NYU vs. CLS


ACW

Hi,

I intend to continue to JSD studies in corporate law or IP after my LLM. I just got accepted to CLS (woohoo !!!) and also applied to NYu (still waiting there....).
Does anyone have any thoughts on which is the better choice (assuming I get into NYU, otherwise the choice is easy since I only applied to these two) ?

Hi,

I intend to continue to JSD studies in corporate law or IP after my LLM. I just got accepted to CLS (woohoo !!!) and also applied to NYu (still waiting there....).
Does anyone have any thoughts on which is the better choice (assuming I get into NYU, otherwise the choice is easy since I only applied to these two) ?
quote
P.E.T.

I've heard that NYU has a very strong doctoral/JSD program, with a bi-weekly forum in which each student presents work with faculty commentators, a robust system of mentoring and supervision, and funding of living costs for 3 years post-LLM. No insights concerning Columbia unfortunately. If you're going for a JSD/SJD, it is probably a matter of finding a great supervisor more than anything else. Best of luck!

I've heard that NYU has a very strong doctoral/JSD program, with a bi-weekly forum in which each student presents work with faculty commentators, a robust system of mentoring and supervision, and funding of living costs for 3 years post-LLM. No insights concerning Columbia unfortunately. If you're going for a JSD/SJD, it is probably a matter of finding a great supervisor more than anything else. Best of luck!
quote
yasminm

CLS, without a doubt.

CLS, without a doubt.
quote
ACW

CLS, without a doubt.


Thanks for the reply yasminm, can you please explain a little more why CLS is preferable?

<blockquote>CLS, without a doubt.</blockquote>

Thanks for the reply yasminm, can you please explain a little more why CLS is preferable?
quote
yasminm

Sorry for not elaborating earlier. From my own knowledge of SJD candidates in CLS, they receive amazing supervision, though this of course depends in part on the Faculty you get, and are given numerous opportunities for intellectual nourishment both within the university and outside of it. Funding also hasn't been too much of a problem for many of them, though I would hesitate choosing a school by dint of its funding opportunities, given that your SJD probably determines in large part the success of your future career. The SJD program at CLS also demands exacting intellectual standards, and I know quite a few deserving candidates who had to seek SJD opportunities at other top-tier institutions because they didn't make the cut there (which, in turn, increases the prestige of being part of its SJD program).

Sorry for not elaborating earlier. From my own knowledge of SJD candidates in CLS, they receive amazing supervision, though this of course depends in part on the Faculty you get, and are given numerous opportunities for intellectual nourishment both within the university and outside of it. Funding also hasn't been too much of a problem for many of them, though I would hesitate choosing a school by dint of its funding opportunities, given that your SJD probably determines in large part the success of your future career. The SJD program at CLS also demands exacting intellectual standards, and I know quite a few deserving candidates who had to seek SJD opportunities at other top-tier institutions because they didn't make the cut there (which, in turn, increases the prestige of being part of its SJD program).
quote
ACW

Sorry for not elaborating earlier. From my own knowledge of SJD candidates in CLS, they receive amazing supervision, though this of course depends in part on the Faculty you get, and are given numerous opportunities for intellectual nourishment both within the university and outside of it. Funding also hasn't been too much of a problem for many of them, though I would hesitate choosing a school by dint of its funding opportunities, given that your SJD probably determines in large part the success of your future career. The SJD program at CLS also demands exacting intellectual standards, and I know quite a few deserving candidates who had to seek SJD opportunities at other top-tier institutions because they didn't make the cut there (which, in turn, increases the prestige of being part of its SJD program).

Thanks again.
In any case I will probably apply to both CLS and NYU for the JSD/SJD (I have to stay in NYC, so not many other options). Do you think there is a preference by these schools to accept their own LLMs for JSDs? More generally, should my desire to pursue he JSD in the future affect the choice of where I should study for the LLM?

