NYU Tax LLM discussion


I suggest that any Fall 09 NYU Tax LLM admits use this thread to share any and all info that they have on this program. There seems to be little reliable and up-to-date info, and I would like to get some insight before the program starts. I will be trying to get in touch with alums/career office/fin aid office, etc., and will post any useful info I can find. Really interested in hearing about suggested specialization areas/classes/professors, housing options, and, most importantly, opinions about employment opportunities and job search strategies (if you're not already employed, of course). Hope this can become a useful resource and a place to meet future fellow classmates...post away!

I suggest that any Fall 09 NYU Tax LLM admits use this thread to share any and all info that they have on this program. There seems to be little reliable and up-to-date info, and I would like to get some insight before the program starts. I will be trying to get in touch with alums/career office/fin aid office, etc., and will post any useful info I can find. Really interested in hearing about suggested specialization areas/classes/professors, housing options, and, most importantly, opinions about employment opportunities and job search strategies (if you're not already employed, of course). Hope this can become a useful resource and a place to meet future fellow classmates...post away!
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Sdevante

Word on the streets straight from a current student.... live on campus b/c anything else is too expensive.

Word on the streets straight from a current student.... live on campus b/c anything else is too expensive.
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relduom

Sdevante have you decided to go to NYU in the end?

Sdevante have you decided to go to NYU in the end?
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Sdevante, thanks for the tip; that kind of surprises me, since
NY has seemingly been shedding employment lately - you'd think that there would be more housing options available. That said, living on campus is probably the most convenient thing - as long as it's affordable.

Sdevante, thanks for the tip; that kind of surprises me, since
NY has seemingly been shedding employment lately - you'd think that there would be more housing options available. That said, living on campus is probably the most convenient thing - as long as it's affordable.
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If you can find roommates it would be cheaper to live off campus. Just look at the prices for some of the on campus housing, kind of insane.

If you can find roommates it would be cheaper to live off campus. Just look at the prices for some of the on campus housing, kind of insane.

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Sdevante

Sdevante have you decided to go to NYU in the end?


No still pretty set on UF.... just emailed a current NYU student to ask some questions and I was just passing along what she said re: housing at NYU.

<blockquote>Sdevante have you decided to go to NYU in the end?</blockquote>

No still pretty set on UF.... just emailed a current NYU student to ask some questions and I was just passing along what she said re: housing at NYU.
quote


No still pretty set on UF.... just emailed a current NYU student to ask some questions and I was just passing along what she said re: housing at NYU.


I've been trying to get in touch with some current students or alumni last week, but the grad office was extremely unhelpful - was the NYU student someone you knew, or did you find them some other way?

<blockquote>
No still pretty set on UF.... just emailed a current NYU student to ask some questions and I was just passing along what she said re: housing at NYU. </blockquote>

I've been trying to get in touch with some current students or alumni last week, but the grad office was extremely unhelpful - was the NYU student someone you knew, or did you find them some other way?
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Sdevante

The NYU student was a lady who graduated from Vandy last year. My career services counselor at Vandy put me in touch with her. If I knew her I'd give you her contact info, but I don't really know her and my e-mail was out of the blue.

Other things she said was that the job market is killer unless people have been networking prior to/during LLM year. Which was kinda depressing, lol, but it is what it is.

Not very many southern firms interview at NYU; I think this was an obvious, but NYU focuses more on the Northeast and D.C.

And incidentally, networking is apparently a VERY good thing because this lady was fortunate enough to get a job BEFORE LLM grades came out. I am so envious! Lol.

The NYU student was a lady who graduated from Vandy last year. My career services counselor at Vandy put me in touch with her. If I knew her I'd give you her contact info, but I don't really know her and my e-mail was out of the blue.

Other things she said was that the job market is killer unless people have been networking prior to/during LLM year. Which was kinda depressing, lol, but it is what it is.

Not very many southern firms interview at NYU; I think this was an obvious, but NYU focuses more on the Northeast and D.C.

And incidentally, networking is apparently a VERY good thing because this lady was fortunate enough to get a job BEFORE LLM grades came out. I am so envious! Lol.
quote

The NYU student was a lady who graduated from Vandy last year. My career services counselor at Vandy put me in touch with her. If I knew her I'd give you her contact info, but I don't really know her and my e-mail was out of the blue.

Other things she said was that the job market is killer unless people have been networking prior to/during LLM year. Which was kinda depressing, lol, but it is what it is.

Not very many southern firms interview at NYU; I think this was an obvious, but NYU focuses more on the Northeast and D.C.

And incidentally, networking is apparently a VERY good thing because this lady was fortunate enough to get a job BEFORE LLM grades came out. I am so envious! Lol.


