LSAC Score Conversion: 2.1. Honours = "Above Average"


laweful
I am planning to apply to LLM programs this year, had my transcripts sent to LSAC so they could produce their report, they stated that my 2.1 Honours degree (from UCL at the University of London) was "Above Average".

I want to know what you guys think about these "conversions"; is a 2.1 generally converted to a blanket "Above Average"? What is your particular experience with this? Do they take into account that getting a 2.1 from certain is more difficult in certain schools than others? etc. etc. What do you guys think about these academic "conversions"???
I am planning to apply to LLM programs this year, had my transcripts sent to LSAC so they could produce their report, they stated that my 2.1 Honours degree (from UCL at the University of London) was "Above Average".

I want to know what you guys think about these "conversions"; is a 2.1 generally converted to a blanket "Above Average"? What is your particular experience with this? Do they take into account that getting a 2.1 from certain is more difficult in certain schools than others? etc. etc. What do you guys think about these academic "conversions"???
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Hedek
UCL and the English educational system in general are well known by US law schools. They'll probably know exactly what your grades are worth and where you stand compared to other candidates, LSAC conversion or not.

You shouldn't worry too much about what LSAC has to say about it.

Of course for other countries and/or universities for which admission committees must rely on the LSAC conversion, the tendency of the latter to not properly take into account the fact foreign universities often have harsher curves than in the US can be truly problematic.
I mean B- can be an excellent GPA if that's what the first obtained out of 500 graduates that year.
UCL and the English educational system in general are well known by US law schools. They'll probably know exactly what your grades are worth and where you stand compared to other candidates, LSAC conversion or not.

You shouldn't worry too much about what LSAC has to say about it.

Of course for other countries and/or universities for which admission committees must rely on the LSAC conversion, the tendency of the latter to not properly take into account the fact foreign universities often have harsher curves than in the US can be truly problematic.
I mean B- can be an excellent GPA if that's what the first obtained out of 500 graduates that year.
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Personally, I can't recommend LSAC. The staff seemed to be extremely incompetent and they dont really know foreign education systems and grades. Generally, it is cheaper not to use LSAC. Finally, the whole LSAC process was very time consuming and it took them quite a while to handle my documents. I wouldnt waist my money once again for this "service".
Personally, I can't recommend LSAC. The staff seemed to be extremely incompetent and they don’t really know foreign education systems and grades. Generally, it is cheaper not to use LSAC. Finally, the whole LSAC process was very time consuming and it took them quite a while to handle my documents. I wouldn’t waist my money once again for this "service".
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laweful
Thanks Hedek and Hanna for your comments.

Hanna, the problem is that many LLM program require that you go through LSAC for the foreign creditials report. I personally find their conversion "scale" extremely simplistic; the grade conversion seems to be innacurate, there seems to be no scaling relating to quality of institution or or type of degree pursued (e.g. honours degree vs. non-honours degree).
Thanks Hedek and Hanna for your comments.

Hanna, the problem is that many LLM program require that you go through LSAC for the foreign creditials report. I personally find their conversion "scale" extremely simplistic; the grade conversion seems to be innacurate, there seems to be no scaling relating to quality of institution or or type of degree pursued (e.g. honours degree vs. non-honours degree).
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I know For instance, NYU requires LSAC which was the reason why I used this service. However, some of my friends successfully received an LSAC waiver from NYU or just applied without using LSAC.

As you said the scale is too standardized and does not reflect the national grading system mand their evaluation is a joke.
I know… For instance, NYU requires LSAC which was the reason why I used this service. However, some of my friends successfully received an LSAC waiver from NYU or just applied without using LSAC.

As you said the scale is too standardized and does not reflect the national grading system mand their evaluation is a joke.
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eli_maka
Hi, I just got my academic report from LSAC also and they rated my 2.1 as "above average" as well. They clearly make no distinction between a very low, high or in between 2.1 which seems a bit unfair. Although the report did include my average overall mark and the fact that a 2.1 for my course was between x and y which I guess is indicative.
Hi, I just got my academic report from LSAC also and they rated my 2.1 as "above average" as well. They clearly make no distinction between a very low, high or in between 2.1 which seems a bit unfair. Although the report did include my average overall mark and the fact that a 2.1 for my course was between x and y which I guess is indicative.
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snowball
Hi i also got my transcript authenticated from by lsac and got an 'above average' rating.However, I got a low 2:1 average which is rather annoying because my school (LSE) graded us based on the marks of the best 4 modules.Based on the results of 4 modules I actually have a high 2:1.Do you think its worth pointing that out somewhere in my applications>?

