Hello everyone.

I have been lookin for rankings of LLM programs for some time now, but I can't find anything recent. So I ask you for your help and/or advice.

How would you rank the following universities :

- NYU
- Columbia
- Cornell
- Georgetown
- Harvard
- UPenn
- U of Michigan
- Northwestern
- U of Chicago

I already have acceptance letters from Chicago and UPenn, and it's about time to start thinking about making a choice...

I appreciate your help!

Between UPenn and Chicago, I believe UPenn offers a better program for foreign attorneys. If you work internationally, the Wharton business school and âIvy Leagueâ brands carry a lot of weight and prestige. Furthermore, if you choose to work in the United-States following your program, almost all of Pennâs grads work in NY and therefore have an exceptional alumni base there. Given these two choices, I would only pick Chicago if you are looking towards a career in teaching.

What about the others? I really need to get some input about those nine universities, compared to each other.. A ranking with an explanation of it.

My guess (because I cannot right now do anything better than that) would be :

1. Columbia or Harvard (difficult choice between the best legal education and the most well-known university)
3. NYU
4. UPenn
5. U of Chicago
6. Cornell
7. Georgetown
8. Northwestern
9. U of Michigan

But that's only a guess...

Hey Dr.
it seems to me that you are to focused on Rankings.
Pick some of the top 20 and then study the universities. The answer is always very personal. It depends on your interests. First: teaching career or not. Want to specialize in something? Wanna do clinics? Do you want to join a business oriented law firm, another firm or a NGO. Where do you wanna work afterwards, US or not. Do you wanna spent 9 months in a huge brain factory or should it be smaller and more personal? Is open door policy important for you? Wanna writie a thesis and use it for an S.J.D afterwards? Is the town and Campus importent for you and the weather? Alumni important? etc.
But one thing is for sure: Georgetown is far under (lost a lot of credit in the last years for int. applicants) and they advertise like crazy in europe to get some students and especially some fees.
Make your choice by yourself and do not overestimate these rankings.

Well, thank you for your advice, but I think there's some kind of misunderstanding. I actually do not want an actual ranking. I would like people to give me advice like yours about Georgetown. In the end, this will have an impact on the "objective" ranking I can give to the university. After that, I will have to make some "subjective" adjustments.

My future plans should be something like this :
LLM -> not work in the US afterwards -> back to Europe, work for 2 years in a Business Law firm -> Bar exam -> don't know yet
I would also like to start publishing in private international law subjects during those 2 years, and maybe serve as an Assistant Lecturer. I am not sure about that yet, it will probably depend on professional opportunities. Law teaching is certainly something I am attracted to, but I first want to do the bar exam..

I don't care too much about wheather, and I don't really have a preference in terms of big city or small town. NY is certainly cool, Boston is apparently beautiful, but I suppose every city has its own charm.

I actually most care about the quality of the faculty and of the student body. There are other factors, but I do not know all of them right now :-)

I couldn't agree with you more, Luke!

The rankings are always a good point to start and get a first impression about a school's reputation overall, which is important, but should not be the only factor in your decision. I also get the feeling that -while the difference in reputation between top ten and top twenty can be huge- amongst the top ten schools it is mostly minimal (maybe with the exception of Harvard and Yale, but I think that even that might be overrated).
From my understanding, other than Georgetown all the schools on your list, Dr., are definately top ten, so I would base my decision on other factors such as those set forth in Luke's post.

Ooops,
I guess, I had the same misunderstanding. I hadn't read your last post yet...

Hmm, I know you're right. But it's still difficult.

I'm sure I don't want to write a thesis.

The university should be strong in international law (area in which I will choose most courses), as well as in antitrust, IP and arbitration (specific courses I'd like to attend).

I prefer a smaller program, because I think you get to know people better and you have better contact to faculty members.

Other preference : I read in one of the posts that Chicago is where fun goes to die (can't remember where that was). That's for sure not what I'm looking for.

I don't care much about wheather (except maybe early March snowstorms in Chicago..).

The Law School should also have an important alumni network.

What else..?

I will work in an international firm in Europe, mainly dealing with business transactions, banking and finance law, and IP.

Finally, as I am interested in a "part-time" teaching career (i.e. working as a lawyer and teaching part-time), there should be some opportunities in that direction too (e.g. Columbia offers a specific course for prospective law teachers).

