Hello, everyone. I am an LLM at NYU (part time, graduate next May). I came across this site and thought I would post. I volunteered to help incoming LLMs at NYU in my program (trade regulation) and thought I would post here as well. As an LLM, an attorney (I am licensed and practiced law in California), an American, and someone who has lived in a few countries and traveled to over 20 countries, I will be happy to provide any information I can regarding LLM programs in the US -- free of charge. Of course, I do work, so it may take me awile to respond if I get a lot of questions, put will be happy to do so.

As most of you know, an LLM is REQUIRED by many states for foreigners to even sit for the bar examination. Please note also that several states, including New York, require a few basic US law classes, taken during or before your LLM.

Best wishes to all in getting into the LLM program of your choice!

Sam

Hello!!
Initially thank you for your help sam; you can be sure that it is much appreciated!!
First, do you know which universities transfer LLM s to J.D. s? I read it in a post that it is possible...
Second, I would very much appreciate it if you were to tell me about the job oppurtunities of foreign traigned lawyers in NY after their LLM. What would you advice a LLM to do while studying in order to increase chances.
Thank you again

Hi Sam! thanks very much for your help. I was wondering which are the courses you must take during the LLM in order to qualify for the NY bar exam. I´ve been in the http://www.nybarexam.org website but do not see this information. Many thanks!!!

You do not need to take specific courses to take the NY Bar if you are doing an LLM (24 credits). If you opt not to do an LLM, however, you will have to enroll in one of the law schools and take few courses they require.

I heard that you do not need an LL.M. to take the California Bar. But the passing rate is very low, especially for those who do not have a US LLM.

Also, CA and NY are not the only states that allow you to take their bar exams.
Massachusetts, Connecticut, Rhode Island, Arizona, and Tennessee are among the 10 states I remember allow LLMers take the exam.

As for the job opportunities in the US without a J.D., it is extremely hard to find one unless it is in a law firm that has an office in your country, in which case they may hire you as a trainee for one year, with a contract requiring that you return to their office in your country after the one year. Otherwise, it is really hard. If you plan on remaining in the US and practicing law here, I suggest you do a JD straight up.

To follow up on malayika's comments:

I am unaware of any ability to "transfer" LLMs to JD's. I would guess that if offered, it would be school specific, meaning that an individual school may allow it.

As for jobs, yes, it is VERY difficult to get jobs, but not impossible, especially if you have a certain skill which a firm wants. At NYU we have separate job fair in the Spring for foreign LLMs, and many LLMs get jobs there -BUT ALMOST ALL ARE BACK IN THEIR COUNTRIES. Yet, many are from US firms, so maybe after working in your home country for a few years for a US firm, you can transfer to a US office. This would be a firm specific policy.

Regarding the classes on US law to sit for the NY bar. One person commented that they could not find the info, and malayika stated that it is not necessary. This may be true. I honestly do not know. However, the Vice Dean at NYU sends out a package to all incoming LLMs with information. In this package was a letter which stated that 2 basic US law classes are required to sit for the US bar (e.g. torts, contracts, constitutional law). I will look into this, in case I misread it or misunderstood it.

Regarding malayika's comment on LLMs in different states. Keep in mind a degree in the US is only as good as the institution in which grants it. Many schools offer an LLM but whether it would be a benefit to get one from any but the top 20 schools is arguable. Sure, it may allow you to sit for the bar, but as getting a job in the US is hard -- even if you go to top schools like Columbia and NYU (i have several friends at Columbia, who say its the same over there for LLMs) -- not sure how wise it would be. Still, definatley consider all your options.

Hi?

What are the benefits of the NY bar if I`m a russian lawyer practicing law in Russia?