Thanks
Hi i also got my transcript authenticated from by lsac and got an 'above average' rating.However, I got a low 2:1 average which is rather annoying because my school (LSE) graded us based on the marks of the best 4 modules.Based on the results of 4 modules I actually have a high 2:1.Do you think its worth pointing that out somewhere in my applications>?

Thanks
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GlasgowLaw
Hey guys,

I also have a 2:1,and have submitted my transcripts to LSAC....still waiting for evaluation....it will probably be "above average" too....

Has anyone found this to be a problem..im applying to Columbia/NYU/Cornell...and wonder whether I should send original transcripts to the schools instead of using LSAC??
Hey guys,

I also have a 2:1,and have submitted my transcripts to LSAC....still waiting for evaluation....it will probably be "above average" too....

Has anyone found this to be a problem..im applying to Columbia/NYU/Cornell...and wonder whether I should send original transcripts to the schools instead of using LSAC??
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spikesf
NYU is the only university that requires LSAC for their application. I will do my best and try to apply without LSAC (as some of my friends also had some bad experience with LSAC).

Plus, it is cheaper...
NYU is the only university that requires LSAC for their application. I will do my best and try to apply without LSAC (as some of my friends also had some bad experience with LSAC).

Plus, it is cheaper...

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Just got my report back. I have a 70.5% second year average and a high 2:1 first year average which doesn't even count towards our degree classification. LSAC awarded me a nice 'above average' rating even though I am 4th in a class of 246. This is really disappointing and I feel like its a huge disadvantage. I wish I had just skipped the *one* university I applied to that required the service!

I am appealing this and hoping for a re-evaluation, it really isn't accurate for them to include first year grades from UK transcripts!
Just got my report back. I have a 70.5% second year average and a high 2:1 first year average which doesn't even count towards our degree classification. LSAC awarded me a nice 'above average' rating even though I am 4th in a class of 246. This is really disappointing and I feel like its a huge disadvantage. I wish I had just skipped the *one* university I applied to that required the service!

I am appealing this and hoping for a re-evaluation, it really isn't accurate for them to include first year grades from UK transcripts!
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mdm31
I attended a NYU's information session in Rio about 2 weeks ago and the Director of Graduate Admissions said they take a look at the transcripts and the grades (and not only at LSAC's report) and they have a very good idea of how the grading system works in each country (and also the difference between the main schools in each country). I wouldnt waste my time trying to appeal to LSAC -- everybody gets a disappointing evaluation, and the schools seem to know that.
I attended a NYU's information session in Rio about 2 weeks ago and the Director of Graduate Admissions said they take a look at the transcripts and the grades (and not only at LSAC's report) and they have a very good idea of how the grading system works in each country (and also the difference between the main schools in each country). I wouldnt waste my time trying to appeal to LSAC -- everybody gets a disappointing evaluation, and the schools seem to know that.
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That's nice to hear! Perhaps the world hasn't ended after all :P
That's nice to hear! Perhaps the world hasn't ended after all :P
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Hermione
Dear Guys

Another confusion because of LSAC system

I did send my application through LSAC, but did not request for an International Service Evaluation Form because the Uni that I apply for does not require it.

In my account, I found a file "POSTSECONDARY SUMMARY" and it mentioned:

1. First degree in law
2. Highest level of US postsecondary-equivalent work completed
3. Minimum degree requirement not met
4. Degree not completed

I have sent everything to LSAC as per requirement, but I do not understand what does it mean for no. 3 and 4?
I ensure that my academic & professional qualification could meet the requirement of the uni. Particularly for no. 4 Degree not completed??? I graduated 5 years ago and sent my LLB certificate to LSAC, so what`s the basis for LSAC to say that my Degree is not completed?