Let's say that's all my criteria (I cannot think about anything else right now). I do not have the necessary insight to know what university offers some or all of these advantages. Could you help me out, now that you know my criteria?

Sorry Jekyll,
but I just try to sound smart by giving general advice. I don't actually know a lot about individual schools at all. I know that UMichigan has a small LL.M. program (40 students) and I seriously considered them, until I learned that they would not offer any courses in my field. They seem to have a pretty good alumni network as well.
When it comes to reputation is Europe, Harvard and the NY schools might be more known over here, for what it's worth. I don't know, if that is important to you.
And this is about all, I can tell you.

Chicagoâs reputation as a « place where fun comes to die » is deserved. Professors are extremely demanding and the students are very competitive. Most students at UChicago do very little except study. If you donât find this appealing, then Chicago may not be for you. Also, it is important to note that the program is quite small (I think they have 180 JD students each year), meaning that specific classes are only given once every two years. If you go to Chicago, you have to make sure that the classes you want are given in the year that you will be attending. Less students also means a smaller alumni network.

On the flip side, if you love extreme rigor, mental gymnastics, and if you thrive under pressure, then UChicago should be at the top of your list.

bonobo, I love your posts!

Could you please give me advice about how the above-mentioned Law Schools would be "suitable", on the basis of the following criteria:

I'm sure I don't want to write a thesis.

The university should be strong in international law (area in which I will choose most courses), as well as in antitrust, IP and arbitration (specific courses I'd like to attend).

I prefer a smaller program, because I think you get to know people better and you have better contact to faculty members.

Other preference : I read in one of the posts that Chicago is where fun goes to die (can't remember where that was). That's for sure not what I'm looking for.

I don't care much about wheather (except maybe early March snowstorms in Chicago..).

The Law School should also have an important alumni network.

What else..?

I will work in an international firm in Europe, mainly dealing with business transactions, banking and finance law, and IP.

Finally, as I am interested in a "part-time" teaching career (i.e. working as a lawyer and teaching part-time), there should be some opportunities in that direction too (e.g. Columbia offers a specific course for prospective law teachers).

Let's say that's all my criteria (I cannot think about anything else right now). I do not have the necessary insight to know what university offers some or all of these advantages. Could you help me out, now that you know my criteria?

A link about rankings: it's a study about employment opportunities after graduating from US law schools. It's rather complicated and I must confess that the only thing I retained from it is that no rankings should be trusted (in particular, US News) when it comes to employment after graduation, because of the insufficient data released by the universities etc. etc. But maybe smb would find it interesting:
http://www.autoadmit.com/studies/ciolli/draft11.pdf

Hello,

If I refer to your criteria, I think that Columbia would be a good choice for you. They have good Professors in international private law, IP and arbitration, a good network of alumni (at least here in Switzerland, a lot of people go to Columbia). I must confess I don't know about antitrust.

People that I know who went there were all very satisfied (which was not the case for instance in Harvard where there is a lot of competition between americans and foreigners...pity...).

I agree with the precedents posts. UChicago is said to be a very tough law school. It is actually one of the only ones where you can fail your LLM...

Hello Dr Jekyll...

since Dr Jekyll was a Scotsman, why not take into consideration some universities in good old Europe? I think Aberdeen has a very interesting programme on international law, and Edinburgh certainly is a great university. Though you'd have to write a thesis there. But how about King's College London? You don't have to do a thesis at King's if you want to take courses only. They offer courses on literally everything, including arbitration and the like.
I understand you're from Europe, so you would only have to pay home/EU fees, which is another advantage.

Good luck,
Nicky

What you all think about UPenn, Virginia and Northwestern?
I have been accepted at them I am not sure which one would fit my profile. I am legal aid lawyer and human rights lawyer..

thank you

Nicky,

It's funny you mention Aberdeen, because I've already been studying there for one semester. But I've seen enough of Scotland now (this is not meant to be negative, I've really been travelling a lot and it's beautiful), and I'd really like to go to the USA. So...

What about the others? I really need to get some input about those nine universities, compared to each other.. A ranking with an explanation of it.

My guess (because I cannot right now do anything better than that) would be :

1. Columbia or Harvard (difficult choice between the best legal education and the most well-known university)
3. NYU
4. UPenn
5. U of Chicago
6. Cornell
7. Georgetown
8. Northwestern
9. U of Michigan

But that's only a guess...