<blockquote>Sorry for not elaborating earlier. From my own knowledge of SJD candidates in CLS, they receive amazing supervision, though this of course depends in part on the Faculty you get, and are given numerous opportunities for intellectual nourishment both within the university and outside of it. Funding also hasn't been too much of a problem for many of them, though I would hesitate choosing a school by dint of its funding opportunities, given that your SJD probably determines in large part the success of your future career. The SJD program at CLS also demands exacting intellectual standards, and I know quite a few deserving candidates who had to seek SJD opportunities at other top-tier institutions because they didn't make the cut there (which, in turn, increases the prestige of being part of its SJD program). </blockquote>
Thanks again.
In any case I will probably apply to both CLS and NYU for the JSD/SJD (I have to stay in NYC, so not many other options). Do you think there is a preference by these schools to accept their own LLMs for JSDs? More generally, should my desire to pursue he JSD in the future affect the choice of where I should study for the LLM?
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yasminm

Yes, traditionally the institutions use the LLM Program as an avenue to assess the student's writing abilities and level of intellectual understanding of a particular subject. It is not impossible to get an SJD from a school that you didn't do the LLM Program at, but it is a big hurdle nonetheless that you should try to avoid if at all possible. If you have to stay in NYC, then yes, apply for both - but might be good to spend applications to HLS, YLS, SLS as well, particularly YLS, if the aim is academia.

Yes, traditionally the institutions use the LLM Program as an avenue to assess the student's writing abilities and level of intellectual understanding of a particular subject. It is not impossible to get an SJD from a school that you didn't do the LLM Program at, but it is a big hurdle nonetheless that you should try to avoid if at all possible. If you have to stay in NYC, then yes, apply for both - but might be good to spend applications to HLS, YLS, SLS as well, particularly YLS, if the aim is academia.
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Meme

One further question on SJD - I have heard that Yale allows students to do their SJDs on distance in effect no matter where in the world you are - do you know if that is true for NYU or CLS?
Also, which one is easier to get accepted into after LLM completion?
Thanks.

One further question on SJD - I have heard that Yale allows students to do their SJDs on distance in effect no matter where in the world you are - do you know if that is true for NYU or CLS?
Also, which one is easier to get accepted into after LLM completion?
Thanks.
quote
yasminm

Most schools do (allow for SJDs to do it long distance) after a certain residency requirement is fulfilled. As for which is easier, I don't think either is particularly easy; much depends on how much your selected area of study resonates with the faculty advisor and the SJD admissions committee (whomever they might be). All else being equal, I'd say I prefer CLS, but that said, like I mentioned earlier, would be quite silly to look at it purely at an institutional level and not give some thought to the individual faculty member in either CLS or NYU that you'd want to work with.

Most schools do (allow for SJDs to do it long distance) after a certain residency requirement is fulfilled. As for which is easier, I don't think either is particularly easy; much depends on how much your selected area of study resonates with the faculty advisor and the SJD admissions committee (whomever they might be). All else being equal, I'd say I prefer CLS, but that said, like I mentioned earlier, would be quite silly to look at it purely at an institutional level and not give some thought to the individual faculty member in either CLS or NYU that you'd want to work with.
quote
mybigboss

Hi guys,

I now have an offer from NYU for LL.M. in International Legal Studies, as well as an offer from Columbia. Investing a year for an LL.M. degree is a very important decision, financially and academically.

Due to my limited experience, I believe, I am having a very hard time deciding between the LL.M. offers from such two prestigious programs. As I plan to focus my studies in international law (I plan to pursue a career in international arbitration and an international dispute resolution, both in the realm of public and private international law) I have no doubt but full respects for both institutions, and the costs are relatively close, it would be truly helpful if you would kindly guide me on some important points which will help me decide between the two programs.

As the Columbia and NYU tuition deposits deadline are very close, your kind guidance would be most appreciated.

Best regards
MBB

Hi guys,

I now have an offer from NYU for LL.M. in International Legal Studies, as well as an offer from Columbia. Investing a year for an LL.M. degree is a very important decision, financially and academically.

Due to my limited experience, I believe, I am having a very hard time deciding between the LL.M. offers from such two prestigious programs. As I plan to focus my studies in international law (I plan to pursue a career in international arbitration and an international dispute resolution, both in the realm of public and private international law) I have no doubt but full respects for both institutions, and the costs are relatively close, it would be truly helpful if you would kindly guide me on some important points which will help me decide between the two programs.

As the Columbia and NYU tuition deposits deadline are very close, your kind guidance would be most appreciated.

Best regards
MBB
quote
koala

My understanding is that NYU is ranked as the best US program in international law and is located in the heart of NY but I would think that Columbia has a stronger 'brand' than NYU, especially abroad...difficult choice but you are lucky!

My understanding is that NYU is ranked as the best US program in international law and is located in the heart of NY but I would think that Columbia has a stronger 'brand' than NYU, especially abroad...difficult choice but you are lucky!
quote
yasminm

I agree with koala - NYU is seen quite favorably for international law, but, as far as an LLM is concerned, you will find that the CLS name tends, by far, to go a much longer way. This is particularly the case if you're looking at international private law, as opposed to international public law.