Im so worry now, any judgment from LSAC could misleading and bring a disadvantage to the applicant as this report has sent to the Uni.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? or could share the experience on the same issue?

really desperate now!
Dear Guys

Another confusion because of LSAC system

I did send my application through LSAC, but did not request for an International Service Evaluation Form because the Uni that I apply for does not require it.

In my account, I found a file "POSTSECONDARY SUMMARY" and it mentioned:

1. First degree in law
2. Highest level of US postsecondary-equivalent work completed
3. Minimum degree requirement not met
4. Degree not completed

I have sent everything to LSAC as per requirement, but I do not understand what does it mean for no. 3 and 4?
I ensure that my academic & professional qualification could meet the requirement of the uni. Particularly for no. 4 Degree not completed??? I graduated 5 years ago and sent my LLB certificate to LSAC, so what`s the basis for LSAC to say that my Degree is not completed?

Im so worry now, any judgment from LSAC could misleading and bring a disadvantage to the applicant as this report has sent to the Uni.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this? or could share the experience on the same issue?

really desperate now!

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Hermione
additional info to add:

My law school report that I mention before is the initial Law School Report, which has sent by LSAC to the uni. some parts also still bank.

US-comparable education completed at this institution:
Grade average at this institution:
*Quality of academic record for this institution:

I did send my online application yesterday. Im from a small country in Asia, is there any possibility that LSAC could not track the record/ has an access to my uni in my home country? that`s why these parts still blank.. or they still working on it and will update in the 2nd report?

I really need an advice...

crying in the corner now....
additional info to add:

My law school report that I mention before is the initial Law School Report, which has sent by LSAC to the uni. some parts also still bank.

US-comparable education completed at this institution:
Grade average at this institution:
*Quality of academic record for this institution:

I did send my online application yesterday. Im from a small country in Asia, is there any possibility that LSAC could not track the record/ has an access to my uni in my home country? that`s why these parts still blank.. or they still working on it and will update in the 2nd report?

I really need an advice...

crying in the corner now....


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mdm31
Any chance you are reading the caption for the signs that they put next to the school names? My report also has all that you mentioned, but next to the first school I attended is a sign (*) that stands for first degree in law, and next to another one is another sign (+) that stands for highest level completed. Read you report calmly...

As for the blank answers, why dont you call lsac? They replied all my emails and were also very helpful by phone.
Any chance you are reading the caption for the signs that they put next to the school names? My report also has all that you mentioned, but next to the first school I attended is a sign (*) that stands for first degree in law, and next to another one is another sign (+) that stands for highest level completed. Read you report calmly...

As for the blank answers, why dont you call lsac? They replied all my emails and were also very helpful by phone.

quote
Hermione
Dear mdm31

Yes you right, these signs are mentioned in my Law School Report, I did sent my queries to LSAC and hope they will respond it soon.

I assume that they probably still work on my report as "General Comments" is still blank too.

Has LSAC filled up the "General Comments" in your report? or you have the same situation as I am?

Thanks for sharing
Dear mdm31

Yes you right, these signs are mentioned in my Law School Report, I did sent my queries to LSAC and hope they will respond it soon.

I assume that they probably still work on my report as "General Comments" is still blank too.

Has LSAC filled up the "General Comments" in your report? or you have the same situation as I am?

Thanks for sharing


quote
mdm31
Dear mdm31

Yes you right, these signs are mentioned in my Law School Report, I did sent my queries to LSAC and hope they will respond it soon.

I assume that they probably still work on my report as "General Comments" is still blank too.

Has LSAC filled up the "General Comments" in your report? or you have the same situation as I am?

Thanks for sharing




Blank for General Comments as well (and for some other items as well).. but I dont think that this is a big deal.
<blockquote>Dear mdm31

Yes you right, these signs are mentioned in my Law School Report, I did sent my queries to LSAC and hope they will respond it soon.

I assume that they probably still work on my report as "General Comments" is still blank too.

Has LSAC filled up the "General Comments" in your report? or you have the same situation as I am?

Thanks for sharing


</blockquote>

Blank for General Comments as well (and for some other items as well).. but I dont think that this is a big deal.
quote
Sim_Tron
Read you report calmly...

As for the blank answers, why dont you call lsac? They replied all my emails and were also very helpful by phone.



