NYU versus Columbia


DMM
These are 2 amazing schools and I realize that I am very lucky to be in the position of having to choose between them. What I'm looking for is people who actually know if one has a better reputation than the other one, especially in terms of job prospects. Thanks!
These are 2 amazing schools and I realize that I am very lucky to be in the position of having to choose between them. What I'm looking for is people who actually know if one has a better reputation than the other one, especially in terms of job prospects. Thanks!
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loop_
Columbia is better, but mainly outside of the USA.

In the USA, when you consider that most of the law firms hire many grads from both Columbia and NYU, amongst other schools, being in a top 10 school probably just ticks a box, and they will look to your other credentials.
Columbia is better, but mainly outside of the USA.

In the USA, when you consider that most of the law firms hire many grads from both Columbia and NYU, amongst other schools, being in a top 10 school probably just ticks a box, and they will look to your other credentials.
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Columbia
Columbia
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CLS : more well known (at least internationally), smaller program (hence more selective).
I was in the same situation and I chose CLS over NYU.

Regarding the job prospects in the US, no matter which school you will eventually choose to attend, they look very very very limited.
CLS : more well known (at least internationally), smaller program (hence more selective).
I was in the same situation and I chose CLS over NYU.

Regarding the job prospects in the US, no matter which school you will eventually choose to attend, they look very very very limited.
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erich
flip a coin
flip a coin
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nicolas_a
depends on the area you wish to focus on
depends on the area you wish to focus on
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James79
I think both are very good schools, but Columbia is more traditional, and prestigious... I also think that the program is better, better professors... it was my first option actually...
I think both are very good schools, but Columbia is more traditional, and prestigious... I also think that the program is better, better professors... it was my first option actually...
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loop_
I think both are very good schools, but Columbia is more traditional, and prestigious... I also think that the program is better, better professors... it was my first option actually...


NYU has been trying very hard to place itself on a level footing with those on the top, and I think largely it has been very successful (that's why I'm going there!).

That said your impression and the impression of many I have spoken to proves that nothing beats having a rich history. I think NYU also suffers because the graduate law school is its jewel in what is an otherwise less impressive institution, whereas Columbia, for example, has an excellent all-round reputation.
<blockquote>I think both are very good schools, but Columbia is more traditional, and prestigious... I also think that the program is better, better professors... it was my first option actually...</blockquote>

NYU has been trying very hard to place itself on a level footing with those on the top, and I think largely it has been very successful (that's why I'm going there!).

That said your impression and the impression of many I have spoken to proves that nothing beats having a rich history. I think NYU also suffers because the graduate law school is its jewel in what is an otherwise less impressive institution, whereas Columbia, for example, has an excellent all-round reputation.
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MAP2009
Columbia
Columbia
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yasminm
I would say CLS as well, though, loop, I have to say that I am very impressed that you are able to state things so objectively despite enrolling as a student at NYU. Many of us (and I'm not excusing myself from this phenomenon!) tend to view the institutions we enrol in with rose-tinted glasses and it is always refreshing to see someone divorce themselves from such spurious considerations and to be willing to adopt such an objective approach despite the obvious tensions. It augurs well for the future of NYU definitely!
I would say CLS as well, though, loop, I have to say that I am very impressed that you are able to state things so objectively despite enrolling as a student at NYU. Many of us (and I'm not excusing myself from this phenomenon!) tend to view the institutions we enrol in with rose-tinted glasses and it is always refreshing to see someone divorce themselves from such spurious considerations and to be willing to adopt such an objective approach despite the obvious tensions. It augurs well for the future of NYU definitely!
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koala
Hi, Columbia has an 'Ivy League' aura attached to it but overall both law schools have a great reputation in the US and abroad. They are also excellent for legal graduate studies. Base your choice on the subjects you would like to study and compare the Professors. I understand that NYU seems to have an edge in international law and in tax law while CLS is extremely strong in IP and in Corporate (for example).
Hi, Columbia has an 'Ivy League' aura attached to it but overall both law schools have a great reputation in the US and abroad. They are also excellent for legal graduate studies. Base your choice on the subjects you would like to study and compare the Professors. I understand that NYU seems to have an edge in international law and in tax law while CLS is extremely strong in IP and in Corporate (for example).
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Except for Tax and Public International Law, go to Columbia, no-brainer
Except for Tax and Public International Law, go to Columbia, no-brainer
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wolla
Except for Tax and Public International Law, go to Columbia, no-brainer


ditto!
<blockquote>Except for Tax and Public International Law, go to Columbia, no-brainer</blockquote>

ditto!
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koala
What is CLS's reputation for transactional law, international commercial contracts and international private law?
What is CLS's reputation for transactional law, international commercial contracts and international private law?
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loop_
just thought I'd also add that I attended the NYU online chat session for admitted students yesterday and they said that 10-20% of the 2008 NYU LLM graduates were hired for US jobs during the job fair, and that they expected it to be 10% for the coming year. They also reported a drop in the number of firms participating the job fair.

yasminm: no point pretending that your 3rd choice is your 1st. that said getting your 3rd choice still feels pretty good!
just thought I'd also add that I attended the NYU online chat session for admitted students yesterday and they said that 10-20% of the 2008 NYU LLM graduates were hired for US jobs during the job fair, and that they expected it to be 10% for the coming year. They also reported a drop in the number of firms participating the job fair.