I agree with koala - NYU is seen quite favorably for international law, but, as far as an LLM is concerned, you will find that the CLS name tends, by far, to go a much longer way. This is particularly the case if you're looking at international private law, as opposed to international public law.
quote

If you are interested in international law, go for NYU.

NYU is by far the best law school in the world for international law and everyone knows that.

Don't trust people who say Columbia has a better 'brand.' That's nonsense. Everyone who works in law knows that NYU is the best for international law, legal theory, and taxation.

If you go to NYU, you will have the chance to work closely with the best international law professors in the world. This will do a lot more for your career than anything else since telling people that you worked closely with a top professor in the field is much more meaningful than anything else.

So my advice to you is pick NYU for international law. At Columbia, you won't have the chance to work with professors nearly as good as at NYU. And at the end of the day, isn't that what you are paying for (the one on one contact with the best international professors in the world)?

If you are interested in international law, go for NYU.

NYU is by far the best law school in the world for international law and everyone knows that.

Don't trust people who say Columbia has a better 'brand.' That's nonsense. Everyone who works in law knows that NYU is the best for international law, legal theory, and taxation.

If you go to NYU, you will have the chance to work closely with the best international law professors in the world. This will do a lot more for your career than anything else since telling people that you worked closely with a top professor in the field is much more meaningful than anything else.

So my advice to you is pick NYU for international law. At Columbia, you won't have the chance to work with professors nearly as good as at NYU. And at the end of the day, isn't that what you are paying for (the one on one contact with the best international professors in the world)?

quote
WG

I've been sitting by the sidelines but seeing the above post, I just felt that I had to post. You are undercutting your own argument by saying that "everyone works in law knows that NYU is the best for international law, legal theory, and taxation" and "the best international law professors in the world". Sure, they are good for many of these things but so are about 10 different universities in each of the categories you mentioned and to suggest that they are primus inter pares in all of them makes me believe that your advice is a little self-interested. Saying that everyone else's views to the contrary are "nonsense" as you put it does little to assist anyone on the Board. I agree with the earlier posts that CLS would probably be a better choice. I agree with lorington32 that if there is a particular professor in NYU you're looking to work under you should definitely choose that over CLS, but not otherwise.

I've been sitting by the sidelines but seeing the above post, I just felt that I had to post. You are undercutting your own argument by saying that "everyone works in law knows that NYU is the best for international law, legal theory, and taxation" and "the best international law professors in the world". Sure, they are good for many of these things but so are about 10 different universities in each of the categories you mentioned and to suggest that they are primus inter pares in all of them makes me believe that your advice is a little self-interested. Saying that everyone else's views to the contrary are "nonsense" as you put it does little to assist anyone on the Board. I agree with the earlier posts that CLS would probably be a better choice. I agree with lorington32 that if there is a particular professor in NYU you're looking to work under you should definitely choose that over CLS, but not otherwise.
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yasminm

Relax everyone :) Both of you have made more than valid points. Just looking through all the posts, it does seem that the general consensus (whichever side one falls on) is to know which professor you want to work under and to work from there :) I do think, as mentioned earlier, all else being equal, CLS is better than NYU but that's just a subjective viewpoint and I'm sure one can make a strong argument for the converse position as well.

Relax everyone :) Both of you have made more than valid points. Just looking through all the posts, it does seem that the general consensus (whichever side one falls on) is to know which professor you want to work under and to work from there :) I do think, as mentioned earlier, all else being equal, CLS is better than NYU but that's just a subjective viewpoint and I'm sure one can make a strong argument for the converse position as well.
quote

In my past eduction, I have chosen a better 'brand' school over a marginally less prestigious university but 1st rate department and really regretted my decision. Every day, I thought that the only reason I am here is because of the better 'brand' and was continually reminded of my poor decision since the professors were definitely a notch below the other university I could have attended.

Go for whatever school has the best professors in your area of interest, such as NYU for international law.

In my past eduction, I have chosen a better 'brand' school over a marginally less prestigious university but 1st rate department and really regretted my decision. Every day, I thought that the only reason I am here is because of the better 'brand' and was continually reminded of my poor decision since the professors were definitely a notch below the other university I could have attended.

