and Stanford have a very stressful and competitive environment (thats the reason why many courses at Yale and Stanford are graded on a Pass/Fail system).

7) There is nothing to do in Boston, in the Silicon Valley or in San Francisco.

8) Studying at Columbia is the only good reason to go to New York.

9) The Columbia LL.M. Class of 2007 has 217 students and Columbia need a lot of LLM students to fund the Universitys operating budget. So please accept Columbia's offer.

10) Tourism is the most important part of the LLM experience.

I would choose Columbia over Yale, Stanford and Harvard simply because of the location. But also because:

1) It is very uncommon for Yale, Stanford and Harvard graduates to work in New York.

2) New York McDonald's are the best in the US, "Sex and the City" was shot in New York, New York is the best place on earth to shop and running in Central Park is an amazing experience.

3) Wachtell, Skadden, Sullivan, Cravath, Cleary and Simpson Thacher don’t interview Yale, Stanford and Harvard law students on-campus.

4) John C. Coffee Jr is the best law professor in the world.

5) Big classes are better than small (it is impossible to interact with law professors in small classes) and Yale, Stanford and Harvard are less selective and less prestigious than Columbia.

6) Yale and Stanford have a very stressful and competitive environment (that’s the reason why many courses at Yale and Stanford are graded on a Pass/Fail system).

7) There is nothing to do in Boston, in the Silicon Valley or in San Francisco.

8) Studying at Columbia is the only good reason to go to New York.

9) The Columbia LL.M. Class of 2007 has 217 students and Columbia need a lot of LLM students to fund the University’s operating budget. So please accept Columbia's offer.

10) Tourism is the most important part of the LLM experience.

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fg

I can't believe someone spent so much time writing such a sarcastic and unhelpful reply.

For what it is worth, I do think the city you live in makes huge difference to the graduate experience otherwise why are the majority of LLM graduate students heading to New York. I am not sure why Harvard and Yale are being dragged into this since the poster is deciding between Stanford and Columbia.

To be sure, I really don't have a strong opinion about what LL.M course people take but I do have a strong opinion about what a fantastic city New York is to live in. And if the poster is heading back to his home country afterwards it would be a good chance to live here.

I can't believe someone spent so much time writing such a sarcastic and unhelpful reply.

For what it is worth, I do think the city you live in makes huge difference to the graduate experience otherwise why are the majority of LLM graduate students heading to New York. I am not sure why Harvard and Yale are being dragged into this since the poster is deciding between Stanford and Columbia.

To be sure, I really don't have a strong opinion about what LL.M course people take but I do have a strong opinion about what a fantastic city New York is to live in. And if the poster is heading back to his home country afterwards it would be a good chance to live here.
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Chang

lol. Seems like "YLS-josepidal" totally lost it ;-) ;-) Like all of us!

lol. Seems like "YLS-josepidal" totally lost it ;-) ;-) Like all of us!
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black

Just to correct, people at Stanford do get jobs in NY (100% selected for job interviews in the top NY firms for the LLM Job Fair and almost 100% call-back interviews, to give an idea). Stanford is a bigger name than Columbia for sure, worldwide and outside the tiny lawyers' world (your clients will be businessmen, not lawyers).
It is a very exclusive program (class of less than 15 compared to 250 or so at Columbia). It means that we are fully integrated with JDs (I often seat the only advanced degree student in my courses).
Check the website for top scholars in corporate. Grundfest is amazing. Also, very importantly, you can take courses outside the law school, including at the business school.
The conditions are amazing. I was seating in my garden in the sun today! People walk bare foot in the library and the space per person is huge.
Downside: it is very intense/hard work and for sure, Palo Alto cannot compare to the NY nightlife.
Bottom line: It depends what you want to get out of your year. learn a lot and have the second biggest name you can get on your resume after Yale, or have a more balanced life btw partying and studying. Also whether you want to live once in your life in NY (which, I agree, is a wonder city)
Good luck choosing.

Just to correct, people at Stanford do get jobs in NY (100% selected for job interviews in the top NY firms for the LLM Job Fair and almost 100% call-back interviews, to give an idea). Stanford is a bigger name than Columbia for sure, worldwide and outside the tiny lawyers' world (your clients will be businessmen, not lawyers).
It is a very exclusive program (class of less than 15 compared to 250 or so at Columbia). It means that we are fully integrated with JDs (I often seat the only advanced degree student in my courses).
Check the website for top scholars in corporate. Grundfest is amazing. Also, very importantly, you can take courses outside the law school, including at the business school.
The conditions are amazing. I was seating in my garden in the sun today! People walk bare foot in the library and the space per person is huge.
Downside: it is very intense/hard work and for sure, Palo Alto cannot compare to the NY nightlife.
Bottom line: It depends what you want to get out of your year. learn a lot and have the second biggest name you can get on your resume after Yale, or have a more balanced life btw partying and studying. Also whether you want to live once in your life in NY (which, I agree, is a wonder city)
Good luck choosing.
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black