Good advice! I have had nothing but a good experience with LSAC and they responded to an email I sent asking them to make a correction within 3 or 4 days.

I just want to add that the chatter stating "well my school ranks us this way" is frustratingly limited. Its irrelevant how YOUR university ranks YOU for honors (sic) status. What matters is how rigorous the university is and how this stacks up against others. I mean, come on - obtaining honours off 4 grades or only your final year is AMAZING, I wish Australian universities did that!

IMHO - the more relevant questions to be asking are:

- 1. How does your university assess you?

Is it 50:50 exam to paper ratio, or is it more like 70:30 (like my law school), or do you NOT sit exams? (law exams are hard; ours were open book which were killers because of what we were expected to know).

- 2. How does your university mark your assessments?

Is it via individual merit (the university I studied my BA at, and subsequently taught in do this) or is it still via Bell Curve? (Bell Curves are disadvantageous to a students overall GPA, unless you're gunning it)

- 3. What is your cumulative GPA?

Forget the label 'honors (sic)' for a moment and just look at it logically (don't kid yourself because the truth is inconvenient)

I might add that I got a Above Average for my LLB and a Superior for my BA (International Studies). I studied at an Australian university within the Top 8 (we call it the Group of 8). By my law school standards my LLB grades were OK but not amazing. My law school 70:30 or 60:40 examines (no take home exams) for the vast MAJORITY of assessments and we were Bell Curved. Basically, it was hard to do well.

Anyway - thats my logic but it could be very wrong :)

Good luck ppl!
<blockquote> Read you report calmly...

As for the blank answers, why dont you call lsac? They replied all my emails and were also very helpful by phone.

</blockquote>

Good advice! I have had nothing but a good experience with LSAC and they responded to an email I sent asking them to make a correction within 3 or 4 days.

I just want to add that the chatter stating "well my school ranks us this way" is frustratingly limited. Its irrelevant how YOUR university ranks YOU for honors (sic) status. What matters is how rigorous the university is and how this stacks up against others. I mean, come on - obtaining honours off 4 grades or only your final year is AMAZING, I wish Australian universities did that!

IMHO - the more relevant questions to be asking are:

- 1. How does your university assess you?

Is it 50:50 exam to paper ratio, or is it more like 70:30 (like my law school), or do you NOT sit exams? (law exams are hard; ours were open book which were killers because of what we were expected to know).

- 2. How does your university mark your assessments?

Is it via individual merit (the university I studied my BA at, and subsequently taught in do this) or is it still via Bell Curve? (Bell Curves are disadvantageous to a students overall GPA, unless you're gunning it)

- 3. What is your cumulative GPA?

Forget the label 'honors (sic)' for a moment and just look at it logically (don't kid yourself because the truth is inconvenient)

I might add that I got a Above Average for my LLB and a Superior for my BA (International Studies). I studied at an Australian university within the Top 8 (we call it the Group of 8). By my law school standards my LLB grades were OK but not amazing. My law school 70:30 or 60:40 examines (no take home exams) for the vast MAJORITY of assessments and we were Bell Curved. Basically, it was hard to do well.

Anyway - thats my logic but it could be very wrong :)

Good luck ppl!
quote
Hi all, I recently had my transcript evaluated, and initially they translated the grading procedure from the UK in US terms wrong, giving me an "above average" evaluation. I emailed them and asked for a re-evaluation, and had my University mail them an explanation of the grading system and my formal class rank. LSAC did the re-evaluation within about three weeks free of charge, updated my file for all law schools including my class ranking and new 'Superior' quality work which reflected my actual grades in an accurate manner.

In short, it is well worth disputing the evaluation if you feel it doesn't truly reflect your grades as long as you have some information you can send in to them. Good luck!
Hi all, I recently had my transcript evaluated, and initially they translated the grading procedure from the UK in US terms wrong, giving me an "above average" evaluation. I emailed them and asked for a re-evaluation, and had my University mail them an explanation of the grading system and my formal class rank. LSAC did the re-evaluation within about three weeks free of charge, updated my file for all law schools including my class ranking and new 'Superior' quality work which reflected my actual grades in an accurate manner.

In short, it is well worth disputing the evaluation if you feel it doesn't truly reflect your grades as long as you have some information you can send in to them. Good luck!
quote

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