Hi Sam, thanx for volunteering to do a yeoman's job! anyone who has the answer is welcome to enlighten me. My question is: Is the fact that one holds an LLM from a US school a disqualification from admission into another school's LLM? If it's school-specific, do you know which schools have this policy or the conditions attached...? Thanx every1

Hi Sam! Thank you for your kindness and your imformation indeed!
I would like to try to answer the transfering thing(LLM-->JD)
As far as I know, many law schools in the US will allow some students to transfer from LLM to JD, but it is very very difficult! Depends on your scores, and your LSAT
One of my friends in UPenn Law school told me it offers only one LLM to transfer to JD per year...and as you can imagine, the competition is very severe!
That's what I know at present...Thanks

Hi everyone.

I'll be starting the Trade Regulation LLM at NYU in the fall. I just wanted to clarify the issue about required courses you need to take if you want to take the NY bar exam after your LLM.

From the registration packet we got via email (it was a PDF file in the emai) from NYU, it says that the New York State bar rules require foreign-trained law students to take 2 basic American law courses in order to sit for the New York bar exam. The 2 courses must be on 2 different bar topics.

There are many classes at NYU which meet these requirements -- too many to list here. But in the same packet there are the bar topics listed and then underneath each topic, courses at NYU which satisfy the topic.

New York Bar topics listed on that sheet include: 1) Business relationships and/or UCC; 2) Conflict of Law; 3) Constitutional Law (NY and Federal); 4) Contracts; 5) Criminal Law and Procedure; 6) Evidence; 7) Family Law; 8) Federal Income and Estate Taxation; 8) New York and Civil Jurisidction and Procedure; 9) Professional Responsibility; 10) Real Property; 11) Torts; 12) Trusts, Wills & Estates

From the long list of courses at NYU that satisfy these topics, it looks like any foreign trained person doing a LLM at NYU can take the 2 required courses easily to sit for the NY bar exam.

Also, foreign trained lawyers may take the California bar exam. To do so, you must 1) file a certificate of good standing in a jurisdiction outside of the United States and 2) file a moral character application and 3) sit for the 3 day general California bar examination.

Thanks Sophia and Rita, excellent info! I'm glad we got that cleared up about sitting for the NY bar. By the way, as someone who is licensed in California, it is NOT that difficult of an exam, so dont let the 3 day or failure rate scare you. It is only 3 days because it has a "practical"/"real life" portion, which, when I took the exam (August 2000), consisted of 2 long essay questions where you are given 50 pages of statutes and cases, along with a 2-3 page factual hypothetical, and asked to write a memorandum. You have 4 hours to do each. If your English is not that strong, though, it will be a problem (although, so will the LLM for that matter).

HYUGO -- I know of people who have mutiple LLMs from different schools, so I dont think its a problem. Most schools have different specialties, so for instance it would not be unwise to get a Cororate LLM at Columbia and a Tax LLM at NYU (why you would want to do so is another matter). Check with any individual school that you like.

LEGALDOCS -- as far as getting as sitting for the NY bar if you are planning on staying in Russia. Don't really know how much benefit it will give you, except that you will be able to "practice law" in NYC, which may allow you to do certain things for clients who are in NYC or who have offices in NYC or assets in NYC. The "practice of law" is broadly defined
and not entirely obvious. In California, it is defined by statute, and you do not necessarily have to be in California to be "practicing law" as defined by the statute. Accordingly, being licensed in NY may allow you to do things for clients which you technically could not do otherwise (but whether/how the State Bar of NY would enforce this against a Russian lawyer, I'm not really sure). Also, if you DID plan on working in the US in a couple of years, it would be one less hurdle.

Hi again!

Just to clarify about the CA bar exam. It is 3 days long. The first morning you get 3 essays questions on substantive legal topics. You get 3 hours to complete the 3 essays. This does not mean they only test on 3 areas of law. Many times the questions are combos -- such as a question which involves both evidence AND criminal law, etc.

Then you have a lunch break for 1 hour. Then you have 3 hours to respond to the practical "performance test" question, which, like Sam explained, gives you either many cases to read or statutes (or both) and some sort of practical exercise to do. Sometimes it is simply writing a legal memorandum to another attorney, sometimes it is writing a memo to a court, but in the past it has also been more complex like drafting interrogatories or deposition questions.