yasminm: no point pretending that your 3rd choice is your 1st. that said getting your 3rd choice still feels pretty good!
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yasminm
I wonder whether they mean 10-20% of their ENTIRE LLM cohort, because that would comport more realistically with anecdotal evidence, since once a person takes into account their taxation LLM class, which is an extremely sought after qualification (and which includes many JDs) and which often leads to employment, it doesn't leave much left for the rest of the cohort. I am skeptical of the claim if the allusion is to the general LLM because at this juncture, there are seriously no jobs for LLMs in NY at the moment (save the taxation caveat mentioned above), not even for the most well-qualified. This is not a criticism of NYU but a comment on the US legal system as a whole - no LLM from a reputed institution, not HLS, SLS, YLS or CLS would render anyone immune from unemployment now.
I wonder whether they mean 10-20% of their ENTIRE LLM cohort, because that would comport more realistically with anecdotal evidence, since once a person takes into account their taxation LLM class, which is an extremely sought after qualification (and which includes many JDs) and which often leads to employment, it doesn't leave much left for the rest of the cohort. I am skeptical of the claim if the allusion is to the general LLM because at this juncture, there are seriously no jobs for LLMs in NY at the moment (save the taxation caveat mentioned above), not even for the most well-qualified. This is not a criticism of NYU but a comment on the US legal system as a whole - no LLM from a reputed institution, not HLS, SLS, YLS or CLS would render anyone immune from unemployment now.
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loop_
they were not clear on that (i should have asked), but they did say that they reported an 80% hire of 2008 tax llm graduates, so i'm guessing the 10-20% must be for LLM students minus the tax graduates, or else the figure would be closer to 30-40%?

that said, even 10% of about 200+ non-tax llm applicants makes 20, which is plausible as a figure, considering the number of firms out there. but it still means that it's highly unlikely you'll be successful.
they were not clear on that (i should have asked), but they did say that they reported an 80% hire of 2008 tax llm graduates, so i'm guessing the 10-20% must be for LLM students minus the tax graduates, or else the figure would be closer to 30-40%?

that said, even 10% of about 200+ non-tax llm applicants makes 20, which is plausible as a figure, considering the number of firms out there. but it still means that it's highly unlikely you'll be successful.
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Hedek
NYU online chat session for admitted students yesterday and they said that 10-20% of the 2008 NYU LLM graduates were hired for US jobs during the job fair


How many of those 10-20% also had JDs? Most domestic students enrolled in the NYU tax LLM have JDs. So figures provided by NYU must be interpreted cautiously. What are the actual figures for non JD holders, ie. international students?

I'm not worried for US JD holders who also have an LLM from a top 14 law school. Job prospects for them will be excellent once this stupid crisis is over.
As for international students, unless you're very lucky or in the top 1%, and even then...
<blockquote>NYU online chat session for admitted students yesterday and they said that 10-20% of the 2008 NYU LLM graduates were hired for US jobs during the job fair</blockquote>

How many of those 10-20% also had JDs? Most domestic students enrolled in the NYU tax LLM have JDs. So figures provided by NYU must be interpreted cautiously. What are the actual figures for non JD holders, ie. international students?

I'm not worried for US JD holders who also have an LLM from a top 14 law school. Job prospects for them will be excellent once this stupid crisis is over.
As for international students, unless you're very lucky or in the top 1%, and even then...
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yasminm
Hi loop, thanks for your insights, though I'd echo Hedek's sentiments. Not like 10-20% is a high figure to begin with but in this economy, but even 10-20% sounds a tad bit unrealistic if that figure excludes taxation LLMs (which, for some reason, appears relatively immune from market fluctuations and even then, my own understanding is 80% is considered low by taxation LLM standards - I've seen years where it was virtually every single applicant getting jobs in NY for taxation!). Anything above a single digit (and even then, a modestly low single digit), once one excludes the taxation LLM students, the data would appear to be completely inconsistent with anecdotal evidence on the ground. With that in mind, I tend to think that the data includes the taxation students, and because of that, is really not reflective of the sentiment on the ground.

I'm stressing this not because it is important to me either way but because I think it is important to highlight the following fact about the New York legal landscape: there are no jobs available. I stress this because I've seen far too many friends come here, go to amazingly wonderful schools, only to end up bitterly disappointed and wondering how to pay off the loans that they took on the assumption they could pay it back with a well-paying job in NY. Would hate for anyone from this Board to find themselves in that sort of quandry if it can at all be avoided.
Hi loop, thanks for your insights, though I'd echo Hedek's sentiments. Not like 10-20% is a high figure to begin with but in this economy, but even 10-20% sounds a tad bit unrealistic if that figure excludes taxation LLMs (which, for some reason, appears relatively immune from market fluctuations and even then, my own understanding is 80% is considered low by taxation LLM standards - I've seen years where it was virtually every single applicant getting jobs in NY for taxation!). Anything above a single digit (and even then, a modestly low single digit), once one excludes the taxation LLM students, the data would appear to be completely inconsistent with anecdotal evidence on the ground. With that in mind, I tend to think that the data includes the taxation students, and because of that, is really not reflective of the sentiment on the ground.

I'm stressing this not because it is important to me either way but because I think it is important to highlight the following fact about the New York legal landscape: there are no jobs available. I stress this because I've seen far too many friends come here, go to amazingly wonderful schools, only to end up bitterly disappointed and wondering how to pay off the loans that they took on the assumption they could pay it back with a well-paying job in NY. Would hate for anyone from this Board to find themselves in that sort of quandry if it can at all be avoided.
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loop_
that's fair enough. I think graduate admissions put the figure at 10% as an optimistic upper band.
that's fair enough. I think graduate admissions put the figure at 10% as an optimistic upper band.
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