Yeah that's awesome for her. So the job prospects are bad even from the top programs? What a bummer. Are you in a job already, or are you hoping to land something with an LLM? I'm starting to send some feeler letters out, but I suppose "informational interviews" and lunches with partners is the more effective way to go, if more time-consuming.

<blockquote>The NYU student was a lady who graduated from Vandy last year. My career services counselor at Vandy put me in touch with her. If I knew her I'd give you her contact info, but I don't really know her and my e-mail was out of the blue.

Other things she said was that the job market is killer unless people have been networking prior to/during LLM year. Which was kinda depressing, lol, but it is what it is.

Not very many southern firms interview at NYU; I think this was an obvious, but NYU focuses more on the Northeast and D.C.

And incidentally, networking is apparently a VERY good thing because this lady was fortunate enough to get a job BEFORE LLM grades came out. I am so envious! Lol.
</blockquote>

Yeah that's awesome for her. So the job prospects are bad even from the top programs? What a bummer. Are you in a job already, or are you hoping to land something with an LLM? I'm starting to send some feeler letters out, but I suppose "informational interviews" and lunches with partners is the more effective way to go, if more time-consuming.
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Sdevante

I don't already have a job. I am sincerely hoping that taking the Florida bar, combined with going to UF and having extended family in Florida, prompts some FL firm to take pity on a poor soul and give me a job.

I don't already have a job. I am sincerely hoping that taking the Florida bar, combined with going to UF and having extended family in Florida, prompts some FL firm to take pity on a poor soul and give me a job.
quote

I don't already have a job. I am sincerely hoping that taking the Florida bar, combined with going to UF and having extended family in Florida, prompts some FL firm to take pity on a poor soul and give me a job.


Best of luck to you, man!

<blockquote>I don't already have a job. I am sincerely hoping that taking the Florida bar, combined with going to UF and having extended family in Florida, prompts some FL firm to take pity on a poor soul and give me a job. </blockquote>

Best of luck to you, man!
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andone

sdevente -

hmmm, this is a troubling post for me. would it be too much of a stretch to describe the tone of your alum's message as extremely pessimistic? im reading this as save your money and do not enter a tax program.

the job market is killer? networking is key? isnt this the same rhetoric we're hearing at the jd level. unfortunately, it doesnt sound like employers are bending over backward to hire tax llm grads from predominant programs.

as someone in a similar situation to you, im having serious concerns about my marketability after the tax llm.

sdevente -

hmmm, this is a troubling post for me. would it be too much of a stretch to describe the tone of your alum's message as extremely pessimistic? im reading this as save your money and do not enter a tax program.

the job market is killer? networking is key? isnt this the same rhetoric we're hearing at the jd level. unfortunately, it doesnt sound like employers are bending over backward to hire tax llm grads from predominant programs.

as someone in a similar situation to you, im having serious concerns about my marketability after the tax llm.
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Sdevante

First of all, I apologize that my presence has somewhat led this thread astray from specifically NYU discussion.

Having said that . . . Here's my take.

The market sucks right now. No way around it. Is getting a tax llm a golden ticket to a job? No. But neither was spending $150k to go to Vanderbilt, making Law Review, getting respectable grades, etc. etc. etc.

I am going to get a tax llm b/c I want to do tax, pure and simple, and I am hoping that it also allows me the opportunity to network and establish ties in Florida, which is where I want to be. Not to mention the cost difference is a compelling factor b/c I figure, if I owe $200k+ total already, another $10k isn't going to hurt too bad, plus it gives me another year and half for the economy to rebound.

If the situation was reversed and UF was the expensive school vis a vis NYU, or if I wanted to be in NYC rather than Florida, I'm not sure what I would do.

Having said all that, if you are a foreign student hoping to come here, get an LLM, and then stay here.... who knows? I know Christ-Choice got kinda upset with me in another thread b/c he claims that the market isn't as bad as people say, but I'm from the U.S., I went to a top school, I did all the right things, and guess what? No job. Same for a number of my classmates.

I think if you like/love tax, whether it is NYU, Florida, Georgetown, or whatever, you are bound to get a quality education. But I don't think it is going to be golden ticket, whether your JD is from Cooley or Harvard.

Another compelling factor for me (half-way said in jest): if I can't get a job and have to live on welfare, I'd rather be on welfare near the beach in FL than freezing in a tiny closet sized apt. in NYC. lol.

If you want more insight into the current climate re: tax employment, check out www.taxtalent.com. A few NYU students have been complaining about the lack of employers at TIP (interviews) and the general difficulty in getting a job currently.

Sorry to blab so much; I don't want to be pessimistic or be discouraging, but I don't want to see somebody spend a LOT of money on something thinking it's going to do things it might not do... if I had such sage advice three years ago, I may well have went to a different JD for free versus $150k now, lol.

