NYU Tax LL.M. 2009, taking Q's


Current full-time NYU tax LL.M., domestic

Current full-time NYU tax LL.M., domestic
quote

are the job opportunites getting any better? everything i've read is that it is really bad, even coming from nyu, but is that getting any better towards the end of the school year, or are there still alot of unemployed students in the llm program.

are the job opportunites getting any better? everything i've read is that it is really bad, even coming from nyu, but is that getting any better towards the end of the school year, or are there still alot of unemployed students in the llm program.
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ron1321

I will be attending a T2 law school in the fall. I'm interested in tax law and have heard great things about NYU's LLM program. What kind of class rank will I need to get into the program? Also, I'm a CPA, is the LLM really helpful or is it overkill? thanks!

I will be attending a T2 law school in the fall. I'm interested in tax law and have heard great things about NYU's LLM program. What kind of class rank will I need to get into the program? Also, I'm a CPA, is the LLM really helpful or is it overkill? thanks!
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I'll try to respond to both questions. First, placement in biglaw and B4 is bad this year. It seems like in a normal year about 60% of students are employed by graduation, but this year that figure might be more like 30%. Every year NYU tax places a small number of people, say 5-10, in tax court clerkships and 5-10 with the IRS OCC. This was unchanged this year and there might have even been a hiring uptick in government because a budget was passed. Biglaw and B4 are mostly laying people off, deferring incoming associates, and hiring sparingly. There are also a few people hired into academia every year, and this year is no exception. I hope things return to normal next year, but that would just be speculation. Smaller law firms might still be hiring, but that can vary greatly.

To the other poster, I don't have a CPA myself but it seems that a CPA and LL.M. teach different skills. The LL.M. certainly wouldn't hurt, but is probably not essential if you already have a CPA. I personally think the best route is to see if you can get a job and then pursue an LL.M. part time. As for NYU, the program is great and you will learn a lot. There is also an alumni network that is willing to help you out, especially in NYC. I am not sure if the education is any better than you would receive elsewhere, but the name recognition and the school's existing relationships with employers is valuable.

I'll try to respond to both questions. First, placement in biglaw and B4 is bad this year. It seems like in a normal year about 60% of students are employed by graduation, but this year that figure might be more like 30%. Every year NYU tax places a small number of people, say 5-10, in tax court clerkships and 5-10 with the IRS OCC. This was unchanged this year and there might have even been a hiring uptick in government because a budget was passed. Biglaw and B4 are mostly laying people off, deferring incoming associates, and hiring sparingly. There are also a few people hired into academia every year, and this year is no exception. I hope things return to normal next year, but that would just be speculation. Smaller law firms might still be hiring, but that can vary greatly.

To the other poster, I don't have a CPA myself but it seems that a CPA and LL.M. teach different skills. The LL.M. certainly wouldn't hurt, but is probably not essential if you already have a CPA. I personally think the best route is to see if you can get a job and then pursue an LL.M. part time. As for NYU, the program is great and you will learn a lot. There is also an alumni network that is willing to help you out, especially in NYC. I am not sure if the education is any better than you would receive elsewhere, but the name recognition and the school's existing relationships with employers is valuable.
quote

sorry, forgot to address admissions. In a normal year, top 25% from a T2 would be good enough. This year, I expect admissions to be more competitive because of all the laid-off and deferred associates. If you are in the top 25%, with good tax grades, a good personal statement, and some tax work experience, you should still have a good shot.

sorry, forgot to address admissions. In a normal year, top 25% from a T2 would be good enough. This year, I expect admissions to be more competitive because of all the laid-off and deferred associates. If you are in the top 25%, with good tax grades, a good personal statement, and some tax work experience, you should still have a good shot.
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AHG

How is hiring for Non-tax LL.M. students this year? Is anyone having any luck?

How is hiring for Non-tax LL.M. students this year? Is anyone having any luck?
quote
rbp

I'll try to respond to both questions. First, placement in biglaw and B4 is bad this year. It seems like in a normal year about 60% of students are employed by graduation, but this year that figure might be more like 30%. Every year NYU tax places a small number of people, say 5-10, in tax court clerkships and 5-10 with the IRS OCC. This was unchanged this year and there might have even been a hiring uptick in government because a budget was passed. Biglaw and B4 are mostly laying people off, deferring incoming associates, and hiring sparingly. There are also a few people hired into academia every year, and this year is no exception. I hope things return to normal next year, but that would just be speculation. Smaller law firms might still be hiring, but that can vary greatly.