Then the second day you've got the multiple choice part of the exam. You have 3 hours to answer 100 multiple choice questions. These are very difficult and tricky -- many are written purposely to elicit the wrong answer. Then you have a 1 hour break for lunch again. Then after lunch you get 3 hours to answer another 100 multiple choice questions.

Then on the third day, it's the same as the first. Morning gives you 3 hours to answer 3 essay questions, then 1 hour lunch break. Then you have 3 hours for the second performance test (you took the first performance test during the afternoon of day 1).

I took and passed the CA bar in July 2004. It is a very intimidating exam, but it IS passable if you study extremely hard and learn how to take the exam successfully. I cannot stress that enough. You must not only study to memorize the law, but you must study to pass the exam -- which means doing many practice essays and simulating the exam in near-correct exam conditions in terms of timing, etc.

When I took the exam, only 48.2% of all takers passed. 16.6% of repeaters passed. And 68.2% % of first time takers passed.

If you are a foreign trained lawyer and meet the other requirements to take the California bar exam (you must provide proof that you are admitted in your jurisdiction outside the U.S., you must pass the ethical exam (MPRE) and you must apply for and pass the moral character examination which is a background check basically), you must take the GENERAL bar exam (which is the entire 3 day exam). Only US trained lawyers who have been practicing in another US state for at least 5 years are allowed to take the Attorney bar exam which is only 2 days (those attorneys do not have to take the multiple choice part because they took it presumably in their other state of admittance).

Hi there,
would you please recommend some prestigious NYUprofessors specalized in Corp, Tax or Trade Law who will give courses to LLM during 2005-2006. I need to make the lottery this week. Thank you very much for your help and look forward to meeing you in NYU.

Hello Sam.My name is Anna Galstyan.I've come from Armenia 9 months ago and now I'm a permanent resident of USA(California). I have already had my diploma evaluated, and obtained US equivalent of Bachelor of arts in Legal Studies.Now I want to enter any law school, but I'm thiniking of LLM program as well.But as a matter of fact I'm not sure if I'll be entitled to practice law in California.Please give me a hand somehow with this issue, I would be very grateful to you.Thank you!!!

Sincerely,
Anna:))))

yl569 -- I specialize in Antitrust, so dont know too many professors in other areas. I have heard that KATZ is very good (Mergers & Acquisitions), so good in fact, that they had to have a special lottery just for his class last year. WEILER is supposed to be great for International, but dont think he does trade. TAX, have no idea. YET, you have come to the right school.. NYU is the BEST school hands down for tax, better than Harvard, Yale, Stanford or Columbia. You cant go wrong. We offer at least 6 tax classes a semester -- some very specialized, so you will not have a problem

Anna: Check with the state bar of california. www.calbar.org. If your degee has been given the equivalent of a B.A., then hopefully all you will need is to take teh LSAT and TOEFl and can apply for a JD, and maybe a LLM (not really sure). I dont know what agency/school certified your diploma as equivalent to a BA. What's interesting is that it was certified as a B.A. in legal studies and NOT an LLB -- thus possibly making you ineligible for an LLM. (You would then have to get a JD). California has TONS of schools, so good luck!! UC Berkeley is a great one (of course Stanford), but UC Davis, Hastings, and USC are excellent. Good luck!

sam

Hello Sam.My name is Anna Galstyan.I've come from Armenia 9 months ago and now I'm a permanent resident of USA(California). I have already had my diploma evaluated, and obtained US equivalent of Bachelor of arts in Legal Studies.Now I want to enter any law school, but I'm thiniking of LLM program as well.But as a matter of fact I'm not sure if I'll be entitled to practice law in California.Please give me a hand somehow with this issue, I would be very grateful to you.Thank you!!!

Sincerely,
Anna:))))