Best of luck in your decisions!

First of all, I apologize that my presence has somewhat led this thread astray from specifically NYU discussion.

Having said that . . . Here's my take.

The market sucks right now. No way around it. Is getting a tax llm a golden ticket to a job? No. But neither was spending $150k to go to Vanderbilt, making Law Review, getting respectable grades, etc. etc. etc.

I am going to get a tax llm b/c I want to do tax, pure and simple, and I am hoping that it also allows me the opportunity to network and establish ties in Florida, which is where I want to be. Not to mention the cost difference is a compelling factor b/c I figure, if I owe $200k+ total already, another $10k isn't going to hurt too bad, plus it gives me another year and half for the economy to rebound.

If the situation was reversed and UF was the expensive school vis a vis NYU, or if I wanted to be in NYC rather than Florida, I'm not sure what I would do.

Having said all that, if you are a foreign student hoping to come here, get an LLM, and then stay here.... who knows? I know Christ-Choice got kinda upset with me in another thread b/c he claims that the market isn't as bad as people say, but I'm from the U.S., I went to a top school, I did all the right things, and guess what? No job. Same for a number of my classmates.

I think if you like/love tax, whether it is NYU, Florida, Georgetown, or whatever, you are bound to get a quality education. But I don't think it is going to be golden ticket, whether your JD is from Cooley or Harvard.

Another compelling factor for me (half-way said in jest): if I can't get a job and have to live on welfare, I'd rather be on welfare near the beach in FL than freezing in a tiny closet sized apt. in NYC. lol.

If you want more insight into the current climate re: tax employment, check out www.taxtalent.com. A few NYU students have been complaining about the lack of employers at TIP (interviews) and the general difficulty in getting a job currently.

Sorry to blab so much; I don't want to be pessimistic or be discouraging, but I don't want to see somebody spend a LOT of money on something thinking it's going to do things it might not do... if I had such sage advice three years ago, I may well have went to a different JD for free versus $150k now, lol.

Best of luck in your decisions!
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Sdevante,

Thanks for your advice - this is the most important topic, and, I'm sure, a worry for most applicants to LLM programs. In short, I feel the same way about my JD school, and about the prospect of spending more time and money on yet another degree. I see your point on the Florida thing - if and when the chips fall, it's certainly wise to be in a climate where you won't freeze to death if you can't pay the bills. Funny thing - people used to call me overly pessimistic, but even in my wildest ramblings I could not have predicted that the market would be -this- bad.

Anyway, your input is always welcome, and if you hear of any other info from your acquaintance, please feel free to post it here - I'll do likewise.

Sdevante,

Thanks for your advice - this is the most important topic, and, I'm sure, a worry for most applicants to LLM programs. In short, I feel the same way about my JD school, and about the prospect of spending more time and money on yet another degree. I see your point on the Florida thing - if and when the chips fall, it's certainly wise to be in a climate where you won't freeze to death if you can't pay the bills. Funny thing - people used to call me overly pessimistic, but even in my wildest ramblings I could not have predicted that the market would be -this- bad.

Anyway, your input is always welcome, and if you hear of any other info from your acquaintance, please feel free to post it here - I'll do likewise.
quote
Sdevante

No problem, if there is anything specific you'd like to know, let me know and I'll ask it of her.

BTW, where'd you go for JD, if I may inquire?

No problem, if there is anything specific you'd like to know, let me know and I'll ask it of her.

BTW, where'd you go for JD, if I may inquire?
quote

quote
Sdevante

Given that you went to a highly ranked JD, IMO, I am going to say if you like tax, go ahead and go to NYU or where ever on the assumption that the market will improve. Spending another year honing your legal skills has to be better than being unemployed when those student loans come due.

That taxtalent board is great; people don't respond as quickly on there as here (b/c they moderate every single post) but the people there are generally practicing tax lawyers and tax students and know what they are talking about.

Given that you went to a highly ranked JD, IMO, I am going to say if you like tax, go ahead and go to NYU or where ever on the assumption that the market will improve. Spending another year honing your legal skills has to be better than being unemployed when those student loans come due.

That taxtalent board is great; people don't respond as quickly on there as here (b/c they moderate every single post) but the people there are generally practicing tax lawyers and tax students and know what they are talking about.
quote

Thanks for the encouragement, Sdevante.

I actually found this little tidbit on the NYU website (scroll down to employment stats for 01-02):
http://www.law.nyu.edu/careerservices/llmstudents/faqsfortaxationcandidates/index.htm

The stats are way outdated, but if the prospects today are anything like back in 01-02 (and, I'm guessing, they are worse), then I really have to wonder if this degree is worth the time and money investment...any reactions?

Thanks for the encouragement, Sdevante.