To the other poster, I don't have a CPA myself but it seems that a CPA and LL.M. teach different skills. The LL.M. certainly wouldn't hurt, but is probably not essential if you already have a CPA. I personally think the best route is to see if you can get a job and then pursue an LL.M. part time. As for NYU, the program is great and you will learn a lot. There is also an alumni network that is willing to help you out, especially in NYC. I am not sure if the education is any better than you would receive elsewhere, but the name recognition and the school's existing relationships with employers is valuable.


I will be attending in the fall, and I have a few questions. First, I assume you to a corporate tax. Do you know which textbook they use? Second, do exams tend to be closed book or open book or restricted open book?

Any courses you would especially recommend or especially not recommend? The same question for professors.

Thanks,
rbp

<blockquote>I'll try to respond to both questions. First, placement in biglaw and B4 is bad this year. It seems like in a normal year about 60% of students are employed by graduation, but this year that figure might be more like 30%. Every year NYU tax places a small number of people, say 5-10, in tax court clerkships and 5-10 with the IRS OCC. This was unchanged this year and there might have even been a hiring uptick in government because a budget was passed. Biglaw and B4 are mostly laying people off, deferring incoming associates, and hiring sparingly. There are also a few people hired into academia every year, and this year is no exception. I hope things return to normal next year, but that would just be speculation. Smaller law firms might still be hiring, but that can vary greatly.

To the other poster, I don't have a CPA myself but it seems that a CPA and LL.M. teach different skills. The LL.M. certainly wouldn't hurt, but is probably not essential if you already have a CPA. I personally think the best route is to see if you can get a job and then pursue an LL.M. part time. As for NYU, the program is great and you will learn a lot. There is also an alumni network that is willing to help you out, especially in NYC. I am not sure if the education is any better than you would receive elsewhere, but the name recognition and the school's existing relationships with employers is valuable. </blockquote>

I will be attending in the fall, and I have a few questions. First, I assume you to a corporate tax. Do you know which textbook they use? Second, do exams tend to be closed book or open book or restricted open book?

Any courses you would especially recommend or especially not recommend? The same question for professors.

Thanks,
rbp
quote

We didn't use a corporate tax textbook, just printouts that were on the NYU course websites. If you have already taken corporate tax at the JD level, I'd think about choosing not to repeat the course and instead taking more advanced classes. I repeated and found that we did not learn much more than I had in my JD corp tax class. We did use Bittker & Eustice a bit and it was very helpful, as was examples and explanations. In fact, I think E&E was the assigned text for one of the other classes. Most tests are open book, open outline. There are a few that are restricted or closed book but I wouldn't let that dissuade you from taking those courses.

As for recommendations, I heard good things about Malman for corporate. I had Schmolka and found him personable, but confusing. Both of the Cunninghams (Husband and Wife) are great. Burch is a nice guy and doesn't hide the ball. Steines was confusing for partnership and i found his test very difficult, although some people loved him. I took taxation of property transactions and found that it repeated fed. income tax, but was still useful because the concepts were so foundational that it helped with other classes. Most people take the 1-credit procedure class in the fall. Can't give any more detailed advice than that because I don't know what you've already taken and what your goals are. If you've taken a lot of tax classes at the JD level, try to take advantage of the advanced and specialized courses that NYU offers.

We didn't use a corporate tax textbook, just printouts that were on the NYU course websites. If you have already taken corporate tax at the JD level, I'd think about choosing not to repeat the course and instead taking more advanced classes. I repeated and found that we did not learn much more than I had in my JD corp tax class. We did use Bittker & Eustice a bit and it was very helpful, as was examples and explanations. In fact, I think E&E was the assigned text for one of the other classes. Most tests are open book, open outline. There are a few that are restricted or closed book but I wouldn't let that dissuade you from taking those courses.

As for recommendations, I heard good things about Malman for corporate. I had Schmolka and found him personable, but confusing. Both of the Cunninghams (Husband and Wife) are great. Burch is a nice guy and doesn't hide the ball. Steines was confusing for partnership and i found his test very difficult, although some people loved him. I took taxation of property transactions and found that it repeated fed. income tax, but was still useful because the concepts were so foundational that it helped with other classes. Most people take the 1-credit procedure class in the fall. Can't give any more detailed advice than that because I don't know what you've already taken and what your goals are. If you've taken a lot of tax classes at the JD level, try to take advantage of the advanced and specialized courses that NYU offers.
quote

don't know anything about non-Tax LLMs. I've met a few but don't interact enough to know about their luck with the job search.

don't know anything about non-Tax LLMs. I've met a few but don't interact enough to know about their luck with the job search.
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