Go for whatever school has the best professors in your area of interest, such as NYU for international law.
quote
mybigboss

Hi guys,

I've been in touch with some professors at NYU and CLS, and several of them admit that NYU is stronger on Public Int Law, whereas CLS may be better for Private Int. Law. I also believe it is important to share with you that Prof. Linda Silberman will be on sabbatical leave.

I also have a question which I think is important when deciding between NYU and CLS:

Who are the visiting professors?

Could you guys share any info on the prabable Global Faculty at NYU and visiting professors at CLS?

Thanks!!

Hi guys,

I've been in touch with some professors at NYU and CLS, and several of them admit that NYU is stronger on Public Int Law, whereas CLS may be better for Private Int. Law. I also believe it is important to share with you that Prof. Linda Silberman will be on sabbatical leave.

I also have a question which I think is important when deciding between NYU and CLS:

Who are the visiting professors?

Could you guys share any info on the prabable Global Faculty at NYU and visiting professors at CLS?

Thanks!!
quote
mybigboss

When you are looking for substantive factors, it may be important to "hunt" for information about faculty changes.

A big move in international law from CLS to NYU:

http://www.law.nyu.edu/news/ALVAREZ_FACULTY

I also understand that Professor Franco Ferrari who teaches international contracts and international commercial arbitration would be back at NYU (after a year at CLS) as well.

$500 is a big sum of money for several of us, let alone the full tuition, and it would be nice if the schools can give us some ideas about their faculty changes, offered courses and visiting professors during 2009-2010.

When you are looking for substantive factors, it may be important to "hunt" for information about faculty changes.

A big move in international law from CLS to NYU:

http://www.law.nyu.edu/news/ALVAREZ_FACULTY

I also understand that Professor Franco Ferrari who teaches international contracts and international commercial arbitration would be back at NYU (after a year at CLS) as well.

$500 is a big sum of money for several of us, let alone the full tuition, and it would be nice if the schools can give us some ideas about their faculty changes, offered courses and visiting professors during 2009-2010.
quote
mybigboss

Let's get objective here, a high level source tells me that another leading international law professor is joining NYU, announcement to be made soon: http://www.law.nyu.edu/index.htm

I cannot confirm this list and you may want to check this with CLS, however I understand that leading scholars are visiting Columbia as well.

John Armour (Oxford) fall
Unity Dow (Justice, High Court of Botswana) fall
Mel Eisenberg (Berkeley) fall
Klaus J. Hopt (Max Planck Institute for Comparative and International Private Law) spring
Michael Knoll (Penn) all year
Susan Marks (Kings College) fall
Thomas Miles (Chicago) fall
Anne Joseph OConnell (UC-Berkeley) fall
Deborah Rhode (Stanford), fall
Lifshitz Shafar (Bar-Ilan University) fall
Yuval Shany (Hebrew U) all year
Paul Stephan (Virginia) fall
Sudhir Venkatesh (CU Sociology) fall
Andreas Zimmerman (Christian-Albrechts U of Kiel) one semester

Let's get objective here, a high level source tells me that another leading international law professor is joining NYU, announcement to be made soon: http://www.law.nyu.edu/index.htm

I cannot confirm this list and you may want to check this with CLS, however I understand that leading scholars are visiting Columbia as well.

John Armour (Oxford) fall
Unity Dow (Justice, High Court of Botswana) fall
Mel Eisenberg (Berkeley) fall
Klaus J. Hopt (Max Planck Institute for Comparative and International Private Law) spring
Michael Knoll (Penn) all year
Susan Marks (Kings College) fall
Thomas Miles (Chicago) fall
Anne Joseph O’Connell (UC-Berkeley) fall
Deborah Rhode (Stanford), fall
Lifshitz Shafar (Bar-Ilan University) fall
Yuval Shany (Hebrew U) all year
Paul Stephan (Virginia) fall
Sudhir Venkatesh (CU Sociology) fall
Andreas Zimmerman (Christian-Albrechts U of Kiel) one semester
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mnementh

Let's get objective here, a high level source tells me that another leading international law professor is joining NYU, announcement to be made soon: http://www.law.nyu.edu/index.htm

Perhaps you mean Prof. Jose Alvarez. it's already on the site. cheers.

<blockquote>Let's get objective here, a high level source tells me that another leading international law professor is joining NYU, announcement to be made soon: http://www.law.nyu.edu/index.htm
</blockquote>
Perhaps you mean Prof. Jose Alvarez. it's already on the site. cheers.
quote

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