I actually found this little tidbit on the NYU website (scroll down to employment stats for 01-02):
http://www.law.nyu.edu/careerservices/llmstudents/faqsfortaxationcandidates/index.htm

The stats are way outdated, but if the prospects today are anything like back in 01-02 (and, I'm guessing, they are worse), then I really have to wonder if this degree is worth the time and money investment...any reactions?
quote
Sdevante

Those numbers are surprising; in the first instance, that NYU even publishes them, lol.

70% of the class responded, and only 48% of those had jobs in August..... Not sure if NYU has the option of going 1 year and a summer like UF, but even assuming those kids went through the summer.... 52% of the respondents graduated without jobs. In a better market than currently exists.

I must admit that's not very encouraging.

I have an appointment (phone conference) with a NYU career counselor on Friday. I was going to ask them about their placement in the south... I'll have to see if I can find out more information about general placement last year or so.

Since it sounds like you are not entirely sure about the llm, are you currently mass mailing your resume all over the country in case you don't go on? If not, I think you should. Incidentally, a good site to use is Lawcrossing.com. It costs something like $30/month, but, you can sign up, upload your resume and a generic cover letter, then mass mail just about every single firm in any city of your choosing (big law and smaller firms). Then, at the end of the month, after you've sent out 5,000+ resumes.... cancel the subscription. It's a lot faster than trying to use NALP or whatever b/c they let you mail merge and just tag a bunch of firms at the click of a button.

Those numbers are surprising; in the first instance, that NYU even publishes them, lol.

70% of the class responded, and only 48% of those had jobs in August..... Not sure if NYU has the option of going 1 year and a summer like UF, but even assuming those kids went through the summer.... 52% of the respondents graduated without jobs. In a better market than currently exists.

I must admit that's not very encouraging.

I have an appointment (phone conference) with a NYU career counselor on Friday. I was going to ask them about their placement in the south... I'll have to see if I can find out more information about general placement last year or so.

Since it sounds like you are not entirely sure about the llm, are you currently mass mailing your resume all over the country in case you don't go on? If not, I think you should. Incidentally, a good site to use is Lawcrossing.com. It costs something like $30/month, but, you can sign up, upload your resume and a generic cover letter, then mass mail just about every single firm in any city of your choosing (big law and smaller firms). Then, at the end of the month, after you've sent out 5,000+ resumes.... cancel the subscription. It's a lot faster than trying to use NALP or whatever b/c they let you mail merge and just tag a bunch of firms at the click of a button.
quote

Great idea about the phone convo - I've been trying to get a hold of their CSO's email, myself, to get the employment stats - so would much appreciate if you posted your findings here.

As for non-LLM career search, I actually graduated in 07, and I did use Lawcrossing that year. I must've sent out 200-300 letters+resumes, and got no interviews. I wasn't top 20% in my school, of course, but I wasn't at the bottom, either - certainly, in the 90s and early this century this should've been enough to find something decent. I did get a couple of offers (one coming more than a year after graduation) - but they weren't in any area of law I wanted to get stuck in. I kind of saw the LLM as the last way to get into a decent area of the legal field, but all the recent info has been very discouraging. Sorry, I wish I had a more encouraging story, but we're living in bad times.

Anyhow, I would personally recommend that you devote more time to asking partners to lunch and having phone convos - I kept hearing from firms how they're simply flooded with resumes high-quality applicants (and that was back in 07-08), so I think you'd get more "bang for the buck" out of face-to-face time.

Hell, if nothing else works out, we could always gather up some bright unemployed minds and start a personal injury/bankruptcy firm - it's not pleasant work, but it pays well!

Great idea about the phone convo - I've been trying to get a hold of their CSO's email, myself, to get the employment stats - so would much appreciate if you posted your findings here.

As for non-LLM career search, I actually graduated in 07, and I did use Lawcrossing that year. I must've sent out 200-300 letters+resumes, and got no interviews. I wasn't top 20% in my school, of course, but I wasn't at the bottom, either - certainly, in the 90s and early this century this should've been enough to find something decent. I did get a couple of offers (one coming more than a year after graduation) - but they weren't in any area of law I wanted to get stuck in. I kind of saw the LLM as the last way to get into a decent area of the legal field, but all the recent info has been very discouraging. Sorry, I wish I had a more encouraging story, but we're living in bad times.

Anyhow, I would personally recommend that you devote more time to asking partners to lunch and having phone convos - I kept hearing from firms how they're simply flooded with resumes high-quality applicants (and that was back in 07-08), so I think you'd get more "bang for the buck" out of face-to-face time.

Hell, if nothing else works out, we could always gather up some bright unemployed minds and start a personal injury/bankruptcy firm - it's not pleasant work, but it pays well!
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