I must add that it is wrong that many courses are graded on a pass/fail basis at Stanford.
We are graded "on a curve" together with JDs. Which actually make tough to get good grades. The mean = the average grade in a class, is super high at Stanford because JDs are brilliant and there is no dilution effect by a lot of LLMs (as I was saying, I am often the only adv degree student in my courses. so you cannot count on your fellows to underperform).
Also, note that there is no extra time allowed. No separate curve.
LLM can opt to "3K" (pass or fail) 3 courses out of a total of about 10 classes. SPILS can "3K" only 1 class. Since it is not well seen by potential employers to avoid getting a grade, such option is not so much used.
The number of total credits required is also higher tho' I am not fully sure about that. To graduate at Stanford, you need between 26 and 32 credits if I recall well.
Hope this helps understanding the grading system at Stanford.

I must add that it is wrong that many courses are graded on a pass/fail basis at Stanford.
We are graded "on a curve" together with JDs. Which actually make tough to get good grades. The mean = the average grade in a class, is super high at Stanford because JDs are brilliant and there is no dilution effect by a lot of LLMs (as I was saying, I am often the only adv degree student in my courses. so you cannot count on your fellows to underperform).
Also, note that there is no extra time allowed. No separate curve.
LLM can opt to "3K" (pass or fail) 3 courses out of a total of about 10 classes. SPILS can "3K" only 1 class. Since it is not well seen by potential employers to avoid getting a grade, such option is not so much used.
The number of total credits required is also higher tho' I am not fully sure about that. To graduate at Stanford, you need between 26 and 32 credits if I recall well.
Hope this helps understanding the grading system at Stanford.
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fg

I agree with Black's posting about Stanford and the various merits of each place. It is a tough choice although I don't know Stanford as well as Columbia and my knowledge is based entirely on what my friend who goes there tells me.

I guess I should have been clearer with regards to job opportunities. I have no doubt that it is easy for people from Stanford to get a job in New York at a large firm. But if you think you might struggle to get a job at one of them (for example, if you are only interested in litigation which is a hard area for a foreigner to get a job in) you may be shooting for places that don't interview at the job fair. This means that you will have to fly into New York (potentially on your own dime) which can be expensive and time-consuming.

I found Columbia really relaxed in terms of academic competition since most people there just wanted to get a job and weren't too stressed about grades whereas I heard that the small classes at Stanford can create quite a lot of competition amongst LLMs. If you can distant yourself then I would opt for the smaller class size personally.

When I had to make my own decision I chose Columbia based on the faculty in my area and largely, I confess, to live in New York. If New York doesn't appeal then I would most definitely have gone with a more highly ranked school. If deciding an LLM school based on the city is seen as silly and superficial then so be it. I had a blast!

I agree with Black's posting about Stanford and the various merits of each place. It is a tough choice although I don't know Stanford as well as Columbia and my knowledge is based entirely on what my friend who goes there tells me.

I guess I should have been clearer with regards to job opportunities. I have no doubt that it is easy for people from Stanford to get a job in New York at a large firm. But if you think you might struggle to get a job at one of them (for example, if you are only interested in litigation which is a hard area for a foreigner to get a job in) you may be shooting for places that don't interview at the job fair. This means that you will have to fly into New York (potentially on your own dime) which can be expensive and time-consuming.

I found Columbia really relaxed in terms of academic competition since most people there just wanted to get a job and weren't too stressed about grades whereas I heard that the small classes at Stanford can create quite a lot of competition amongst LLMs. If you can distant yourself then I would opt for the smaller class size personally.

When I had to make my own decision I chose Columbia based on the faculty in my area and largely, I confess, to live in New York. If New York doesn't appeal then I would most definitely have gone with a more highly ranked school. If deciding an LLM school based on the city is seen as silly and superficial then so be it. I had a blast!
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Aurelius

lol. Seems like "YLS-josepidal" totally lost it ;-) ;-) Like all of us!



Yes, but it's un-fucking-believable that some people just drop the most silly questions (like a 'ordinary' US university vs. cambridge? What would you prefer?): come fucking on!!

They have no fucking idea what they want in life, they just run like a bunch of cows to the first water well a farmer says they should go to, and only because the farmer says they should hop to that well.

<blockquote>lol. Seems like "YLS-josepidal" totally lost it ;-) ;-) Like all of us!
</blockquote>


Yes, but it's un-fucking-believable that some people just drop the most silly questions (like a 'ordinary' US university vs. cambridge? What would you prefer?): come fucking on!!

They have no fucking idea what they want in life, they just run like a bunch of cows to the first water well a farmer says they should go to, and only because the farmer says they should hop to that well.
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